Author Topic: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE  (Read 8501 times)

Big Uncle

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NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« on: April 09, 2010, 05:34:22 PM »
As quoted from Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche:-

THE CLOSE RELATIONSHIP OF NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN

When Dorje Dragden, overlord of the haughty ones
Repeatedly urged you fulfill your vow to arise
As a Dharma protector uncommon to the Geden,
You generated that mind of wrathful courage, praise to you!
 
Numerous times, during breaks between sessions of the great Manjushri Tsongkhapa's teachings at Ganden, there was a boy wearing white clothes who would come before him and demand, 'You must give me a helper!' Gyaltsab Je and Kedrub Choje knew the boy was an emanation of Pehar but never said anything. Since, at that time, Dulzin Dragpa Gyaltsen was the elder leader of the disciples receiving teachings, one day he said to the boy, 'It won't do for you to keep coming here and disturbing Je Lama when he is giving teachings! I'll give you whatever help it is that you want!' When he said that, the boy said, 'That ismy purpose! It is your help that I have been waiting to find! Now, here at this time, among all of the disciples, you have accepted!' Having said that, the boy became invisible and disappeared. At the time of Dulzin Dragpa Gyaltsen's later incarnation, Panchen Sonam Dragpa, the overlord of all of the haughty gods and spirits that exist in the world, Dorje Dragden, said to the Panchen,
'Manjusri of Blissful Intelligence has insisted that I should principally protect the Geden Teachings, but since I have already sworn to Padmasambhava that I would protect all of Buddha's Teachings in general, there is no way that I can principally protect only the Geden Teachings. Now Panchen, you yourself, among holders of the Geden Teachings these days, have the highest qualities of learning and realization. Not only that, you must arise as a wrathful protector of the Geden Teachings to fulfill the commitment you have previously made!'
At that time, saying only that he would check, the master did not commit himself. Then, when his later incarnation, Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, was urged by the Great Dharma King Nechung to remember his previous promise, Dragpa Gyaltsen asked, 'What promise?' seeming not to remember. Pehar gave him something from his hand, saying, 'If you take this and meditate, you will clearly remember.' Just as he said, by staying in seclusion, the master was reminded and generated fierce courage that did not shrink from arising in the form of a powerful fierce swift Dharma protector uncommon to the Geden in accordance with his previous promise. It is that demonstration of courage for which he is being praised in this verse.
The way that Nechung Gyalchen Dorje Dragden urged Panchen Sonam Dragpa to arise in the form of a fierce protector of the Geden Teachings is clear in the Drepung edition of the Panchen's biography. Moreover, if we examine carefully the last vision cited above, that Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen had on the third day of the third month of the fire monkey year, before his sudden death at the age of thirty?eight in the fifth month of that year, from the second verse onwards, from 'Guide of devas and humans, Arhat Upagupta,' up to 'It is very important to understand...that this is the meaning of the drawn picture of samaya!' one can see it there, as well.   
Also, in the great master Padmasambhava's Exhortation Address he said,

It's like this!  Listen, O faithful king!
When Buddha came to this world, he was the Shravaka Upali,
When he passed into paranirvana he was called Upagupta,
In the city known as Bhava Bhadra, Excellent Nature.
To the east, in a region near China,
He will be the Shakya monk known as 'Lozang'.

Accordingly, going back to the last vision for a moment, not only had he received the command and commitment from his direct and lineage gurus such as Je Tsongkhapa who were of the same mental continuum as the Arhat Upagupta, it is also pleased him to hear it in the words of exhortation from that Protector of the Four Places, the Dharma King Nechung, and he had a vision of arising as a lord of the wrathful ones with an entourage of wrathful spirits and wrathful offerings.
Yet his wish to arise as a protector of Je Tsongkhapa's teachings and the opportunity of the circumstances that would converge between the Great Fifth Dalai Lama and Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, who were two great beings like the sun and the moon, seemed remote at the time. How quickly the commitments joined as one, he was enthroned, and so forth, as a great powerful wrathful protector of the Geden teachings, can generate conviction, as well.

