Author Topic: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.  (Read 21145 times)

Zach

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Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« on: December 27, 2010, 09:54:27 PM »
Im not sure If this has already been posted but I found it the other day and spent some time reading it  :)
Full credit to http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org for hosting .  :)
http://www.wisdombuddhadorjeshugden.org/speechnaumannfoundation.pdf

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Friedrich-Naumann-Foundation
Hamburg, on March 26th 1999
Dalai Lama
Dorje Shugden

by Helmut Gassner
Letzehof
6800 Feldkirch, Austria
EMAIL: [email protected]
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How a runaway Austrian gets to meet the Dalai Lama is a story most of us probably know from the
wonderful account of "Seven Years in Tibet." But how a run-of-the-mill Austrian like myself got to meet
the Dalai Lama is no doubt a tale of considerable less fascination. While I was studying electrical
engineering at the Federal Institute of Technology in Zürich, I was introduced to a lady who had known
Tibetan Lamas in India in the 1960's. She spoke of Lama Thubten Yeshe and Zopa Rinpoche time and
again as well as of their teacher, Venerable Geshe Rabten, who was able to explain Buddhism with
unequalled clarity and forcefulness and who really understood Westerners and their ideas.
After Geshe Rabten escaped from Tibet, the Dalai Lama chose him and Lati Rinpoche from among a select
group of candidates to become one of his advisers on philosophical issues. Upon the Dalai Lama's express
wish, Geshe came to Switzerland as Abbot of Rikon Monastery, near Winterthur. After I graduated from
the Institute of Technology, I moved to Rikon to learn Tibetan and to study Buddhist philosophy, debate
and meditation under Geshe's guidance. In 1978, Geshe Rabten was invited by a group of Geshe Zopa, a
Tibetan who teaches at the University of Wisconsin at Madison, and to my great joy, I was allowed to
accompany Geshe. At that conference there was another most impressive Lama from India, Zong
Rinpoche, also giving teachings and initiations. It was from him I received, together with two other
people, Dorje Shugden empowerment. I had never heard of Dorje Shugden before, even though I was
studying Buddhism intensively and making good progress with my Tibetan. After the empowerment,
Geshe gave us some words of advice. He said, "This manifestation of the Buddha has no equal. If you are
determined to tame your mind, then he will even give you his heart in order to help you."
Geshe extended an invitation to His Holiness the Dalai Lama to come to Switzerland in the summer of
1979 to give teachings at his center in Mt. Pèlerin overlooking lake Geneva. We students helped prepare
this event which about one thousand people attended. These were the first public teachings His Holiness
gave to a large audience in the West.

It was also the first time that I was asked to be a relay interpreter from English to German for His Holiness.
Scared by the importance of the task, I remembered Geshe's words after the empowerment in the U.S. and
the lines of praise among the prayers to Dorje Shugden, "by merely remembering you, all outer and inner
obstacles are cleared...... I offer praise to you, guardian of the Buddha Dharma." Receiving all the help I
had wished for, I managed to convey the Dalai Lama's impressive address without too many distortions.
In 1980, Lama Yeshe, a well known disciple of Geshe Rabten's extended further invitations to His
Holiness, which caused to make the Dalai Lama more widely known in the West. In 1981, His Holiness
was invited to Hamburg by Geshe Thubten Ngawang, also one of Geshe Rabten's disciples. It was the first
time I interpreted directly from Tibetan into German.

During those years I frequently accompanied Geshe on his trips and had the opportunity to meet many
important personages, among them Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, the Junior Tutor of His Holiness the Dalai
Lama. Trijang Rinpoche was in many ways one of the most important figures of his time. In the fifties he
was the power behind His Holiness, a pillar of strength in the difficult and troubled times for the Tibetan
people. This fact was well known to the Communist Chinese and so Trijang Lobsang Yeshe became their
main enemy. It was also Trijang Rinpoche who taught His Holiness the Dalai Lama the concepts of
Buddhism as well as the understanding of politics and mastering social skills. I also had the opportunity to
meet Kyabje Ling Rinpoche, His Holiness' Senior Tutor, and served as his driver. These two Tutors of His
Holiness were direct disciples of the great Pabongka Dechen Nyingbo. It is said that when Pabongka
Rinpoche gave Dharma discourses many in the audience gained profound insights into the failings of our
worldly concerns to develop the lasting determination to exchange the constant quest for honor, praise,
well-being and gain with sincere aspiration, kindness and concern for others. This unusual ability to teach
is not an integral part of Tibetan culture. It is rather at the heart of the living transmission of the teachings
of the historical Buddha from one great master to the next. It is, first and foremost, an oral transmission:
the master teaches his gifted disciple continuously until the transmitted knowledge becomes the student's
second nature.

This is the significance of the four main schools of Tibetan Buddhism. When we speak of Sakya, Gelug,
Kagyu, Nyingma, we refer to four different lines of this kind of transmission of the Buddha Dharma. Such
a school is considered "alive" when the knowledge is vast and there still exist masters who have fully
realized such knowledge and are able to transmit it faultlessly, based on their own experience.
The great master Pabongka was in the first half of the twentieth century the pivotal or key lineage holder of
the Oral Geden Tradition. Many other teachers before him mastered certain aspects of the tradition's
teachings, but it was Pabongka Rinpoche's particular merit to locate and find all these partial
transmissions, to learn and realize them, and bring them together once again to pass them on through a
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single person. In his lifetime there was hardly a significant figure of the Geden tradition who had not been
Pabongka Rinpoche's disciple. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche was the one capable of receiving and passing on
the entirety of the Oral Geden Tradition once again. The Dorje Shugden practice is an integral part of that
tradition.
Another, particularly impressive figure of old Tibet was the Dalai Lama's Chamberlain, Kungo Phala,
whom you may vividly remember seeing in the movie Kundun. He was a guest in my home in Feldkirch
on several occasions. It was he who in 1959 organized His Holiness' escape from the Norbulingka summer
palace. He sometimes spoke to me about it, perhaps because he was pleased with the progress I was
making in my Tibetan language studies. The preparations for the escape were made in absolute secrecy
and strictly followed instructions received from Dorje Shugden. I asked him what thoughts were on his
mind when he had to make his way through the crowds surrounding the Norbulingka with the Dalai Lama,
disguised as a servant, just behind him. He said that everything happened exactly as the Dorje Shugden
oracle from Panglung Monastery had predicted. (Panglung Rinpoche now lives in Munich.) In
particularly dangerous situations, he felt he was moving within a protected space, his feet seemingly not
even touching the ground. I later heard many more accounts about the escape from other people who were
personally involved in it, like Trijang Rinpoche's attendants and monks of Pomra Khamtsen of Sera Mey
Monastery, who had been chosen as the Dalai Lama's personal bodyguards.
Today, in the Dalai Lama's biography we read that Nechung, the State Oracle while in trance traced the
entire escape route from the gates of the Norbulingka to the final destination in India. I heard from those
who actually organized the flight that, at the time, the State Oracle's predictions were treated with greatest
caution. The Nechung Oracle has a large entourage of monks and so it was feared that the oracle's
predictions might reach Chinese ears. The only predictions that were repeatedly mentioned were the State
Oracle's calls for "The Lord of the Land of Snow to stay in the land." Among the officials who helped in
the planning of the escape were some who wanted to bring only His Holiness to safety, leaving his family
behind. It was thanks to the Chamberlain Phala's decisive intervention that the Dalai Lama's entire family
made it into exile.

