Author Topic: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student  (Read 11801 times)

Big Uncle

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De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« on: June 22, 2012, 04:23:20 PM »
This is the story of Lama Osel - The official Tulku of Lama Yeshe. Why do you think he left FPMT to pursue film-making?

http://godknowswhat.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/de-incarnation-from-lama-to-film-student/

23 years ago a Spanish baby boy was recognised by the Dalai Lama and other important Tibetan lamas to be a reincarnation (tulku) of a well known Lama called Thubten Yeshe. His story was widely reported and received wider attention as it happened to coincide with the release of a Holywood blockbuster called The Golden Child (starring Eddie Murphy!) which was based around a story about a young reincarnated lama.

After a short flurry of media attention the boy, named Osel Hita Torres, dropped back into the relative obscurity of the Tibetan Buddhist tradition. Within the tradition he remained an important figure however and was sent to a monastery in India to receive a traditional Tibetan education alongside tutoring in Western subjects. High hopes were held by Lama Yeshe’s followers that Osel would take up the mantle of leadership vacated by Lama Thubten Yeshe and usher in an era of greater integration between Tibetan Buddhism and the Western world.

These hopes were rather soundly dashed a few days ago however when Osel gave an interview to a Spanish newspaper El Mundo in which he stated that he was now agnostic and more interested in cinematography than being a spiritual figurehead. He also spoke critically of his upbringing describing how:

At 14 months I was recognized and taken to India. I dressed in a yellow hat, I sat on a throne, people worshipped me … I was taken away from my family and put in a medieval situation in which I suffered a lot. It was like living a lie.


Extracts of his interview appeared the following day in an article in the Guardian, which was featured on it’s front page, and from there the story has spread widely (see examples here and here).

Lama Thubten Yeshe was one of the earliest promoters of Tibetan Buddhism to Westerners and was considered to be rather unorthodox by his Tibetan peers. His approach proved attractive to Westerners however and he gained a considerable amount of followers and was eventually able to found an extensive network of Buddhist centres which he called ‘The Foundation for the Preservation of Mahayana Buddhism’.

It was this foundation which it was hoped Osel would take control over, and up until yesterday their website contained a glowing and detailed account of his early childhood and the various signs that had lead to his recognition as Lama Yeshe’s reincarnation. This account has now been removed along with any reference to Osel but thanks to the wonders of google’s cache (see here) and the ‘way back machine’ the old pages can still be viewed (see here).

The fact that the account has been removed is indicative of the embarrassment that Osel’s decision has caused to the Tibetan Buddhist community and Lama Yeshe’s foundation in particular. It is also rather likely that Osel himself was not expecting his comments to be so widely reported and he is perhaps now regretting granting the interview. This is all just speculation on my part but, even if the reporting is accurate and Osel does harbour genuine resentment for aspects of his upbringing, I sincerely doubt that he had any intention or expectation of creating the negative publicity storm that has followed in the wake of the El Mundo article.

I also expect that the image reported- of a youthful renegade dressed in baggy jeans, quoting Jimmy Hendrix and performing at the Burning Man festival in Las Vegas- is a somewhat exaggerated portrayal of what is, quite likely, just a typical film student. What will be interesting to observe in the coming months and years will be whether Osel truly rejects his upbringing and remains estranged from the Tibetan Buddhist tradition or whether this is a temporary rebellion which will eventually become just another chapter in his spiritual story.

What’s certain however is that this is something of a blackeye to the Tibetan Buddhist community and although no official response has been offered so far, the removal of all reference to him from the Foundation’s website suggests strongly that his comments are not being received with equanimity. The response so far is also rather interesting when compared with statements made around ten years ago in an article written in the Telegraph. Here the reporter asked his tutor and his father what the response would be if Osel chose to abandon his role as a reincarante Lama and take another path, say becoming a famous footballer:

I don’t know.’ Kedge replies. ‘We’re pioneering something that clearly you can pioneer only if you have some vision of the future. We would have to try to be flexible to accommodate something that didn’t necessarily fit into that, but a professional footballer…? I just don’t know.

