SHAR GANDEN & SERPOM MONASTERIES ARE HEADING THE WRONG WAY!

[Big Uncle]

Some people are missing the whole point. We shouldn't mix religion and politics. But that is very utopian and idealistic. Where there is people, everything will be mixed up and it can't be helped. So we have to be realistic. The reality is Shugden practitioners are involved with politics and so is everyone else. The very fact people want Tibet back is politics already. If we are going to practice dharma, then we have no country, name, identity, projections. We just settle down anywhere and do our meditations. Kinda of enlightenment or bust what Buddha did under the bodhi tree. 

Six million people obtaining independence/autonomy of Tibet is much more important than worshipping a Shugden spirit that creates division. Maybe Shugden himself doesn't create the division, but his worship alienates those from the mainstream. It's the very people who worship him choose to be alienated that become the division. It's better to choose Dalai Lama over Shugden and become united. With every leader there are policies we like and don't like, but we have to look at the bigger agenda and outcome which is Tibetan independence/autonomy. This division does not create a united front. It is important to get Tibet back. It is not important to worship Shugden and break up the Tibetan people. It is better to be united even if it takes abandoning Shugden in order to get Tibet back. Getting Tibet back to the people who are the rightful owners is much more important than Shugden.

Just follow the wisdom filled visionary instructions of HHDL to get Tibet back. 

That is a very interesting but a warped thinking, not to mention archaic. I think what you are thinking is shared by many Dalai Lama stalwarts. Tibetan society is probably the only society left who thinks that religion and politics can mix. I think that is why the Tibetan does not and will not be able to reclaim its own homeland. Just think, which country in the world would tolerate such blatant religious discrimination. Even the Chinese with all their communistic ideology, would allow its people to practice as long as it does not threaten social and political stability.

Now, it is not the practice of Shugden that divides people but the ban on Dorje Shugden that causes division. You are Buddhist. How can you ask practitioners to forsake their lineage for a superficial unity of the Tibetan people? As long as the ban remains, I say that the ban alone causes more harm to Tibetan independence than anything else in TIbetan society. If I were the Chinese, I wouldn't just laugh at the CTA for its archaic religious ban and will in fact use it to denounce the current Central Tibetan Administration as archaic, discriminatory and ineffective in leading the minuscule Tibetan community in exile.

[samayakeeper]

CTA should just forget about autonomy for Tibet, it has already been decades and there is no sign for it. The new generation of Tibetans are now settled in other parts of the world, countries where opportunities abound. I do not think the majority of them would uproot again and move back to Tibet if autonomy is given. I would not especially if Tibet is to be governed by CTA.

Sure, for Gaden Shartse and Shar Gaden to become one again would be good. Why not Gaden Shartse join Shar Gaden? Gaden Shartse is not attracting new sponsors compared to Shar Gaden. Sponsorship is important for without it would be a struggle for a monastery to provide more materials needed for the existing and new monks to continue learning and practicing dharma. Even to maintain the existing amenities and sangha may be a struggle right now.

[Tammy]

Call me simple-minded, call me stupid, call me whatever you want - but I just can't understand --> what about freedom of religion? Mr Tenzin Gyatso (are you THE Tenzin Gyatso??) if you so strongly want Shar Gaden and Serpom to just vanish from the surface of the earth, you SHOULD remember WHY they were formed in the first place!

They were formed because SOMEONE threw freedom of religion out of his window and ordered, commanded his followers to STOP the practice of mighty Dorje Shugden! These monks who believe in freedom to choose what and to whom to they pray - stood up and leave... NOW they are doing much better than those who had chosen to stay... WHAT do you have t say to this ??

Just lift the ban - one simple statement from your office and CTA and you would have created vast positive karma... oops, sorry sorry who am I to remind you on this ??
 

[Ensapa]

Some people are missing the whole point. We shouldn't mix religion and politics. But that is very utopian and idealistic. Where there is people, everything will be mixed up and it can't be helped. So we have to be realistic. The reality is Shugden practitioners are involved with politics and so is everyone else. The very fact people want Tibet back is politics already. If we are going to practice dharma, then we have no country, name, identity, projections. We just settle down anywhere and do our meditations. Kinda of enlightenment or bust what Buddha did under the bodhi tree. 

Six million people obtaining independence/autonomy of Tibet is much more important than worshipping a Shugden spirit that creates division. Maybe Shugden himself doesn't create the division, but his worship alienates those from the mainstream. It's the very people who worship him choose to be alienated that become the division. It's better to choose Dalai Lama over Shugden and become united. With every leader there are policies we like and don't like, but we have to look at the bigger agenda and outcome which is Tibetan independence/autonomy. This division does not create a united front. It is important to get Tibet back. It is not important to worship Shugden and break up the Tibetan people. It is better to be united even if it takes abandoning Shugden in order to get Tibet back. Getting Tibet back to the people who are the rightful owners is much more important than Shugden.

