Author Topic: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others  (Read 20346 times)

WoselTenzin

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Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« on: September 29, 2011, 03:39:20 PM »
I have read somewhere that says the true measure of progress in our spiritual practice is when we do not react negatively towards others no matter how badly they treat us or how they have wronged us.  Instead, in spite of everything we should feel compassion for them.  We accept defeat and offer the victory to others always. 

When we are able to do that our "enemy" and our "problems" from our point of view disappears. We become peaceful and happy.  And this is a proven method to happiness and great masters of the past are testimony to the success of this practice. Since this is the case, why is it that everyone wants happiness but finds it so difficult to practice accept defeat and offering the victory to others? Why is it we lack faith in such practice? Very often, we don't seem to believe it works. Why?

 

hope rainbow

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 09:51:23 AM »
Dear Wosel Tenzin, let me give you my thoughts on this subject:

It appears to be so much more comfortable to be right, or should I be more explicit to be seen as right from others (for "to be" right is an extreme statement).
And when the others see their actions as wrong on top of seeing our actions as right, this is BANCO!
We are virtually in control of others, that is at least how a bias mind understands the situation.

1. I AM RIGHT, THE OTHERS ARE WRONG.
2. THE OTHERS RECOGNIZE THAT I AM RIGHT.
3. THE OTHERS RECOGNIZE THAT THEY ARE WRONG.

That is a process that feeds our ego with poisonous self-righteousness.
Because we are so self-indulged, we can only like it when steps 1,2 and 3 above occur; and then the step 4. is very simple: we abuse the situation without even knowing it, because we are right!  Right?
I speak for myself for I know when I encounter the above 3 steps, I feel at ease.

A wise person would know better than that and would understand the dangers for us to have our ego inflated: we get blind to others.
And indeed, we create a world in which everyone that agrees with us comes in and those that don't: OUT!
Not realistic, not wise, for there is NOTHING nor NOBODY that is not part of our existence.

diamond girl

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2011, 07:08:50 PM »
Defeat is something no one accepts. Victory is something everyone wants. This is a fact. So, when you hear a teaching to "Accept defeat and offer the Victory to Others" - this sends our mental state and social standards and belief system UPSIDE DOWN!!! The ego goes into overdrive fighting this teaching!

Yes, the need to be right dominates how we behave so very much.

When I understood the meaning of this teaching, there was relief in me. Being "Right" is tiring. Having to always "fight" to make yourself heard and right. Standing up and resisting to others because in wanting to be "Right" one does not listen. When we do not listen we do not engage and build good relationships.

Accepting defeat does not mean you lose... Giving victory to others does not mean we lose.

By accepting defeat we can learn from our mistakes and open up room for improvement. This can gain respect and earn us humility. When you give the victory to others, we break the resistance and the stance to defend to be Right. Plus we empower people because when people are not wronged for expressing something contradictory to us, it opens up space for communication, learning, engagement and so much more can be created.

This is what I understand and have been learning daily to accept defeat and offer the victory to others... I have learnt and grown to be a better person practicing this.

vajrastorm

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2011, 11:13:58 PM »
It would appear that when we accept defeat, we are letting the other person win.

However, when we think about it, the victory is ours. We have actually defeated our ego(which always insists on us winning over others). Our ego is our worst enemy and we have vanquished it when we give the victory to others. 

WoselTenzin

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2011, 11:35:05 AM »
Letting others win does not necessarily mean we are wrong but it's more of not letting our ego get the better of us to always want to be right and in the process create suffering for others and ourselves.

If we always want to be right, we may offend others and create enemies. We will also be stucked with our old ways of doing things which may not have worked for us in the first place. Letting others win creates peace and open up a whole new possibility of other ways of thinking or doing things which may be better for us in the long run. After all we can also be wrong.

Whether one is right or wrong, what others say or insist will not change the facts. There is really no need to impose our views on others.  Wrong or right after all is a matter of perception.  Furthermore, different perception could have arisen from different basis.  When we are able to look at situations objectively, many conflicts can be avoided and harmony can prevail.   