When I ask his father, Paco, the same question he considers it carefully. ‘I think it is not possible for him to go the wrong way,’ he says at last. ‘Whatever he chooses, even if we don’t understand it immediately, he will have chosen it because it is the best way to help people. This is what Lama wants.’

It’s also interesting to compare Osel’s reported assesment of the restrictions of his upbinging against those of his former tutor:

Osel

Yesterday he bemoaned the misery of a youth deprived of television, football and girls. Movies were also forbidden – except for a sanctioned screening of The Golden Child starring Eddie Murphy, about a kidnapped child lama with magical powers. “I never felt like that boy,” he said.



By 18, he had never seen couples kiss. His first disco experience was a shock. “I was amazed to watch everyone dance. What were all those people doing, bouncing, stuck to one another, enclosed in a box full of smoke?”

His Tutor

But is the boy being deprived? ‘Of what?’ Kedge asks: mindless television programmes? Pop music? Of normal family life, perhaps. ‘But any child who was getting the input, the education, the breadth of experience of people around him that Lama is getting would be doing supremely well, and getting the most phenomenal basis for leading their life.’

Whatever the eventual outcome of this situation (and at the minute the outcome is far from certain) I think this case is an excellent illustration of the kind of problems encountered when religions are exported out of their native habitat and into an unfamiliar setting.

There were also earlier warnings that this unusual situation could backfire when, for instance, Osel’s education became a bone of contention between his parents as their marriage disolved in divorce with his mother reportedly complaining his education was making him too Tibetan.

With all that being said, it is worth bearing in mind that not even all Tibetan Lama’s embrace their ‘predestined’ spiritual lifestyle; the infamous playboy 6th Dalai Lama being one notable example.

UPDATE: The articles about Osel have been restored to the Foundation website and a new message from Osel has been added wherein he accuses the media reports of being exaggerated and sensationalised and adds the following message of support:

FPMT is doing a great job and Lama Zopa is an immensely special person – very inspiring and a great yogi.

Personally, my job is to find new ways in which to discover the true nature of our being. There is no separation between myself and FPMT – we are all working together in so many aspects and terrains. Humanity is our office. Besides, I don’t really qualify very much in Buddhist studies, because I didn’t finish them, so working together is the clue.

I expected that something like this would happen but I wasn’t expecting it to happen in a day. Regardless, it’s clear that Osel did not intend to harm the Foundation’s image and does not want the Tibetan community to think that he has entirely abandoned them and is not grateful for his upbringing.

BUT… it’s also clear from the comments in the El Mundo article and the comments in the Babylon article (highlighted by Ibex below) that Osel may not be as united with the Tibetan Buddhist tradition as his new statement suggests. It is good for the Foundation that they restored the pages about him though, as simply removing all trace of him after he was reported making negative statements did give a rather bad impression!

Positive Change

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 07:50:37 PM »
It is in interesting account of Lama Osel... however, do we really know the workings of the mind of an attained being such as Lama Yeshe of whom Lama Osel is an incarnation of. After all, to say Lama Osel is not an incarnation of Lama Yeshe would mean HHDL is wrong. That in itself is somewhat of a paradigm.

What I did like was what Lama Osel's father said in response to the Daily Telegraph some 1o years back to a hypothetical question of what the response would be if Osel chose to abandon his role as a reincarante Lama and take another path, say becoming a famous footballer to which his father, Paco, said ‘I think it is not possible for him to go the wrong way. Whatever he chooses, even if we don’t understand it immediately, he will have chosen it because it is the best way to help people. This is what Lama wants.’

It really kind of sums up the faith the father has in son and incarnate Lama. It is such reverence and fortitude in times of "confusion" that we need to dig deep into.

I feel that in a way, the whole issue of the Dorje Shugden ban has similar implications and/or self raised doubts. But if one trusts in, especially HHDL who is none other than Chenrezig himself, then these will eventually melt away. Keep to what we believe in and most of all continue to educated and impart knowledge as that is the only way to cut through ignorance and doubt!