Just follow the wisdom filled visionary instructions of HHDL to get Tibet back. 

Oh this is just gold! the gold standard of Buddhist comedy!!! The needs of the Tibetans is more important than the rest of the needs of the world!! Why? In what way are they more important than the rest of the world, and whether or not the rest of the world understands Tibetan culture and Tibetan Buddhism is irrelevant, but them getting back that piece of land is more important than everything else?

CTA is  not ready to rule Tibet again. Tibet is a huge country and as such there are many people who stay in Tibet who do not wish to suffer and who requires more than just spiritual sustenance. They need to survive, work for a living, provide their families and have education for their children and future generations for the survival of the Tibetan race and culture. Can CTA provide that?

Look at Dharamsala. It still looks like it is stuck in time, as if it was still the 70s and also the sewerage system there is horrible. CTA is not doing anything to improve the living conditions of the people there, so what makes you think they can take over Tibet and run it efficiently that the people do not suffer from poor management and lack of infrastructure? If they cant manage Dharamsala, surely they cannot manage Lhasa.

I guess you are also not aware that pre-occupied tibet was using laws that were composed during Songsten Gampo's time till now, where people caught stealing will have their hands chopped off, people suspected of anarchy will have their eyes gouged off and horrendous punishments that we can still read in some biographies...HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT CTA WILL NOT REPEAT THIS? They already are in a way with the ban...

[kris]

If we are talking about religion only and not politics, then the reasons HH Dalai Lama gave about not practicing Dorje Shugde do not make sense too.

For example, Trijang Rinpoche is tutor of HH Dalai Lama, who also give HH Dalai Lama the Dorje Shugden practice along with so many other practices. If Trijang Rinpoche is wrong about Dorje Shugden, then He should also discard all other practices by Trijang Rinpoche. There are just so many such arguments from religious aspect alone.

Also, Tibetan who choose to follow guru instructions in practicing Dorje Shugden suffer a lot. They are denied basic necessities. If Dalai Lama has compassion, He should not make His own people suffer. Dalai Lama can accept people who do not believe in Buddha, but I don't understand why He cannot accept people who follow their Guru's instruction on a deity who has been practiced for hundreds of year..

If Dalai Lama wants to unite the people, then He should stop the ban and unite the people first.

[DharmaSpace]

I do respect the Tibet and Tibetan culture and people for hosting Buddha Dharma and the teachings so that when the Moguls decimated Buddhism in India and caused it demise the teachings was preserved in Tibet for the benefit of future generations. None of us would have access to Buddhism if not for the work and sacrifice of the Tibetans to bring dharma to Tibet.  But having said that, perhaps the time for Tibet and Tibetans to preserve the Dharma may not lie with them anymore as Buddhism spreads to the West and other parts of Asia and the world. We are really more concerned about the preservation of Buddhism rather than the independence of Tibet or its people. Who knows the Tibetans now could be the Chinese Soldiers who first invaded Tibet in the 50's. 

[Dolce Vita]

A spiritual practitioner should be focusing on spiritual practice, not wordly thing like the independence of a country. The welfare they are concerned is the spiritual welfare not social welfare.

What does gaining independence bring to a spiritual practitioner? So that they can practise in their 'home'? If so, does 'home' bring them faster to enlightenment? I remembered Atisha studied Boddhicitta in Indonesia, not in his home country and he was attained after 12 years of study.

I do not think Dorje Shugden practitioners create the division among Tibetans,  it was until HHDL imposed the ban Tibetan people started to separate themselves between the 2 groups and monks were forced to give up the practice by the government. It has never happened in our modern world that a government put their failure onto a group of spiritual practitioners and spend so much time and effort to suppress them instead of making improvement on the welfare of their people such as education, medical, etc.

Now, every Vajrayana practitioner should know Guru Devotion is the most important element to gain attainment. Unless it was an instruction from the guru, otherwise we do not give up a practice passed down to us from our guru. HHDL is not the guru to everyone in the monastery, he is not the guru to every Tibetan. At the spiritual level, his instruction to give up DS practice does not have to be followed at all, this does not mean he is not respected. At the secular level, all Tibetans including monks should listen to him, that I agree.

