DALAI LAMA, PLEASE STOP LYING!!!! (NEW TELEVISION FOOTAGE)

[Like Space]

Dear Like space, beautiful name:

could you please give us the url for that? I looked in the BBC website and couldn't find it. Thanks

Hello Friend!
It's this story:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/7421888.stm
And here's the link (of course):
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/
(If you look at the website, go down the right side of the page, and you'll find the bit where it says, 'RELATED INTERNET LINKS' - there's a link to the Dalai Lama's website, and underneath that, this one!)
Love,
LS

[rolang]

For "a friend", I copy it for you. Maybe if you see it within context you can realise how in the UK the press started to portray the controvesy around "the prayer". So perhaps you can also measure your words and thoughts beforehand.

Page last updated at 15:24 GMT, Tuesday, 27 May 2008 16:24 UK
E-mail this to a friend    Printable version
Protest at Dalai Lama prayer ban
Protesters in Nottingham
Buddhists protested against the ban on a prayer by the Dalai Lama

Buddhists have held protests in Nottingham against the Dalai Lama's banning of a prayer.

The protesters, including monks and nuns, said the ban on the prayer worshipping the spirit of Dorje Shugden was "unjust".

In a BBC interview, the Dalai Lama said he had not advocated a ban, but he had stopped the worship of the spirit because it was not Buddhist in nature.

The protesters said they wanted to discuss the issue with the Dalai Lama.

Kelsang Perma, a Buddhist nun, said: "We are here because we have been trying to petition the Dalai Lama.

"It is a simple prayer that encourages people to develop pure minds of love, peace and compassion."

The exiled Tibetan leader said people were free to protest and it was up to individuals to decide.

[basically]

Hi everybody

Please remain focused. Keep repeating the truth.....it works!

The "debate" that we never had about this issue was won by us many years ago.......what we have to do now is continue to expose this lying dictator to the rest of the world. And please don't harangue me about him being my kind mother - I know that and because I love him I am trying to stop him committing further trouble for himself and others.

If we lose focus the we lose the battle to expose the truth....the truth is that we are being lied to every day by the Dalai Lama - he says one thing (eg "I promote religious harmony", "There is no ban" etc etc etc) and does the opposite - this is the activity of a hypocrite.  More dangerously he is trying to win in the battle to show that Shugden people are not Buddhists at all...lies and more lies about "spirit worship" spewed out by the UK media today.  Like meeting the British PM on Friday to talk about human rights while his agents are simultaneously trying to destroy Palgyeling Monastery in Nepal; burning down Geshe Chime Tsering's house in New Delhi last Thursday; while his sister is in Paris starting the forced signature campaign of Tibetans in France; while arranging for the same to happen in Madison,US, in July 2008....it is endless.....Like putting out on the media he is personally giving money to victims of the Chinese earthquake when in fact he is taxing ordinary Tibetans to pay this for him; like forcing every family in the exile community to send somebody from their family to his teachings.......these are the activities of a despot.

Please can we keep focused on exposing these lies?  Gradually more and more people are understanding that he is a liar...they may not be quite sure why he is a liar due to the incredible complexity of our story..but you can bet your last dollar that people are waking up from their slumber.

We must save the pure tradition of Je Tsongkhapa that so many people gave their lives to preserve in the past for ourselves to benefit from now.  We owe this to future generations who will need the nectar of the Ganden oral lineage.  We are not disparaging any other traditions - we respect them all; but we also prefer our own spiritual dishes served by the great masters of our lineage.....

By the way - the header for this thread has the word "please" in it.....but we tried that in the 1990's and he didn't listen.  So now we chant very loudly without that word simply..."STOP LYING"

And very effective medicine it is too....so much poison purified by this wonderful mantra...

[cheyenne]

WESTERN SHUGDEN SUPPORTER, NKT AND KELSANG GYATSO. STOP LYING,

Stop shouting we can hear you! Debate with us about our ‘lies’ and we will win.

STOP SPIRIT WORSHIP,

Debate with us about  ‘spirit worship (or not)’ and we will win.

STOP DEFAMING THE BUDDHA, THE DHARMA AND THE SANGHA

Debate with us about how ‘we are defaming the three jewels’ and we will win.

[cheyenne]

Dear Simon, London

I am not here to debate the pros and cons of the NKT. There are plenty of other places on the internet where you can satisfy your delusions in this regard.

This is a place where Dorje Shugden practitioners (who are not exclusive to NKT) can discuss and debate.

If you are not a Dorje Shugden practitioner why are you here? - Except to indulge in divisive speech.

