Author Topic: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?  (Read 11953 times)

Jessie Fong

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #15 on: June 22, 2012, 07:39:15 AM »
So what about cryonics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryonics)? Possible or not?

Or do we create zombies?


Dharma Defender,

Interesting question (oh i love this forum)! Hmmm if people are frozen but legally dead (what is the definition of legally dead anyway) - have their minds moved onto another rebirth, so their bodies, while preserved perfectly, have no life force after all, and would theoretically not be possible to resuscitate?

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To be pronounced legally dead your organs (heart and lungs) must have  irreversibly ceased to function. If the entire brain is not functioning, so that breathing and heartbeat are maintained only by artificial means, that patient meets the whole-brain standard of death.

I made a search and came across this : [http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/cryogenic/] Cryonics is the study of the cryopreservation of the human body.

So, if it is a preservation then there is the chance that you can be revived and all your organs should return to functioning mode.  If that is the case, then does that also mean that the mind did not leave ?

Positive Change

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #16 on: June 22, 2012, 03:19:31 PM »
That is an intriguing question and I believe that what WisdomBeing have mentioned is a normal method from which a being can take rebirth by the force of karma. Cloning have perhaps created a new method for beings to take rebirth. The attraction to the male and female organs is just a method but the real cause behind that is karma. So I think cloning have created new circumstances for beings to take rebirth under the same controlling factor, which is karma. Well, that is how I would see it.

Logically speaking, clones should also have different mindstreams. The union of the female and male should not always be required. After all, there are beings born from heat, and also those born in the formless realms. In these cases, there should not be any union occuring...

I agree with Thor as I too believe there are different ways of taking rebirth. The one we speak of with regards to the union of male and female is but one method of "creation" and as such, one method of rebirth.  As mentioned again by Thor there are those beings born from heat, those born in the formless realms whereby no conventional union (as we perceive) is needed.

So with that logic, cloning could result in a similar fruition... in that a mindstream could be attracted to the conditions whereby it could attach itself to a host much like born of conventional union. I do not believe for one moment our mind streams would say "hey, it is not from conventional union, I will not go there!".

If it is a fully functional animal so why not. After all, if we did take rebirth as an animal, clone or otherwise it is the our very karma that decides that. I do not think there is a distinction hence my answer would mimic that of Thor in that cloned animals would have different mindstreams.

dsiluvu

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #17 on: June 22, 2012, 10:17:20 PM »
I would say YES becuase cloning is just a creation of another vessel/shell still. Even though you a duplicating the cells and DNA but you are not duplicating the mind stream as that is not possible. Unless you are a Buddha and can manifest yourself in to different forms or be in a few forms all at the same time.

So in this case the entity that is in the cloned body is definitely of a different mind stream. I agree that it does not require the union of the female and male organ and the being that enters this cloned vessel/body is still a being that has taken rebirth under the same controlling factors of karma.

The body may be a cloned one but not the mind.

ilikeshugden

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2012, 07:37:21 AM »
Cloned animals are still sentient beings. Cloning is just a new way for a mind to enter a body (rebirth). Thus, their mindstream is different from the original. They may have similar traits. This is similar to how twins work. They may look the same, they may act the same yet they are not the same. They still have different mindstreams. I always thought that the mind is formed between the sperm and the ovum not at the male and female organs.

Positive Change

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2012, 08:05:19 AM »
Cloned animals are still sentient beings. Cloning is just a new way for a mind to enter a body (rebirth). Thus, their mindstream is different from the original. They may have similar traits. This is similar to how twins work. They may look the same, they may act the same yet they are not the same. They still have different mindstreams. I always thought that the mind is formed between the sperm and the ovum not at the male and female organs.

I believe it is said that the moment the primordial blood of the female touches the sperm of the male, that is when the consciousness can and will enter. That is at the exact point of conception it is said!

A friend who was reading "Transform your life: A blissful journey" by Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, said to me that at one point in the book he states that his mother died and three days later he found her reincarnation in a new born baby, to make the long story short. Of course there were other signs and prayers that it was her, and signs afterward that helped confirm.

If this is true, wouldn't his mother had to have died nine months before that baby was born to be reincarnated into that baby? Or am I missing something? Or perhaps it was merely a translation problem as it is often the case.

ratanasutra

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2012, 08:05:00 PM »
positivechange : i learnt that our mindstream enter to body since the sperm has reaction with egg. Therefore when people did abortion, its consider killing as the fetus already exist and has the mind. i not so sure about the story you sharing, perhaps it can be the mistake from the translation or there is an exception about how the mindstream work.

well.. in my opinion cloned animals have different mindstream base on normal beings that have one mindstream in one body, it just a new body in another mind stream even though it same look of body but it consider new one.

 

sonamdhargey

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2012, 12:27:37 PM »
I believe clones would have a mindstream. After all they do take birth, hence there should be a mindstream. Clones are just different method of birth just unnaturally like we perceived it should be. However A clone sheep the name of Dolly, survived 6 years, some scientist claimed that cloned animals have short life. How true it is is still lack scientific research to determined if cloning animals will have any detrimental effects on that animals in the future.

Q

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Re: Do cloned animals have different mindstreams?
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2012, 06:14:15 PM »
I was reading an article about cloned animals (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1335516/Cloned-meat-gets-ahead-Minister-rejects-ban-despite-health-animal-welfare-fears.html) and i was wondering - do cloned animals have their own mindstream different from the original they were cloned from?

Also, in test tube babies - how does the mind get attracted to go into the union between sperm and egg? cos i read before that the mind is attracted to the female organ or the male organ while they are joined and that's how the mind stream enters the new life.


For test tube babies.... It was said that the mind or our consciousness enters us upon the union of the sperm and egg. It doesn't have to be conceived in the traditional manner... if you know what I mean...

As for cloned animals... There would be a different mindstream from the original clone. Why? Because even in nature, there are some animals that continue to exist through cloning themselves as reproduction process (mainly insects and lizards...). So if these beings that naturally clone themselves are able to have separate mindstreams from the parent... then it would be the same for laboratory created clones.