dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on May 02, 2011, 10:08:34 PM
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
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It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
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What does the original Tibetan text really say? Below are two versions, differentiated only by English punctuation.
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama, using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
The text of the second version, starting from "or else..." is totally different in what it says, eventhough only one punctuation mark was changed into a comma. That version speaks about those Gelukpas, or people who think they are practicing Shugden and therefore think they are "good gelukpas", but who nevertheless take sides between Dalai and Panchen.
The current translation is not clear at all in what it says. What does the Tibetan text say? Are there any other translations, or are we relying on a single interpretation?
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I can't read Tibetan so even if I saw it, so I wouldn't be able to draw anything from it. Interpretations of different languages can always be a bit thorny. However, from my personal point of view, reading the gentle nature of HH Trijang Rinpoche from the first part of his biography (I hope the second part will be published soon, admin :)), I am more inclined to think that the interpretation put forward by the translation of Music Delighting is accurate. Also, the statements from the young HH Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche where he does not speak against the Dalai Lama seem to echo the same sentiment.
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What does the original Tibetan text really say? Below are two versions, differentiated only by English punctuation.
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama, using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
The text of the second version, starting from "or else..." is totally different in what it says, eventhough only one punctuation mark was changed into a comma. That version speaks about those Gelukpas, or people who think they are practicing Shugden and therefore think they are "good gelukpas", but who nevertheless take sides between Dalai and Panchen.
The current translation is not clear at all in what it says. What does the Tibetan text say? Are there any other translations, or are we relying on a single interpretation?
I understand where you are getting at Zhalmed Pawo but I would still not read it as you do. I don't read Tibetan and can't give an accurate translation of its meaning. However, I think that the meaning is pretty obvious about not taking sides of either Dorje Shugden or Dalai Lama / Panchen Lama to criticize the other. This is the only meaning I can read and it makes sense because it is in line with the Buddha's teachings and also the exemplary and courageous young Choktrul Trijang Rinpoche. I find this interpretation more Dharmic and a challenge to our usual ordinary ways.
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If we see this paragraph in the whole context of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s “Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors”, there can be no doubt that there is only one version. The version is as Mana has so clearly stated.
It is clear and unmistakable that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche criticizes those, who cannot be both fiercely supportive of Dorje Shugden as a Dharmapala for our times and (at the same time) greatly respectful of the Dalai Lama, as people who are narrow minded.
His faith and trust in, and devotion to the Dharmapala Dorje Shugden throughout his entire life and his great love and respect for the Dalai Lama (as can be clearly seen in his beautiful autobiography – “The Illusory Play”) also show us that what he says in this paragraph cannot be equivocal in meaning and intent.
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I prostrate to all the wise Masters!
Without mincing words, HH Trijang Rinpoche, points out our delusions clearly and directly - attachment to "friends" and hatred towards our "enemies". As long as we brand people in either ways, we shall not see things as they are and inadvertently create the wrong causes for the happiness we look for.
As taught in the sevenfold cause and effect in the generation of the mind of bodhichitta - before one can even begin on the first cause of recognizing all sentient beings as one's mother one must develop equanimity.
I too had taken side. It's easy to brand people who don't agree with us as foes and vice versa.
I'm also guilty of criticizing people who don't make a stand as "sitting on the fence". After reading the articles posted on this site giving unbias views, I now realized how wrong and childish I had been. Instead of criticizing others, I should be more critical of myself.
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I prostrate to all the wise Masters!
Without mincing words, HH Trijang Rinpoche, points out our delusions clearly and directly - attachment to "friends" and hatred towards our "enemies". As long as we brand people in either ways, we shall not see things as they are and inadvertently create the wrong causes for the happiness we look for.
As taught in the sevenfold cause and effect in the generation of the mind of bodhichitta - before one can even begin on the first cause of recognizing all sentient beings as one's mother one must develop equanimity.
I too had taken side. It's easy to brand people who don't agree with us as foes and vice versa.
I'm also guilty of criticizing people who don't make a stand as "sitting on the fence". After reading the articles posted on this site giving unbias views, I now realized how wrong and childish I had been. Instead of criticizing others, I should be more critical of myself.
What a powerful realization. What a powerful post. Your post has impact on me. Thank you. I agree with what you say.
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
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It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
However it is read, it is clear that Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche would not want us to criticize His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Even the current Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche is an open Shugden practitioner but does not disparage the Dalai Lama or speak against him. Trijang Rinpoche's website has a picture of the current Trijang Rinpoche and Dalai Lama meeting. The message of even the current Trijang Rinpoche is continue your Shugden practice but do not disparage the Dalai Lama.