In 1983 His Holiness accepted yet another invitation from Geshe Rabten Rinpoche, this time to come to
Feldkirch in Austria. His Holiness and his entourage stayed for three days in my parents' former summer
residence and gave a profoundly moving presentation in the city's town hall. This time, the audience easily
exceeded a thousand people.
The Austrian authorities had provided the Dalai Lama with a police escort that accompanied him during
the duration of his stay. But once he crossed the border into Switzerland, the escort disappeared to the
visible annoyance of His Holiness' entourage. He himself seemed delighted with his newly gained
freedom of movement. Since I was driving his car, he asked me if I knew of any near-by inn. So I took
the entire group to a café on the shores of Lake Constance where the Dalai Lama rested happily for one
hour without further protocol and for once, without it all having been planned in advance.
In 1985, His Holiness gave the Kalachakra initiation in Rikon and I was asked to be his driver and
interpreter. In 1986, His Holiness participated in a seminar on time and space held in Garmisch. It was
here that the first private conversations with Professor Weizsäcker, the brother of Germany's President at
that time, took place which, as a technician, I found particularly exciting to interpret. A trip to Vienna
followed, only that this time the visit nearly did not take place. The Chamber of Industry had extended an
invitation but His Holiness' representatives in Europe apparently considered it to be unimportant.
Although it was pointed out to them several times that this was a weighty organization with close links to
the government, the Office of Tibet remained hesitant. They were finally convinced when a determined
lady from Munich traveled to Dharamsala, obtained an audience with the Dalai Lama and told him that his
people were deceiving him. Finally, the visit took place and became a great success: receptions by
Austrian President Kirchschläger and future Foreign Minister Mock, a talk at the Forum Schwarzenberg in
the presence of Vienna's high society and with the attendance of future President Waldheim and last, but
not least, a broadcast of the entire talk by Austria's Broadcasting Corporation that same evening. This
occasion gave His Holiness the visibility and exposure that Tibetans always wished he had and which was
so difficult for them to arrange.

In 1988, His Holiness addressed the Swiss parliament in Bern and gave several talks in Geneva. Once
more, I was his designated driver and interpreter. While in Geneva, His Holiness stayed at the same hotel
where Empress Sissi of Autria stayed at the time. Drivers had been assigned cheaper lodgings and sine I
was listed as a driver, no reservation had been made for me at His Holiness' hotel. But a personal
interpreter was expected to be available at any time and so I took a room there at my own expense. The
Dalai Lama's Private Secretary became visibly angry when he found out about it. Obviously, a personal
initiative of this kind, even one I had payed for myself, was not welcome.
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During the presentations for His Holiness' next visit the following spring (1989) it became even more
evident that someone was profoundly annoyed with me. The organizers of the visit had requested me
repeatedly to interpret for them, not so the Office of Tibet. The official request from His Holiness'
representative came only a few days before the beginning of the tour. I felt insecure and feared a
reprimand of some sort. But His Holiness was cordial and during our last private audience at the end of
the trip he embraced me for a long while, something he had never done before. Only later did I learn that
on certain occasions, His Holiness had treated many Tibetan masters and monks as well as Westerners
with similar special expressions of affection. It is easy to become deeply moved and emotional and at that
moment willing to do anything for the Dalai Lama. In situations such as these, many promised the Dalai
Lama to turn away from Dorje Shugden, a promise they often deeply regretted later on. In view of this
incident, whenever I was asked in subsequent years to interpret for His Holiness, I tried to keep my
distance. As the end of a tour approached and the program showed that my services were not longer
needed, I would quietly slip away so as not to be present for a closing audience with His Holiness.
In previous years I had occasionally heard something about the Dalai Lama's strange statements
concerning Dorje Shugden, but they remained inexplicable to me and so I brushed them aside as false
rumors. And I had good reasons to do so. Dorje Shugden had advised the Thirteenth Dalai lama to
renovate the eastern and western stupas. Following this advice, the Thirteenth Dalai Lama undertook
major renovations of the Potala and the stupa of the great master Je Tsong Khapa at Ganden Monastery, as
is mentioned in Purchog Jampa Rinpoche's biography of the Thirteenth Dalai Lama. During his first
escape from Lhasa in 1950/51, the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, while in Yadrung (Tromo) received valuable
advice from Dorje Shugden and was moved to write some beautiful praises to him. His Holiness was
staying at Dungkar Monastery of the famous master Tomo Geshe Rinpoche who lives mostly in the U.S.A.
today. This master's former incarnation was described by Lama Govinda in his book The Way of the White
Clouds. Tomo Geshe Rinpoche is also one of the most prominent masters among those who revere Dorje
Shugden. In 1957, Dorje Shugden recommended that the Tibetan guerrilla establish a military base to the
south of Lhasa. By 1959, it turned out to be the only route that had not fallen to the Chinese. The Dalai
Lama fled along this route. The Dalai Lama's presence in the free world today bears testimony to the
success of this enterprise.