If we analyze with logic why we should accept defeat and offer the victory to others, faith in this practice will arise and we will be inspired to put it into practice.  Easier said than done but the sages of the past cannot be wrong. So no harm putting it into practice and see the results for ourselves.

KhedrubGyatso

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2011, 07:48:49 AM »
To offer victory wholeheartedly, we need to have a reversal of our fundamental views about what matters in our life. If we still hang on to worldly ideas of gain such as in material possessions, name, status etc then it will be very difficult to practice this wisdom. We will not be able to dissociate ourselves from the feeling of loss. However, if we understand that giving up these worldly concerns for externals lead to a gain in true permanent happiness and freedom from suffering it will make us more determined to practice.
The difficult part is our habituation. Most of our actions are impulsive or instinctive. Sometimes  we do have some control of our negative emotions and able to prevent negativities from being acted out. But this happens usually when the issues are not big ones.
Our main experience of happiness is the temporary kind so far . To change our views and thoughts to practice something we are unfamiliar with requires lots of faith, effort and perseverance before it can produce results which are clearly superior to those achieved via old ways.

triesa

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 12:25:31 AM »
After reading this thread, I was wondering how many times in a day we are trying to be right or proof a point that we are better and smarter than others during our interactions.

It seems that these incidences happen all the time either on a subtle level as well as on a more obvious level.

I guess "accepting defeat and offering the victory to others" does not mean that we always have to be quiet or act indifferently. I believe it is more of how we present our views, and we should always remember that "OUR" views are based on "OUR" experience and "OUR" perceptions of matters whereas others will always have "THEIR" views based on "THEIR" experience and "THEIR" perceptions on matters. Sometimes "OURS" and "THEIRS" are the same, and sometimes, these may different.

I believe if  we have this basis in everything we do in life, even differences can be  viewed as interesting and mind opening, and a learning process as well.

Just my 2 cents of opinion.

Galen

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 10:00:56 AM »
From the day we were born till now, we have been conditioned to have a winning attitude where I win and others lose. It has been embedded in our minds so much that offering victory to others seems so difficult. We must win all the time. That is why people find it hard to accept defeat as it makes them lose face or their ego is hurt.

For me, it is a practice. Offering victory to others does not mean that we lose. It could be a winning situation for both parties. And it takes a "big" person to be able to let the other party win. By doing this, we are practicing compassion or at least a small step towards a compassionate mind. I would not say that it is easy but it a start to transform our mind.

By letting others win also may make it easier for them to accept our views in the future as they may see it that we respect their views and therefore will respect ours.

Klein

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2011, 10:01:21 AM »
I have read somewhere that says the true measure of progress in our spiritual practice is when we do not react negatively towards others no matter how badly they treat us or how they have wronged us.  Instead, in spite of everything we should feel compassion for them.  We accept defeat and offer the victory to others always. 

When we are able to do that our "enemy" and our "problems" from our point of view disappears. We become peaceful and happy.  And this is a proven method to happiness and great masters of the past are testimony to the success of this practice. Since this is the case, why is it that everyone wants happiness but finds it so difficult to practice accept defeat and offering the victory to others? Why is it we lack faith in such practice? Very often, we don't seem to believe it works. Why?

Does this mean that we should let people who commit crimes get away with their crimes?  If so, wouldn't that send the wrong message that it's ok to commit crimes?

Tenzin K

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 04:27:00 PM »
This is not an easy thing that I can do. Not to say that I want the victory but just don't like to be the defeated one or the wrong one.

Our EGO will always come up when any argument arises and sometimes it's not our mind controlling our speech but our EGO that talk.

Accepting defeat doesn't really mean that we accept the wrong on our self but it is to lowered down our self EGO for not causing any or further damages to others. We would not want to win but to see others suffer, this is not Buddhist practice.

