Prime Minister Sangay wants meaningful dialogue with China

[Ensapa]

This is hilarious. Why not attempt to resolve problems within Tibet and CTA before attempting to have talks with China?  Why not just lift the ban on Dorje Shugden, or the very least, listen to what Dorje Shugden practitioners have to say? If you want China to listen to you but you refuse to listen to others, what is that? How can you expect others to listen to you when you dont listen to others? CTA, please wake up.

And oh, I wouldnt release news of Chinese trying to poison Dalai Lama and accusing the Chinese tourists as being spies meaningful at all, by the way. Neither will China. If you truly want a meaningful dialogue, just put an end to all the anti Chinese mongering.

Prime Minister Sangay wants meaningful dialogue with China

LOBSANG SANGAYJULY 24, 2012

Tensions are persisting in Tibet with initiatives by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to bring calm to the region with reason and prayer often seeming hopeless. This has led Tibet's Prime Minister in exile, Dr Lobsang Sangay, to search for manners to open up direct talks with China. The Tibet Post International has reported on a Radio Free Asia story; "Political Leader of Tibet Renews Call for ‘Meaningful’ Talks With China."

Tibet's exile prime minister, Sangay, recently said Tibetans will continue to press for freedom of their homeland, which is now ruled by Beijing, even if their struggle takes another 50 years. Sangay has also said he is ready to resume talks with Chinese authorities on the status of the troubled region. Sangay, who was elected last year as prime minister, or kalon tripa, of Tibet's India-based government in exile, has said that he still hopes for "meaningful" talks even though Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama's envoys to the dialogue with Beijing quit a month ago after those talks stalled.

Sangay has commented "We are always ready to appoint special envoys for dialogue with the Chinese leadership whenever we receive the right signals." In reference to the Dalai Lama's policy of seeking only greater autonomy, and not independence from China, for Tibet, Sangay has gone on to say "We are not discouraged by anything the Chinese government says or does ... but we are unwavering on the path of the Middle Way." And so as Sangay has said "The ball is now in China's court."

[Galen]

Talking big Mr. Prime Minister will not solve any problem. The biggest problem facing Tibet now is your own people. The people are divided because of the policies set by the previous political head, the Dalai Lama. The Tibetans are not even united because of difference in religious practices and has been suppressed by the government. It is better to solve your own problems at home before approaching China.

The possibility of China listening to the CTA is higher if they can show a united front. A united country would have more strength to negotiate. As of now, the Chinese government is happy to see that differences because they can still control Tibet.

Wise up and lift the ban on Dorje Shugden earlier so that you will have a united country to fight for you and their political freedom. Religious freedom can be solved easily by lifting the ban.

[lotus1]

I just could not relate a Prime Minister who presses for the “freedom” of his people, still could not see many of his people are discriminated, ostracized and do not have their basic human rights for education, social, health etc. If he is pro to freedom, he should let all his people to have the freedom for religious and practices. Dorje Shugden practitioners are innocent and do not harm anyone or the society. They are just having different religious practices and follow their Guru’s teaching. So, why should them be punished? 

Please … Dr Lobsang Sangay, please WAKE UP! Lift the ban for Dorje Shugden and treat all your people equally. Then, you are really press for the true FREEDOM for all your people and will be respected by all your people!

[brian]

I would propose to Mr. Prime Minister to address the split within the Tibetan community before embarking on a diplomatic mission with China. Tibet gives me a feeling that it is under unrest all because of the split in the different views of religious practice, in this case Dorje Shugden practice. The real freedom for the people now is actually the uplifting of the ban on Dorje Shugden practice whereby the practice has helped so many people all over the world. I will only hope that the Prime Minister to be able to see the sufferings of the Tibetan people who despite all the hardship continuing their practice and worship to Lord Dorje Shugden. May the ban be lifted real soon!

[DharmaDefender]

This is hilarious. Why not attempt to resolve problems within Tibet and CTA before attempting to have talks with China?  Why not just lift the ban on Dorje Shugden, or the very least, listen to what Dorje Shugden practitioners have to say? If you want China to listen to you but you refuse to listen to others, what is that? How can you expect others to listen to you when you dont listen to others? CTA, please wake up.

