Author Topic: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite  (Read 10021 times)

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« on: September 27, 2012, 04:50:02 PM »
I found this interesting story about this 1000-year-old statue of Jambhala which is carved from a meteorite which used to be owned by the Nazis. It definitely sounded like something from Indiana Jones!

What made me curious was that the article mentions that “its style links it to the pre-Buddhist Bon culture of the 11th century.” Does that mean that Jambhala was part of Bon culture? Another question I had was that does it make a statue more mystical if it is carved from a meteorite?



1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/26/1000-year-old-buddhist-statue-taken-by-nazis-came-from-meteorite/
By Agence France-Presse
Wednesday, September 26, 2012 16:14 EDT

A thousand-year-old Buddhist statue taken from Tibet in 1938 by an SS team seeking the roots of Hitler’s Aryan doctrine was carved from a meteorite, scientists reported on Wednesday.

In a paper published in an academic journal, German and Austrian researchers recount an extraordinary tale where archaeology, the Third Reich and cosmic treasure are intertwined like an Indiana Jones movie.

Called the “Iron Man” because of the high content of iron in its rock, the 24-centimetre (10-inch) -high statue was brought to Germany by an expedition led by Ernst Schaefer, a zoologist and ethnologist.

Backed by SS chief Heinrich Himmler and heading a team whose members are all believed to have been SS, Schaefer roamed Tibet in 1938-9 to search for the origins of Aryanism, the notion of racial superiority that underpinned Nazism.

Weighing 10.6 kilos (23.3 pounds), the statue features the Buddhist god Vaisravana seated, with the palm of his right hand outstretched and pointing downwards.

Chemical analysis shows that the rock from which it was carved came from a meteorite.

The rock survived a long trip through the Solar System and the destructive friction with the atmosphere when it collided with Earth.

It is a particularly rare kind of meteorite called an ataxite, which has iron and high contents of nickel, according to the study, published in the journal Meteoritics and Planetary Science.

“The statue was chiseled from an iron meteorite, from a fragment of the Chinga meteorite which crashed into the border areas between Mongolia and Siberia about 15,000 years ago,” said investigator Elmar Buchner of Stuttgart University.

“While the first debris was officially discovered in 1913 by gold prospectors, we believe that this individual meteorite fragment was collected many centuries before.”

The exact dating of the carving cannot be established accurately, but its style links it to the pre-Buddhist Bon culture of the 11th century.

Vaisravana was the Buddhist god-king of the North, also known as Jambhala in Tibet.

How Schaefer came across the statue is unclear, but the big appeal is likely to have been a large swastika, symbolising good fortune in Buddhism, carved on its chest.

Once the statue arrived in Munich, it became part of a private collection and only became available for study by Buchner following an auction in 2009.

Other meteorites have become incorporated into religious worship. The holy Black Stone in the Kaaba in Mecca is believed to be a stony meteorite.

“The Iron Man statue is the only known illustration of a human figure to be carved into a meteorite, which means we have nothing to compare it to when assessing value,” said Buchner.

“Its origins alone may value it at $20,000 (15,500 euros). However, if our estimation of its age is correct and it is nearly a thousand years old it could be invaluable.”
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2012, 06:11:22 AM »
After reading the article yesterday, I was curious about Vaisravana so i googled it and found the excerpts from a Wikipedia article below. In the introduction from wikipedia, it says in the first sentence that Vaisravana is "also known as Namtösé", and "another name of his, Jambhala" but "Nam Te Se. (???????????? or ????????) is not Dzambala".

Is Namtösé the same as Nam Te Se? I tried googling for more info on “Nam Te Se” but it just redirects back to Wikipedia as the reference. It’s just a bit confusing for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vai%C5%9Brava%E1%B9%87a
Vaisravana

Vai?rava?a (Sanskrit ???????) or Vessava?a (P?li ???????, Sinhala ????????) also known as Namtösé in Tibet and Bishamonten in Japan is the name of the chief of the Four Heavenly Kings and an important figure in Buddhist mythology.

Names

The name Vai?rava?a is a v?ddhi derivative (used, e.g., for patronymics) of the Sankrit proper name Vi?rava?a from the root vi-?ru "hear distinctly", (passive) "become famous".The name Vai?rava?a is derived from the Sankrit vi?rava?a which means "son of Vishrava", a usual epithet of the Hindu god Kubera.Vai?rava?a is also known as Kubera (Sanskrit) or Kuvera (P?li), and as Jambhala (Sanskrit).

