Author Topic: Tibet's Freedom is Near  (Read 13969 times)

Ensapa

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Re: Tibet's Freedom is Near
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2012, 08:22:13 AM »
It's 2012 now and it's already near the end of 2012, but nothing has changed, except for China replacing its president. China did not shift their policies or anything towards Tibet at all even with the change. Tibet is still not free. And nobody even talks about such predictions anymore. Perhaps they were made to cheer up the crowd, but there is little credibility in them at all. I wouldnt listen to Nechung anymore if I were the Dalai Lama.

beggar

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Re: Tibet's Freedom is Near
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2012, 10:32:45 AM »
Well it looks like this article has been stirring things up among the media too. Well done to the team for sending this out. Three major newspapers in India have since covered the story (not fantastic that they have hinted at Dorje Shugden practitioners being violent, but at least there is coverage and it could incite readers to think about how effective the Tibetan leadership really is in attaining independence for their people.

Here, have a read:

THE TRIBUNE
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20121207/himachal.htm#13
Dorje Shugden followers write against CTA
Lalit Mohan

Dharamsala, December 6
Followers of Dorje Shugden, a controversial Tibetan sect opposed to the Dalai Lama, have written a letter to the Kangra police challenging methods and beliefs of the Central Tibetan Administration (CTA).

The police received a letter and a CD from the followers of Dorje Shugden on Tuesday.

The letter is anonymous and the CD contains a video footage of a programme broadcasted in a French channel in 2009.

In the letter it has been stated that members of the CTA are taking guidance from spirits like “Nechung Oracle”.

“Nechung Oracle” had predicted that the Dalai Lama and Tibetan exiles would go back to Tibet in 2012. However, nothing of this sort had happened as yet, the letter stated.

The letter has stated that the CTA should not follow the prophecies of spirits and instead should only worship the embodiment of the Buddha as the Dalai Lama.

The letter also criticises the CTA for not allowing the worship of Dorje Shugden, who they consider as an embodiment of the Buddha.

The CD sent to the police also contains a video footage that supports the message given in the letter.

SP, Kangra, Diljeet Thakur said: “We are looking into the source of the letter. It seems that the author of the letter has tried to challenge the ways and means of the CTA. The development has been reported to a contingent of the Himachal Police providing security to the Dalai Lama and they have asked to take necessary steps in this regard.”

Dorje Shugden is considered to be a wrathful spirit of a deceased Lama now working as “the worldly protector”. Shugden is believed to be a spirit of murdered Gelukpa Lama, who had opposed the 5th Dalai Lama both in debate and politics. He was found dead under mysterious circumstances.

There are about one million Dorje Shugden followers worldwide. The trouble between the followers of this sect and the present Dalai Lama began in 1975 when the yellow book was published.

In this book a message was given to Ge-Luk Lamas that they should not practice teaching of other schools or otherwise they would incur Shugden’s wrath and die prematurely.

After the publication of this book that was perceived as a direct challenge to the authority of the Dalai Lama, he banned the Shugden practices.

Reports said in the recent past the Chinese government had started promoting followers of Dorje Shugden to counter the influence of the Dalai Lama.

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HINDUSTAN TIMES

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Punjab/Chandigarh/Breakaway-Tibetan-Buddhists-threaten-the-Dalai-Lama/SP-Article1-968931.aspx

Breakaway Tibetan Buddhists threaten the Dalai Lama
Naresh K Thakur
Dharamsala, December 05, 2012

After remaining dormant for five years, the dissident group in the Tibetan community in exile has once again started its covert activities in Dharamsala town. Dharamsala police received a parcel from followers of Dorje Shugden containing anti- Dalai Lama literature and a video CD.

Assistant Superintendent of Police (ASP) of Kangra G Siva Kumar, while confirming the news, said the some unknown person had been the parcel from Singapore.

"The parcel contains a pamphlet and a video CD," said Kumar, adding that there was nothing threatening in the contents.

"In the pamphlet and CD, questions have been raised over the efforts being made by the Dalai Lama and Central Tibetan Administration (CTA) for the freedom of Tibet and have alleged that proper path was not followed to achieve autonomy and independence," said Kumar. The Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government in exile have also been accused of discriminating against Shugden devotees, added Kumar.

He said the CD contained a news clipping aired by a French channel in 2009. Meanwhile, SP Kangra, Diljeet Thakur said that security at the Dalai Lama's residence had been cautioned.

Shugden devotees are among the most violent fundamentalist groups among the exiles. One of their groups, Dorje Shugden Devotees Charitable and Religious Society (DSDCRS) has its headquarters in Delhi. In Feb1997, three Tibetan Buddhist monks, including the Dalai Lama's close associate, Lobsang Gyatso, who was opposed to Shugden-worship, were brutally murdered in Dharamsala. It was widely held that the perpetrators were monks loyal to Shugden.

The Indian police had identified and charged DSDCRS members of the triple murder and Interpol had issued a red corner notice against two accused in June 2007.