TK
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His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche composed a whole volume on Shudgen in order to preserve the lineage after he is gone. The practices, rituals, lineage, history are all in this volume. He knew that obstacles for Dorje Shugden's practice will arise after all the great elite senior masters like himself have passed away. While he was alive, no one could attempt to destroy Shugden's lineage. Therefore he warned us for the future back when he was alive to respect His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. He warned us when he was alive knowing later, the ban (obstacle) would arise temporarily. Dalai Lama and Shugden would be working together hand in hand to make Shugden's practice/Buddha Dharma simultaneously grow contrary to outer appearances. Trijang Rinpoche exhorted to not criticize Dalai Lama and not criticize Dorje Shugden when the obstacles arose. He was sending a warning for the future (now) from the past. Remember when Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wrote this volume and warning for the future, he had to be skillful as Dalai Lama was around. He could not write too overtly yet his message was/is very clear. Very relevant today. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's attainments and powers of divination were renowned as were his skill and knowledge in disseminating the sacred Dharma. We should trust Trijang Rinpoche in totality.
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Beggars are sometimes not the brightest... I am sorry but I don't understand how one punctuation mark can change the entire meaning of the passage? The meaning is very clear, as Mana and many have already pointed out.
It is very inspiring but actually not surprising to read this from Trijang Rinpoche - this attitude of maintaining one's practice while never speaking out against any lama or practitioner is being upheld very strongly by many, many, many admirable high lamas around the world today.
Let's see a few examples:
You never heard Gangchen Rinpoche speaking out against the Dalai Lama, but he has become very famous throughout the world for his healing and practices. It works in the converse also. Even Lama Zopa, who has chosen to not do the practice, has never spoken a bad word against Dorje Shugden practitioners and remains very respectful.
So the message from Trijang Rinpoche is clear - that whatever "side" you happen to be on, it is to never take sides, to become an "ordinary being" who see aryas also as ordinary beings led by ordinary motivations. It is important for us to always maintain respect for the teachers, no matter how much we don't understand them. This applies in all aspects of Dharma. To start criticising, or taking sides makes our own practice unstable. If we criticise one lama, then it becomes possible for us to criticise another lama, and nothing becomes sacred anymore for ourselves.
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So the message from Trijang Rinpoche is clear - that whatever "side" you happen to be on, it is to never take sides, to become an "ordinary being" who see aryas also as ordinary beings led by ordinary motivations. It is important for us to always maintain respect for the teachers, no matter how much we don't understand them. This applies in all aspects of Dharma. To start criticising, or taking sides makes our own practice unstable. If we criticise one lama, then it becomes possible for us to criticise another lama, and nothing becomes sacred anymore for ourselves.
This is so true and I appreciate reading the quote from Trijang Rinpoche again. I have come across people in my centre who have been criticising lamas for over 20 years. They are much older than me and been in the Dharma for much longer than myself, some even before I was born! But they are still not stable, they still have many excuses for not committing to their practices and they still like to indulge in gossip and lots and lots of chatter about lamas, centres, practitioners and practices all around the country. I had a lady tell us one day that she had to leave teachings halfway because she had to go to attend another lama that happened to be visiting town!
I think that people slip into criticising lamas because it becomes a far easier option than committing and doing your practices with all your heart and life and "sacrifices". It is easier to sit on the fence forever and just criticise - if there is something wrong with one side, or one lama, then it justifies not having to do your practice. It gets "harder" when you " choose a side" - then there is commitment and no more escape.
So Trijang Rinpoche speaks on so many levels with this quotation - not just with the Dorje Shugden issue, but in all our modern dilemmas where people shop around for teachers and change their commitments around like accessories.
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I like the "message from the past for the future" concept...
personally, while I do of course believe that Trijang Rinpoche did mean for us to not disparage the Dalai Lama nor Dorje Shugden, what is the worst that can happen if Trijang Rinpoche did not mean it that way? The worst case scenario is that I did not think badly of the Dalai Lama. How bad is that?
When i tell some of my Dharma friends that some Shugden practitioners are not against the Dalai Lama, they actually want to listen and understand, because they heard that all Shugden practitioners hate the Dalai Lama and want to kill him! Before i came to this website, I also thought not very Buddhist thoughts about the Dalai Lama although I felt deep inside that it wasn't right to feel this way. So when this website explained a different way of looking at things, supported by what Trijang Rinpoche said, it made me feel much better about my practice. Perhaps the different ways of looking at this issue is part of the 84,000 ways too - because of all our different minds.. I just know that this feels right for me and I'm very grateful for that.
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Honestly, I do not believe that any Buddhist teachings and Dharma will ever teach us to continue loving our friends and families and persist in hating our enemies and exclude strangers throughout all our lives. Nor do I believe that Buddha's words and Dharma will ever encourage us to pick sides and continue holding onto our preferred sides, like our own attachments.