Ensapa

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2012, 01:43:21 AM »
Lama Osel's way of manifestation is a result of a few different things, the first being broken samaya. FPMT centers have been deriding the very Dharma protector Lama Yeshe relied upon, how can you deride your own lama's practice on one hand and then on the other, asks him to return and teach you? That itself does not make any logical sense at all. That's more or less the same as giving the lama a middle finger. It's not too different from that actually. Why want the Lama to return but demand him to manifest the way you want him to and dictate his practice? That is the easiest way to prevent a reincarnation from manifesting as a teaching lama. From the force generated from broken samaya comes obstacles and the Lama's inability to teach even if he really wants to. So who's giving who a black eye? the students giving the teacher a black eye or the other way round? People always have this thinking that the teacher should serve the student and should always follow the students' wishes, and if the teacher does not he's a bad teacher. But from what I know it is the other way round! That's not the 50 verses of Guru devotion says.

Also, why are people so attached to his external appearance and that he must be a lama he must do this and that and this? One thing bad about science in this aspect is that it causes people to be too attached to what they can see to consider as results as opposed to really thinking and picking up all the small and micro signs all the way and form a logical conclusion based on the clues. Since when was it that tulkus have to follow the wishes of the disciples and the general public? Why do we have this kind of set rules to our Gurus? Those are the things that come to mind when i read this article.

Positive Change

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2012, 06:32:29 AM »
Lama Osel's way of manifestation is a result of a few different things, the first being broken samaya. FPMT centers have been deriding the very Dharma protector Lama Yeshe relied upon, how can you deride your own lama's practice on one hand and then on the other, asks him to return and teach you? That itself does not make any logical sense at all. That's more or less the same as giving the lama a middle finger. It's not too different from that actually. Why want the Lama to return but demand him to manifest the way you want him to and dictate his practice? That is the easiest way to prevent a reincarnation from manifesting as a teaching lama. From the force generated from broken samaya comes obstacles and the Lama's inability to teach even if he really wants to. So who's giving who a black eye? the students giving the teacher a black eye or the other way round? People always have this thinking that the teacher should serve the student and should always follow the students' wishes, and if the teacher does not he's a bad teacher. But from what I know it is the other way round! That's not the 50 verses of Guru devotion says.

Also, why are people so attached to his external appearance and that he must be a lama he must do this and that and this? One thing bad about science in this aspect is that it causes people to be too attached to what they can see to consider as results as opposed to really thinking and picking up all the small and micro signs all the way and form a logical conclusion based on the clues. Since when was it that tulkus have to follow the wishes of the disciples and the general public? Why do we have this kind of set rules to our Gurus? Those are the things that come to mind when i read this article.


What you have mentioned here Ensapa is precisely what a lot of people, practitioners included, sometimes fail to understand. These beings that return life after life is for our benefit can only do so if we have the merits to receive it. It is by no means their doing if we do not have the merits to receive the precious teachings. It merely means they need to manifest in different ways or to a point whereby they even leave this life in order to benefit more in a next rebirth.

An example of such a manifestation is in Lama Zopa's health. Surely such an attained being is beyond worldly sickness, then why is Lama Zopa manifesting such illness? It is the cumulative negative karma of his students, student who have broken samaya that is the root cause. If students follow their Lama's advice and transform, surely the Lama will stay as it will benefit more people. But when push comes to shove, the Lama WILL use his or her own life to push their students to change.

More on Lama Zopa here:

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1158.0

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1164.0

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1348.0

dsiluvu

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2012, 08:41:53 AM »
Lama Osel's way of manifestation is a result of a few different things, the first being broken samaya. FPMT centers have been deriding the very Dharma protector Lama Yeshe relied upon, how can you deride your own lama's practice on one hand and then on the other, asks him to return and teach you? That itself does not make any logical sense at all. That's more or less the same as giving the lama a middle finger. It's not too different from that actually. Why want the Lama to return but demand him to manifest the way you want him to and dictate his practice? That is the easiest way to prevent a reincarnation from manifesting as a teaching lama. From the force generated from broken samaya comes obstacles and the Lama's inability to teach even if he really wants to. So who's giving who a black eye? the students giving the teacher a black eye or the other way round? People always have this thinking that the teacher should serve the student and should always follow the students' wishes, and if the teacher does not he's a bad teacher. But from what I know it is the other way round! That's not the 50 verses of Guru devotion says.

