Author Topic: Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang - Dharma Preacher  (Read 11271 times)

stibo

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang - Dharma Preacher
« Reply #15 on: June 04, 2008, 08:57:59 PM »
Hi All,

Regarding the Pabongka Rinpoche letter to the 13th Dalai Lama, I read this letter 4 or 5 weeks ago and I have been surprised at first. Then, after I have some thought about it, I came to the conclusion that this letter fit too well in the frame up that the TGIE is creating.

Does the reading that Heartspoon is doing can explain the letter? I have to be convinced, because Pabongka Rinpoche would have been more explicit. I'm totally convinced that he wouldn't have contradict his own point of view on the status of Dordje Shugden without giving well formulated and clear arguments as he did in the introduction of the "Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors".

I suspect that the explanation should be look at in the direction were TrinleyKalsang point to:

"From what I've heard this letter from the 13th is made up later and inserted into his works.  There was friction between the 13th and Phabonkha, such as over the validity of the Southern Tradition of Manjushri's Own Words.  The 13th ordered him to give him proof over validity of the lineage in 5 minutes or he would be arrested, Phabongkha said "my guru can't be wrong, if you look in the Potala collection in this book page # etc. you will see this line..."  So Phabongkha spontaneously, with his clairvoyance provided all of the sutra page numbers and where they were in the Potala, and the 13th just had to accept it.".

I'm not sure I completely understand the relation between the Pabongka Rinpoche letter and the Southern Tradition of Manjushri's Own Words, but I think that people who have access to many editions of HH the 13th Dalai Lama should find in which edition and when this letter suddently appear. Rewriting the history, creating and deleting events and documents is a well known method used throughout the history.

a friend

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang - Dharma Preacher
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2008, 09:19:25 PM »
Now, this is exactly the type of document we would like to have in our possession to examine ... But don't forget that many documents got lost during exile and the pertinent ones, if they exist, are not going to be handed to us.

They say that for many parts of the world and many historic cycles the Vatican Libraries hold the type of secrets you are referring to.

Unhappily we don't even have such a slight hope as knowing that the documents are in a specific place and that we might be able to locate them some day...

Imagine, friend, that things that happened if front of journalists, that are filmed and stored, are later on denied. And nobody cares. How are we going to find documents to disprove fake documents?

For example, the Colgate University demonstration happened, as it were, hours ago. Everybody can see the video, can see the amount of people in attendance, can see the Dalai Lama's spokesperson talking to them.
The other day, this same spokesperson for the Dalai Lama was asked a question about this demonstration in a radio in Asia. Do you know what he said? Oh, yes, yes, there were some people there, like 4 Tibetans and 20 Westerners.

...

So, if what we know about the behaviour of a person contradicts documents about the same person ... well, we have the power of inference on our side.
My suggestion is:

Let's tell the world the truth, that everything indicates that this letter is a falsity introduced in a true document, that nothing in the behaviour of Pabongkapa shows the possibility of it being true.
    Let's also tell the world that the Thirteen Dalai Lama was a follower of Dorje Shugden's advice for such huge matters as renovating stupas and the Potala itself in order to create a protection for Tibet. Which allows us to infer with excellent reason that the Thirteenth Dalai Lama's inimical mind against the Protector might be another lie or exageration or twisting the meaning of long ago occurrences.

stibo

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Re: Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang - Dharma Preacher
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2008, 08:32:56 AM »
I made a mistake, instead of "Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors" I was thinking of the Kangsto ("The drum..."), I have the text in french and I forgot the title in english.