Lee Dhi

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2010, 03:44:21 AM »
Big Uncle, thanks for the extract from Music Delighting An Ocean of Protectors by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. I have heard of this close relation between Nechung and Dorje Shugden before. However, the clear illustration through the writings of our highly regarded Trijang Rinpoche, reinforces the relationship and the “behind the scenes” efforts for the manifestation of our Great Protector – Dorje Shugden!

From the records of Trijang Rinpoche, it is evident that Nechung, who still advises the Dalai Lama today, caused the birth of Dorje Shugden. If Nechung swore to Padmasambhava to protect ALL of Buddha’s teachings, it is unlikely that Nechung would permit, what more be the catalyst to, the creation of Dorje Shugden, who is claimed by some to be un-Dharmic….unless, Dorje Shugden will in actuality benefit and the teachings of Buddha.

From the presentation of reliable sources of writings and official records by highly regarded Dharma Masters in this thread and other threads, one can arrive at the conclusion that Dorje Shugden is created and promoted with the efforts of many pivotal roles in Buddhadharma like Buddha Manjusri, Nechung and the Dalai Lama through the time frame of several lifetimes for the benefit of Buddhadharma and sentient beings

Perhaps, the access we now have to more of such data is a sign indicating that we must see through all the controversies, dramas and their distractions and re-focus our faith and energies to practice Dharma purely.

Midakpa

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2010, 08:00:21 AM »
Nechung, the State Oracle, has served His Holiness the Dalai Lama well. It has been said that when Nechung becomes enlightened, he will retire and will be replaced by Dorje Shugden.

In his book on "Oracles and Demons of Tibet", Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz gave a description of the Nechung Gompa. The Nechung Gompa "lies about half a mile to the south of Drepung, Tibet's biggest monastery and one of the main strongholds of the Gelugpa order... The southern gate is held closed in accordance with an old tradition that the chos skyong rDorje shugs ldan is waiting at this entrance for the day to come on which he will be allowed to enter the monastery, to succeed Pe har as the chief dharmapala of Tibet after the former has become a 'jig rten las 'das pa'i srung ma and has vacated the temple. (pp.444-445)

The author also notes that "Though Nechung Gompa is an establishment of the rNying ma pa sect, religious - and also political - ties link it closely to Drepung, and most of the ceremonies carried out at the first-named establishment are therefore a mixture of rNying ma pa and dGe lugs pa practices." (p.444)

Perhaps all that we have witnessed and are witnessing now, is a preparation for Dorje Shugden to succeed Nechung as the chief dharma protector of Tibet. Personally, I believe Dorje Shugden is capable of much more than just being a protector of Tibet. In the modern world, Dorje Shugden's role is to bring about world peace.

Zhalmed Pawo

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2010, 10:23:45 AM »
Perhaps all that we have witnessed and are witnessing now, is a preparation for Dorje Shugden to succeed Nechung as the chief dharma protector of Tibet. Personally, I believe Dorje Shugden is capable of much more than just being a protector of Tibet. In the modern world, Dorje Shugden's role is to bring about world peace.

As all the Buddhas, Pratyekabuddhas, Arhats, Bodhisattvas, Enlightened Dharmapalas and Dharmapalas on the Path, have not been able so far to bring about world peace, why do you think that a single Dharmapala could achieve it?

Dorje Shugden is not some Buddhist Jesus who will bring peace and paradise some day. So please, let us not become theistic in our views and hopes.

