Unlearning

[brian]

Science and Spiritual does not contradict with each other. But many times, some 'beliefs' in spiritual were proven to be existing by our own eyes while scientist can't find a way to explain the existence of spirits and gods/deities.

Even i feel that there are more things in the universe that science cannot prove what spiritual does. for example the existence of spirits and gods. make it even simpler, an oracle taking trance. Scientist not be able to prove the existence but they can see an oracle who can wear a heavy oracle crown on his head after taking trance. on another arguement also, scientist were amazed by how some high monks (for example Gangchen Rinpoche) can heal a particular sick person by just touching the person.

Spiritual as in Buddha's teachings explained every existence in the world in detailed form while science cannot authenticate the rights and wrongs in spiritualism. Science needs facts while there are many things in spiritualism that scientist has yet to able to proof it.

I feel we do not need to unlearn anything that we know from spiritualism or science in order to accept one another. we just can literally combine the two and i always believe in science while also believe in what i saw with my own eyes. but there are too many examples that i saw in real life that makes me believe there are existence of Buddhas, gods, spirits and other beings in this universe such as aliens. Scientist still can't proof their existence but i do believe they exist.

[KhedrubGyatso]

Unlearning I believe is not about throwing away all the things we have learnt from home, schools or university or in life. It is about adopting better  balance in acquiring a wider spectrum of knowledge so that we see the world with holistic view as opposed to the heavily  ego centric view which our normal education and way of living supports.
Spiritual practice provides this holistic view . Such a view helps us to achieve higher quality of happiness by moving towards others more instead of focussing on ourselves all the time. Scientific knowledge is useful in making our  life easier and more convenient when dealing with externals.  However it does not necessarily equate with higher quality of happiness which can only be achieved through training one's mind. Hence religion provides such training to address this imbalance. When our education is balanced, one will achieve inner and outer happiness. Science can co exist without problems in as far as Buddhist philosophy is concerned because when applied appropriately and conscientiously  both function to improve our  happiness and well being.

[negra orquida]

Its rather annoying to me whenever people say "science proves what the Buddha taught is true"... it is like saying "science proves that gravity exists".  To me, science is still finding out what the Buddha taught 2,500 years ago.

I agree with Hope Rainbow that science is incomplete and a work-in-progress.  One of the key differences between science and dharma is that scientific conclusions can change and is dependent on many factors, but the dharma does not change, it is constant.

This is what His Holiness the 101st Gaden Tripa Lungrik Namgyal had to say about science (extracted from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=12258):

In general, I feel that studying science is good. However, the study and practise of the Buddha’s teachings is the only ultimate way to the liberation of all beings from samsara and for us to become a Buddha so that we can liberate all beings from samsara. Towards this objective, studying the Buddha’s teachings is sufficient. All the 500 Arahants of the past have achieved this without requiring study of science. Studying the Teachings is not to just acquire knowledge or to acquire official paper certificates. Studying the Teachings is to free oneself from samsara and also that oneself can become a Buddha to liberate all beings from their sufferings. Again, towards this aim, studying of the Teachings is sufficient. There is no further need to include the study of science. However, to be a famous scholar recognized by the world, we will then need to study both the Teachings and science!

[kris]

In fact, I felt science has no contradiction to ANY religions, if the religion is genuine to make you a better, kinder person.

What science cover, compared what is talked about in Dharma text, are so little... There are so many things still cannot be explained by science yet, but the way our world has promoted science, has made it very arrogant (many ppl said, if it cannot be proven by science, it is not real).

Science is not EVERYTHING, and I felt we cannot compare science with Buddhism..

[buddhalovely]

Our spiritual path does not intertwine with the teachings of 'logic'. Religion always approaches things beyond what our human eye can see, it thinks beyond the logic. Students generally want to be taught by teachers, by that I mean they hear what a teacher has to say, agree with their ideas and want to learn more from them. It's not necessarily a case of a teacher having to prove anything to his/her students.

Buddhism to me is generally about what we believe personally, while on the other hand science is about what we can prove to each other. This doesn't mean that they are two mutually exclusive 'things' - for me I think Buddhism and science are two sides of the one coin. They are two ways of trying to explain the world in which we live. One (Buddhism) does it by looking inwards, the other (science, obviously) does it by looking externally.

I don't think it's really benficial for one to prove to the other which is correct, for when we think in terms of 'I am right and you are wrong and I can prove it,' then I think we are in danger of losing sight of what we should be trying to achieve. When we begin to want to prove things, that is when we erect barriers and I don't think that is the way of Buddhism.

[Aurore]

I guess this unlearning term actually applies to how we used to see things, how fixated we are with things and our perception of how things should be.

For new learnings to penetrate through our thick skull, we have to be open to new things like a kindergarten kid all over again so that we do not form projections and judgement during a dharma talk, teachings and any other form of knowledge being transmitted to us. It will block our ability to learn so therefore we have to have the attitude as if we know nothing.

[Tenzin K]

Interesting!
I don’t see science and Dharma are contradictory. Instead I have been reading or hearing that how the finding from science proven the Buddhism phenomena.

How I see science it is done through observation of natural phenomena, and/or through experimentation that tries to simulate natural processes under controlled conditions.

And Buddhism is a Buddha's teachings that spiritual technologies that identify the actual, root cause of human suffering and problems and eliminates them.

Both are 2 methods that use to understand the nature of reality. It doesn’t mean we have to unlearn one method in order to learn up the other.

By learning up Buddhism it is a spiritual practice that to change our internal habituation for good, for happiness. This brings true happiness in our lives and also future lives. It’s eternal.

We don’t have to give up things that benefits for endless lives but understand the real meaning of lives and move on towards achieving it.   