It would indeed be very strange for the teachings to encourage us to become more narrow-minded and limited in our own views. Just my personal observation of how Buddhism has actually improved people I know and 'widened' their perspectives, not the around way around. After all, when our views and minds are open, we do become less and less petty. :)
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I think the message is pretty clear from Trijang Rinpoche, and the message is for those who are shugden practitioners , to continue the practice but do not speak againist or disparage the Dalai Lama. This is indeed what a buddhist should do, buddhists accept and respect others' religions, so let alone be it a worship of a different deity within our buddhist world.
I have only noticed since the Dalai Lama embarked on the DS ban, all the high lamas who are Shugden practiitioners have been either practising Shugden quietly at the back or they chose not to practice for a particular reason. In any of the cases, I have not heard anything bad said from them either against the Dalai Lama or other shugden practitioners.
In fact these high lamas who are Shugden practitioners have shown so much intergrity that I find propitiating Dorje Shugden as my Dharma protector very comforting.
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
I thought about what Trijang Rinpoche said about ordinary being beings. It made me realize that only ordinary beings who have no attainments and realization will have attachment to friends and aversion towards "foes", will take sides and criticize the other party who do not concur with them. That explains why we never hear high Lamas criticizing others even if they are being put down down, ostracized and put in very difficult situations. They endure all injustice and criticism with patience and fortitude.
It behoves us to follow their examples as Trijang Rinpoche has clearly stated that if we act under the influence of our attachment and hatred, we are creating the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future. I find this scary as I am definitely guilty of it.
I have taken sides and criticized others who have different views than me. I realize how wrong and childish I have been. What Kurava said about not seeing things as they are and creating the wrong causes for the happiness we seek as long as we brand people really makes me take a step back and take stock of how I see things and act upon them.
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Between the world of friends, strangers and enemies - I believe, we all have a wider world of strangers than friends and enemies. And it becomes all too easy to not feel any sympathy for strangers - the people we do not know, have not met and may not likely meet at all. Hence, it is not difficult to for completely disregard strangers. The same may apply for our enemies. But because we know them to be our enemies, we harbour greater dislike for them and an even deeper disregard for them. At the end of the day, we only seem to relate to and care for our friends.
This is precisely what has occurred and been displayed by the ban - not because of HHDL's action to ban it but our own reactions to it and how we seem to perpetuate in those wrong actions and wrong views. We have alienated others as much as they have outcasted us - using the ban to separate us all further, causing a greater divide because we each are under the influence of our own attachment and hatred.
We are and have been guilty of using one or the other as a reason NOT to admire the other and speak badly about either. We are and have been acting in such ordinary ways, due to our ordinary perception and capabilities.
Collectively, we create the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering - not just in the future, but even in the present. For ourselves and for others. I do stress the word: collectively.
They and us equals collectively. We perpetuate our own sufferings together. Not them to us, or us to them. It is the same. Doesn't matter who started the fire or what started the fire, no one is working hard to put out the fire but more concerned with adding fuel to the fire.
Hence, yes, the narrow minded are all of us. Those who do not understand include each and every one of us.
When do we show that we understand? When we act differently. When we hold neither to be responsible for our own pain, suffering and karma. When we do not assign any responsibility to someone else or to another group to remove that pain, suffering and karma. Above all, we do not continue to engage in activities that will add onto the bad karma that we all already carry in varying degrees.
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" either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
Instead of spending time over analysing something to look for fault... why don't we spend our time analysing ourselves and see if we have fault? But I guess this is the type of conduct we ordinary beings get caught far too often and lose the real focus of it all.
I don't hear Dorje Shugden taking trance saying negative things about the Dalai Lama, or even saying that the Dalai Lama is wrong...instead I have heard that DS on many accounts have also advice us the same as the previous Trijang Rinpoche.
Like what beggar said:
"You never heard Gangchen Rinpoche speaking out against the Dalai Lama, but he has become very famous throughout the world for his healing and practices. Even Lama Zopa, who has chosen to not do the practice, has never spoken a bad word against Dorje Shugden practitioners and remains very respectful."
I think the line above line is extremely clear and does not need to be checked and analysed deeply... bottom line is we should not hurt our enemies. Instead lets do a self check on ourselves and see how much anger, hatred and attachment we have. Lets not even talk about the Dalai Lama, how many of us when being wronged get defensive immediately?
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
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It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.
Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru. We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru. This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.
If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general?
If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment. If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
**************************
It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.
Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru. We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru. This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.
If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general?
If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment. If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.
Good point Dondrup! I like what you said and that would mean having the 'Greater Picture' (or what some of us here are talking) is actually in line with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is saying. Why do I say that? I say that because if Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is asking us Dorje Shugden practitioners not to lose faith in the Dalai Lama, that would mean that we have to take our mind training one step further and that is seeing what the Dalai Lama is doing as ultimately beneficial. In fact, it is not even a theory. Dorje Shugden is made tremendously popular throughout the world and especially China because of the Dalai Lama. It is not hard to see that. However, this does not erase the hardship that Dorje Shugden practitioners face but he is merely accelerating our practice. Practitioners who give up Dorje Shugden practice because of the Dalai Lama will give it up anyway due to a variety of other reasons.