Midakpa

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2010, 01:36:42 AM »
Hope for the future depends on our potential for outer and inner peaceful transformation. The practice of Dorje Shugden accelerates this transformation. But the Buddhist practice of peace is not limited to Tibetan Buddhism and certainly not Dorje Shugden. World peace is a collective movement but it has to start with the individual transforming and acquiring an attitude of gratitude and compassion. As Master Sheng-yen says, "To achieve social peace, Buddhism begins with a program of inner peace, believing that long-lasting peace derives from the ability of each person to calm his or her own mind and to temper actions controlled by the mind." (Buddhist Peace Work, 1999:176)

Buddhist peacemaking is very active in many parts of the world. We just have to look at the work of religious leaders like the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, Maha Ghosananda, Karma Lekshe Tsomo and organisations like Tzu Chi, Soka Gakkai, the Korean Buddhist Chontae Order Toward World Peace, the Sarvodaya Shramadana Movement of Sri Lanka, etc etc. The latest addition to the struggle for world peace is the Kechara World Peace Centre (KWPC) founded by His Eminence Tsem Tulku Rinpoche (see Kechara.com website).

My point is, although the future looks bleak and hopeless, we as practitioners, shouldn't give up hope. Dorje Shugden is not a Buddhist Jesus, not a god. But he can help us to transform.

a friend

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2010, 05:57:08 AM »
Quote
Buddhist peacemaking is very active in many parts of the world. We just have to look at the work of religious leaders like the Dalai Lama,

Excuse me, you said "peacemaking"?


Midakpa

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2010, 09:18:50 AM »
Sorry, I mean peacework.

dsnowlion

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2010, 07:42:20 PM »
Hope for the future depends on our potential for outer and inner peaceful transformation. The practice of Dorje Shugden accelerates this transformation. But the Buddhist practice of peace is not limited to Tibetan Buddhism and certainly not Dorje Shugden. World peace is a collective movement but it has to start with the individual transforming and acquiring an attitude of gratitude and compassion. As Master Sheng-yen says, "To achieve social peace, Buddhism begins with a program of inner peace, believing that long-lasting peace derives from the ability of each person to calm his or her own mind and to temper actions controlled by the mind." (Buddhist Peace Work, 1999:176)

Buddhist peacemaking is very active in many parts of the world. We just have to look at the work of religious leaders like the Dalai Lama, Thich Nhat Hanh, Maha Ghosananda, Karma Lekshe Tsomo and organisations like Tzu Chi, Soka Gakkai, the Korean Buddhist Chontae Order Toward World Peace, the Sarvodaya Shramadana Movement of Sri Lanka, etc etc. The latest addition to the struggle for world peace is the Kechara World Peace Centre (KWPC) founded by His Eminence Tsem Tulku Rinpoche (see Kechara.com website).

My point is, although the future looks bleak and hopeless, we as practitioners, shouldn't give up hope. Dorje Shugden is not a Buddhist Jesus, not a god. But he can help us to transform.

Firstly Thank you Big Uncle for posting this topic up. It gives another perspective and side of the story besides the one that been told by HH the Dalai Lama which is Nechung is the one that has asked him to stop the practice of Dorje Shugden. Whether that is true or not, Midakpa you have given another perspective of looking at it. And I do agree that during this time of much degeneration, we will definitely need a protector that is closer to the people who will not only answer our prayers swiftly but to also help us transform our mind. For transformation of the mind is the only key and "hope" for a better future for everyone.

Of course Dorje Shugden is not Jesus Christ who says you just have to believe me and your sins a cleansed, and even Jesus himself probably did not mean what he said literally in that way. I don't think you can kill a thousand people and then be baptized and then walah you are cleansed and no negative consequences for your actions. Sorry side tracking a bit there. Basically the point is not that.

The point is I believe what you are saying is that because of Dorje SHugden's karmic affinity towards us during this time is extrememly strong and close, for those who start to rely and perpetuate Him will gain blessing to do more Dharma, which will transform their minds where they will realise more Dharma, practice more and hence change become better. That I think is surely possible because Dorje SHugden has proven to work very swiftly - hence He is a Dharma Protector for our future. To Protect us from degenerating.