So I do not think Shar Ganden and Serpom Monastery are heading to the wrong way. They do this because they are devoted to their Guru, they are keeping the practice given by their gurus no matter what happens. They did not hurt others in the process of separating themselves, they did not say bad things about other people, they did not use violence to make their stance. They choose to be separated so that they can do their practice in peace.

[Ensapa]

You know this post title makes me laugh quite a bit because there is just so many indications, reasons and proof that Shar Ganden and Serpom is going the right way and once again it is pretty amazing that you can miss them out and immediately say that they are wrong and without any solid proof or reason to back them up, just because they support Dorje Shugden.

If Shar Ganden and Serpom were heading the wrong way, why would Penor Rinpoche support them? Yes. There was a story here: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2874 on him lending his support to Shar Ganden and Serpom. So does that mean he is wrong?!?!?!?!? but he was the representative of the Nyingmas so how could he be wrong. I would really LOVE to hear your reasoning to why he supported Shar Ganden and Serpom.

If Shar Ganden and Serpom was heading the wrong way, why are the other Dharma protectors not destroying them or creating things so that they cannot manifest or cannot last long? It's been 2-3 years already and they are still going strong and not only that, more and more people are sending in their kids to these monasteries to be taught as monks because the quality of education is just much higher.

If Shar Ganden and Serpom was heading the wrong way, wouldnt Nechung be able to close it down since he is against Dorje Shugden anyways and he is very very powerful and HHDL's personal protector but why isnt he not doing so? These  are just of the very few things that is perplexing about your statement that they are heading the wrong way because everything else points otherwise.

[Vajraprotector]

I think Shar Gaden is a shining example. Despite being ostracised from their monastery, they managed to sustain themselves to this day on their own, with all social/ community pressure to reform them.  These are people we should respect, like how the great masters escaped Tibet and persisted in rebuilding the great monasteries in India from scratch.

Shar Gaden monks are practitioners who follow and uphold their commitment to their Gurus of not giving up the practise despite being viewed as “going against” the highest authority in secular (in the past) and religious affair, and a Bodhisattva.  Imagine “going against” a Bodhisattva to keep your commitment, and it shows how strong real guru devotion is.

On the contrary, the rest of the monasteries are seemingly giving up the practice their lineage Gurus have carefully preserved and passed down and suck up to the authority for “bread and butter” and convenience?

I think the Tibetan legacy should be Tibetan Buddhism, the “Shangri-la” of holy monks in maroon robes spending their days and nights studying the Buddhadharma and keeping their vows purely, not the Tibetan diaspora famous for protests and self-immolation with half century of Prime Minister Nehru’s lease to go. I’d choose Shar Gaden/ Serpom anytime.

[Ensapa]

I think Shar Gaden is a shining example. Despite being ostracised from their monastery, they managed to sustain themselves to this day on their own, with all social/ community pressure to reform them.  These are people we should respect, like how the great masters escaped Tibet and persisted in rebuilding the great monasteries in India from scratch.

Shar Gaden monks are practitioners who follow and uphold their commitment to their Gurus of not giving up the practise despite being viewed as “going against” the highest authority in secular (in the past) and religious affair, and a Bodhisattva.  Imagine “going against” a Bodhisattva to keep your commitment, and it shows how strong real guru devotion is.

On the contrary, the rest of the monasteries are seemingly giving up the practice their lineage Gurus have carefully preserved and passed down and suck up to the authority for “bread and butter” and convenience?

I think the Tibetan legacy should be Tibetan Buddhism, the “Shangri-la” of holy monks in maroon robes spending their days and nights studying the Buddhadharma and keeping their vows purely, not the Tibetan diaspora famous for protests and self-immolation with half century of Prime Minister Nehru’s lease to go. I’d choose Shar Gaden/ Serpom anytime.

It is not easy also for the monasteries to decide. They have to take care of the welfare of many monks and if they make the wrong move, the monks will suffer as a result of their decisions. Therefore, for the welfare of the whole monastery they might need to take political moves so that the rest of the monastery does not suffer so we cannot entirely blame them for their actions.

But for survival, is it necessary to force all the monks to swear in? is it necessary to print flyers in Drepung that talks about why Dorje Shugden is bad (and Setrap gave them a sign by destroying their victory banner with lightning AND appearing in trance the next day with a nice warning) and kicking out old monks out to the street, monks who have served the sangha tirelessly for so many decades?!

If they wish to comply with the ban for survival I can understand but why the unnecessary reactions and stuff towards it? It would have been sufficient for the monasteries just to tell these Lamas to not practice openly and not spread rumors and make it so dramatic in more ways than one, and the result in the suffering of so many senior monks. Unless of course some zealot CTA official is forcing them.