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How we can say who right or wrong??? That is no right or wrong!! No matter how good you are, people still criticize...so if Trijiang Rinpoche is wrong, how about Dalai Lama?? My opnion is don't try to be smart because I believe all high Lamas have their own wisdom to do something can benefit all sentient being. They are enlighten being, we are still suffering in samara; so we have no wisdom to adjust they are right or wrong, so better keep quiet and do something more beneficial. I think this more better than open your mouth and criticize who right or who wrong.....
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
**************************
It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.
Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru. We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru. This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.
If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general?
If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment. If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.
This is so true what you say dondrup! Samsara is the planet we live in. There is already enough confusion, distractions and chaos in society, we need not bring this in to our spiritual path. Those who knows better and has the wisdom will realise there is no point in debating. There is much to practice. After all we will be leaving this body, this earth in a short period of time. So why waste it on pointing fingers and figuring out something that will not even help us during the time of death stop us from enlightenment.
I agree that the best is to be clear why we are on our spiritual path... if it for sincere developement, then just focus on Guru devotion. It is as simple as that. Even on a daily basis we cannot successfully eliminate our negative habitualtions and our own suffering... why even bother about what this or that Lama says. Just focus on one Lama, your Lama is good enough. After all are we not here for spiritual development? Surely in the scriptures it did not say we can judge attained beings like HHDL and Kaybje Trijang Rinpoche.
We should not lose the real focus especially during these testing times...
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HHDL and Shugden are both enlightened beings. From Shugden's prayers i can infer that as an enlightened being he wouldnt want us to have hateful views against a monk, much so the Dalai Lama.
But thats just my humble opinion.
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Well said words! Clear, Logical and Straight to the Point.
We are all still stuck in samsara. Unless, we are not in any way interested in getting out in samsara, then we should put more effort into our practice and heed the advice of great masters and our teachers.
No need to add more to the cesspool of bad karma and contaminated views or behaviour that will not help us in leaving samsara but bind us here longer. As much as we have outer samsara, we also have our inner samsara. Both of them require just as much work. But it is our inner samsara that will sentence us to a longer stay in the outer samsara.
Focus on practising on ourselves, first and foremost.
All disparaging views are not helpful nor of any use to us right now if we can't use them to get rid of both our inner and outer samsara.
" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
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It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
All contaminated beings in samsara like humans are attached to people or things or phenomena that they like, adverse to people or things or phenomena that they don’t like and have neutral feelings toward people or things or phenomena that they are indifferent to.
Likewise we notice the same behaviour in supporters and non-supporters of Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. Whatever it is, if we have taken refuge in the Guru and Three Jewels, it is only logical that we have complete faith in the teachings of the Guru. We should have complete devotion and reliance on our Guru. This is because Guru Devotion is the foundation to all realizations and attainments.
If we still do not have complete trust or faith in what Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche had taught and said, then what is the purpose of practising Guru Devotion in particular and Dharma in general?
If we still do not develop equanimity in our minds, there is no way of us attaining full enlightenment. If we still continue to develop attachment, aversion and ignorance in our minds about Dorje Shugden, we will definitely suffer even more in the future. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche’s statement above is so clear about these.
Good point Dondrup! I like what you said and that would mean having the 'Greater Picture' (or what some of us here are talking) is actually in line with Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is saying. Why do I say that? I say that because if Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is asking us Dorje Shugden practitioners not to lose faith in the Dalai Lama, that would mean that we have to take our mind training one step further and that is seeing what the Dalai Lama is doing as ultimately beneficial. In fact, it is not even a theory. Dorje Shugden is made tremendously popular throughout the world and especially China because of the Dalai Lama. It is not hard to see that. However, this does not erase the hardship that Dorje Shugden practitioners face but he is merely accelerating our practice. Practitioners who give up Dorje Shugden practice because of the Dalai Lama will give it up anyway due to a variety of other reasons.
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This is so enlightening.
Yes, as a beginner to all these. i was so confused by actions carried out by the His Holiness The Dalai Lama. Then again, i also don't understand why these reincarnated high attained lama kept such low profile. And what a shame to divide the Sangha community etc ...
At time i did question the Whys on Dalai Lama's actions, and also why a protector can cause so much stir. So who's right and who's wrong? Thankful that I came across this website made me understand more and learning more. Now I realized that His Holiness is not only skillful, it is such noble act for the bigger picture as well as the high lama who would have to go into "hiding" and not getting involved with all the political issues. Imagine the amount of criticism that one lama had to endure?