And oh, I wouldnt release news of Chinese trying to poison Dalai Lama and accusing the Chinese tourists as being spies meaningful at all, by the way. Neither will China. If you truly want a meaningful dialogue, just put an end to all the anti Chinese mongering.

Prime Minister Sangay wants meaningful dialogue with China

LOBSANG SANGAYJULY 24, 2012

Tensions are persisting in Tibet with initiatives by His Holiness the Dalai Lama to bring calm to the region with reason and prayer often seeming hopeless. This has led Tibet's Prime Minister in exile, Dr Lobsang Sangay, to search for manners to open up direct talks with China. The Tibet Post International has reported on a Radio Free Asia story; "Political Leader of Tibet Renews Call for ‘Meaningful’ Talks With China."

Tibet's exile prime minister, Sangay, recently said Tibetans will continue to press for freedom of their homeland, which is now ruled by Beijing, even if their struggle takes another 50 years. Sangay has also said he is ready to resume talks with Chinese authorities on the status of the troubled region. Sangay, who was elected last year as prime minister, or kalon tripa, of Tibet's India-based government in exile, has said that he still hopes for "meaningful" talks even though Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama's envoys to the dialogue with Beijing quit a month ago after those talks stalled.

Sangay has commented "We are always ready to appoint special envoys for dialogue with the Chinese leadership whenever we receive the right signals." In reference to the Dalai Lama's policy of seeking only greater autonomy, and not independence from China, for Tibet, Sangay has gone on to say "We are not discouraged by anything the Chinese government says or does ... but we are unwavering on the path of the Middle Way." And so as Sangay has said "The ball is now in China's court."

Pot, kettle, black.

Why should Beijing grant dialogue to the Tibetans, if Tibetans wont grant dialogue internally amongst their own people? If Tibet wants dialogue with Beijing, first they should look closer to home and make sure their own affairs are in order, instead of accussing others about gross human rights violations. No wonder no one takes them seriously... they act and think like a bunch of villagers perched on some mountain-top  with no clue about what goes on in the world, and how the world today behaves. Actually given the amount of trouble Tibetans create for themselves, China probably figures if you ignore them long enough, theyll implode and destroy themselves, and the Chinese dont even have to lift a finger.

And to think I used to protest for a Free Tibet!

[DSFriend]

If China did not wish to have a dialogue, whether meaningful or not, with HH the Dalai Lama, whom the world sees as an icon of peace and compassion, do you think China would give a flying toss to talk to Mr Lobsang Sangay, as a representative of the CTA? I don't think so.

If the CTA is serious about gaining any kind of respect from China, they might wish to consider to propitiate the Protector of Tibet, Dorje Shugden, who has never deserted Tibet even though the authorities of Tibet has essentially turned their collective backs on him. Why not try something new, Mr Sangay? Ask Dorje Shugden for advice. He has never been wrong, while Nechung certainly has.

[diamond girl]

The issue of Tibet, Lobsang Sangay, China, democracy and unity is really a combination for despair... Many of you have already said what I would have said. So, I thought to share with you more news on what I found:

1) http://www.chinaorbit.com/travel/tibet/tibet-politics.html
Politics: China's claim to Tibet

In this article you see the history of how China got involved with Tibet as far back as 1653 during the time of the Fifth Dalai Lama. And also how Tibet asked for China's help to remove the occupation of Dzungar Monguls. Read this and you will see how China could take control of Tibet.

2) http://tibetanpoliticalreview.com/

This site has so much news on Tibet Politics. But what I think you guys will find interesting and supports your views of Lobsang Sangay is this one: Woser and Lobsang Sangay Discuss "Unity" and the Freedom to Criticize

Woser basically shoots down Lobsang Sangay on unity and the suppression of criticism towards leaders.

Enjoy!

[vajratruth]

This is really quite confusing. Why is the Kalon Tripa asking for meaningful talks with China when one month before that the Dalai Lama was making provocative statements to piss the Chinese off?

In June 2012, HHDL said in Britain that talks with China would be futile and that: "The issue is (the people's) basic right. In future, unless they start a realistic approach for the Tibetan problem inside Tibet, there's not much to discuss," the Dalai Lama told Reuters in an interview at Britain's houses of parliament" [Reuters]. Hardly reconciliatory words. [Source: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/britain-dalailama-idINDEE85J0EZ20120620]
So, what the Dalai Lama is saying is that there is no point talking to China unless China bucks up on its human rights conduct. 