Also, why are people so attached to his external appearance and that he must be a lama he must do this and that and this? One thing bad about science in this aspect is that it causes people to be too attached to what they can see to consider as results as opposed to really thinking and picking up all the small and micro signs all the way and form a logical conclusion based on the clues. Since when was it that tulkus have to follow the wishes of the disciples and the general public? Why do we have this kind of set rules to our Gurus? Those are the things that come to mind when i read this article.

After reading this article and reading all of your comments... I find Ensapas questions to ring some logic. Yeah... WHY is there so much expected of Lama Osel/Osel Hitta now. And the expectation is based on the concept and perception of the "student". I thought students are suppose to listen to the teachers, no? Hence you and I are called Students and them Teachers... maybe some people skipped school???

It sounds like something I have heard many times before... that students expect this and that of the teacher just because they are the sponsors or just because the have this huge concept about how a Lama should walk, talk, act, look... this type of misconception is the very down fall of degenerate and broken samaya. If we study the 50 verses of Guru Devotion... it actually says it all and how we as students need to behave and how teachers will do their part. Please go look it up!

I do not think that Osel Hitta is doing anything wrong, it is simply a manifestation of the causes created by the broken samaya of the students. I am not saying that the students should not follow Lama Zopa's implementation of publicly being politically correct and saying they don't practice DS anymore... I am talking about all the back biting, put down and  behaviors that a lot of FPMT students outside of Kopan are doing and they really bring a bad light to their center. And I honestly do not think this type of behavior is encouraged by Lama Zopa hence even Lama Zopa's health took a toll!

Looks like some students of FPMT are more interested in gossiping and judging others rather then practicing Dharma... so yeah why should Osel Hitta go back to all this nonsense?

Big Uncle

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2012, 02:12:59 PM »
So, you guys are saying that Lama Osel is choosing a different path because his previous life students have broken their samaya by abandoning their lineage Protector. And in some cases, they are even deriding the Protector, which is doubly bad. So, that's causing Lama Osel not being able to manifest fully as a Lama? That is an interesting theory and I believe it was mentioned here in the form much earlier on. However, I am just asking to see if there's any other thoughts behind this.

Do you think that the recent health problems that Lama Zopa had would have moved Lama Osel to come back to FPMT? I did see some pictures of him teaching in one of the center but after that, there's nothing much else. Do you think that means there would be further developments to the Dorje Shugden ban? I also noticed that Lama Osel is hanging out with Gomo Tulku. What do you think about that? It is somehow all very interesting to follow the movements of these Tulkus but it makes me wonder if things will continue to remain the same or it will change when the ban gets lifted. If the things do change after the ban is lifted, then its true, it was a samaya issue that held Lama Osel back. Right now, its all a speculation.

Positive Change

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2012, 02:54:05 PM »
So, you guys are saying that Lama Osel is choosing a different path because his previous life students have broken their samaya by abandoning their lineage Protector. And in some cases, they are even deriding the Protector, which is doubly bad. So, that's causing Lama Osel not being able to manifest fully as a Lama? That is an interesting theory and I believe it was mentioned here in the form much earlier on. However, I am just asking to see if there's any other thoughts behind this.

Do you think that the recent health problems that Lama Zopa had would have moved Lama Osel to come back to FPMT? I did see some pictures of him teaching in one of the center but after that, there's nothing much else. Do you think that means there would be further developments to the Dorje Shugden ban? I also noticed that Lama Osel is hanging out with Gomo Tulku. What do you think about that? It is somehow all very interesting to follow the movements of these Tulkus but it makes me wonder if things will continue to remain the same or it will change when the ban gets lifted. If the things do change after the ban is lifted, then its true, it was a samaya issue that held Lama Osel back. Right now, its all a speculation.

Well, I certainly believe the actions of these Tulkus are not without careful thought and reasoning behind. They do not operate out of the normal perceptions as we do, hence it is hard to gauge what the motivation and results that will fruition when the ban is lifted.