Geshe Rabten Rinpoche is the one person to whom I owe everything meaningful in my life. On many
occasions I was witness to the high esteem His Holiness had for this master. During a meeting at Frankfurt
airport in 1984, His Holiness told a representative of the Indian Embassy referring to Geshe Rabten, "an
excellent master, an excellent teacher, indeed." The members of Geshe's Dharma centers actively
supported the goals of the exile government, not only by extending invitations to His Holiness but also by
participating for many long days in political demonstrations in front of the Chinese headquarters in Geneva
and Bern.
On "Ecumenical Day" (Kirchentag) in 1993 in Germany, His Holiness addressed an audience of close to
ten thousand people. Shortly before the ceremony started, he called me to go over some of his talkingpoints
with me. One of the subjects was north-south politics, the wealth of the countries of the north, the
exploitation of the countries of the south. In earlier times, His Holiness used to draw exclusively on
Buddhist material for his presentations; I was comfortable interpreting him and his listeners were always
deeply impressed. When he began making statements on international politics, interpreting often became a
stressful "high alert" situation in which I would frantically search for non-controversial expressions. So on
that occasion I was not too happy about the north-south subject and in the hope that His holiness might
consider dropping it, I countered that many of the countries in the south were by nature considerably
wealthier in raw materials, multiple crops, and with a milder climate it was easier to survive without
excessive work. In the north, the climate was harsh and one had to work in order to survive. The northsouth
issue was not even mentioned during the main event, but it did come up later in a smaller parallel
meeting and, to my utter disbelief, in a version clearly influenced by the terms of my own counterargument.
Since then, I never again expressed my opinion in His Holiness' presence.
In 1995 I interpreted for His holiness during a series of events organized by the University for Peace in
Berlin. When we said good-bye at the airport, he told me, "I never worry when you are there as my
interpreter." That was unusual. It was the last time I interpreted for him.
In the fall of that same year Kungo Palden, Trijang Rinpoche's life-long attendant and personal assistant
passed away. Both His Holiness' Tutors had passed away already in the eighties, and so had Zong
Rinpoche, Geshe Rabten, and the Chamberlain Phala. Trijang Rinpoche's attendant was the last of the
great personalities of that era of Tibetan history and probably also the last one who might have been able to
stop the events that were to follow.
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In spring of 1996, new stories reached us from India: during the teachings on the occasion of the Tibetan
new year, His Holiness apparently had expressed himself in the strongest terms against the veneration of
Dorje Shugden. The official translation by the Office of Tibet read, "The worship of Dolgyal does great
harm to the cause of Tibet and endangers the life of the Dalai Lama." Anyone familiar with the Tibetan
way of thinking understands this to be a call to mobilize different groups of the population against each
other because for most Tibetans nothing is more important than the Dalai Lama's life; so if one is labeled
an enemy of the Dalai Lama, one is branded as a traitor and therewith "free-for-all" or an outlaw. To a
common Tibetan, the words "the worship of Dolgyal..." etc., mean, in simple terms, "Dorje Shugden is an
evil spirit who wants to do the Dalai Lama in and whose fault it is that Tibet is not yet free."
Dolgyal means "King of Döl" and is a common name for Dorje Shugden. Döl is a region in Tibet closely
intertwined with the origins of Dorje Shugden. Since all other names, like Dorje Shugden, which means
"the one with indestructible power" or Gyalchen, i.e. "great king," point to a very high status, it was easy to
conclude that the use of the name "Dolgyal" was intended to coin a new insult. And that is what happened.
That someone of His Holiness' stature with his background in Buddhist philosophy could have expressed
thoughts such as these was so unimaginable to me that for the longest time I refused to believe the stories
we heard from India. I was convinced that some cunning politicians in the exile government had finally
gone crazy. But no one had gone crazy, quite the contrary. It became clear that the move had been
prepared over decades with very specific appointments to monastic and government positions and
chronologically carefully orchestrated to coincide with the passing away of all the great figures capable of
opposing this move.