Of course we are all in it for a bigger picture. I was previous sadden by the Sangha community who "take side", and to me it is really not how a Sangha should behave. Now, it doens't really matter anymore. Seeing how Dorje Shugden's practice had spread over the time and almost now and then we heard news of Shugden statues and chapels popping out everywhere.
I guess the sky is begin to clear.
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If only more people would take the words and advice of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to heart, the Tibetan Buddhist world would be a better place with less conflict, upheaval and unrest. if only more people would listen to Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, junior tutor to His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.
Listen up folks
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This old post brings back so much reminder to us all to keep the faith in both H.H. Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. It is amazing how everything has been foretold by H.H. Trijang Rinpoche in this book in just one simple paragraph he pre-warns us, gives us guidance to protect our minds from falling astray. H.H. Trijang Rinpoche saw all that is going to happen and it is happening right now. It just goes to show how the Enlightened minds works in miraculous way to bring benefit to so so many through skilful means. So it made me realise that all that negative thinking about His Holiness etc...
I do not think it is appropriate because it is not the Dharmic way and how can HHDL be sonsistent in everything about compassion for others and preach about religious harmony in other faiths... but not for Dorje Shugden? That is hypocrisy! And do we really think HHDL is a hypocrite??? Do we really think that HHDL could not have seen the consequences of suffering that will be created... but then stop n think deeper please... a couple of thousand people suffer vs 1billion over benefit from it? Which is better? U do the math. Yes it is like reverse psychology - perhaps it is just so.
Dorje Shugden practitioners who are not the murderers we are so strongly being accused... we need to show the world literally that practicing Dorje Shugden brings peace of mind, gentleness and compassion and not haters even to our worst enemy.... because what is the motivation at the end of the day? What is it based on; attachment, desire, self-righteousness or to benefit others?
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If only more people would take the words and advice of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to heart, the Tibetan Buddhist world would be a better place with less conflict, upheaval and unrest. if only more people would listen to Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang, junior tutor to His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.
Listen up folks
I agree totally with thor. Trijang Rinpoche's advice on the ban is very clear and it is really up to us on whether or not we want to follow it. If everyone followed that approach, I am sure that there would be more peace amongst the Buddhist community and people would advance in their Dharma practice. We should hold on to our lineage Gurus yet not develop bitterness towards the Dalai Lama for banning Dorje Shugden. That is a very Buddhist approach, too.
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Stumbling upon this old but powerful discussion again reminds to not sway away from the right motivation while we ASK LOUDLY for Dorje Shugden Ban to be remove, for no discrimination and hatred amongst Tibetans brothers and sisters.
There is already so few Tibetans, even fewer in exile community, they should not be fighting and going against each other. What CTA has done is really destroying their own people yet they are asking the world to hear their cause for a FREE TIBET and HUMAN RIGHTS? They don't even understand what that is... cos if they did they would not do this, instigate hate and violence amongst their own people, creating disharmony.
Saw this latest video online... looks like Tibetans in Tibet have more freedom to speak about Dorje Shugden and do their practice! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204649826187938&set=vb.1303894275&type=2&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10204649826187938&set=vb.1303894275&type=2&theater)
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Thank you for bringing up this powerful discussion.
Whether HH Dalai Lama is an enlightened being is not for us to judge. With all the inconsistent from HH Dalai Lama (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoaoQPbTC6g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoaoQPbTC6g) ), CTA should really think if the reasons on banning Dorje Shugden will affect HH Dalai Lama’s long life and the free Tibetan cause is real. Do they want to follow the ban blindly? If they believe in HH Dalai Lama, they should follow the compassion that he has taught and be compassion to all Dorje Shugden people and not encouraging any death threat or violence or hit list that causing more hatred and disharmony among the Tibetan. Eg : http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/shocking-letter/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/shocking-letter/) & http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/tibetan-leadership-publishes-hit-list/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/tibetan-leadership-publishes-hit-list/)
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i believe the previous Trijang Rinpoche clearly state that no matter what happen, be steadfast in our DS practice and continue to uphold the Ganden tradition and trust in Protector no matter what happens, even if we are practicing Dorje Shugden, we must keep an open mind and not take side. Which means we must not criticize H.H Dalai Lama or either way.
Clearly Trijang Rinpoche knew this will happen, and this statement is to remind us be open but yet be diligent in our practice, there are reason why this ban was enforce, it may be for a bigger cause for the spread of Dorje Shugden. From what we all see today, Dorje Shugden Practice has spread far and wide, many more people has benefited from the practice, eventhough the ban has cause so much suffering to the Tibetan community who practice Dorje Shugden.
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So much truth in the worlds of His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche.We should practice equanimity all the time and not just in studies and in our prayers. This ban is the best opportunity for us to practice equanimity. Just like in our refuge and boddhicitta visualization, we place our loved ones beside and behind us, our enemies in front and all sentient beings surrounding us, that is we placed the 3 poisons of attachments, anger and ignorance around us and visualize it receiving the same blessings and purifications from the merit field; we shall treat the pro and anti shudgen the same with love and compassion; what more the holy beings like the Dalai Lama and Trijang Rinpoche, we should not criticise.
