dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: thaimonk on November 12, 2010, 07:15:59 AM
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The Dalai lama sure can command the crowd of audiences.
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Indeed, HHDL can command such crowds everywhere HH goes.
After all, HHDL has done a great deal for Buddhism and has devoted all his life in pursuit of spirituality. That's real time and effort spent on spiritual study, practice, learning and understanding. Not to mention, mastering.
We, on the other hand, have pursued all worldly pleasures and desires.
If we add all the past lifetimes of spirituality practice that HHDL has clocked in - that amounts to a tremendous feat!
How wonderful that so many people around the world can learn about the Dharma and receive the Dharma seeds that HHDL plants in them during this lifetime.
May all Dharma seeds sprout and grow in every individual.
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These are the very same enormous crowds that the Dalai Lama tells that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit.
It's sad that such a wrong view is spread to so many people. :(
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It is the same crowd that we will tell them that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit through this website.
Thank you Dalai Lama for leading them to this direction.
Whatever your intention is, you have made Dorje Shugden very well known.
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It is the same crowd that we will tell them that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit through this website.
Thaimonk, I absolutely love what you wrote here! It speaks from optimism, hope and an attitude of 'never giving up no matter what'.
I like that because I believe very strongly that Dharma is about looking at the cup being always half-full and not half-empty and within that same breath, we'd gladly give that very cup away if it saves another's life/spirituality.
Indeed, I echo what you wrote below a thousand times!
Thank you Dalai Lama for leading them to this direction.
AMEN!
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If not for the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden would not have been in Newsweek or Time Magazine! Do you know any other Dharma Protector who has been featured there?
The Dalai Lama has brought Dorje Shugden more publicity than anyone can imagine, so thank you Dalai Lama...
I'm sure many people have googled Dorje Shugden to find out more about this controversy and they would be directed right to this website!
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If not for the Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden would not have been in Newsweek or Time Magazine! Do you know any other Dharma Protector who has been featured there?
The Dalai Lama has brought Dorje Shugden more publicity than anyone can imagine, so thank you Dalai Lama...
I'm sure many people have googled Dorje Shugden to find out more about this controversy and they would be directed right to this website!
I agree with you. I am sure everyone can google to find out more the minute the hear what the Dalai Lama is saying against Dorje Shugden. And they will find loads of information for Dorje Shugden as well as against and let them come to their own conclusion.
Our 'enemies' always challenge us to be better and not sit around and be lazy. Well the Dalai Lama is keeping us on our toes.
Because of him, we are talking about Dorje Shugden on this site with so much information provided, it's wonderfully enlightening.
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There are always two sides of a coin. Whichever sides you choose reflects your state of mind.
A cup filled halfway can be seen as half empty or half full. How would you want to describe this cup?
Choose something POSITIVE. The world needs that!!!
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These are the very same enormous crowds that the Dalai Lama tells that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit.
It's sad that such a wrong view is spread to so many people. :(
Come to think of it, perhaps because it was spoken by the Dalai Lama, the name Dorje Shugden will be planted in their mindstream and it will one day ripen when the time is right, may be during Maitreya's time?
Perhaps 80% of the people couldn't even remember what Dalai Lama said or talked about, but the fact that they were in His Holiness' presence, it has blessed their mindstream to be able to accept and study the Dharma in future lives?
I dunno, just thinking out of the box ;D
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It is so refreshing to think positive and look at the whole Dalai Lama vs Dorje Shugden issue in a different perspective! And for all we know, we're all being taken for a premeditated ride in to a chaos that makes us talk more about Dorje Shugden, love Dorje Shugden more, and or who the heck is this Dorje Shugden (to those newbies)?
I remember when I met a friend from Australia, and we was like asking "What's up with this Dorje Shugden and why is Dalai Lama so against it?"... He was working for their local radio and they wanted to try to get an interview with Dalai Lama during his tour there to talk about Dorje Shugden!!!