In the months that followed, the parliament-in-exile held heated debates on legislative reforms that would
marginalize and exclude the new enemies. Signature campaigns were launched to try and force each and
every individual to publicly declare whether it was for or against the Dalai Lama. Whoever refused to sign
was identified as a traitor. Many described their conflict of conscience in this situation as similar to having
to choose between mother and father, because they did not want to give up neither the Dalai Lama nor
Dorje Shugden.
Whoever sill dared to raise his voice and counter the government-in-exile's justifications with historical
facts, was chased by mobs from his house and home as happened, for example, with the family of the
teacher Thubten.
The vehemence of the language chosen and the harshness of the methods used leads one to conclude that
with this Blitz-attack the government-in-exile intended to eliminate its target group from the visible
surface of society. It did not expect that many of the persons affected would prove so loyal to their
teachers and probably underestimated the willingness of many to stand by the religious convictions of their
fore-fathers to the point of enduring complete social ostracism. Thus the controversy became increasingly
public and needed to be further justified. That, however, proved to be awkward. The first contradictions
arise already with regard to the most fundamental principles of Buddhism according to which all suffering
is understood to be the exclusive result of one's own actions. Unless one creates negative causes, one does
not experience suffering. In this controversy, however, an "evil spirit" gets blamed for the tragedy of
Tibet as indicated by the words, "the worship of Dolgyal harms the cause of Tibet."
Furthermore, there are several hundred protector deities quite similar to Dorje Shugden. Thus in the great
monastic universities, for example, each college has, for historical reasons, its own protector deity and
Dorje Shugden is only one among many. Also, the images of these deities look often so much alike that
not even the Dalai Lama can tell them apart at first glance. In an embarrassing incident at Sera Mey
Monastery, His Holiness got quiet angry at the sight of an image of the protector Thaog, whom he
erroneously mistook for Dorje Shugden.
The statement "the worship of Dolgyal endangers the life of the Dalai Lama," may well be the most
incendiary means to get common Tibetans going, but in the West it is a poor reason to justify the exile
government's questionable conduct. Consequently, that reason has hardly advanced in the West; here His
Holiness insisted instead, "Buddhism is degenerating into spirit worship." Yet the number of oracles and
their invocation has increased considerably in Dharamsala (under the auspices of the Tibetan exile
government) these past years. A new temple was built for Nechung, the State Oracle, and His Holiness
himself composed new prayers to this protective deity. The Dalai Lama's personal monastery Namgyal
spends most its time performing the rituals of numerous other deities of this kind. Only one protector deity
has an entire monastery dedicated to it: Nechung, not Dorje Shugden.
Actually, it is not unusual for great masters to have divergent opinions of guardian deities. Thus, early
masters like Changchub Ö, Gö Lotsawa, and Sakya Pandita considered that certain deities, revered in the
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Nyingma tradition, were not authentic. Even the Kalachakra tantra was not accepted by certain Sakya
masters. During his tenure as disciplinarian of the Lower Tantric College, Trichen Ngawang Chogden,
one of the most famous eighteenth century Gelug Lamas, banned the protectress Palden Lhamo totally
from that monastery after an incident in which monks of the monastery capsized in a ship. Palden Lhamo
is one of the most important protectors of all Dalai Lamas and by extension of the Tibetan government, but
to this day no prayers to this protector are recited in the Lower Tantric College. Since 1996 His Holiness
has cited the names of Trichen Ngawang Chogden and Changya Rölpa'i Dorje as having proscribed Dorje
Shugden. He cites a passage in Changya's biography composed by the master Thuken wherein Trichen
Ngawang Chogden supposedly had an image of Dorje Shugden removed from Ganden Monastery. On
closer scrutiny, however, it appears that in Changya's original rendering of the story about Trichen
Ngawang Chogden, to which Thuken refers, Dorje Shugden is not at all mentioned, while reference is
made to a local spirit instead. Citing this supposed episode of removing a Dorje Shugden image is meant
to justify his defamation, but the episode with Palden Lhamo does not even raise the slightest doubt about
that deity. Thus, yes, there are historical precedents of protective deities having occasionally been banned
from a particular monastery, but what is unusual in this debate over Dorje Shugden is that the personal
opinion of just one master should become official state policy, thus splitting an entire society in times of
greatest hardship.
When offering justifications for the controversy, His Holiness likes to appear as non-sectarian and a unifier
of traditions. In making references to Guru Padmasambhava and the Nyingma tradition he discusses the
Dorje Shugden side as the sectarian one. Dorje Shugden is originally a deity of the Sakya tradition. There
is a belief that no ordinary being ever appears as throne holder of this tradition but rather that all Sakya
Dagchens (Lords) are emanations of the eighty great Siddhas and the sixteen Arhats. The one before the
last Sakya throne holder, Dragshül Trinley Rinchen, was the most prominent Sakya master of this century.
He called his father a manifestation of Avalokiteshvara, the Buddha of compassion, because before his
father was born, his grandfather had received signs that Dorje Shugden himself would come as his son.
The master proves the connection between Dorje Shugden and Avalokiteshvara by citing from the
Nyingma tantra Rinchen Na-Dün, rnying.rgud rin.chen sna.bdun, "Dolgyal, Dolgyal he who is thus called
is by nature undeceiving, because he is the Great Compassionate One himself."
The defamation of Dorje Shugden constitutes a grave offense to the Sakya tradition and surely the Dalai
Lama is aware of it. Thus he mentioned to some people that in his dreams the four-faced deity Mahakala
appears annoyed at the restrictions against Dorje Shugden. Four-faced Mahakala is one of the most
important guardian deities of the Sakya tradition. But the government-in-exile can exert effective
influence neither on the Sakya nor on the Kagyu or Nyingma traditions. Also remarkable is the fact that
the government-in-exile directs its attacks exclusively against the Dorje Shugden worship in the Gelug
tradition. This allows one to conclude that what is at stake here for the driving forces is not the deity but
ultimately the destruction of something else.
The debate went on longer than initially anticipated. The people of the Tibetan regions of Chatreng and
surrounding areas remained loyal to Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden and the affected regional
divisions in the great monasteries (kham.tsen) refused to stray from their tradition. When together they
founded the Dorje Shugden Society in Delhi, many in the Tibetan exile community, who a few months
earlier unconditionally would have done anything for the Dalai Lama, now started having second thoughts.
Both sides of this newly drawn battle line tried to convince the press that they were right. But the field
was far from level: the government-in-exile had been well organized for many years and could underpin its
statements with the Dalai Lama's singular fame and the general sympathy for Tibet. The other side had
little more than a few monks, inexperienced in dealing with the press, trying to argue for religious
freedom.
In the fight to obtain the favors of the press, the government-in-exile aimed at portraying a "Dorje-
Shugden-sect", although the Tibetan language does not even have a word with which to clearly translate
the word "sect." In the past I have often been upset with the distorted accounts of Tibetan history I saw in
Chinese propaganda material. But the arbitrary way in which the Tibetan side in this controversy handled
history was such that one must assume they believe we westerns are all fools. Is Namgyal Monastery a
Nechung sect because they worship the protector Nechung? Is Ganden Shartse Monastery a Setrab sect
because they worship the deity Setrab? Is Ganden Jangtse Monastery a Palden Lhamo sect because they
worship Palden Lhamo? Hardly. By the same token, there is no Dorje Shugden sect. When furthermore
some imaginative historians try to attribute to such a sect socio-political intentions, we can safely relegate
it to the domain of fiction but certainly not to that of historical facts. There has been a focus on Pabongka
Rinpoche as the most important figure in connection with Dorje Shugden during the Thirteenth Dalai
Lama's time. It is historically proven that he was offered the regency and it is historically proven that he
rejected it firmly.
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When during an anti-Dorje Shugden information meeting in Switzerland the Dalai Lama's Private
Secretary sketched the picture of three hundred years of trouble with these Dorje Shugden people,
someone asked him to mention some of the incidents that had occurred during this time. He was unable to
come up with even one. If these Dorje Shugden people really had made so much trouble for three hundred
years, then our friend Michael v. Brück, (a participant in the conference presenting the other side) must
have sensed at least some of it during his meeting with Düldzin Kuten, the central figure in the Dorje
Shugden issue in Ganden Monastery. Instead, we read a heartfelt description which closes with the
following words,
"...the great protector deities manifest thousandfold, simultaneously and everywhere in order to be of help
to all living beings. They also may appear in other countries and to other people in guises different than in
Tibet, yet they are all rooted in the one immeasurable ground of the mind, truly a universe full of grace."
About a year after the conflict broke out the newly constituted opposition had organized and began
consolidating itself. This was contrary to everything the government-in-exile had expected. Then, in the
spring of 1997 a horrifying triple murder in Dharamsala put a different spin on the controversy. The
Director of the Dialectics School in Dharamsala and his two young translators were gruesomely murdered
just a few days before the Tibetan new year. Apparently the three of them had been alone in their room
only about 15 minutes and they were found stabbed without anyone hearing screams or seeing killers. The
Director of the Dialectics School was well known for his slanderous writings in which he would drag
through the mud anything that veered even slightly from the course established by the government-inexile:
famous masters, the big monastic universities and even the Tibetan guerilla were his targets. In one
of his last articles he wrote, "...these people will not cease to criticize the Dalai Lama until blood flows
from their bodies...."
Given the character of the assassination and the humiliations the Tibetan guerilla movement had been
subjected to in earlier years, one could have assumed that the search for the murderer would eventually
also lead to them. But that obviously did not occur; already the next day, Dharamsala's local newspaper
claimed that the murderer would certainly be found among the Dorje Shugden Society in Delhi. Aside
from who committed the murders, this gruesome act was exploited to the hilt by the government-in-exile
with only one aim in mind: Resorting to all possible means they tried to incriminate the Dorje Shugden
Society in Delhi in order to put its leading monks behind Indian bars. For the benefit of the press, the
image of a Dorje Shugden sect with bloodthirsty, cultish, terrorist and fundamentalist attributes was
successfully established linking it effectively with the traditionally depicted wrathful appearance of the
deity while cleverly neglecting to mention that many wrathful Buddhist deities are represented in
considerably more terrifying ways.
For his part, Robert Thurman thought it appropriate to portray for Newsweek magazine a murderous Dorje
Shugden cult describing it as "the Taliban of Buddhism." Yet Robert Thurman, presumably before he
begot Uma, had been one of the first Western monks with Buddhist vows and had tried twice to obtain
Dorje Shugden initiation from revered masters well before the controversy began. Both masters, however,
had refused on grounds of his fickle character. Thurman should know quite well what Dorje Shugden
actually is about.