With folded hands!
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We should work towards lifting the ban by highlighting the factual ie the atrocities and the ban on freedom of religion, supporting the holy Shar Gaden and Serpom Monateries, supporting the work of old and young Lamas like Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche, Yongyal Rinpoche, Gangchen Rinpoche etc, organisations like the NKT and this site; without disparaging anyone especially the Dalai Lama.
I know it is hard sometimes and with the NKT and ISC going on a "no lie" campaign, it becomes more difficult to not disparage. For me, motivation is important and we need to be mindful of what we say or do all the time even if we have to take to the streets to lift the ban. This is really a Dharma retreat of sort.
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I think I see this as what worked at the time; not to critizise the Dalai Lama back in 1967, if you were a monk trying to practice; two of the greatest masters I have ever known (and both of whom I have attended teachings from) are Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and the currently Dharmakaya, recently passed from Nirmanakaya Shamar Rinpoche. Both did what could be considered critizism of the Dalai Lama (though both are Buddhas, so maybe both are automatically exempt from anything they do being labeled as criticism). However, I think different Buddhas have different activities and train their students in different ways; so I think both are teaching that it is okay, with pure motive, to speak against the Dalai Lama's actions. It's not really criticism to say he isn't likely to be a Buddha either, just as that is not criticism of mother sentient beings generally, rather just an observation.
I don't think we should make excuses to pretend that what Trijang Rinpoche, back in 1967 intended was for no one to talk ever against anything the Dalai Lama does. I don't buy from younger western people that they really respect the Dalai Lama and do the Shugden practice; that doesn't seem likely, given how the Dalai Lama has spoken against the practice so vehemently. I do buy that a lot of them wish they could get people to quit criticizing his 'holiness' for whom they have immense devotion (therefore I do not think they are really doing the Shugden practice, since he asked them not to).... but they like to find ways to get everyone to quit talking.
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
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It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
I think another thing to consider is that disparagement is necessarily impure, whereas asking the Dalai Lama to stop lying, or saying that he is lying (like Geshe Kelsang did) is with a pure motive of bodhichitta; therefore it is not really disparagement. We need the Dorje Shugden practice for some of us (a lot of us) to become Buddhas; not everyone understands this, and it is not their business. However, when the Dalai Lama says one thing to the west and enacts a ban he says isn't a ban etc., it's just a magical display of pure bodhichitta motives to tell him to stop lying. The rest of the world doesn't understand our views anyway;holding peaceful demonstrations against someone who is not ACTING like a Buddha is fine; we are not disparaging him, just trying to help all living beings.
Taking something Trijang Rinpoche said in 1967 as the unchanging way to behave, and suggesting that saying anything against the Dalai Lama is disparagement, to me is simply a way to silence people's voices; lamas may not generally say things against each other; this is to show a good example (the general one we should follow). However, enlightened masters such as Geshe Kelsang Gyastso and Shamar Rinpoche have in the first case stated that the Dalai Lama was lying and in the second case told the Dalai Lama to stay out of the internal affairs of his school. I don't see either as disparaging, but rather since they both have pure motives, as helping all living beings.
If a person sees the Dalai Lama as a Buddha, that is fine, and sees him teaching in reverse, is fine, which to me means the person still acts normally, and tells him to stop lying.
It seems a bit of a stretch to me to act as though we are not having faith in Trijang Rinpoche if we say anything against the Dalai Lama, but that the Dalai Lama has faith in Trijang Rinpoche after turning agaisnt him and disavowing the practice. I think what Trijang Rinpoche said needs to be put in context of 1967; he is not making a general universal truth like .... cultivate compassion for all living beings.... he is giving specific advice for what was happening at the time. Like if we ask a lama, should we cross that river over there, and he says yes, does that mean that 50 years later we need to cross that same river, or maybe we are on a different route, or maybe there is some reason why it would no longer be safe to cross that river.
To me, trying to get people to think they have no faith in Trijang Rinpoche if they say anything against the actions of the Dalai Lama is a misunderstanding of dharma; saying something doesn't mean disparaging if the motive is pure. Also, it doesn't really apply to some of us; since some of us never had faith in the Dalai Lama anyway.
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The previous Trijang Rinpoche wrote the book Music Delighting The Ocean of Protectors, knowing in advance, the future the disputes of DS may bring to create discord amongst Buddhist. He pre-warn of the impending future of what may come and will happen.
He wrote "Dalai Lama and Shugden would be working together hand in hand to make Shugden's practice/Buddha Dharma simultaneously grow contrary to outer appearances. Trijang Rinpoche exhorted to not criticize Dalai Lama and not criticize Dorje Shugden when the obstacles arose."