Other names include:
??? (simplified characters: ???): Chinese Du? Wén Ti?n, Korean Damuncheon (???), Japanese Tamonten, Vietnamese ?a V?n Thiên. The characters mean "Much hearing god" or "Deity who hears much".
????: Chinese Písh?mén Ti?n, Korean Bisamuncheon (????), Japanese Bishamonten, Vietnamese T? Sa Môn Thiên. This is a representation of the sound of the Sanskrit name in Chinese (Vai?rava? ? Pishamen) plus the character for "heaven" or "god".
Tibetan: ??????????? (rnam.thos.sras [Namthöse])
Mongolian: (????) ??????? (Bayan) Namsrai
Thai: ????????? or ????????????? (Thao Kuwen or Thao Vessuwan)
Tamil: Vaicciravanan
Filipino: Bathala

In Tibet, Vai?rava?a is considered a worldly dharmap?la or protector of the Dharma, a member of the retinue of Ratnasambhava. He is also known as the King of the North. As guardian of the north, he is often depicted on temple murals outside the main door. He is also thought of as a god of wealth. As such, Vai?rava?a is sometimes portrayed carrying a citron, the fruit of the jambhara tree, a pun on another name of his, Jambhala (Skt. jambhala; Tibetan ???????? and pronounced Jambhala or Zambala). The fruit helps distinguish him iconically from depictions of Kuvera. He is sometimes represented as corpulent and covered with jewels. When shown seated, his right foot is generally pendant and supported by a lotus-flower on which is a conch shell. His mount is a snow lion.
Nam Te Se. (???????????? or ????????) is not Dzambala. Nam Te is the king, and Dzambala is one of his ranking ministers. Nam Te Se has eight ranks, and Dzambala is one of these ranks.
Tibetan Buddhists consider Jambhala's sentiment regarding wealth to be providing freedom by way of bestowing prosperity, so that one may focus on the path or spirituality rather than on the materiality and temporality of that wealth.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2012, 06:13:43 AM »
How strange.. after i copied and pasted the funny characters, I even did a preview to see if they would show up, the characters showed up properly. But after i posted, it became all smiley faces etc. Sorry about that.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being

rossoneri

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
    • Email
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2012, 10:15:16 AM »
Where Do Stone Meteorites
Come From?

Take a pensive look outside the window of your car while you are driving, or better yet, watch the hills, valleys and plains roll by as you travel on-board a train or airplane. The landscape that reveals itself to us is, obviously, only the surface of our home planet. In geologic terms it is our planet's crust, which a dictionary might define as "the outermost solid layer of a planet or moon." The outer crust of our planet is very different from other bodies in the Solar System, as it is rich in oxygen and water. Our planet's surface has been shaped and altered by the relentless action of rain, wind, and ice. In addition many of the sedimentary rocks that make up the Earth's crust are rich in fossils -the remains of ancient life forms-but so far no fossil record of life on other planets has been discovered. With the enormous tectonic plates that make up the Earth's crust moving, causing earthquakes and volcanic eruptions, the ground we stand upon is constantly changing. So, one might use a little artistic license and say that our planet is living, in addition to being unique in the Solar System.

What Are Meteorites?

Most meteorites that have fallen upon our planet originated within the Asteroid Belt, which lies between Mars and the gas giant Jupiter. A comparatively small number of meteorites are known to have come to us from two of our closest neighbors-Mars, and our own moon. A few specialists have theorized the some meteorites may even be remnants of comet nuclei. However, the vast majority of stone meteorites were once part of the crust of asteroids. Cosmic collisions caused some of these wandering space nomads to break up, hurling fragments in different directions. Some of this debris crossed our planet's path, hitting the atmosphere at thousands of miles per hour, burning briefly in the cold, thin air and producing the spectacle we call meteors or shooting stars. Those that survive to land on the surface are known as meteorites.

Tammy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 319
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2012, 09:19:27 AM »
Quoted from WisdomBeing:
“The statue was chiseled from an iron meteorite, from a fragment of the Chinga meteorite which crashed into the border areas between Mongolia and Siberia about 15,000 years ago,” said investigator Elmar Buchner of Stuttgart University.

“While the first debris was officially discovered in 1913 by gold prospectors, we believe that this individual meteorite fragment was collected many centuries before.”