On a Swiss TV program discussing the subject of the murders I than had the opportunity to admire my old
friend, the government-in-exile minister Tashi Wangdu, exhibiting evidence in front of the camera.
According to the commentator it was a death threat sent by Dorje Shugden followers to the murder victim.
I could not resist stopping the video to copy the Tibetan text and translate it. It contained no death threat at
all, simply an impertinent letter containing a challenge to debate the issue so as to settle the difference.
By now I was convinced that something foul was going on. Otherwise, why would Tashi Wangdu go to
such lengths as to show a fake death threat on TV? I wanted to find out whether in Tibet's political history
there had been other instances of similar behavior. I did not have to look very far to realize that this was a
way customarily used in old Tibet to neutralize an opponent. In the recent past in exile alone, one can find
several incidents in which people accused of criticizing the Dalai Lama had to leave India after being
socially ostracized or nearly beaten to death by a mob. There are parallels in old Tibet.
After the Thirteenth Dalai Lama passed away, Lungshar tried to establish a constitutional monarchy in
Tibet. He was charged with involvement in a Bolshevist conspiracy and to be executed while his sons
were to have their hands cut off. Pabongka Rinpoche interceded and then he was pardoned. Nonetheless,
some time later, Lungshar's eyes were gouged out. Demo Rinpoche, the regent during the days of the
Thirteenth Dalai Lama's youth and his friend Nyagtul, a Nyingma master, were accused of resorting to
black magic against the Thirteenth Dalai Lama. Demo Rinpoche died in a prison cell so small, one could
not lie down in it. Nyagtul had the skin torn from his chest, the chest ripped open while still alive, and tied
8
to a post on the circular path for circumambulating Lhasa, he was left there exposed to people's mockery
and to die a slow excruciating death. Close to the end, Nyagtul is said to have uttered, "This government
has killed me although I am free from guilt. I shall take my revenge on it, just wait and see!" Thus arose
the belief that occasionally, during the invocations of the State Oracle, Nygtul's spirit enters the oracle's
body instead of the deity Nechung to give the government disastrous advice. The story is still very much
alive today. There are important people nowadays among Tibetans who associate the State Oracle's
repeated fateful pronouncements also at the origin of the Dorje Shugden defamation with Nyagtul's tragic
assassination.
In spite of it all, I still have difficulties believing the events of these past three years. How such things can
happen in connection with such an outstanding figure as the Dalai Lama remains a mystery. But then, one
does not want to leave it at that. A closer look at His Holiness' lifestyle might provide some answers.
His Holiness never travels alone and never incognito. Wherever he goes, someone will have been there
before him to prepare his arrival. For almost all of his information he depends on the press and those who
surround him. The international press seldom reports on events concerning the Tibetan exile community
and the Tibetan exile community has no free press of its own. Their publications take their cue from the
official positions or opinions of the government-in-exile. The Dalai Lama can only draw on information
provided by his immediate entourage or outside visitors to get a sense of what is going on among his
people. Now, someone who succeeds in controlling the Dalai Lama's entourage will also control the Dalai
Lama in more far-reaching ways. During the years I interpreted for His Holiness, I was time and again
surprised to see how the strong personalities in his entourage became fewer with each passing year and
were replaced by less impressive characters. It also is common knowledge that members of the Dalai
Lama's family have great influence on the composition of his entourage.
After the controversy erupted in the spring of 1996 as a result of His Holiness' statements, the
representatives of the people of Chatreng sent him petitions on two separate occasions. When these
remained unanswered and the abbots of the main monasteries became concerned with the turn of recent
events they requested an audience. When in the Dalai Lama's ante-room they were asked what they
intended to submit. When they presented their petitions, they were told not to show the letters to His
Holiness. The Dorje Shugden Society in Delhi was formed after similar petitions remained without
response.
Considering who would benefit most from this unfortunate controversy, the obvious answer is Communist
China. It would be difficult to see how they could have influenced events so close to the Dalai Lama were
it not for the suspicion of possibly working through fake oracles. As a matter of fact, there are in
Dharamsala two new oracles who recently arrived from Tibet whose background could give rise to such
thoughts. However, closer at hand, the traditional Tibetan State Oracle has been consumed by jealousy
against Dorje Shugden for generations. It would have been the State Oracle's duty to offer the Dalai Lama
help during the critical events of 1959. According to all trustworthy eye-witnesses I know and consulted,
the State Oracle did not provide any help on that occasion. After the Dalai Lama and his retinue had fled,
the State Oracle only found out the following day that he had been left behind. His own escape was later
organized by monks from Drepung Monastery. Once in exile, his role lost prominence until the early
1970's, when that oracle started to quietly persuade the Dalai Lama that he should take his distance from
Dorje Shugden. In other words, the origin of Dorje Shugden's current level of defamation is not the Dalai
Lama's own idea but rather the State Oracle's, who in his prophesies over the following twenty-five years
made Dorje Shugden responsible for all the tragedies that befell Tibet and the Tibetans.
Another crucial question to ask is what is directly attacked and destroyed by this conflict. In Buddhism, a
living transmission depends on the existence of great masters able to pass on this knowledge on the basis
of their own experience. Like highway bridges, the masters Pabongka and Trijang Rinpoches carried these
experiences of the Gelug tradition from the past into the present in perfected form. Next to these two large
bridges are only some narrow hanging bridges which pass on aspects or parts of this experience to this day.
Dorje Shugden was the protector of these two great masters who also composed significant meditations on
Dorje Shugden just as the masters Trichen Tenpa Rabgye, Tagri Gyatso Thaye, Serkong Dorje Chang,
Dagpo Kelsang Khedrup and many others had done before them. Were we to accept that Dorje Shugden is
not an authentic deity but a Chinese ghost, as we keep hearing from the State Oracle, then a Buddhist
practitioner must conclude that none of the masters of this transmission lineage is authentic. All these
great bridges thanks to which the meditations of the Gelug tradition were passed on to this day would
thereby be destroyed. All that remained would be the academic studies in the monastic universities and
many of the important transmissions for the actual practice would be lost. The Gelug tradition would be
gutted.
9
In whose interest would it be to weaken the Gelug tradition? Here too, there are old rivalries and also
people known to have such ambitions in close proximity to the Dalai Lama. If we add to all of this the
Dalai Lama's open and unsuspecting nature, it is easy to see how His Holiness constitutes a unique
instrument for some individuals to realize their cheap, personal goals at the expense of an entire society.
These thoughts may have provided answers to only some of the questions. I do hope that your own
analyses will shed more light on this whole affair. It is after all your reporting which keeps a Western
democracy on track and I think you can render the same service to the Tibetan people.
When you meet His Holiness, let him know that we do not wish for a controversial politician man from
Asia, but that we love the wise monk from the Himalayas who so effectively inspires his people to uphold
the exemplary attitude for which Tibetans are so much cherished the world over. And try to assess how
much he knows about controversial publications concerning Tibet. That will allow you to determine how
reliably his assistants actually inform him.
It is my sincere hope that Tibetans will soon be free and able to live in harmony in their own land and
continue to be our cherished friends.