In 2008, an organisation named Western Shugden Society (WSS) had begun a campaign directed at the Dalai Lama. Picketing the venues where he was to appear around the world, they claimed that he was banning them from practicing their own lineage of Buddhism.

May this year, when the Dalai Lama apprehended a "poison plot" by the Chinese intelligence agencies, the Tibetan government in exile had felt threatened from fundamentalist groups backed by Chinese authorities. The CTA had asserted that efforts of the spiritual leader to reform and democratise the Tibetan society had emboldened certain fundamentalists within the community.
 
Shugden Dorje
Dorje Shugden is a controversial deity within Tibetan Buddhism. He is primarily associated with two influential lamas of the Gelugpa school of Tibet: Pabongka Rinpoche and Trijang Rinpoche. The Dalai Lama is the current head of the Gelugpa sect. Dorje Shugden is viewed by some as a protector and by others, including the Dalai Lama, as an 'evil and malevolent force'. In 1996, the Dalai Lama disassociated himself from the worshippers of Dorje Shugden and had appealed to the Tibetan community not to worship Shugden.

**************************************

The Times of India
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/Anonymous-parcel-questions-Dalais-role/articleshow/17500727.cms

Anonymous Parcel Questions Dalai’s Role
S Gopal Puri

DHARAMSHALA: In charge of local police station has received an anonymous parcel from Singapore which questions the role of Dalai Lama and the deities in Tibetan freedom struggle. While the police officers are not clear on how to deal with the parcel contents, which also contained a video DVD, a security officer of the Tibetan administration said that it was a bid to mar reputation of Dalai Lama and disrupt affairs of the Shugden community.

"We received the parcel on Tuesday evening. It contains a DVD and a letter and the text at the bottom reads - DorjeShugden.net. We are probing the matter," said superintendent of police Diljeet Singh Thakur. The letter reads: "We write to you because this concerns the freedom of Tibet. Please watch the DVD video." The DVD contains a TV news report of June 2009 and talks about prophecies of Dalai Lama and Tibetan future.

The letter questions role of Tibetan state oracle "Nechung" stating that everybody knows that "Nechung has made many mistakes before".

Dorjee Shugden's controversy

The entire Tibetan community has been divided over the Dorje Shugden controversy. This is a segment of the Tibetan community which follows Dorje Shugden allegedly a dharma protector of the Sakya Gelug tradition. Sources said that believers of Dorje Shugden have been severed from voting rights and have even lost all connections to Dalai Lama and the Central Tibetan Administration.


vajratruth

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Re: Tibet's Freedom is Near
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2012, 05:57:43 PM »

In this day and age, the sole reliance on the gods for the future of a secular society is not feasible; nor will it be taken seriously by the rest of the modern world. In particular, the further contradictions, inconsistencies and inaccuracies of these oracles make it even more difficult for a secular community to accept what they are saying. To depend so heavily on the advice of gods instead of assuming responsibility for their own people seems a highly unreliable and unstable way of governing a country. Furthermore, to use the gods against each other – where some are so strongly relied upon and others are grossly banned and disparaged – turns the leaders into even more of a farce.

At the end of the day, after cutting through all the politics, prophecies and contradictions, the few burning questions still remain: Where is Tibet’s freedom or autonomy? And why haven’t any of the prophecies (see the videos above) come true? Why is a modern government and leadership still laying the entire future of their people and ‘country’ on the unstable words of unenlightened gods? Is this method really working?

Very valid points made by Beggar.  It is already more than half a century since Tibet lost its freedom and the question is what has the Dalai Lama and the CTA (previously TGIE) accomplished in their so called efforts to procure an independent or even an autonomous Tibet.

In the same period of time, China has undergone what is now coming into its sixth generation of leaders, the United States has voted ten Presidents into office and even the Soviet Union is no more and Russia is into its 5th President. The world has progressed and moved on and yet the government of the Tibetans in exile is still stuck in its narrow and antiquated mindlessness.

To me, the Dalai Lama refers to oracles and prophecies of Tibet’s freedom as a means of keeping Tibetan-in-exile hopes alive and as long as there is hope that freedom may be achieved under the leadership of the Dalai Lama, his failures and that of the CTA will be not brought into light and questioned by his own people.  As early as the 1970’s the Dalai Lama had pointed to a number of Nechung’s prophecies that Tibet will soon regain its freedom, to inspire the Tibetans.

And when that did not happen, the blame was placed squarely on Dorje Shugden and a crusade against Dorje Shugden was packaged sold to the Tibetan public as a fight to regain Tibet’s independence. And in that way, the Dalai Lama and CTA turned a political quest into a religious war and dumped the onus of regaining the freedom of their nation onto the shoulders of innocent practitioners of a belief that is centuries old. Perhaps blinded by their veneration of the Dalai Lama, the ordinary Tibetan didn’t stop to think what interest would a deity have in geopolitics?