Perhaps they each have a role to play... NO! I believe they certainly each have a definitive role to play. Kinda like the various pieces on a chess board. The difference is, like all excellent chess players, they are already at least 5 moves in front of everyone else, probably more.

I think in Lama Osel's case, it is not just the question of the broken samaya alone that has created the causes for Lama Osel to not manifest fully as a Lama. I believe there is another purpose or reason for taking this "unlikely" path before assuming his rightful role upon the lifting of the ban. I am assuming perhaps if he "comes of age" too soon, especially in this day and age, he may be clumped into the "old school" mentality and perhaps his reach to people would lessen. I believe with the exception of HHDL, the mystical tulku whisked away at a tender age and put on a throne to "preach" on suffering and non attachment is a thing of the past.

As much as they want the mystical, they want some "reality" to the figures they see as their hope. Someone that speaks from life experience and from a life they can themselves relate to. An assumption? Perhaps but certainly sounds somewhat logical no?

Vajraprotector

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2012, 04:17:42 PM »
Whether broken samaya or not (although I do think they should not give up the heart practice of the founder of FPMT), younger Tulkus are now seemingly 'giving up' traditional methods of staying in the monastery to teach.

I wouldn't say it only started with younger generation of Tulkus, for example Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche is a famous Buddhist teacher and director of The Cup. He’s modern and challenges Western Buddhists to uphold the unchangable truths of Buddhism while letting go of its cultural trappings.

I extracted some info from an interview with Shambhala Sun below:

Kelly Roberts: In many places in your film, you replace traditional items with modern ones. For instance, the offering bowls on the shrine are replaced by the Coke can and the prayer flags on the roof of the monastery are replaced by a satellite dish. I’m wondering why you did this, because usually you are so worried about Buddhist tradition being corrupted.

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche: This is something that I want to tell my fellow Tibetans and Bhutanese—that modern technology is not a threat to so-called traditional Buddhism. Their society is just beginning to be exposed to the world of the fax, the telephone and the internet. They may feel uncomfortable with change, but the fact is we can no longer go to any place where there is no modern technology.

We cannot avoid technology—it’s already at the doorstep, if not already inside our house. So instead of allowing these things to influence us, the wise thing to do is make use of their power and speed—to be the influence rather than the influenced. We can use the telephone, the web and television to teach, instead of them teaching us. We can use their power and the speed.

Kelly Roberts: You have compared your film to a modern version of a traditional thangka painting or a Buddhist statue.

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche: Every culture has a different way of telling a story, and I felt that maybe I should just tell a story in a Tibetan way.


I also think Gomo Tulku is interesting. 4 years ago he quit the Sera Je Monastery in South India to pursue a music career in Italy. He said in his interview with TIME magazine (he's already in TIME magazine at age 22! http://world.time.com/2011/07/28/beyond-the-dalai-lama-profiles-of-four-tibetan-lamas-in-exile/#ixzz1ydKMjc4Z):

“Being a lama, if that is my role, as a teacher, then at least I need to know what life is.”

He also said that  he is trying “to find myself in a different way and experience life and share it with my people” and to “have that direct interaction instead of being on the throne. I want to come down with you guys, just chill with you guys and talk.”

Today he has created his own sound, one that trades traditional chant for a fusion of contemporary hip-hop and R&B with some slash and pop, and has since released hs first single, “Photograph.”

So may be in this degenerate times, Tulkus have to appear more 'common' with common interests and involved in worldly activities and 'jobs' to connect with the general public, just like what Gomo Tulku said above.

Ensapa

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2012, 04:30:12 PM »
I think interesting at least, that Gomo Tulku did not complete his studies before he branched out to be a rapper. What is more interesting is that information on his previous incarnation is nowhere to be found. There is no story of his previous incarnation other that he also loved ritual music. Weird huh? I just find it very odd that there is almost no information about his previous incarnation. Perhaps what happened to him was too shameful to share? Osel and Gomo hanging out and working together does show us that no matter what and no matter the circumstance, they will still find a way to benefit other even if it is not what their students want or that they use methods that people expect them to use. The broken samaya theory does hold water as one of the methods that causes a lama to manifest radically is if the previous students disobey the direct instructions of the lama, so they effectively cut off the lama's connection with them and the Lama has to think of and use different methods to spread the Dharma. Example in question is the 6th Dalai Lama who manifested as a mahasiddha when Sangye Gyatso went against the great 5th's direct instruction to not go to war with the Dzungkars.