I agree to take the middle way of not to criticize the works of the Dalai Lama and Shugden's for my view is of the common, and am unenlightened. All I hope to pray for is to bring down the ban without violence and hatred for the sake of Tibetans and practitioners alike.
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Thank you for sharing this article. It's interesting how everyone forgot about this equanimity part of the equation and needs reminding. If we start disparaging the high Lamas, will we know when to stop? I doubt many of us are so attained that we know the subtle differences in concepts and teachings that we are able to say who is right or wrong. So, back to the drawing board - none of the 8 worldly concerns!
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Again, I don't think pointing out that someone is lying is disparaging them, not when the motive is pure.
So for example, it is Geshe Kelsang that said that the Dalai Lama is lying. If we cannot take sides, are we to say Geshe-la is wrong? By logic you might be saying we are? But somehow or other it's fine if the Dalai Lama himself says whatever he wants.
So for me, this is the problem of having been in the political position since the 5th Dalai Lama recognition to the present 14th one; these sorts of arguements where we take one line and say oh that guy is knowing the future so always we can never say anything against the Dalai Lama, but it is okay if the Dalai Lama says things against what Trijang Rinpoche said.... well, that is just a double standard based on politics.
So, yes, Trijang Rinpoche knows the future, as in my opinion does Geshe Kelsang Gyastso. I think it would make sense that sometimes lamas say things in a certain context, like of the time they said it, not as a universal truth that we must continue for generations to come.
With the example I gave before of the river, we ask for instance, a Buddha emanation should we cross this river?
He says yes, this river is good to cross, so we do.
Then, years later, when he is in his next body, and while there are robbers etc. in front of the river, plowing on across the river, when maybe by then the conditions had changed, wouldn't make sense. Yes, Trijang RInpoche is omniscient, but that doesn't mean he thinks we are. So, maybe we could cross the river for the next 30 years, or something, but then by the time I am worried about it in my next life, there is a bridge or a better route or we've left Tibet.... conditions change. So, to do what he is saying at the time, back in the 1960s okay--- on an advise like that--- this trying to force people to follow one line a lama said when we (in many cases) weren't even born, and don't have full context of the situation doesn't really make a lot of sense.
I think it is okay to tell the Dalai Lama to stop lying, because Geshe Kelsang says the Dalai Lama is lying, so for me he is showing right activity of acting normally to the Dalai Lama; we still live in the world; if the Dalai Lama were a Buddha, then why would it bother him if people did not see him as one? Other Buddhas are not upset by this? It is politics to say we need to always listen to what one guy says, and we can't say anything against him, and we will take things out of context by other high Rinpoches to shut people down so that they won't say anything against them. It's an old political trick of the Gelugpa school since the time of the 5th, nothing more.
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The reasons that Dalai Lama imposed on this ban is really unknown at this stage. Deep down, i still believe that Bodhisattva have their way to works things out. To get things done. Thus, as practitioner of Dorje Shugden. I truly believe we should not disparage Dalai Lama. But to understand this nature of ban, and to get to know more on Dorje Shugden.
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" But some who are narrow minded, not understanding this point, consider this Dharmapala to be like an ordinary worldly being and, with supposed faith in the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama, disparage him; or else they indeed admire this great Dharmapala but criticize the Dalai Lama or Panchen Lama. Using either one as a reason not to admire the other and speaking badly about either in any way is the conduct of an ordinary being who, under the influence of attachment and hatred, just tries to help friends and hurt enemies; it obscures the increase of these great holy Aryas' deeds and creates the karmic cause to experience unbearable suffering in the future."
- Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice in Music Delighting The Ocean Of Protectors:, 1967
**************************
It is obvious here His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche wants us not to criticize Dalai Lama. If we can follow, practice and adhere to the practices as written in MUSIC DELIGHTING THE OCEAN OF PROTECTORS, then why be selective. Why only pick and choose what we wish to follow and or not believe. Everything composed in this text by the saintly Trijang Rinpoche must be respected otherwise we are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong. Same as what Dharamsala is saying about him. Dharamsala is saying he is wrong about Shugden being beneficial. We are saying Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dalai Lama. Either way, Trijang Rinpoche becomes wrong. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong and we continue to disparage the Dalai Lama, then we are contradicting Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's advice to us. Then how will our practice bear fruit?
Mana
This is a good reminder of our motivation in the Dorje Shugden quest. Is it spiritual, dharmic or cathartic? If it is the latter, then, our fight to lift the ban comes from our selfish desires that are ruled by ignorance, anger and hatred. We will direct our inner turmoil against the Dalai Lama by finding faults in him, making him our enemies as forewarned by Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. But if we operate from a selfless stand, our words, actions and thoughts will have a penetrative effect in achieving a balanced outcome for all parties involved. Looking at the current state of affairs, something is still amiss. :o Therefore, never forsake our Dharma practice at all times. :)
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This is a good reminder in those of who want to defend the Dalai Lama's every move with something that Trjiang RInpoche said in 1967; what is our motive in the Dorje Shugden quest? Well, it seems an odd question, since Dorje Shugden practitioners have as their motive helping preserve the practice to help all living beings be free from suffering.