The exact dating of the carving cannot be established accurately, but its style links it to the pre-Buddhist Bon culture of the 11th century.


This is interesting! What proof did the report had that the statue was chiseled from the meteorite? Could it had been carved into the statue before it was sent to planet earth together with the meteorite??

IF the statue was carved in outer space and was sent to planet earth, does it proof the existence of living beings in outer space and, more importantly, that Buddhas are from or reside in outer space ? Is pure land somewhere out there in the milky ways or it is in our mind ??
Down with the BAN!!!

hope rainbow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 947
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2012, 12:45:43 PM »
That the statue is carved from a meteorite does not make it more precious from a spiritual point of view, it does not make it more "blessed" or more valuable.

Yet the rarity of the material used indicates the importance that the carver or patron of this statue gave to what the statue represents.

Rare meteorite, gold, precious stones, etc... when they are used to make a statue representing Buddha qualities then it make these qualities more important than any secular options (*) that the material may give its owner.

(*) a holiday, a pool for the garden, a new car, etc...

Big Uncle

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1995
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2012, 09:15:06 PM »
I think the statue is unusual because of the detailing. The deity wears the armor of a Mongol General and sports a beard and hood of a Mongol . I didn't think it could be so old but it is and it is interesting to know that Buddhism arrive in these parts of the world so early on. It is amazing that Mongolia got converted to Buddhism during the time of Sakya Pandita (early incarnation of Dorje Shugden) and also the 3rd Dalai Lama Sonam Gyatso.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

WisdomBeing

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2096
    • Add me to your facebook!
Re: 1,000-year old Buddhist statue taken by Nazis came from meteorite
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2012, 06:31:48 PM »
This is the latest development on this issue. What I find interesting is that why would someone carve a ‘fake’ statue out of some (I would presume) rare and possible expensive meteorite.  If it is a statue of European origin, why would they have created a ‘Tibetan’ image albeit iconographically incorrect?

Surely the forgers would make sure that it would be an accurate depiction in order to maximize profit from their effort? So lie the questions, who did it and why?


'SPACE BUDDHA' STATUE MAY BE A FAKE
http://news.discovery.com/history/meteorite-buddha-fake-121025.html
New analysis suggests the statue carved from a meteorite may have been carved between 1910 and 1970.

A supposed Buddhist statue allegedly carved from a meteorite 1,000 years ago may not be as ancient as suspected, according to a Buddhism expert who argues that the statue may be a 20th-century fake.

The criticisms don't target the material the statue is carved from, which is an iron- and nickel-rich meteorite from the Siberia-Mongolia border. But outside experts are questioning the statue's origins.

Achim Bayer, a Buddhism expert at Dongguk University in South Korea, argues in a new report that the Buddha statue has obvious "pseudo-Tibetan features," marking it as a European reproduction likely made between 1910 and 1970.

Among these features are European-like shoes that come to the ankles rather than boots; trousers instead of robes; tube-shaped sleeves unlike those seen on traditional Tibetan or Mongolian garb; a full beard, which is not seen on Tibetan and Mongolian deity sculptures; an unusual single earring; and a cape that resembles one worn by Romans rather than ancient Tibetan deities.

In their original paper published in the journal Meteoritics & Planetary Science, Stuttgart University researcher Elmar Bucher and colleagues reported that the Buddha statue first came to Germany after a 1938-1939 Tibet expedition by zoologist and ethnologist Ernst Schäfer, who was sent to the region by the Nazi party to find the origin of Aryan language and culture. The statue then passed into the hands of a private owner. (Fallen Stars: A Gallery of Famous Meteorites)

NEWS: Meteorites Pummeled Earth, Delivering Gold

But the researchers also warned that the estimates of the age of the statue -- which they pegged around 1,000 years -- were preliminary and welcomed comments by cultural scholars.

"I am happy to provide such information," Bayer wrote in his report, available online.

Beyond the origins of the statue, Bayer also called into question the idea that it was brought to Germany by a Nazi expedition in the late 1930s. Isrun Engelhardt, a German historian who has studied these expeditions, told Bayer that the controversial statue likely did not arrive in Germany in Nazi hands.

Bayer suspects the statue was either produced for the antique market or for the Nazi memorabilia market, with the expedition story meant to increase the value of the statue.
Kate Walker - a wannabe wisdom Being