What's up with the Noob's?

[crazycloud]

Traditionally, the abbots of the big Gelug monasteries have the blessings of the Dalai Lama to hold that position. That extends to the positions of Sharpa Choeje and Jangtse Choeje, and even the Gaden Tripa too.

Hello Duldzin-

How do you come by this information, please?

From my understanding, Geshe Lharampas and Tsogrampas from the big three monasteries enter Gyume or Gyuto as Geshe Karampas. Once they pass their tantric debates, they become Ngagrampas. From among these, three disciplinarians are chosen each year. From among the former disciplinarians, a Lama Umdze is chosen. The Lama Umdze hold his position for three years, then becomes Abbot. The senior-most retired Abbot of Gyumay becomes the Jangtse Chojey, and the senior-most retired Abbot of Gyuto becomes the Shartse Chojey. These two masters alternate in becoming the Ganden Tripa.

I have never heard that the Dalai Lama had anything to do with it. Once one is Lama Umdze, it is really a matter of fortune who becomes the Tri Rinpoche. Unless the DL chosses the Lama Umdze, he's not involved.

At least that is how it used to be. Now The DL just chooses who he likes.

I have a hard time believing that the sixth, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh or twelfth Dalai Lamas had anything whatsoever to do with this process, nor did the first through fourth. Do you have any information that the Fifth, Seventh or Thirteenth DID? Even if so, does that make it traditional?

interested,
CC

[honeydakini]

Why it doesn't pay to either criticise the Dalai Lama OR Dorje Shugden

A very good post on why both the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden seem to contradict themselves and why, whichever side we choose to be on, we seem to break our samaya... there must be a bigger picture and THIS IS WHY: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0

[Atishas cook]

whichever side we choose to be on, we seem to break our samaya

not at all: i have no samaya bond with the DL, and even if i had previously, his actions have shown him to no longer be an authentic Lama, if indeed he ever was.

[thor]

Traditionally, the abbots of the big Gelug monasteries have the blessings of the Dalai Lama to hold that position. That extends to the positions of Sharpa Choeje and Jangtse Choeje, and even the Gaden Tripa too.

Hello Duldzin-

How do you come by this information, please?

From my understanding, Geshe Lharampas and Tsogrampas from the big three monasteries enter Gyume or Gyuto as Geshe Karampas. Once they pass their tantric debates, they become Ngagrampas. From among these, three disciplinarians are chosen each year. From among the former disciplinarians, a Lama Umdze is chosen. The Lama Umdze hold his position for three years, then becomes Abbot. The senior-most retired Abbot of Gyumay becomes the Jangtse Chojey, and the senior-most retired Abbot of Gyuto becomes the Shartse Chojey. These two masters alternate in becoming the Ganden Tripa.

I have never heard that the Dalai Lama had anything to do with it. Once one is Lama Umdze, it is really a matter of fortune who becomes the Tri Rinpoche. Unless the DL chosses the Lama Umdze, he's not involved.

At least that is how it used to be. Now The DL just chooses who he likes.

I have a hard time believing that the sixth, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh or twelfth Dalai Lamas had anything whatsoever to do with this process, nor did the first through fourth. Do you have any information that the Fifth, Seventh or Thirteenth DID? Even if so, does that make it traditional?

interested,
CC

CC:

My apologies. Perhaps "traditional" is a poor choice of words. But it has applied to the past few Gaden Tripas as far as my research goes. What I personally find interesting is that many high lamas such as Gaden Trisur are all practising quietly underground. And in Gaden Trisur's case, the Dalai Lama still gives his blessings to ascend the highest position in the Gelug school.

Apart from Gaden Trisur, there are other tulkus of the Gelug school whose status are confirmed by Dalai Lama. Yet they also practice Dorje Shugden, albeit in secret. That makes Dalai Lama look silly as each of these practising lamas come out of the proverbial closet. Dalai Lama's critics would say that with his clairvoyance, he should have known already.

TK's post here gives a different perspective and view of what Dalai Lama and Shugden are actually doing.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=599.0