An Open Letter to Mr. Kelsang Gyaltsen
Secretary of H.H. Dalai Lama
Dear Kelsang Gyaltsen,
Please excuse me for writing this open letter. In your recent written response to the
president of the Rabten Choeling association you mentioned my name in connection with
"various TV and Radio programmes and press conference in Germany, Switzerland, United
States and Austria which were designed to discredit His Holiness the Dalai Lama, the Tibetan
Government-in-exile, to disrupt the Tibetan community and to undermine the Tibetan cause.
There is no denying of this fact," and that there are people, who strongly believe that I am
"one of the driving forces behind these programmes".
Dear Kelsang, you have not forgotten that on many gracious visits of His Holiness to
Germany, Austria and Switzerland we have worked together as friends? Have you forgotten
that since 1979 I have made every effort to put His Holiness' message on universal
responsibility and harmony into befitting German words, deeply wishing for the audience
to feel the same love and unity that always grasped my heart when hearing these words of
H.H. Dalai Lama?
Do you really think that I could make any effort to discredit His Holiness the Dalai Lama or to
disrupt the Tibetan community, after I have devoted my complete heritage and income to
sustain Buddhist studies and practice in India and Europe? In all the years we worked
together, you could have noticed that my thoughts and efforts always remained the same
from year to year, and I can assure you, my gratitude to the Tibetan people and its great
Buddhist masters has only increased during the past twenty years.
Through several of my friends I got to understand that you may consider myself as the
very driving force behind the Swiss TV's report on the Dorje Shugden issue. If you really
think so, then you have never had any direct and open conversation with Mr. Regli, the
author of this report. As you certainly remember, I have repeatedly translated spoken
Tibetan for the Swiss TV during the past twenty years. Besides other engagements for
H.H. Dalai Lama, I translated for a chronicle about Ven. Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche in
1996. This chronicle was done by Mr. Regli, who is one of the most experienced
journalists of DRS and has a very good knowledge of the various inclinations as well as
political habits of Asian people. During the work for the chronicle he seemed impressed
by the young Trijang Rinpoche and also mentioned his esteem for H.H. Dalai Lama.
In April 1997, a Newsweek article on the dreadful murder of Ven. Lobsang Gyatso brought
the Dorje Shugden issue to an international public. In the months to follow I repeatedly
received calls from journalists, who knew me as 'interpreter of H.H. Dalai Lama',
requesting my opinion. What could I answer? After His Holiness' statements of 1996,
where he declared Dorje Shugden to be a danger to his life and the cause of Tibet, my
friends, teachers, and masters, who had all supported His Holiness with all their effort
throughout their life, were now badly splitting into two heavily opposing groups. It seemed
that the kind words of His Holiness were now replaced by words of segregation. I did not
believe it, refused to watch any recordings and was convinced that some mischief in the
exile government, unknown to myself, was at the root. I was sure that words I saw in
various reports as 'statements of His Holiness' could not be His statements. As perplexed
as I was myself there was little I could do to bring clarity to the perplexed questions of
journalists.
11
In June 1997, the Indian press reported on the fate of Mr. Thubten's family, who was
chased out of their house and village after Mr. Thubten had made public statements on
events of recent Tibetan history, which were seen as a contradiction to statements of the
Tibetan exile government. These reports in the Indian press aroused Mr. Regli's interest.
He pursued investigations for several months and travelled to India in November to get
on-site information.
After his return he requested me to verify the translations of the interviews, which
amounted to some 16 hours of prime video material. Some of the statements by Dorje
Shugden adherents were saddening, but the appearance and the statements of His
Holiness were just devastating for myself. "Fanatic...., fundamentalist...., this is very clear"
(was not shown on TV) are now the words of His Holiness for those who venerate Dorje
Shugden, which includes his own tutor, the philosophical assistants he chose himself, the
chamberlain who arranged his save escape from Tibet, many of the Khampa guerillas who
gave their life for him to escape, many monasteries and whole regions of his own people,
who have always been faithful to him.
Mr. Regli had left Switzerland full of esteem for His Holiness, hoping to meet the famous
person full of radiance and kindness, but what he met was an irritable Dalai Lama, who
insistently negates pinpointing questions of the journalist. With the impression of likeness
to other strong men of Asia, Mr. Regli searched the recent Tibetan history under the rule
of the Dalai Lamas and regents. When he asked me to review one of the reports in order
to verify the correctness of the translations, I saw pictures of a prisoner punished by
having his eyes destroyed. This was so saddening for me that I asked him to remove
them. As he had good reason to include the sequence, he refused. My insistence led to a
bad dispute with Mr. Regli, which finally caused him to revise his report, but solely due to
his reconciling character, not due to any valid arguments from my side.
The historical event behind the disputed pictures was the mutilation of Lungshar, an
influential Tibetan aristocrat close to the 13th Dalai Lama. The Tibetan Minister Trimön
sought capital punishment for Lungshar and punishment of his sons by chopping off their
hands. The effective intervention of Pabongka Rinpoche prevented these punishments
from being executed. Trimön nevertheless succeeded in having Lungshar's eyes
destroyed. Officially, Lungshar was charged for creating a communist party in Tibet, while
other transmissions of the events say that he was making efforts to establish a
constitutional monarchy in Tibet, a form of democratic rule he apparently got to appreciate
during his stay in Great Britain.
If there is any truth in the various reports on the exile government's handling of the Dorje
Shugden issue, then the ruling style of today's Tibetan government still has not overcome
all facets of Lungshar's time. Dear Kelsang, did you ever verify the historical accuracy of
your government's statements? Did you ever talk to living witnesses of recent Tibetan
history? You grew up in the vicinity of the great Chamberlain Phala, the key organizer of
His Holiness' historical escape from Tibet, but did you ever speak to him? May I guess
that you didn't, because you were just about making effort to gain more fluency in the
Tibetan language and to move from a Swiss banking career to Tibetan exile politics when
Mr. Phala passed away. At that time I already had translated for His Holiness during
several years and frequently met Mr. Phala, who was kind enough to honor my interest in
Tibetan history with many amazing details of the escape. What am I to think, when today's
official version from Dharamsala is quite different from the account of many witnesses I
have met? When asked by journalists, do you expect me to ignore my first hand sources
and blindly follow the statements of your government?
12
In your letter you mention that "it is totally baseless and malicious to assert that 'the most
precious life of Kyabje Trijang Chogtrul Rinpoche was in great peril.'"
Do you really think that the letter shown on Swiss TV is a fake? In fact, the threat-letter
shown is the very copy received by Zong Labrang by mail and the relevant lines translate
into: "Anyone who goes against the policy of the government must be singled out one-pointedly,
opposed and given the death penalty..... As for the reincarnations of Trijang and Zong Rinpoche,
if they do not stop practicing Dholgyal and continue to contradict with the word of H.H. the Dalai
Lama, ..... their life and activities will suffer destruction. This is our primary warning."
Twelve monks of Ganden Jangtse, who participated in a demonstration of several hundred
monks of Ganden Shartse requesting religious freedom were expelled from their
monastery. I have met several of these monks: Young boys, who left Chatring in Tibet,
overcame the many obstacles to reach India and to enter the great monasteries, fully
decided to study the Buddha's teachings and to tame their minds. Now ousted and
displaced, one of the boys was constantly worrying that his weak-hearted mother in Tibet
might get to know his predicament and die of sorrow. When I asked why they didn't join
one of the other great monasteries, they replied that many people would get pressured
and suffer if they joined another monastic university and it became known. Dear Kelsang,
who on earth could possibly pressure any monastic university to such an extent, except
the outer, inner, and secret setups of the exile government?
I am quite aware that some of my questions may not comply with your government's
ideas. I am also aware of the fate of Tsultrim from Clementown, Alo Chodzä, Guru Deva
Rinpoche, Dawa Norbu, Jamyang Norbu, Mr. Thubten and many others, who publicly
showed thoughts not in line with the exile government and got chased, beaten, stabbed,
and even killed. I never had any hopes for personal gain when translating for His Holiness,
and my only hope with these lines is that the Tibetan people may find the happiness they
seek. But this will not be achieved by blindly following a leader, even if he is undoubtedly
one of the most outstanding persons of our time.
When His Holiness was giving precious religious advice to subdue self-cherishing and
intolerance, did your government ever make efforts to ensure that every Tibetan will
comply with these great words of the Dalai Lama? Were there ever signature campaigns
for Tibetans to confirm their abandonment of egoism? Were there ever any houses
searched to make sure no stubborn egoists are left? Why is your government so active this
time, trying to ensure that everyone will follow the semblant meaning of his statements?
Authorities who divide their people, are seeking to dominate them. Authorities who seek to
serve their people, will make effort to unite them in harmony.
But anyway, if it is the case, as it seems, that you have the truth, the power and the fame
all on your side, then why do you even consider to mention the name of a person as
insignificant as myself?
9.19.1998
Helmut Gassner