Osel did come back to request for Lama Zopa's long life, but he could not stay for long. I dont think many people in FPMT would take him seriously anyway, now that he has gone against their wishes and expectations. It does show how shallow people are in expecting that a lama should always meet their requirements and expectations, and denounce that lama when he does not.

Big Uncle

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2012, 11:58:47 AM »
I think interesting at least, that Gomo Tulku did not complete his studies before he branched out to be a rapper. What is more interesting is that information on his previous incarnation is nowhere to be found. There is no story of his previous incarnation other that he also loved ritual music. Weird huh? I just find it very odd that there is almost no information about his previous incarnation. Perhaps what happened to him was too shameful to share? Osel and Gomo hanging out and working together does show us that no matter what and no matter the circumstance, they will still find a way to benefit other even if it is not what their students want or that they use methods that people expect them to use. The broken samaya theory does hold water as one of the methods that causes a lama to manifest radically is if the previous students disobey the direct instructions of the lama, so they effectively cut off the lama's connection with them and the Lama has to think of and use different methods to spread the Dharma. Example in question is the 6th Dalai Lama who manifested as a mahasiddha when Sangye Gyatso went against the great 5th's direct instruction to not go to war with the Dzungkars.

Osel did come back to request for Lama Zopa's long life, but he could not stay for long. I dont think many people in FPMT would take him seriously anyway, now that he has gone against their wishes and expectations. It does show how shallow people are in expecting that a lama should always meet their requirements and expectations, and denounce that lama when he does not.

Gomo Tulku's previous life story is nowhere to be found because none of his students who know it has translated it into English. He is very young right now and his current career path does not need the validation of his previous life. Things may change when he grows up and decides to go into teaching and thereby leading a legion of his fans into the Dharma. That could be a possibility. He does have a rather long line of incarnations that tells you he is highly attained.

You know, with regards the 6th Dalai Lama, I heard that he manifested as a divine playboy because he secretly wanted to father a dynasty, similar to the patriarchs of the Sakya tradition in which the father and son takes turn to reincarnate so that the line of rulership does not go through the gap years between incarnations. But alas, it didn't work out as the young Dalai Lama was arrested and was sent up north to be questioned. And so, he passed away in mid-journey and all plans to father a dynasty passed away with that incarnation.

As for Lama Osel, he is not with FPMT, perhaps it is because they have not made amends for the broken samaya and so he is compelled to leave anyway. We shall see what happens when the Dorje Shugden ban goes down in 4-5 years' time. Will FPMT embrace Dorje Shugden? If that happens, will it attract Lama Osel back? We shall see... 

michaela

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2012, 12:48:52 PM »
I am just wondering whether what is happening with Lama Osel is to teach us about impermanence?  There is nothing reliable in this samsaric world.  One minutes you are highly respected with a lot of recognition and wonderous signs, the next minutes they are embarrased with you and tried to remove the traces that you ever existed. 

Can someone speaks their mind freely in accordance with what one believes and trully feels and not in accordance with what is expected?

tsangpakarpo

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2012, 01:19:44 PM »
To me, this is simply a case of a broken samaya. Guru devotion plays a huge role in our tradition.

Quoting the 50 stanzas on the Spiritual Teacher,

Quote
(Stanza 46)
What need is there to say much more. Do whatever pleases your teacher and avoid doing anything he would not like. Be diligent in both of these.

(Stanza 47)
"Actual attainments follow from doing what your teacher likes." This has been said by the Buddha Vajradhara himself. Knowing this, try to please your spiritual teacher fully with all the actions of your body, speech and mind.


It all bows down to this two stanzas. Following the instructions of our Guru is very important in all aspects. Lama Yeshe's reincarnation is who he is now because of his students who broke their samaya with their Guru if I may put it that way. Many of Lama Yeshe's students practiced Dorje Shugden when he was still around. But ever since the ban and him entering into clear light. Many have stopped because Lama Zopa publicly supports the Dalai Lama's ban on Dorje Shugden.