Shar Ganden and Serpom are necessary at this point of time, coz if not, the lamas who were kicked out have nowhere to go and they will suffer needlessly and Ganden, Sera and Drepung would have committed much negative karma as monasteries are supposed to protect the monks and not harm them. If the monks are harmed, they would have negative repercussions so Serpom and Shar Ganden softens it.

[Positive Change]

Shar Ganden belongs to Ganden Shartze Monastery. They should never have seperated. If they were correct, then all of Ganden monks should have become Shar Ganden incumbents. How come only part of the monks left, because the majority realized Shugden is wrong. If you say the monks are afraid of HHDL, then take a look at Shar Gaden now. Is anyone harming them? Not HHDL or any of the CTA. They only harm themselves by being traitorous to their secular leader HHDL.

1. They monks of Shar Ganden did not "leave", they were ostracized and literally "pushed out" for not conforming! There was really no choice apart from division.
2. The harm comes from the secular and spiritual lines being blurred. If CTA issues statements stating businesses and the like cannot serve fellow Tibetans without valid passes/ID which can only be obtained if one denounces Dorje Shugden practice is plain preposterous and downright rude!

Shar Ganden Monastery is a bad example for Tibet's movement of gaining autonmomy from China. They show a disunited front. What is more important, the practice of Shugden (which there is an alternative-Kalarupa) or the freedom of the 6 million Tibetan nation (there is no alternative)?

Why on earth should a monastery be involved in political movements to begin with? Political and Spiritual should be separate and the lines NEVER blurred. Blurred lines create the causes for unjust implementations like the ban to exist. If a stable and strong political stance is made, the ban surely cannot encroach into lives of the Tibetan population as it has, because discrimination has no place in the exercising the rights of the Tibetan people.

Do not talk about freedom of a nation where there cannot even be freedom of spiritual practice. Why have Tibetans not gained their motherland back? Because there is no unity and no causes for there to be a country. Division is a clear sign of disharmony and disharmony is a direct antithesis of a country.

All Tibetans should unite to gain the Tibetan nation back or die trying. Shugden should be abandoned for the sake of national unity and work together to get autonomy back before HHDL passes away. He is the only hope for the 6 million. Why would anyone not want their land back? The land of their ancestors should be more of a priority than the worship of Shugden.

Unity? How can there be unity when there is no freedom of expression, freedom of exercising one's religious convictions? All of which does not harm anyone really. It is but an individual goal and practice! If not for the ban, Tibetans are ALL for HHDL... it is evident in the past... The reason why Tibetans are divided is THE BAN. Remove the ban and perhaps unity will return!

To pick Shugden is to go against HHDL who is trying to gain autonomy for Tibet which is more than the Shar Ganden monks are doing. Shar Ganden monks are doing nothing for Tibet and the Tibetan people. They should realize their position in India is unsure and unstable without HHDL in the future.  Therefore to pick Shugden is to pick China over Tibet's autonomy and the welfare of the 6 million. Why would you NOT pick the welfare of 6 million by not practicing Shugden. Shugden is for yourself (if he benefits at all) and Tibet is for everyone. Buddhism teaches us to pick the majority over the oneself such as tonglen practices.

Once again a silly correlation between spiritual and political. One can spin anything to one's advantage in this day an age. Sad!

Shar Ganden shows a bad example. The monks are wrong. The sponsors who assist Shar Ganden are wrong. The guests who visit or stay in Shar Ganden Monastery are all wrong. Shar Ganden and Serpom Monasteries' existence is tantamount to saying Tibet is a part of China and you don't want autonomy. Autonomy of Tibet is more important than Shugden worship.

Shar Ganden should apologize to HHDL and sangha of Ganden Shartze Monastery and return. Reunite. Reunite and become one and strong again. It is not too late.

Everything I said about Shar Ganden applies exactly the same to Serpom Monastery. They should return to Sera Mhey Monastery immediately.

If it were really wrong, why are there even sponsors? Surely sponsors are not blind. Surely people are not as disillusioned as you make them out to be. And once again why the same boring equation of practising Dorje Shugden being tantamount to supporting China. China did not even know of Dorje Shugden BEFORE the ban, hence how is the ban connected at all? Think!

Shar Ganden Monastery and Serpom Monastery are heading the wrong way. Wrong message spiritually and wrong direction for the nation of Tibet and Tibetans. Shar Ganden and Serpom should really cease their wrong stance immediately. Wrong way can become the right way again. 

Yes finally I am in agreement with you.... the wrong can become right... just remove the ban!