Author Topic: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink  (Read 24530 times)

Tammy

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #15 on: April 17, 2012, 07:47:06 AM »
Sure, we definitely cannot force the horse to drink if it is not thirsty or it is rebellious!

But, we can always bring the horse to where the water is and just leave the horse there.. when the horse is ready to drink, it will surely go to the water and lower it's neck to drink!

My point is - when someone is not listening to us when we so kindly offer advise, there is no point forcing them to follow, because even if manage to force our way thru, the result will not be long lasting. The best solution is to make the circumstances or conditions suitable and available. when the time is right, they will see the rationale behind our advise and willingly take or follow them.

When the horse refuses to drink, just gently take it to the riverside and leave it there - the horse will drink the water sooner or later.
Down with the BAN!!!

Gypsy

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #16 on: April 17, 2012, 02:35:21 PM »
True, we cannot force a horse to drink. Similarly, we cannot force things to happen. Bringing dharma to one's life is like showing the horse to the water and let it know that there is this place where u can quench your thirst.

It's like planting seeds to one's mind. We fail to bring this person to dharma in this life due to lack of merits, obscurations or whatsoever reasons, but for sure there's some dharma imprint in his mind that he can bring it forward to its next life, it's just the matter of when does this dharma seed open. We as a human form in this life, are so fortunate to receive dharma and practice it, therefore, we shall not take this opportunity for granted, we should do even more to benefit those who needs dharma and we know by giving them dharma, it lessen their sufferings. 

negra orquida

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2012, 12:11:33 AM »
Quote
Using this analogy of the horse drinking water we are able to understand why Dharma is not being put into practice. There are many reasons why we can’t force a horse to drink water:
 
1)   The horse is not thirsty
2)   The horse does not know it has to drink water when it is thirsty
3)   The horse does not know what water is
4)   There is no water in the environment where the horse lives
5)   The horse finds it hard and painful to drink water
6)   The horse perceive the water as something else which is not drinkable
7)   The horse is too sick to drink water

Adding to the above,
8) The horse does not know it is thirsty
9) The horse thinks it is better off being thirsty

The above is a rather good summary of why we can't make a horse drink water. So how do we tackle each kind of scenario? Perhaps some ways to help "make" a horse (person) drink water (learn and practice dharma) could be:

1) Package the water in a way that the horse thinks is nice and delicious and safe and acceptable
2) Splash the horse with water, hoping that some of the water will go into its mouth and that once it has a taste of water, it will drink more
3) Secretly infuse the food it eats with water so the horse is drinking water without knowing



Jessie Fong

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2012, 03:47:16 AM »
A horse is an animal with a mind of its own - it just does not have the vocal capacity to voice out.  You can lead it to water (by force even) for a drink but if it is not thirsty, it will not drink.

Similarly, as humans if we ourselves do not wish to change, we would be like our four-hoofed friend - you can ensure that every possible means is used, all information is available, any and every method is used; but the change and the will to change comes from within. 

A closed mind is not receptive.

ratanasutra

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2012, 05:51:05 PM »
In Buddhist we believe in the law of Karma which is about cause and result..

Hence if we want to become a model, then we need to maintain our body with nutrition food, good exercise, grooming, ect to keep us to have a quality that the model have, in this sense we create a cause to become a model.

In Buddhist we do not force someone to do so but we can create an environment, situation, condition, sample, the benefit etc for them so that it might trickle their mind to have faith and want to do something about it.

In similar scene we can show people where is the food, how to buy, to cook and eat etc but we can not eat or chew for them tho. They must eat by themselve to feel full. So with compassion we lead and show them and help them to create a cause so that they can get the result later.





DSFriend

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2012, 06:05:39 PM »
What's most important is that we practise what we've learnt and transform for the better. It's more convincing if we walk the talk. If we can't even figure out how to drink the water consistently, how are we to teach others? Illogical.

Dear Klein

Yes, what you said is what we are to do no matter what. The wise solution is to "wear a pair of shoes than paving the road with leather". The frustrations and disappointments are felt when the horse doesn't drink... but often times I question my own motivation that perhaps it all arose due to self serving reasons instead of any ounce of true compassion for the horse.

Humans are the most powerful beings on earth due to intelligence, skills, etc,... and it is sad that so much more harm is done collectively than good. Yet with that said, there are enough good around and available but we do not utilize it as a source of influence. Good water and grass is available but somehow our negative tendencies draw us all to eat and drink crap!




DSFriend

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2012, 06:15:15 PM »
We can't force the horse to drink but we can show him where the water is. When the time comes when he is thirsty he will know how to get there and drink to quench his  thirst.

