Author Topic: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".  (Read 6437 times)

Harold Musetescu

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Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« on: January 20, 2017, 08:30:44 PM »
I have written on this site that Dorje Shugden can be seen as an emanation of Buddha Vajrapani.

I have written on this site that Dorje Shugden can easily be made into a "Yidam".

Now I realize that I was totally wrong in these views.

Who am I to go against the Lamas, Geshes and Tulkus who follow Dorje Shugden.

If Dorje Shugden is an "Enlightened Being" then why in over 400 years have they failed to make Dorje Shugden a "Yidam".

Why is there no "Empowerment or Sadhana Practice" for Dorje Shugden as a "Yidam".

All the great teachers in the past and in the present have done nothing to make Dorje Shugden a "Yidam"

They all claim he is a "Emanation" of "Buddha Manjushri" or "Buddha Vajrapani". But these are only words with no actions. There is an old saying "Deeds Speak" and since these great teachers have done NOTHING to produce an "Empowerment or Sadhana" for Dorje Shugden what should we think?

These great Masters could have formally asked either the Panglung or Gameng Kuten to go into trance. While in trance Dorje Shugden could have be asked to give us his "Empowerment and Sadhana". This was in fact the way it was done for us to now have the "Dorje Shugden Dice Divination" method.

Did they every approach any of these great Oracles and ask this simply question to Dorje Shugden?
To the best of my knowledge the answer is NO. This then begs the question why not.

So dear readers if Dorje Shugden is an "Enlightened Being" a "Buddha" then where or where is his "Empowerment and Sadhana"? It's no where to be found and if these great teachers can not or will not themselves or via a Oracle produce one, then what are we to think?

So if there is no "Empowerment or Sadhana" in over 400 years to formally prove that Dorje Shugden is an "Enlightened Being" then what or what are we to believe?


Matibhadra

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2017, 12:24:04 AM »
Quote
So if there is no "Empowerment or Sadhana" in over 400 years to formally prove that Dorje Shugden is an "Enlightened Being" then what or what are we to believe?

We are to believe that you are emotionally agitated.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2017, 12:50:45 AM »
Hello Matibharda and the answer to your question is YES.

I really don't get how after 400 years the Lamas and great teachers of Dorje Shugden have not got off their collected behinds and done their jobs.

Ask your Lama if "no empowerment and no sadhana means no Buddha".

All one of them has to do is write the "empowerment and sadhana". If they feel that their not "worthy" enough then simple go to a Dorje Shugden Oracle. They can get a "Dorje Shugden Dice Divination" from the Oracle but their just to busy to ask for the empowerment and sadhana to worship Dorje Shugden as a "Yidam".

This is the reason for the BAN by the Dalai Lama and CTA. They don't believe Dorje Shugden is an "enlightened being" and it appears that neither do the Lamas, Geshes or Tulkus. If they did believe he is
"enlightened" then why in over 400 years have you failed to give us his "empowerment and sadhana".

They can either stop teaching Dorje Shugden is "enlightened" or they can get off their behinds and get it done.

So could either H.H. Trijang Rinpoche, H.E. Gangchen Rinpoche, H.E. Zasep Rinpoche, H.E. Panglung Rinpoche, H.E. Tsem Rinpoche etc write the "empowerment and sadhana" yourself's or go to Panglung Kuten or Gameng Kuten and get it while they go into trance.

You can get a "Mo Dice divination" but not an "empowerment or sadhana".

REALLY??????

Matibhadra

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2017, 03:26:33 AM »
Hi Harold, thanks for the feedback.

One could say that Dorje Shugden is already a yidam, and as such appears under the aspect of Manjushri. As much as one could say that Manjushri is already a supramundane protector, and as such appears under the aspect of Dorje Shugden.

In the same way, one could say that Manjushri is already a guru, and as such appears under the aspect of Lama Tsongkhapa and our personal gurus; and that such gurus are already buddhas, and as such appear under the aspect of Manjushri.

Maybe your urge to see Dorje Shugden cultivated as a yidam betrays a strongly dualistic resistance to see Dorje Shugden as identical to yidam Manjushri, which defeats the whole meaning of seeing Dorje Shugden as a buddha: Buddha Manjushri.

And, by the way, the proof of this statement, and of your inner, strongly dualistic resistance to see Dorje Shugden as a buddha, and specifically as Buddha Manjushri, is the very title you gave to this thread: “Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being”.

Matibhadra

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2017, 04:39:39 AM »
Besides, since you refuse to see Dorje Shugden as a yidam, such as Manjushri, isn't it contradictory that you want to see him as a yidam?

Harold Musetescu

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2017, 03:36:22 PM »
Hello Matibhadra

I do see Dorje Shugden as my Buddha, my Guru, my  Yidam and a Dharmapala.

Do the Lamas, Gehes and Tulkus that teach us about Dorje Shugden believe he is a Buddha and a Yidam?

I know they believe he is a Dharmapala.

If they do believe he is a Buddha and Yidam why in over 400 years have they failed to officially make him a "Yidam".

No "Empowerment" and no "Sadhana" equals no "Yidam".

Please Trijang Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche, Zasep Rinpoche, Panglung Rinpoche, Tsem Rinpoche etc.  make Dorje Shugden and "Yidam" in 2017.

Matibhadra

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2017, 06:00:31 PM »
Hi Harold, you say

Quote
I do see Dorje Shugden as my Buddha, my Guru, my  Yidam and a Dharmapala.

However, you still fail to see Dorje Shugden as Manjushri, which is why you complain that Dorje Shugden is not a yidam.

Harold Musetescu

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2017, 06:20:42 PM »
Hi Matibhadra

I see Dorje Shugden as Vajrapani as per my article on this website "Dorje Shugden is Buddha Vajrapani".

Matibhadra

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2017, 09:20:35 PM »
Hi Harold, you say

Quote
I see Dorje Shugden as Vajrapani as per my article on this website "Dorje Shugden is Buddha Vajrapani".

That sounds pretty good. Therefore Buddha Dorje Shugden, functioning as a yidam, appears under the aspect of Buddha Vajrapani, with all his empowerments and sadhanas. And Buddha Vajrapani, functioning a a supramundane Dharma, protector appears under the aspect of Buddha Dorje Shugden. Better than this only twice this!

Harold Musetescu

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2017, 10:18:10 PM »
Hi Matibharda

As Trakze the wrathful emanation of Dorje Shugden he appears as Vajrapani Trakze riding on Vajrapani Black Garuda. Two Vajrapani's in one. Tsem Tulku has given teachings on Lama Zopa Rinpoche's "Fire Sword of Black Garuda". The sadhana starts with "Namo Guru Vajrapaniye", "Homage to Guru Vajrapani". So Black Garuda is an emanation of Buddha Vajrapani.

Buddha Vajrapani Trakze riding on Buddha Vajrapani Black Garuda. COOL  8) 8) 8)

Matibhadra

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Re: Proof, Dorje Shugden is not an "Enlightened Being".
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2017, 11:19:06 PM »
And all of this thanks only to our kind teachers, who are Guru, Yidam, and Dharmapala, all under the aspect of an ordinary human being...  :) :) :)