You should go and examine your state of mind, if you see fault in others then it is guaranteed there is delusion present in your mind.

That fault can be tackled by changing internally (the source of all problems), and by tackling external problems with a loving compassionate mind.

Cheyenne

[cheyenne]

Dear Simon, London

Sectarian means you have a single point of view, where your view is the only correct view.

There are many views and traditions within Buddhism, four of which belong to the Tibetan tradition.
We have different karma, and Buddha taught 84000 different teachings for the karma of living beings.

The Gelugpa tradition is but one and the NKT is actually an offshoot of the Gelugpas.

Both Tibetan Gelugpas and NKT have Je TsongKhapa as their root Guru, and all Gelugpas have Trijang Dorje Chang as their lineage Guru.

To be sectarian I would have to say “I am right and you are wrong”.

I am not sectarian because I believe that “that which is right for me is right for me”, and “that which is right for you is right for you”.

You can believe whatever you like, it is of no concern to me, and I respect your right to believe whatever you like.

It is when you tell me I am wrong (without a valid reason) and that you are right, then that is sectarian.

The Dalai Lama tells me I am wrong, without a valid reason.

I say, “If he doesn’t want to practice Dorje Shugden then it right for him”.
Trijang Dorje Chang gave him permission to stop, although he was disappointed with his decision.

But if he says it is wrong and evil for me to practice Dorje Shugden, when he is not my Guru, then he is being sectarian.

This is the whole nub of the problem

Cheyenne

[cheyenne]

Dear Simon, London

Your arguments are empty and have no meaning, give valid reasons.

You are just like a parrot repeating that which has no valid reason.
You follow words blindly out of ignorance and hatred.

[do not hide under the skin of trijiang rinpoche and do not bring his name up. don't you guys associate with HH trijiang.]

Go to the home page of this web site - and read 'The most definitive and complete document on VAJRADHARA DORJE SHUGDEN, his nature, function and history, written by His Holiness the Dalai Lama's root Guru, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang (trijiang rinpoche)' he practiced Dorje Shugden right upto his death..

This is the final energy I give to this, I can’t argue with bigoted views.

Cheyenne

[cheyenne]

Dear Simon, London

I'll let Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang have the last say.

----

Likewise, in regard to this very Dharma protector, Emanated Gyalchen Dorje Shugden, in Expression of the Names of Manjusri, it says,
 
 Glorious illuminator of all forms!
 Holder of all reflections!
 
Thus, although he can appear in any mundane or supramundane form whatsoever depending upon whether our mind is pure or impure, in actuality he is Venerable  Manjusri of nondual wisdom mandala that is the appearance of purified aggregates elements, and sources of consciousness, showing himself as a miraculously  powerful worldly protector. 

Wrong Assertions
 
Not understanding such important points, some, who have fallen under the influence of the demon of partisanship, think and say that this supreme deity, the great emanated Dharmapala, is no different than an ordinary gyalpo or tsen spirit who has an inferior form as a result of being a monk or lay person who died with bad karma. Leave aside relying upon him as a protector, they even deride others who do so. There are some, indeed, who echo such claims knowing nothing about it.

Yet all this talk is nothing but babbling speculation. Why? Because this great guardian of the teachings is well known to be the precious supreme emanation from Drepung  monastery's upper house, Dragpa Gyaltsen, arising in a wrathful aspect.

The proof is unmistaken.

--------

from VAJRADHARA DORJE SHUGDEN, his nature, function and history, written by His Holiness the Dalai Lama's root Guru, Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang.

[Like Space]

Dear Simon from London,
Per your most recent post: what a large amount of energy wasted. This is easy to find elsewhere on the web, but this is a website for ALL friends of Dorje Shugden, so I’m not sure why you’re here. Incidentally, The Dalai Lama is not Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s root guru, and if you want to know more about Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s views on sectarianism,  I suggest you look here:
http://www.dharmaprotector.org/
Per your post previous to that:
The Dalai Lama has no right to tell those who are not his disciples what to practice. I am sorry to tell you this, but he is not doing what he is doing for the benefit of all, but for his own benefit and for the benefit of his own political aims. How can something be so beneficial when the act of banning a practice causes so much confusion, strife and divisiveness among Buddhists in India, the East and here, in the West?
It is the Dalai Lama who is causing segregation and fractions. (Have you read the information on the rest of this website?)
As far as the Incomparable HH Trijang Dorje Chang is concerned, I love him dearly. He is largely responsible for the transmission of the perfect teachings and blessings of the Holy Dharma we receive through our own Spiritual Guides. Because of this, I can no more separate myself from Him, than from my own grandparents.
I wish you happiness and the blessings of the Three Jewels.
Love,
LS

[cheyenne]

HOW CAN THIS MAN(KG) BETRAY HIS OWN GURUS,
1.   HH THE DALAI LAMA
2.   GHESHA YESHI
3.   TIBET AND TIBEANS,
4.   GELUG
SUCH IS A SAD MAN

Again your ignorance is supreme.