When the Dalai Lama talks about basic human rights, was HH  referring to the basic rights of Dorje Shugden practitioners that HH has robbed them of? Or was HH referring to another kind of "human rights" like that of the Tibetans who lived as serfs in Tibet pre-1959? So either there are different kinds of "human rights" in HHDL's definition or HHDL does not regard Dorje Shugden practitioners as being human. Which is it?

The CTA and HHDL are always beating the democracy drum and therein lies one of the biggest modern day fraud. Tibet has never known democracy and what the CTA practice, even as a government without a country, is not democracy.

It is not democratic for a political leader to unanimously give away the push for Tibet's independence as HHDL did in the 80's. It is not democratic to forcibly seize the properties and rightful title of Lamas who do not acquiesce to the Dalai Lama's ban of Dorje Shugden as in the case of Kundeling Rinpoche. It is not democracy when you suppress religious freedom. And if there is any truth in the rumour that HHDL even tried to start a Communist Party of his own in the 70's, then that is definitely not democratic.

[Klein]

This is really quite confusing. Why is the Kalon Tripa asking for meaningful talks with China when one month before that the Dalai Lama was making provocative statements to piss the Chinese off?

In June 2012, HHDL said in Britain that talks with China would be futile and that: "The issue is (the people's) basic right. In future, unless they start a realistic approach for the Tibetan problem inside Tibet, there's not much to discuss," the Dalai Lama told Reuters in an interview at Britain's houses of parliament" [Reuters]. Hardly reconciliatory words. [Source: http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/06/20/britain-dalailama-idINDEE85J0EZ20120620]
So, what the Dalai Lama is saying is that there is no point talking to China unless China bucks up on its human rights conduct. 

When the Dalai Lama talks about basic human rights, was HH  referring to the basic rights of Dorje Shugden practitioners that HH has robbed them of? Or was HH referring to another kind of "human rights" like that of the Tibetans who lived as serfs in Tibet pre-1959? So either there are different kinds of "human rights" in HHDL's definition or HHDL does not regard Dorje Shugden practitioners as being human. Which is it?

The CTA and HHDL are always beating the democracy drum and therein lies one of the biggest modern day fraud. Tibet has never known democracy and what the CTA practice, even as a government without a country, is not democracy.

It is not democratic for a political leader to unanimously give away the push for Tibet's independence as HHDL did in the 80's. It is not democratic to forcibly seize the properties and rightful title of Lamas who do not acquiesce to the Dalai Lama's ban of Dorje Shugden as in the case of Kundeling Rinpoche. It is not democracy when you suppress religious freedom. And if there is any truth in the rumour that HHDL even tried to start a Communist Party of his own in the 70's, then that is definitely not democratic.

What vajratruth wrote is so true. If CTA is not even practising Human Rights with their own people in exile, how can they even demand China to practise Human Rights?

"Under human rights and anti-discrimination legislation, you have the right to hold your own religious beliefs or other philosophical beliefs similar to a religion. You also have the right to have no religion or belief.

Under the Equality Act 2006, it is unlawful for someone to discriminate against you because of your religion or belief (or because you have no religion or belief):

in any aspect of employment
when providing goods, facilities and services
when providing education
in using or disposing of premises, or
when exercising public functions."

I do believe Kundeling Rinpoche has a strong legal case against CTA for supporting the ban of Dorje Shugden's practice and stripping away rights to the above for Tibetan refugees who practise Dorje Shugden.

More people should step up against CTA to stop such unlawful acts against their own people. They really do not have the right to demand China of practising democracy and human rights. Why are the Americans not demanding CTA to stop their unfair treatment?

[Ensapa]

I do believe Kundeling Rinpoche has a strong legal case against CTA for supporting the ban of Dorje Shugden's practice and stripping away rights to the above for Tibetan refugees who practise Dorje Shugden.
No, CTA's support of the ban was more than stripping away their rights of those who practice Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden practitioners are basically stripped their rights from being human. They are stripped from their rights to live in the community of Tibetans and stripped of their rights to buy food and necessities as well as owning property in the Tibetan colony. That is more and beyond from the charter and it is a crime against humanity by itself. So how different is CTA from China from the inside?