Zach

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2010, 09:58:39 PM »
Ah Just found out its on here as well.... :o
scuse me...could some kind moderator bump this up the list in the articles so I could find gold like this in future and not make a repeat.  :-X

WisdomBeing

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2010, 07:44:37 AM »
Ah Just found out its on here as well.... :o
scuse me...could some kind moderator bump this up the list in the articles so I could find gold like this in future and not make a repeat.  :-X

There's plenty of gold in this website, I've found. And different people are interested in different topics so it might be difficult to bump up interesting stuff. What I'm doing is just going through EVERYTHING! It's great - lots of little treasures here and there... whenever i'm looking through the articles, i wonder at how much work has gone into this site - to collate all the interesting articles. What you might want to do is to help refer any articles you read elsewhere for listing on this site so it helps to be a one stop site for anyone interested in Dorje Shugden.. as far as i can tell, this site has no agenda aside from promoting Dorje Shugden and no schism in the Sangha. I don't see anyone trying to solicit funds, or seeking public acknowledgment/praise... seems like true Dharma to me.

Anyway, happy browsing over this festive season! x
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Zach

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2010, 02:16:36 PM »
Ah Just found out its on here as well.... :o
scuse me...could some kind moderator bump this up the list in the articles so I could find gold like this in future and not make a repeat.  :-X

There's plenty of gold in this website, I've found. And different people are interested in different topics so it might be difficult to bump up interesting stuff. What I'm doing is just going through EVERYTHING! It's great - lots of little treasures here and there... whenever i'm looking through the articles, i wonder at how much work has gone into this site - to collate all the interesting articles. What you might want to do is to help refer any articles you read elsewhere for listing on this site so it helps to be a one stop site for anyone interested in Dorje Shugden.. as far as i can tell, this site has no agenda aside from promoting Dorje Shugden and no schism in the Sangha. I don't see anyone trying to solicit funds, or seeking public acknowledgment/praise... seems like true Dharma to me.

Anyway, happy browsing over this festive season! x

Im going to favourite some of these In future  ;D

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2010, 09:19:57 PM »
...wonder at how much work has gone into this site - to collate all the interesting articles. What you might want to do is to help refer any articles you read elsewhere for listing on this site so it helps to be a one stop site for anyone interested in Dorje Shugden.. as far as i can tell, this site has no agenda aside from promoting Dorje Shugden and no schism in the Sangha. I don't see anyone trying to solicit funds, or seeking public acknowledgment/praise... seems like true Dharma to me.

Uh oh.

I thouhgt the agenda was about stopping the religiously oppressive ban.

Please, let us leave the banning & promoting to the zealots.

WisdomBeing

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2010, 02:18:12 PM »
This is kinda off topic but regarding whether this site had  "the agenda was about stopping the religiously oppressive ban" - i had to re-read the mission statement again in case i was mistaken... here it is for everyone's convenience:

Mission Statement
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=27

This website, an ongoing work in progress, is dedicated to the glorification and deeper appreciation of the name and holy work of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who by peaceful, increasing, subjugating and wrathful means spreads in this world the general and profound teachings of the Buddhadharma that can dispel all suffering and its causes. We believe that what may sound contradictory today, will be revealed as skilful means in the future.

It is dedicated to the lineage Lamas, without whom the holy teachings would have disappeared, and without whose blessings, obtained by a pure bond of faith and reverence, the transmission is broken and the foundation of Enlightenment destroyed.

It is dedicated to the increasing number of aspiring practitioners who have been affected by the apparent controversy about the nature and intent of Gyalchen Dorje Shugden, whose enlightened mind and qualities have and are being recognized and relied upon by so many exalted Masters, some of them with reincarnation lineages all the way back to Buddha Shakyamuni.

We have no wish to convert or even convince anyone about this. In Buddhism we can only convert ourselves, by studying and applying the methods offered – if you practice Tara and become more arrogant and materialistic, it is a bad practice, as far as YOU are concerned. If you pray to Dorje Shugden and become more humble and committed to the Bodhisattva ideal, it is a good practice, as far as YOU are concerned. It is our thoughts, words and actions that make karma. It is our motivation that determines these.

We have a great wish to serve in healing the schism and doubts created in the minds of those new to Dharma or otherwise yet unable to look deeper and strive to apply the principles of non-harming and introspection on every level.

For those passing judgment on enlightened Beings (can you REALLY be sure who is and who is not?) – may we remind you of the Lamrim teachings where it is stated that converting anyone at the cost of their faith in their previous teachers or religion is equal to killing a thousand Buddhas. May we remind you that creating schism within the Sangha is one of the five “crimes of immediate retribution”. May we remind you of the Bodhisattva vow of never giving up Bodhicitta. If something or someone is harmful, misdirected etc., wouldn’t the sign of true practitioners be that their compassion grows?

For those who are influenced by these judgments – their door to Dharma may well close for this life, and who knows when such an opportunity will arise again. Anyone truly concerned could easily avoid the horrible karma created in this way, by truly practicing what they believe is good and becoming a shiny example of goodness and wisdom that speaks for itself.

It is dedicated to provide information and inspiration for those with an affinity to Dharmapala Dorje Shugden, based on writings, sayings, prayers and praises by enlightened Masters and their examples of wisdom and compassion, as well as on sharing interesting thoughts of intelligent people.

Much of our own thoughts and conclusions will have to remain in the realm of speculation, just like so much that has been written, as we are ordinary beings lacking the clairvoyance of the wise. We will, however, do so with the sole aim to present possible ways to see what arises as the display of enlightened minds, not the battle between right and wrong, so as to decrease afflictive emotions and actions and to invite us all to focus on our ongoing responsibility to look deeper; to look within.

“Drive all enemies into one,” as the old Kadampas said; the one (and only) enemy being of course the self-grasping and self-cherishing mind.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

Mana

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2010, 07:58:05 PM »
...wonder at how much work has gone into this site - to collate all the interesting articles. What you might want to do is to help refer any articles you read elsewhere for listing on this site so it helps to be a one stop site for anyone interested in Dorje Shugden.. as far as i can tell, this site has no agenda aside from promoting Dorje Shugden and no schism in the Sangha. I don't see anyone trying to solicit funds, or seeking public acknowledgment/praise... seems like true Dharma to me.


Uh oh.

I thouhgt the agenda was about stopping the religiously oppressive ban.

Please, let us leave the banning & promoting to the zealots.

WisdomBeing, you are correct in your summary of this site and it's intents. We wish Dorje Shugden's practice to be very well known, accepted as it should be and within mainstream Buddhism.