I also like your examples of the many world peace centres being created these days for the benefit of many. And I think Dorje Shugden practice can surely bring more peace in to this world, our centres, to China for when we start to rely upon him correctly and people's mind change due to practice then everything else will just follow naturally :)

honeydakini

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2010, 04:26:21 PM »

One who despises another Buddhist school despises the Buddha. He impairs the transmission of the Dharma. The presence of the Dharma is jeopardized by such an attitude, and one becomes cut off from its transmission. This is so because one’s refuge vows are based upon reliance on the Enlightened One, His Teachings, and the Holy Community. If one rejects Dharma one breaks one’s refuge vow and thereby becomes cut off from the Dharma. By rejecting this Dharma that is the only door to happiness for beings and oneself, one accumulates inexhaustible sin.

Therefore, the Buddha taught that one should also not despise the Dharma of non-Buddhists for it is their source of happiness and benefit. One should not despise or harbour contempt for the doctrines of the Hindus, Christians, or other non-Buddhist religions because this attitude of attachment to one’s own side while rejecting the possibility of differences is harmful to one’s own spiritual career.[/b]

This is a really stunning reminder of what it means to really respect and uphold the Dharma that we are trying to practise. Thank you for sharing this! I think this is one of the biggest dangers we can fall into in this kind of situation / "conflict", where people can tend to become too righteous and smug about themselves, like what you said about people thinking they are greater than others too just because they are DL's students. That basis of how one regards their teacher is therefore already wrong - i.e. as a celebrity, with a big reputation, rather than as someone who is a guide to our spiritual path.

Also, it becomes highly ironic that they represent their spiritual teacher by such haughtiness and "power" when the very person they should be "promoting" or showing a good example of is supposed to be teaching humility, kindness and equanimity!

I have to say though that I think it doesn't just go one way - i.e. from the Dalai Lama's side but if we are not careful, DS practitioners run the risk of also coming across that way. I'm NOT saying that anyone here is doing that as our intentions are very clear and we understand each other, but I think it is important to also consider how, in standing up for our beliefs and defending something we believe in very much, we also don't become self-righteous or dismissive of what the other side think (no matter how illogical it may seem, it is their truth and possibly their concept of what is happiness, for now). It is not to say that we should keep quiet and let them get away with whatever they are doing. Rather, it is about how we can interact with them or how we act ourselves that will inspire more dialogue, willingness to understand and even listen to us.

For example, when we see how snotty, smug and conceited the DL's followers can be, we already find it very difficult to want to engage in any discussion with them from the outset. I think it's important to think of how we might also be viewed by the other side, or even by neutral people. In our own zealousness, might we also run the risk of looking petulant? self-righteous? obstinate? Do we also portray ourselves as overtly rejecting the other side's Dharma? ("dharma")

I'm thinking aloud here. All this is making me ask the question: How can we make a strong enough point (whichever side we are on) without necessarily assuming a stance that seems to be a) rejecting some dharma or another b) self-righteous c) even aggressive d) arrogant

Are the two mutually exclusive?

Dondrup Shugden

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2015, 04:21:14 PM »
In the illustrated story of Dorje Shugden, it is evident that it was Nechung who initiated that Tulku Dragpa Gyalsten should arise as the Dharma Protector of Je Tsongkapa Doctrine.  The initiation started in the life of Dultzin and Nechung reminded TDG which is the incarnation of Dultzin.

Such being the case, as Nechung is the chief protector for the Dalai Lama, how does the Dalai Lama justify that Dorje Shugden is a evil spirit when his Protector said otherwise.

This contradiction is proof of the inaccuracy of CTA and Dalai Lama on this issue.

christine V

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2015, 06:32:41 PM »
Well-said Dondrup Shugden.

Looking at Nechung is also the advisor for "Dalai Lama", and, Nechung have called for Dorje Shugden to rose as Dharma protector,  how could out of sudden Dorje Shugden is an evil being?

Matibhadra

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Re: NECHUNG & DORJE SHUGDEN - KYABJE TRIJANG RINPOCHE
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2015, 08:00:55 PM »
Quote
Looking at Nechung is also the advisor for "Dalai Lama", and, Nechung have called for Dorje Shugden to rose as Dharma protector,  how could out of sudden Dorje Shugden is an evil being?

Which is clear proof of the evil dalie's fakeness.