More people should step up against CTA to stop such unlawful acts against their own people. They really do not have the right to demand China of practising democracy and human rights. Why are the Americans not demanding CTA to stop their unfair treatment?
The Americans (their government) are not speaking up against the ban as something that violates human rights because it is of no interest to them. When they speak for Tibet, they are essentially using Tibet as a tool for them to weaken China's influence and make China look bad. That is the only reason why the US is interested in Tibet and sadly, the Tibetans allow this to happen and allow themselves to be used.

What would be nice is to see more and more lamas like Kundeling Rinpoche stepping up and speaking up against the ban as they have the capability and power to do so. This is not going against the Dalai Lama, but going against his oppressive ban and also demanding an explanation to why Dorje Shugden practitioners deserve what has happened to them. CTA needs to be accountable and for years both the CTA and HHDL has been avoiding the questions regarding Dorje Shugden and they should be made to speak by the media with proof presented. It is time.

[dsiluvu]

Tibet's exile prime minister, Sangay, recently said Tibetans will continue to press for freedom of their homeland, which is now ruled by Beijing, even if their struggle takes another 50 years. Sangay has also said he is ready to resume talks with Chinese authorities on the status of the troubled region. Sangay, who was elected last year as prime minister, or kalon tripa, of Tibet's India-based government in exile, has said that he still hopes for "meaningful" talks even though Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama's envoys to the dialogue with Beijing quit a month ago after those talks stalled.

Sangay has commented "We are always ready to appoint special envoys for dialogue with the Chinese leadership whenever we receive the right signals." In reference to the Dalai Lama's policy of seeking only greater autonomy, and not independence from China, for Tibet, Sangay has gone on to say "We are not discouraged by anything the Chinese government says or does ... but we are unwavering on the path of the Middle Way." And so as Sangay has said "The ball is now in China's court."

Good that they the PM has a voice - finally but I think the tone is sounds a bit too arrogant don't u think?

...but we are unwavering on the path of the Middle Way." And so as Sangay has said "The ball is now in China's court."

So what about the middle way for Dorje Shugden practitioners??? Is there any Dr. Lobsang Sangay... perhaps before we start to expect Freedom from others we should consider giving it to our own people. Ever heard of lead by example? This is too hilarious and embarrassing... with this type of level of thinking no wonder Tibet is lost. I am sorry but everyone knows to clean up their own mess at home first before going out there and pointing fingers on others or demanding from others. It has never worked and by some remarkable magic, that goes against karma... it is suppose to now? Where is the logic???

[Ensapa]

Good that they the PM has a voice - finally but I think the tone is sounds a bit too arrogant don't u think?

...but we are unwavering on the path of the Middle Way." And so as Sangay has said "The ball is now in China's court."
Not really, it is just a case of pushing responsibilities. CTA knows it has some issues to fix with China, but instead of fixing them, they want to push it to China and say that it is China's responsibility to fix them. It is a dodging tactic to make China sound like the bad guy.

So what about the middle way for Dorje Shugden practitioners??? Is there any Dr. Lobsang Sangay... perhaps before we start to expect Freedom from others we should consider giving it to our own people. Ever heard of lead by example? This is too hilarious and embarrassing... with this type of level of thinking no wonder Tibet is lost. I am sorry but everyone knows to clean up their own mess at home first before going out there and pointing fingers on others or demanding from others. It has never worked and by some remarkable magic, that goes against karma... it is suppose to now? Where is the logic???
It's called the lopsided logic. CTA will only take care of the interests of the Tibetans, even if it means causing China to be in trouble. They do not care about China who took their country away when not all Chinese are bad and the very reason why they lost Tibet was because of their collective negative karma over the centuries. Korea had to pay for ostracizing Buddhism in favor of confucianism with the splitting of their country, why would Tibet not be spared from such a fate due to the banning of the various tulkus throughout tibetan history?

It is clear that CTA thinks that propaganda will work in every turn of the way when it will not, and there will be some times where it will not work at all and even backfire. For now, the Dalai Lama propaganda and effect might work, but it will not work forever. There will be a time where people can see through the lies that CTA has concocted against Dorje Shugden practitioners, while they do not question the Dalai Lama as he had not blown the whole thing out of proportion or distort it in the name of enforcing it.