Even Lama Yeshe's precious Dorje Shugden statue which was in Kopan Monastery was given away. Thankfully the statue is still around now being nicely kept at Gangchen Ladrang. (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=8)

No matter where our Guru is, close or far away from us, we should keep our commitments. Lama Osel is the product of broken commitments. Yes although a great teacher/lama does not have to be in robes to bring benefit to others, but think of it this way, if all students have kept their commitments well, Lama Osel couldve started teaching from very young and hence benefiting more sentient beings directly or indirectly in a quicker manner.

Ensapa

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2012, 03:58:46 PM »
Gomo Tulku's previous life story is nowhere to be found because none of his students who know it has translated it into English. He is very young right now and his current career path does not need the validation of his previous life. Things may change when he grows up and decides to go into teaching and thereby leading a legion of his fans into the Dharma. That could be a possibility. He does have a rather long line of incarnations that tells you he is highly attained.

You know, with regards the 6th Dalai Lama, I heard that he manifested as a divine playboy because he secretly wanted to father a dynasty, similar to the patriarchs of the Sakya tradition in which the father and son takes turn to reincarnate so that the line of rulership does not go through the gap years between incarnations. But alas, it didn't work out as the young Dalai Lama was arrested and was sent up north to be questioned. And so, he passed away in mid-journey and all plans to father a dynasty passed away with that incarnation.

As for Lama Osel, he is not with FPMT, perhaps it is because they have not made amends for the broken samaya and so he is compelled to leave anyway. We shall see what happens when the Dorje Shugden ban goes down in 4-5 years' time. Will FPMT embrace Dorje Shugden? If that happens, will it attract Lama Osel back? We shall see...

I found this today on Osel's facebook page that kind of explains why is he close with Gomo Tulku:

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How time flies!!! about 20 years ago, we took getsul ordination together from H.H. the Dalai Lama, at the age of 7, and we grew up in Sera Mahayana University as best friends for 12 years. And now look at him!! i never thought it would be this way!! but that is the times we're living, change in its most unique moment.
Im loving and digging this song, and the next is gonna be even better!!! Keep movin Gomo Bro, dont' stop man, whatever people say!!! you just keep on movin Bro!!!!!

Perhaps this is why they are together now. I do find quite sad that Gomo Tulku's students did not put in the effort to actually translate the biographies or actually promote their lama. Was he a DS lama as well?

As for the 6th Dalai Lama, I have also read that he wanted to father a dynasty but why die he start at the 6th and not at the 1st or 2nd? There must be a trigger factor for that to happen. The same source also said that the 5th Dalai Lama was very against the war but Sangye Gyatso went ahead with it despite his Lama's displeasure. This is a very interesting piece of information that many scholars today tend to miss out and not realize that the Dalai Lama institution was in fact, forced to the Dalai Lama to be the figurehead of the country.

I have heard that many of Lama Yeshe's students still did Dorje Shugden after his passing but were kicked out of FPMT almost immediately after Lama Zopa's decree. Many of them hold positions in FPMT and have benefitted many through their actions and as they got kicked out and nobody could replace them, these positions and the branches they administrate were closed down as well, like for example their prison visitation programme. It is quite sad that the ban literally broke the center apart.

Ensapa

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2012, 08:38:54 AM »
Here's what nonbuddhists think about Osel Hita and the whole thing. I dont know if it plants seeds or creating more misunderstandings:

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Making a 'boy god' watch The Golden Child was bound to make him reject Buddhism

Sam Leith
The Guardian, Thursday 4 June 2009

"I'm not religious, yah?

I mean, I don't believe in organised religion, OK? I'm a rahly spiritual person, though, you know? I mean like the Dalai Lama is like toadily one of the most inspiring people. When I went to Dharamsala ..."

It is not just the gap-year mouth-breathers. Even people who in most circumstances look like good, down-the-line liberal secularists are suckers for cute Tibetan monks.