Mana

DSFriend

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2010, 05:42:18 AM »
Ah Just found out its on here as well.... :o
scuse me...could some kind moderator bump this up the list in the articles so I could find gold like this in future and not make a repeat.  :-X

Zach,
Yes, we do have this article on the site. However, do continue to post any interesting news, articles, pictures or videos you come across out there in the cyberspace. Many will find it beneficial and this is one of the main reason why we have this website...to serve others in beneficial ways and to promote our protector.

cheers
« Last Edit: December 30, 2010, 05:44:34 AM by DSFriend »

hope rainbow

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2010, 06:37:10 PM »
ZP,

It seems to me as if this site is about one of the rares ones that is offering seekers a tresure of information about the ban so that they can reach an informed and educated opinion. An opinion that is beyond "taking sides", but more about "truth seeking".

I have learned a lot from it, and it has reconciled my faith with some words and actions of His Holiness that troubled me greatly before. I have reached an opinion, and that is thanks to this site and further personal reflection, meetings and experiences.

Not all will necessarily have the same opinion, but I do not believe that this site has any intention of going against His Holiness. Even if it might look like it. That is my opinion.

thaimonk

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2010, 11:23:16 PM »
I have learned a lot from it, and it has reconciled my faith with some words and actions of His Holiness that troubled me greatly before. I have reached an opinion, and that is thanks to this site and further personal reflection, meetings and experiences.

Not all will necessarily have the same opinion, but I do not believe that this site has any intention of going against His Holiness. Even if it might look like it. That is my opinion.

Very good points. I like it very much. Thanks.

Mana

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2010, 11:27:00 PM »

Dear Forum goers,

If you are going to only criticize this site, or find this site not to your taste, or always subtlely hint at past occurrences  you do not like or you have to 'lurk', then you do not have to be on this site. Nor do we need to read your comments. This is a space that we have chosen to be in. You did not.

Becareful what you post. Post dharma items please.

Mana
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 06:31:57 AM by Admin »

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2011, 12:28:17 AM »
If you are going to only criticize this site, or find this site not to your taste, or always subtlely hint at past occurrences  you do not like or you have to 'lurk', then you do not have to be on this site. Nor do we need to read your comments. This is a space that we have chosen to be in. You do not.

Becareful what you post. Post dharma items please.

I just posted a Dharma Item. But now it seems that someone took it away. You perhaps?

I did not criticize this site. (Nor any Gurus.) I even praised this site. I only bemoaned, that there has, in my view, developed here a culture of discussion that lacks logic and integrity. What I tried to accomplish, was that the readers might be engaged in a truly Buddhist discussion and debate. I also made a request - and here I self-quote myself - "...I nevertheless hope, that those who are not uni-vocalists, can still discuss here, without being avalanched by those who have gone to "the strange side"." Now you see, dear moderator, I was merely trying to discuss the premises and logic of certain views predominant in this forum at this time. And your removing my post pretty much proves my point that there is a sort of Avalanchite Movement going on here.

I did not question HHDL or his decisions, or any other Guru or their decisions. I only questioned certain prevalent forum-members' views and opinions, and if that cannot be made either, then please say so publicly. In other words, is this a discussion forum, or a forum for promoting some singular predetermined truth?

I'll guess that the following point, made by me in the disappeared post, was too much for the currently prevalent Unitarian Church: "But as for going against the HHDL, funnily enough, that is what "the Promoter Party" is constantly doing. They are disregarding the words of HHDL, and are going directly against them. They are indeed disparaging the Guru. Even more funnily, somebody like me is not, since I do not take him as a guru at all. But the "Promoters" do take him as a Guru, and therefore disparage him by promoting DS. Twisted, yes? But logical and true, nevertheless."

Or what was my sin, if not this, namely, not being an univocalist?

_________

Apart from that, this is an interesting statement from you, dear Moderator: "Nor do we need to read your comments. This is a space that we have chosen to be in. You do not."

Sounds like a Chinese Imperialist speaking to a displaced Tibetan, does it not?

I am careful on what I post, as you asked. I do also hope, that you are careful in moderating. You have the power here. Be very careful on how you use it.

Vajraprotector

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2011, 12:49:53 AM »
I think it is very tiring to debate about the 'stand', which I think most of us will agree it has been debated over, and some of us chose to stick with our stand, be it logical or not.

For example, I personally will never go against the Dalai Lama, but if I have to give up my protector, then I am sorry, I will not be able to follow this instruction as it is a sacred relationship that was bestowed upon me by my holy guru. I cannot go against my Guru and follow the Dalai Lama's wish in this aspect.

There is no singular predetermined truth, even the so called "big picture" was just a stand that I decided to believe and trust, some sort of the 'middle path' for me. It is logical for me, because HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche and many great lamas like Ganden Trisur Lungrik Namgyal lead the path. They chose the best way in their situation to continue their practice, without causing huge conflicts with the Dalai Lama. They are not anti-Dalai Lama and I've never heard that any of them have spoken against / spoken ill of the Dalai Lama. 

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2011, 01:09:40 AM »
There is no singular predetermined truth, even the so called "big picture" was just a stand that I decided to believe and trust, some sort of the 'middle path' for me. It is logical for me, because HH Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche and many great lamas like Ganden Trisur Lungrik Namgyal lead the path. They chose the best way in their situation to continue their practice, without causing huge conflicts with the Dalai Lama. They are not anti-Dalai Lama and I've never heard that any of them have spoken against / spoken ill of the Dalai Lama. 

True enough. But neither were they promoting DS, as that would have been against the wishes of Him. It is precisely the position of "promoting while apparently not going against" that is impossible. Logically speaking. It is also unmaintainable, if one wishes to retain ethical integrity.

That is my current axe; my agenda; to make people see that. (Or else prove me wrong by means of debate.)

Mana

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Re: Geshe Helmut Gassner an Interesting story and clarification.
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2011, 06:23:45 AM »
I just posted a Dharma Item. But now it seems that someone took it away. You perhaps?

I did not criticize this site. (Nor any Gurus.) I even praised this site. I only bemoaned, that there has, in my view, developed here a culture of discussion that lacks logic and integrity. What I tried to accomplish, was that the readers might be engaged in a truly Buddhist discussion and debate. I also made a request - and here I self-quote myself - "... Now you see, dear moderator, I was merely trying to discuss the premises and logic of certain views predominant in this forum at this time. And your removing my post pretty much proves my point that there is a sort of Avalanchite Movement going on here.

I did not question HHDL or his decisions, or any other Guru or their decisions. I only questioned certain prevalent forum-members' views and opinions, and if that cannot be made either, then please say so publicly. In other words, is this a discussion forum, or a forum for promoting some singular predetermined truth?
_________

Sounds like a Chinese Imperialist speaking to a displaced Tibetan, does it not?

I am careful on what I post, as you asked. I do also hope, that you are careful in moderating. You have the power here. Be very careful on how you use it.


Any posts not deem fit will be removed.

Many things you write is to express your animosity toward certain individuals participating here and also toward this forum and we have received many complaints regarding you.

If you criticize us that we sound like CHINESE IMPERIALIST, THEN YOU DO NOT NEED TO BE INVOLVED. You are the one insisting to be here. If we are so wrong, why insist to be here.

Yes we have the final say because we spend so much energy, resources and time into this space so do not threaten us to use our power correctly.

You have the power to write words here that encourage dharma, if you do not, this is a warning. Your account has been suspended for three days. Our apologies.

Mana
« Last Edit: January 01, 2011, 07:19:12 AM by Mana »