I agree with wise WB... really which protector in the history of Tibetan Buddhism has ever made in to Times and Newsweek?! I guess we can proudly say DORJE SHUGDEN! And all Thanks to the Dalai Lama for stirring up such a storm and like he doesn't know it's going to attract so much media attention, like duh surely any Tom can figure that one out.
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Wish Dalai Lama had gone for the interview.
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It is so refreshing to think positive and look at the whole Dalai Lama vs Dorje Shugden issue in a different perspective! And for all we know, we're all being taken for a premeditated ride in to a chaos that makes us talk more about Dorje Shugden, love Dorje Shugden more, and or who the heck is this Dorje Shugden (to those newbies)?
I remember when I met a friend from Australia, and we was like asking "What's up with this Dorje Shugden and why is Dalai Lama so against it?"... He was working for their local radio and they wanted to try to get an interview with Dalai Lama during his tour there to talk about Dorje Shugden!!!
I agree with wise WB... really which protector in the history of Tibetan Buddhism has ever made in to Times and Newsweek?! I guess we can proudly say DORJE SHUGDEN! And all Thanks to the Dalai Lama for stirring up such a storm and like he doesn't know it's going to attract so much media attention, like duh surely any Tom can figure that one out.
Someone asked me on facebook (I don't know her personally - she just added me) why is the Dalai Lama against Shugden. So i explained to her and referred her to this site which has more information. If not for the controversy, i don't think she would've known about Dorje Shugden.
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HH Dalai Lama has done so much in spreading Buddhism. Wherever he goes, there will always be a large crowd. In this way, HHDalai Lama uses this ban to spread Dorje Shugden. We are so fortunate that HHDalai Lama is planting dharma seeds into our minds and when the time is right, these dharma seeds will fruition and we will be able to realize the truth. Through HHDalai Lama compassion and wise method, he has made Dorje Shugden so well known!
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A neighbour did the same - planting dharma seeds in our mind -
He is rich, powerful and much admired by the community.
He chased away his old mother.
She had nurtured him, but now she disagreed with his Buddhist beliefs.
So, he asked her to leave immediately his house and was deaf to her supplications.
Now, she is without shelter, destitute.
The members of the community are so delighted. Through compassion and wisdom,
he has made his faith so well known. And his mother will be so happy when
her karmic obscurations will no longer hinder her from understanding his wise
and compassionate gesture.
Of course, as we wish her well, and in order to help our compassionate and
wise neighbour, we help her by denying her any form of aid.
We had better be very very careful, it's so easy to ruin the whole endeavor...
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What a fool I am. It's so shameful.
Sorry, but it appears I got the facts wrong: a neighbour told me the true story.
In fact, he is such an incredible practitioner that he really saw how wrong she was
with her practice. So he banished her from the house.
You see, it's called wrathful practice, very very advanced level. It sets a wonderful
example for the other practitioners and of course, there is no better way to help her.
But, wait a minute, I told him: wouldn't it better to speak with her and to explain
what is wrong with her practice. Certainly such a clever neighbour can do it without any
kind of difficulty.
His furious glance quickly showed me how wrong I was to ask such a stupid question and
his answer let me know without any doubt how foolish I was: he told me that the neighbour
was such an incredible enlightened being, no one could possibly speak with him about such
a topic. He alone was able to think and act correctly. Asking questions would be like doubting,
very bad you know, very very bad. he would be furious and rightly so...
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Damned, wrong again ... Will I ever get it right...
No, you see one of my brightest neighbours explained it to me.
Nothing is wrong with his mother's practice. Everything is fine.
It's just that recognition of the practice is a bit slow.
But nothing to worry about, this powerful, wise and compassionate
neighbour is so resourceful. He had this wonderful idea to simply
bad mouth his mother, banish her, deprive her of any resources,
leave her destitute in fact.
This way, you see, setting such an admirable example of behaviour would
inevitably attract a lot of publicity and everyone would so quickly hear of
this wonderful practice.