No one disputes the clairvoyant power of oracles or the supernatural potency of the Buddha’s blessings but as we all know, divine support works best when there is also sensible and positive steps taken out of pure motivation on a secular level to create the causes for success. And it on these level that the Dalai Lama and the CTA has failed miserably.

The people of Tibet themselves are fragmented. There are those living in Tibet under Chinese government who are contented; there are those in Tibet who want greater autonomy; there are Tibetans living in exile outside Tibet who long to return to the motherland and then there are those who have taken up citizenship in foreign lands and now treat Tibet’s freedom as only a romantic ideal. The Dalai Lama and the CTA have done nothing to reconcile all Tibetans under a single achievable purpose, a step that should be accomplished before any hopes of reconciling with China can be explored. Instead the Dalai Lama’s decision to ban a centuries-old practice threw an already fragmented people into chaos and in the process exported religion-based hatred overseas to replace the image of Shangri-La that Tibet enjoyed for so long.

If the Dalai Lama and CTA insist on relying on oracles and the power of the Buddhas, then there is one measure that they have not taken. That is to rely on the advice of an enlightened Protector who has been proven to be correct time and time again, and that is the Oracle of Dorje Shugden.

Ensapa

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Re: Tibet's Freedom is Near
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2012, 05:33:59 AM »
over 50 years in exile and they still have issues trying to build a name for themselves, or rather, build a real government that really takes care of the people. Many nations have a government that actually serves the people. What does CTA do? make sure that everyone is not a Dorje Shugden practitioner? Why is it that nobody has ever asked that in what way and how does Dorje Shugden stop their independence? It seems to me that the Tibetans really think that they will be granted independence by some divine god rather than them working towards it.

dsiluvu

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Re: Tibet's Freedom is Near
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2012, 07:45:19 AM »
It is almost Christmas... we are in the last month of year 2012... and what we are witnessing is more and more people burning themselves in vain. NO SIGN OF TIBET FREEDOM anywhere NEAR. No SIGN of even PEACE talks between the two. Their age group of self-immolators are getting younger, the youngest so far, 16 years old girl. Their call for help is of a political one, not a self-less act because it is not universally appealing at this moment and definitely not for Buddhism to remain and spread.

They wish the whole world to help them, but they do not help themselves? By helping themselves... I am talking about their own disharmony caused and created by themselves when they started the Ban on Dorje Shugden, creating so much separation and disunity, schism, and i am sure negative karma. They get lesser following and lesser support, shooting themselves in foot again.

I am beginning to have this impression that the Tibetans or rather their self-proclaimed govt, CTA, are a bunch of arrogant ignorant people. Their strategy is failing, causing them to have more friction with China, more death in their own people, more blames flying about, and it's basically heading no where. Yet they refuse to change their strategy and approach... must be due to "face". If they humble down, calm their people down and advice their people appropriately, to stop the self-immolation for a start...

Oh sorry, is it too far fetch for CTA cos this would mean they would lose face... so I'm guessing they won't. So continue burning yourself Tibet until there is no more Tibetans if that is what you intend to do... because no one can help if your own exile Govt refuses to help by changing their ways that does not work and has failed.

If CTA does not make a drastic change by end of this month... I think we need to prepared to see fireworks of flamed bodies this coming New Year and it won't be a joyous celebration for Tibet.

Definitely the Nechung prediction is false... and CTA should stop hiding behind a worldly God's skirt and take responsibility for believing it to be in the first place. I thought you were Buddhist?

Ensapa

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Re: Tibet's Freedom is Near
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2012, 10:38:09 AM »
It is almost Christmas... we are in the last month of year 2012... and what we are witnessing is more and more people burning themselves in vain. NO SIGN OF TIBET FREEDOM anywhere NEAR. No SIGN of even PEACE talks between the two. Their age group of self-immolators are getting younger, the youngest so far, 16 years old girl. Their call for help is of a political one, not a self-less act because it is not universally appealing at this moment and definitely not for Buddhism to remain and spread.

They wish the whole world to help them, but they do not help themselves? By helping themselves... I am talking about their own disharmony caused and created by themselves when they started the Ban on Dorje Shugden, creating so much separation and disunity, schism, and i am sure negative karma. They get lesser following and lesser support, shooting themselves in foot again.

I am beginning to have this impression that the Tibetans or rather their self-proclaimed govt, CTA, are a bunch of arrogant ignorant people. Their strategy is failing, causing them to have more friction with China, more death in their own people, more blames flying about, and it's basically heading no where. Yet they refuse to change their strategy and approach... must be due to "face". If they humble down, calm their people down and advice their people appropriately, to stop the self-immolation for a start...


That's because they are not doing anything to regain independence, but rather doing things that are against it. If they want independence so much, shouldnt they be working towards that instead of blaming Dorje Shugden? Although blaming is for sure the easiest way out, but it will not result in anything at the end of the day. The Tibetans are still not free and they are still creating the causes for themselves to be trapped in their current situation -- by simply not doing anything about it or worse, provoking and angering China, or even worse: destroying the basis of Gelug practice by mistreating Dorje Shugden practitioners.