For the hardy, yak-tending folk of the Tibetan plateau, common wisdom has it that the best alternative to brutal occupation by Chinese imperialists is to reinstate a feudal theocracy - just as long as it's led by a pacific old fellow with a fat tum and an unusually infectious laugh. That, of course, is their business. But crackpottery is as crackpottery does - and the story that emerged this week of the lapsed Lama, Osel Hita Torres, is one that slightly takes the shine off.

Torres, 24 - known to his sometime co-religionists as Lama Tenzin Osel Rinpoche - described to the Spanish newspaper El Mundo at the weekend how he came to spend his formative years sitting on a throne in northern India with grown men worshipping him.

At first, he seems to have been the victim of pushy-parent syndrome. Not content with enrolling him in Suzuki classes, hothousing him with flashcards, or planning a career for him at the bar, his parents conceived the idea that he was going to be a god when he grew up.

The Dalai Lama, unfortunately, agreed with them. At only 14 months old, Torres was taken to Dharamsala, where he vanquished eight rival claimants at the karmic beauty contests and was declared to be the reincarnation of the Lama Yeshe.

Then the fun started. "I dressed in a yellow hat, I sat on a throne, people worshipped me," Torres recalled. "I was taken away from my family and put in a medieval situation in which I suffered a great deal."

The poor little shaver didn't want to sit on a throne and be worshipped, of course. He wanted to play Nintendo DS and watch Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers; and when he grew up he wanted to snog girls and go to the movies. Instead, by the time he was six, he was forbidden from socialising with normal kids, and was allowed to hang out only with reincarnated souls and Richard Gere.

When at the age of 19 he finally left the monastery and went to a disco he wondered: "What were all those people doing, bouncing, stuck to one another, enclosed in a box full of smoke?" He had suffered through the Tibetan equivalent of being educated at Ampleforth. The oddest detail of all, in the tale told by Torres, is that he wasn't allowed contact with the mass-media - except for a special screening of The Golden Child. Do you remember the movie? A more crassly orientalist a version of Tibetan religion would be hard to find. Can it be possible that the monks thought this was the way to get the young Lama excited about his future?

Charles Dance plays a balding demon called "Numpsie", hellbent on retrieving a sacred dagger from an Indiana Jones-style mystical cavern in order to murder a spookily serene toddler with magic powers. There's a bit, if memory serves, where what looks like a sexy woman turns out to be a transsexual ... and then Eddie Murphy saves the universe. Eddie Murphy!

Showing this to the young Lama is the equivalent of preparing new recruits for service in the Los Angeles Police Department by showing them a video of Beverly Hills Cop. And in terms of Buddhist theology, they couldn't have done much worse with the 1970s TV epic Monkey.

"Will I get a big pink cloud to sit on and my own theme tune and a friend with ears like a pig?"

"Technically?"

"Yes."

"No."

"Well sod that for a game of soldiers, then. I'm off down the arcade to get tattooed."

Now, Mr Torres is living in Madrid, has finished film school, and visited the Burning Man festival in Nevada. He now calls himself an agnostic and shows no signs of taking over the family firm. That, as the Dalai Lama will probably reflect, is karma.

I dont know about you, but i do find the article rude, but at the same time we cannot control how people react to things and this seems to be the reaction from people who do not know about Buddhism or Dharma on this situation. Does this add to the negative karma of the people who pushed Lama Osel to manifest this way due to broken samaya?

dsiluvu

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Re: De-incarnation: From Lama to Film Student
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2012, 01:19:33 PM »

I dont know about you, but i do find the article rude, but at the same time we cannot control how people react to things and this seems to be the reaction from people who do not know about Buddhism or Dharma on this situation. Does this add to the negative karma of the people who pushed Lama Osel to manifest this way due to broken samaya?


Well they can say whatever they wish to say... bottom line is we can see some good results happening with him diverting to a different more creative path... no doubt it is still to reach out to another section/group of people in todays' world... in fact I find him quite inspiring and I am looking forward to the release of his film.... how creative.... I like new unconventional methods use to bridge Dharma and the outside world... check it out http://www.beingyourtruenature.org/