It's like if someone wanted to take the Avalokiteshvara practice away, and said we were worshipping demons (like a lot of Christains do about Buddhism generally); we need the practice of Avalokiteshvara, just like we need the practice of Dorje Shugden, to help all living beings.
Regardless of what people have heard, there is nothing about harming anyone (including the physical/mental well being of the Dalai Lama or shortening his life). It's not like we go around trying to inflict harm.
but just because some people don't like a practice or don't understand what would motivate us to defend the practice, doesn't make the practice less valid. If you would ask Fundamenalist Christains, or a lot of Christians, everybody but the Christians are going to hell (and they think it is forever) for even believing that Buddha Shakyamuni is good. Then we have people who say oh well don't see the Buddha Dorje Shugden as a Buddha; and we have people who say, we will go to the lower realms for doing this practice, etc. Look, if you see the Dalai Lama as a Buddha, then you get the blessings of the Buddha. If you don't though, but you see someone else as a Buddha, then you still get the blessings of the BUddha.
I don't think we should take Trijang Rinpoche's words in 1967 out of context of the time; also, he was primarily addressing an audience that was deeply encsonsed in the middle of monestaries; what he said at the time applied at the time.
I know Geshe Kelsang Gyatso did not get bad karma by mentioning that the Dalai Lama was lying; just an observation from a Buddha, the other guy is lying (who knows if the Dalai Lama is a BUddha or not, okay, but either way Geshe-la's view would be perfect okay). Also, I don't really understand how we would need such cautioning on our motives as devoted Shugden practitioners--- I am not sure why so many bloggers on this site take as an a priori truth that we all ever followed the Dalai Lama. Or that we would believe him more than say.... Barack Obama, George Bush...? He is a political leader; if you see him as a Buddha that is fine, but why should we be concerned with what others think of him?
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If we start disparaging the high Lamas, will we know when to stop?
Which ”high lamas”? The evil terrorist ”dalai”?
And then, if we start deifying evil terrorists, will we know when to stop?
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If we start disparaging the high Lamas, will we know when to stop?
Which ”high lamas”? The evil terrorist ”dalai”?
And then, if we start deifying evil terrorists, will we know when to stop?
We aren't disparaging high lamas, just observing that they are sometimes doing inappropriate behavior. Disparagment is really a different thing, based on negative emotions. Saying for example we must have equanimity with the motive of making Dorje Shugden followers be silent and not question the Dalai Lama is not a pure motive. Observing that something that is harming Buddhism and Buddhists in this modern era, now, rather than say 1967.... at any rate with a very pure motive, is different.
Look, there is no a priori truth that the Dalai Lama is a Buddha, okay. If he really were a Buddha, then actually there would be no reason for everyone to be policing whether we say anything against him or not--- in Buddhism we generally don't proseletize, because it can backfire and turn people away from the Buddha. I wish people who liked a certain teacher (the DL is who) could remember that if they want people to like their lama that they should try being like.... non-dogmatic.... they are trying to force us to like this guy and see him as a Buddha.... well--- goodness.... I am not trying to force anyone to see Dorje Shugden, Barack Obama, Geshe Kelsang, either Karmapa, etc. as a Buddha but if you happen to find the Buddhas from that list and start praying to the ones that are, well that's good, and I'm saying mantras for that. But if I force you, then what good would that do? In this regard I see the people who try to make me say this guy is a Buddha as actually causing the opposite to happen...
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We aren't disparaging high lamas,
Many criminals would feel disparaged, if compared with the evil dalai.
But as far as extremely evil criminals such as terrorists are concerned, they would not feel disparaged if compared with the evil dalai. Rather, they would feel proud of the company, as Shoko Asahara did.
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It is amazing that Trijang Rinpoche has already foresee this controversy in 1967. And it is also consistent that the current Trijang Rinpoche practices the same as what the previous incarnation did.
I wonder why CTA has not ban Trijang Rinpoche and his previous works. It is obvious that the current Trijang Rinpoche still practices Shugden. In fact, with the current "method" Rinpoche is using, it is obvious that the practice is growing. Why so selective? Even with the previous physical harm they have sent to hurt Trijang Rinpoche's students, why is CTA so underground about this when it comes to anything related to Trijang Rinpoche. It is because they have no way to hide the TRUTH! Or is it because by openly criticising Trijang Rinpoche consistently will make HH looks like a joke cause Trijang Rinpoche was after all the tutor to HH.