Kelsangs Gyatso Guru was Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang (also he was the Guru of the Dalai Lama & Lama Yeshe )

[prodorjeshugden]

What the Nun said is true, the practice of Dorje Shugden encourages people to develop pure minds of peace  love and compassion.  Dorje Shugden is not a evil spirit, many times Dorje Shugden saved lives and that is certainly not something a evil spirit can do.
The Dalai Lama says that there is no ban, but based on what is happening there is no denying that the ban exists. Not only does the ban destroy families it is also politically motivated on a false reason! If  there was a true valid reason for the ban it wouldn't be too bad, but the ban is based on totally false reasons which don't even exist!
The CTA gang are the real spirit worshippers, they are the ones who always consult Nechung for advice, and many times the advice of Nechung has been proved false.

To the CTA: Stop being a hypocrite and talk about yourself! 

[dharmacrazy79]

People in power are only able to abuse their authority because they are permitted to do so. With the widespread discrimination and segregation of Dorje Shugden practitioners, how can any logical person accept that there is no ban.

Dorje Shugden practitoners are singled out and banned from attending teachings because of their religious choice. They are even deprived of their basic right to identification documents because applicants for a yellow book (equivalent to a passport for tibetan refugees) need to declare that they do not practice Dorje Shugden.

Additionally, Dorje Shugden practitoners are expelled from monasteries and forbidden  to enter shops and hospitals solely because they practice Dorje Shugden. This is in fact the direct instructions of the Dalai Lama.

How is it even possible that the Tibetan leadership have the audacity to say there is no ban. They take the world as fools that cannot see through the lack of integrity.

[dsnowlion]

It is really funny that they would say there is no ban when there is so many obvious signs that there is... one very fact that they need to say that there is no ban already tells us that there is a ban or definitely a huge discrimination against those who practice Shugden. And well if there is no ban then what are all these pro-Dalai Lama/CTA people are saying? Why do they keep harassing Shugden Lamas and people and say nasty discriminatory things???

You know if really there is no ban then why not have a dialogue with the Shugden representatives to sort things out since they have been asking for it and have it televised so everyone can see the "honest" CTA doing good for their people. BUT we all know very well they will not do that. WHY because everything that they do and say about the ban, no ban, Dorje Shugden is actually all lies and they have NOTHING substantial to back it up. Nothing at all! So they will never come out to say it and write the wrong and sorry to say this the more His Holiness stays quiet the more confirmation it give that He was the one that started this whole chaos amongst His people. How very very sad.

[pgdharma]

The ban has caused much hardship to Dorje Shugden practitioners; 20 years of the ban, 20 years of hardship, yet why did the Dalai Lama kept saying that there is no ban when there are videos of his speeches enforcing this ban and many evidences of Dorje Shugden practitioners being abused, attacked and threatened. (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/controversy/videos-controversy/20-years-of-suffering-lift-the-shugden-ban/)

Dorje Shugden practitioners do not like hypocrisy and have requested the Dalai Lama to have a dialogue to discuss on the Dorje Shugden issue, but why is it that he has refused to do so?
 
Everyone has the right to religious freedom and the Tibetans are no exception. Because of one man, the Dalai Lama, so many have to suffer. Where is your compassion, Dalai Lama? Please urge your followers to stop persecuting Dorje Shugden practitioners.

[grandmapele]

I fear to say this but sometimes, the world is very preoccupied with temporal matters and have a very secular view of the Dalai lama's actions. Furthermore, the western powers to be have their own agenda which may not be to anyone but their own advantage.

I think the Dalai Lama knows it and as long as he is useful to them, he will play their game and do what he will until such time as he is discarded by the Western political powers. Again, here the view is very secular. If the Dalai Lama is really Chenrezig then his objective are very very far into the future and we may not see it in our lifetime.

Whatever it is, the CTA also knows it and is freely enjoying the abuse in the meantime.


OM BENZA WIKI BITTAN SOHA. May the negative karma of of most of the Tibetans be ripened and exhausted and may the ban be lifted.