[Ensapa]

Once a fellow practitioner said, "Whilst learning science is good, it could also be a hindrance or even detrimental to spiritual practice."

Another fellow student said, "Before I learned Dharma, I thought I knew everything.  Now I have to unlearn everything in order to practice Dharma!"

What do you think about these 2 comments?  How could science be good yet detrimental to spiritual practice at the same time? Is science contradictory or complimentary to Buddhism? If we find that we need to "unlearn" certain ways of thinking to learn the correct way of thinking according to Dharma, does that mean that whatever we have been taught was "wrong"?

I dont think that science will make our spiritual practice go bad, as science encourages investigation and investigation is important for spiritual practice. What is the use of spiritual practice if there is no investigation and realization involved? So far all of the theories that science has found matches with what has been taught in Buddhism. what else can be said about that?

On the 2nd statement, its not about unlearning, but its about being humble. If someone is humble, they can learn a lot of things. Nobody needs to unlearn, they just need to be humble and have the ability to accept that they could be wrong.

[Manjushri]

What I know so far is that alot of things that science has proven, has been explained in the Buddhist teachings, and what Science is yet to find or prove thus far, has been explained in the Buddhist teachings as well.

I do not think that learning science is a hindrance or detriment to spiritual practise. Because to me, spiritual practise is practising to transform yourself for the better, to achieve qualities closer to that of the Buddha. So that doesnt really need science to analyse and prove, because it can be done if you want to.

I don't think also that we have to unlearn everything in order to practise the Dharma. I think it should be that we learn that everything we knew wasn't exactly bringing us happiness therefore using our past experiences, we learn new things by changing ourselves, and our persepectives. We change (or I guess we could use 'unlearn' here) who we were with our defilements and become (or 'learn') a better person. That's practising Dharma. Using our past experiences to teach us so that we have a better tomorrow.

Whatever we have been taught is not wrong per se, it is just that it was influenced by what society knew, what those around us know, what society knows to be right, what our parents, and peers were brought up to think was right. In their mind it is right. But learning the Dharma doesn't make it wrong, I feel it just makes us realise that society doesn't know a better solution to finding happiness. It makes us have a clearer understanding and direction to seeking happiness, liberation and a better future. Maybe people arent' seeking that, so all their wordly pursuits, are still right, because that is their goal and aim.

[jessicajameson]

Once a fellow practitioner said, "Whilst learning science is good, it could also be a hindrance or even detrimental to spiritual practice."

Another fellow student said, "Before I learned Dharma, I thought I knew everything.  Now I have to unlearn everything in order to practice Dharma!"

What do you think about these 2 comments?  How could science be good yet detrimental to spiritual practice at the same time? Is science contradictory or complimentary to Buddhism? If we find that we need to "unlearn" certain ways of thinking to learn the correct way of thinking according to Dharma, does that mean that whatever we have been taught was "wrong"?

To answer your two questions:

1. I don't think that learning science is a hindrance towards our spiritual practice. It may reinforce and strengthen our practice instead.

2. For everything that we do in life, if we want to progress, we have to learn, unlearn and relearn. It's like dropping bad habits, and picking up new ones.

The only way to know that we have taught has been wrong, is to be able to discern right from wrong... and the only way to do that is through knowledge. In this case, Dharma knowledge.

Shantideva says that our mind is a continuum, there's no beginning and no end. For that person to say that before Dharma, he thought he knew everything is just a reflection of arrogance. He doesn't have to unlearn anything, just reduce his ego.

[diablo1974]

Learning science is not a hindrance , when it becomes a hindrance most of the time we do not know it is. But science is a safer bet than being superstitious as it is backed up by logic, experiments and practical researches. If certain religious views needed to be proven by science, i personally applaud that. His holiness Dalai lama mentioned before if science is able to prove what Buddha had said is false and fallible, he will be the first to remove the doctrine from the tripitaka.

Unlearning and then learning or vice versa has no right or wrong, we learn things by conditions....our mind perceive certain views to acknowledge certain reasoning at a point of time in life and events. As we can see our thinking and how we deal with everyday life changes as we aged.  Have you notice that dharma doesnt change but stays true and truth even after 2500years ago. If we uses dharma correctly and applied it to our everyday life withna little creativity...it is not that Difficult.

[Ensapa]

In my case or how my mind works, I dont need to unlearn anything because I am completely aware that my knowledge and what I know as well as my findings could be proven wrong at any given time, and if there is a better view to fill up those views, I would gladly replace my own views with the 'fresh' views as well. I do know that sometimes, when we learn too much, we tend to cling to our knowledge and make it the basis of our confidence and that is how our mind becomes more narrow, until one day where it will no longer be able to accept any other view that is different from its own.

Being narrow minded is dangerous.

[vajrastorm]

Science engages the conceptual mind. The study and practice of Dharma  goes beyond concepts. As long as we use the reasoning conceptual mind, as we do in learning science, and apply it to Dharma, we will not really gain any realization of the Truth, the absolute or ultimate Truth.In fact , through the study of Science, we only acquire knowledge of Relative or Conventional Truth.

Also, in order to truly learn and realize Dharma, we have to unlearn what culture and society have fed us with as 'truths' over a long period. Take, for instance, this - society tells us that Happiness is about getting a well-paid job and  a high position; it's about getting married and having kids. When we learn Dharma , these  so-called means to Happiness are turned on their heads. So we have to unlearn all these preconceptions and expectations that have been ingrained in our minds. Only after we have unlearned all this, can we begin to learn and realize the truths of the Buddhadharma and apply  to our lives to find true freedom from suffering and ultimate peace and happiness.