 

dorjedakini

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 06:37:17 PM »
I have read somewhere that says the true measure of progress in our spiritual practice is when we do not react negatively towards others no matter how badly they treat us or how they have wronged us.  Instead, in spite of everything we should feel compassion for them.  We accept defeat and offer the victory to others always. 

When we are able to do that our "enemy" and our "problems" from our point of view disappears. We become peaceful and happy.  And this is a proven method to happiness and great masters of the past are testimony to the success of this practice. Since this is the case, why is it that everyone wants happiness but finds it so difficult to practice accept defeat and offering the victory to others? Why is it we lack faith in such practice? Very often, we don't seem to believe it works. Why?

Does this mean that we should let people who commit crimes get away with their crimes?  If so, wouldn't that send the wrong message that it's ok to commit crimes?

The person might get away from it now, but his karma will catch up one day. Karma is very fair and non stop creating, ripening...

Giving victory to other does not mean that we let them continue to hurt others. I think it is also us to let go. We should still report the person if the create any crime but with a calmer and peaceful mind, knowing that this will help them in the future, stopping them from creating more negative karma and hurting others.

Besides, if we can offer the victory, we ourselves are sending a good message that we can be more compassionate than what we think.

pgdharma

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2011, 02:20:53 PM »
" Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others" - we know that is the right thing to do but it is so difficult to put into practice. Why is it so? Because our EGO is so big that we refused to accept defeat  even though we know we are wrong and we go into a denial state. Always fighting and proving  that we are right even though we are wrong is tiring, time consuming and non productive. Besides that we are also collecting negative karma. However, if the other person is wrong and that person thinks he/she is right and even after explaining or arguing with him/her bears no result, just let the other person win. Karma will catch up.

For me it is to put this mind transformation into my daily practice and eventually learn to cut down my ego and be a better person.


Midakpa

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2011, 04:38:45 PM »
This is a very hard practice but if we can do it, the victory is ours. We will conquer our delusions and lay the foundation for the Bodhisattva path. We will purify our negative karma and generate a lot of merits. By offering the victory to others, we are actually developing compassion. We must not be attached to external results and react negatively when others treat us out of delusions. When they treat us badly, this is the time to practise Dharma as our guru has taught us.

negra orquida

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 05:13:47 PM »
Quote
When we are able to do that our "enemy" and our "problems" from our point of view disappears. We become peaceful and happy.  And this is a proven method to happiness and great masters of the past are testimony to the success of this practice. Since this is the case, why is it that everyone wants happiness but finds it so difficult to practice accept defeat and offering the victory to others? Why is it we lack faith in such practice? Very often, we don't seem to believe it works. Why?

I think some of the reasons why we don't really believe "offering the victory to others" works and why it is difficult for us to practice offering the victory and accepting defeat are:

  • We have been conditioned since young that there is absolute right and absolute wrong, and being right = rewarded while being wrong = punished.
    We mistake that verse to mean "I think I am right but I let you win", hence the real happiness that comes with practising it properly cannot be experienced, and therefore it does not really "work" for us.
    We cannot equate "losing" in the worldly sense with "gaining" spiritually.
    We think our happiness is more important than the other person's (whom we should offer the victory to) happiness.

Personally, I try to put this verse into practice when I argue with someone. I noticed that the longer I hold on to the view that "I am right! How can they do this to me? They should apologise to me because they are wrong to hurt me like this!" the longer I feel angry and upset.  Then I remember about this verse, I feel humbled and "deflated" and my heart opens (literally can feel this) up to consider the other person's perspective... and remember that I am the cause for the anger that arises within me, not the other person... then I would apologize to the person.  When this happens all the negative emotions slips away like sand through my fingers.

bambi

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Re: Accepting Defeat and Offering the Victory to Others
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 05:19:46 PM »
Ever since I got the chance to understand Dharma, I realized it is easy said than done but that does not mean that we can't change how we react.  I've learned to slowly let go my ego as I realized there can never be enough of who's right or wrong.  Imagine...Never ending arguments.  I've tried accepting defeat and offering victory and I found that I feel great in the end.  I will try hard to be better at it!