Author Topic: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match  (Read 7848 times)

KhedrubGyatso

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The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« on: November 08, 2011, 03:26:14 AM »
I came across this many years ago. It is still a challenge for me  to match them with correct understanding. It is best not to be sneaky  by fitting the most obvious and then prop the remaining answers into the other questions. It is meant for us to check our basic understanding of Buddha's teachings. It is not mix and match either. Pl  explain your match so we can learn from each other. Aim for the best match.

Clinging to :

1.This Life
2. Self
3. A standpoint ( an assertion )
4. Existence

 Answers :

1. No Pure mind
2. No Practice
3. No Freedom
4. No Right view




 



kurava

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2011, 03:34:21 AM »
Clinging to this life  - no practice
The basis for Buddhist practice is one's belief in future lives & karma, therefore if one clings to only THIS LIFE, one will devote all one's energy and time in the improvement on this one life alone and one will not follow any spiritual practice.

Clinging to self     - no pure mind
If we look at what qualifies as purity of mind, we will know it's all about focusing on others and free of the 8 worldly comcerns.

Clinging to a standpoint    - no right view
If we cling to an assertion without even considering that others might be right, we are just like the over turned pot - nothing can go in, so how to have right view ?

Clinging to existence   - no freedom
Liberation /freedom in Buddhist's sense is out of the six realms.  If we cling on to existence of any form, we shall never get out of the cyclic rebirth thus no freedom.

I'm just guessing here with my own reasoning, perhaps others will have  more logical matchings  :D. The floor is open !

hope rainbow

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2011, 07:04:24 AM »
I did not look at Kurava's reply before locating the links.
After I linked the clinging's to the reasons, I saw we had the same answers...

CLINGING TO THIS LIFE for THE LACK OF PRACTICE
If I have practiced a spiritual life, why would I be clinging to this life?
I should even be looking forward for the next life, the improved model with additional tools, the better package!

CLINGING TO SELF for THE LACK OF PURE MIND
If a pure mind is one free of selfish concerns, free of mundane concerns, then a selfish mind is at the opposite of a pure mind.
What does a selfish mind do? It clings to the self.

CLINGING TO ASSERTION for THE LACK OF RIGHT VIEW
Right view is not an assertion, right view is right view.
An assertion is like a dogma, it potentially resists to things like: experience, logic or other assertions.
Right view is the result of experience, logic and the letting go of assertions.

CLINGING TO EXISTENCE for THE LACK OF FREEDOM
freedom works with any clinging, as "clinging to something" is automatically NOT freedom.
So perhaps the most absolute freedom is to let go of our clinging at existence?

KhedrubGyatso

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2011, 05:30:28 AM »
Hi , Thank u Kurava and HR for giving spot on matches.
I think its good if we get relational understanding of the clingings. What would  constitute RIGHT OR CORRECT  VIEW? The Buddha always avoid the labelling of what is right or wrong. He always uses the term wholesome or unwholesome and skilful or unskilful when describing actions of body speech and mind.  Therefore, in finding out the meaning of Right View , it should be based on this understanding.

shugdentruth

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 07:51:58 PM »
this life = no freedom

self = no pure mind

a standpoint = no practice

existence = no right view

hope rainbow

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2011, 12:58:24 PM »
Hi , Thank u Kurava and HR for giving spot on matches.
I think its good if we get relational understanding of the clingings. What would  constitute RIGHT OR CORRECT  VIEW? The Buddha always avoid the labelling of what is right or wrong. He always uses the term wholesome or unwholesome and skilful or unskilful when describing actions of body speech and mind.  Therefore, in finding out the meaning of Right View , it should be based on this understanding.

Thank you KG, give us more like this!
Hope Rainbow

vajrastorm

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2011, 12:03:50 PM »
Khedrup Gyatso says that  'right view' should be understood as 'wholesome view'. I take a wholesome view to mean an all-encompassing view, a view that takes into account all interdependent  and interlink aspects and factors. In light of this definition, 'clinging to a standpoint or an assertion' is not a right view, because it is a 'micro view' and not all-encompassing; it is 'my view' and hence  arises from a strong sense of 'I' . Hence it bespeaks of self-grasping.     

KhedrubGyatso

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2011, 01:15:27 PM »
A truly wholesome view can only come about if we are aware of all of the following :-
1. oneself
2. others
3. environment
4. reality

I believe a lot of us have awareness of the above. The problem is not the lack of such awareness but rather the lack of understanding how all are interdependent.  We tend to isolate them or look at them with unequal consideration when dealing with problems or when associating them with our states of happiness or suffering.

Eg when we are angry at someone, we are only thinking of the faults of our perceived enemy. Hence our anger is total and become utterly destructive. If we take into consideration that we are also a party to the situation, that will reduce the force of our anger . If we consider that  our anger can harm others, trigger a stroke,  or the quarrel that ensue can disturb others within hearing distance, it will reduce further the venomous force of our anger. Taking this further ,if we realize  that most wars start from two angry person , and how our environment can be destroyed in the midst of it, I am sure we will be very determined to control our anger , even if we can't do it very well now.

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2015, 02:08:17 PM »
This is really a wonderful way to catch ourselves in this simple kind of a quiz.  Beautiful way to be aware and be watchful of our conduct and way of living.  Here goes my effort in matching these words:

1) Clinging to this life:  No practice: Therefore deluded and does not understand the 4 noble truths.

2) Clinging to Self:  No Pure Mind: Lack practice of thinking of others and creates contamination of one's ego.

3) Clinging to A Standpoint (an assertion) : No Right View: being righteous and do not have the ability to see another point of view.  An egotistical person.

4) Clinging to Existence:  No Freedom: fear to be wrong and always in hiding and doing what pleases the crowd.

Try this matching exercise, very interestingly honest with oneself.

eyesoftara

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2015, 12:16:12 PM »
This is really a wonderful way to catch ourselves in this simple kind of a quiz.  Beautiful way to be aware and be watchful of our conduct and way of living.  Here goes my effort in matching these words:

1) Clinging to this life:  No practice: Therefore deluded and does not understand the 4 noble truths.

2) Clinging to Self:  No Pure Mind: Lack practice of thinking of others and creates contamination of one's ego.

3) Clinging to A Standpoint (an assertion) : No Right View: being righteous and do not have the ability to see another point of view.  An egotistical person.

4) Clinging to Existence:  No Freedom: fear to be wrong and always in hiding and doing what pleases the crowd.

Try this matching exercise, very interestingly honest with oneself.

In the Diamond Sutra there is something similar:

The is no mark of self,
Mark of others,
Mark of living beings
and the mark of a life.

The Buddha. “You should dwell in the Four Dwellings of Mindfulness.
These are:

1. contemplation of the body as impure,
2. contemplation of feelings as suffering,
3. contemplation of thoughts as impermanent,
and
4. contemplation of dharmas as devoid of self.

Are there similarly matches we can do with above?


Dondrup Shugden

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Re: The 4 Clingings - Understand and match
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2015, 07:02:39 AM »
Dear Eyesoftara, from the dictionary clinging and dwelling seem to mean the same expression of emotions.

Thank you for expanding context and meaning of this pairing.  I suppose with the elimination of self even towards the contemplation of Dharma is a very powerful mind transference to Emptiness.  The ultimate state of mind.