When a person's mind is close and stubborn, he will not be able to accept the dharma. However, we should skilfully let them be aware of the dharma and plant dharma seeds into them. They may not be able to accept it but when sufferings arise, they will realized that dharma is useful.

Dear PGdharma

Appreciate this practical advice... as sufferings will certainly be experienced by us all and not that we wished it upon anyone. If we can see sufferings coming for a child or someone junior than us if they don't cultivate positive attitudes in life, I'm sure someone else can see sufferings coming for us too who are more advanced than us.

May our Lord Protector Dorje Shugden help hold back our negative forces as we engage in dharma to change the course of our lives.

valeriecheung

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2012, 02:19:16 PM »
Its possible to force someone to do something unlike if attack one weakness, but its necessary to do so because this temporary result won't last long or no happiness arise.

Same things if unbale to change one stubborn mind even after long explanation, pligrimage trip, story sharing, books or etc.. then one still not accept this proven is less merit. In spiritual way, maybe the best things is to do some puja or mantra recitation dedicate some merit to one. In addition try to find some way one interest to attract his interest related with dharma for one to earn good karma or merit , slowly i think situation will improve. This will need a lot of patience and love.

Midakpa

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2012, 06:44:47 PM »
I think if a person lacks merit, even if he finds himself in front of a temple, he will not enter it. Even if he sees a Buddha, he will only see an ordinary person. In "Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand", there is a quote from the "Essence of Nectar":

"As long as you are not free of the evil of the veil of karma and obscurations,
Even if all the buddhas actually came to you,
You haven't the good fortune to see their supreme bodies adorned
with the marks and signs;
You only see what appears to you at present."

In Pabongka Rinpoche's Lamrim, there is the story of the bandit chief who couldn't see the Shakyamuni statue in the Lhasa cathedral. He was told to purify his karma and obscurations. After making offerings, and doing circumambulations and prostrations, he still could not see the statue but he was able to see the butterlamps.

One needs merit to be able to meet the dharma. If you want the horse to drink the water, it has to purify its karma and obscurations.

ratanasutra

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2012, 08:45:21 PM »
I will say that as long as we do the best for someone by showing sample, talk, consult, advice etc then there is no regret after that even that person will change or not as it out of our control.
They might not change now, but because they knew about it so perhap in the near future they change their mind to get it.

Same go to the guru/teacher, i believe that all the teacher do wish that all their students will gain enlightenment or at lease progress in their spiritual practice. And even they are not achieve in anything but guru still never give up and still show and teach them a way whatever opportunity have as every moment the karma is change, by talking, showing perhap is create a cause or open the imprint seed to continue.
 

rossoneri

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2012, 03:25:28 AM »
Like the metaphorical explanation of the 'horse' being us. We can create a cause for them by presenting the Holy Dharma or introduce some basic information regarding Buddhism but because of ignorance, ego, pride and with i know more attitude, they are blinded from it.  Buddha Himself could be near by and because of lacking of merits, they failed to realise his existence. Whatever we said or do they'll simply brushed off and at times ended up arguing or moving further in distance. We might call it a wrong timing but i felt it is due to their own karma lacking the merits be able to receive the teachings of Buddha.

It's so sad and hope one day they will realise the importance of Dharma.

Benny

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Re: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2012, 02:34:53 PM »
"Surely we can force someone to do something, through law, through intimidation, there are many ways to force someone to do something, but that is not the solution is it?

There are examples of modern societies where religion is "forced" onto people, and if it is not religion, it is the appearance of religion: forbidden to eat this or that, forbidden to wear this or that, obligation to wear this or that, obligation to pray, obligation to go to prayer hall, etc...
Doesn't sound much like religion to me...

Does it really benefit people when they engage in outward religious practice when they do it out of obligation?
Does this make them resent the tradition they are obligated into?
Or is it that they do create merit, even though they do things by force?"  quote by Hope Rainbow.

I am in total agreement with what Hope Rainbow said above. In today's day and age whereby people are spoilt by choices available to them it is almost impossible to force anything on anyone let alone religion.

History has shown us that religious wars were waged ,whereby millions of innocent lives were sacrificed in the name of upholding one religion against another. Both sides mutually labelling the other as infidels worthy of being killed. All of humanity had been constantly threaten by this since the Dawn of civilisation up till today !

We always ask why ? Why fight wars over religion ? Well take a look at this forum topic and see the differing mindsets and we will know where the seeds of war are sown. We have no right to force a horse or any being for that matter , to drink water if it does not wish to.                 




of spreading a particular religion.