And the powerful, wise and compassionate neighbour will inspire so many
other wise and compassionate beings to practice in this way with this clever idea.
I know, it seems so strange at first sight, but once your karmic obscurations
are dealt with, how wonderful a sight ...
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Last visit - The politician
Today, I had the incredible luck to meet with him. I mean I met with the politician we nickname "Kissinger".
He alone has got it all right he told me. It has everything to do with the "realpolitik", you know...
The Chinese market is big, so big... Nowhere will you find so many beings. And our neighbour is so wise,
rich and powerful... He can only dream of doing business with them.
But wait a minute, I told him: how could you ever think they will do business together, our neighbour is so
"Tibetan" in his ways...
He answered: don't worry, you will understand at the end of this "illusory play" of "realpolitik".
The Chinese will help the enemies of their perceived enemy...
So, our wise neighbour plays a clever gambit: it's like in chess, you know, if you sacrifice only one of your pawns to gain one queen, you have such an incredible deal. And if the sacrifice is only "illusory" you see what I mean.
Of course, one had better to avoid mate in the meantime, we can't afford to lose the King in this game.
So please, don't tell anyone. You know, they are so suspicious those Chinese. We have to be very very careful not to spoil everything...
Poor mother, I thought
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It is the same crowd that we will tell them that Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit through this website.
Thank you Dalai Lama for leading them to this direction.
Whatever your intention is, you have made Dorje Shugden very well known.
ahh...couldn't have said it better! I find so much hope and spaciousness with this view.
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Today, I met the outspoken beggar
Spoken frankly, I could barely sleep last night: this story of the neighbour chasing away his old mother kept me awake.
I was in great need of some fresh air, so I went for a little walk in the woods.
And I met a "legend": the outspoken beggar. I heard countless tales about his unbelievable sagacity.
When he asked me what made me look so worried, I told him everything:
- how the rich, powerful, much admired neighbour chased away his mother;
- what a fool I was to think it was because she disagreed with his Buddhist beliefs;
- how wrong again I was when I thought that the neighbour saw how her practice was wrong;
- how the clever man told me that it was all about recognition of the practice;
- and finally the "realpolitik" lesson of the politician we nickname "Kissinger.
The outspoken beggar laughed out loud: so many years of learning Buddhism and so ignorant...
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The oustpoken beggar speaks his mind
Your rich, powerful and much admired neighbour is an enlightened being.
His life is like that: 21'000 breathings in the day, Guru, Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
He helps countless beings in innumerable ways. I have not much time today, so I will
just give you a very succinct explanation:
Most Westerners, they are more Buddhists than disciples
Most Tibetans, they are more disciples than Buddhists
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Let's see what "outside" people are saying about the Dalai Lama recently.
Please click the link to read the whole article as I've only included some excerpts below: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/faith/the-dalai-lama-a-very-earthly-representative-2134033.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/faith/the-dalai-lama-a-very-earthly-representative-2134033.html)
The Independent UK
Monday, 15 November 2010
The Dalai Lama: A very earthly representative
For 60 years, the Dalai Lama has been a spiritual leader and an emblem of dispossession. He's also appeared in adverts, charmed celebrities and gained a million followers on Twitter. John Walsh charts the virtues and vices of a thoroughly modern monk
He is, without any doubt, the only incarnation of the Buddha who has ever guest-edited Vogue Paris.
He's the only spiritual leader of millions who has ever flogged a 1966 Land Rover on eBay and appeared in an advertisement for Apple. He is probably the only Nobel Prize winner on the planet who has Sharon Stone and Richard Gere on speed-dial. He must be the only "simple Buddhist monk" (his description) who sends daily bromides to a million followers on Twitter. Nobody in the world so bizarrely conjoins the spiritual and the material, the sublime and the ridiculous, dangerous politics and trivial celebrity, as the 14th Dalai Lama.
Wednesday is the 60th anniversary of his accession to the title, which means "Ocean of Wisdom" (the full version is Jetsun Jamphel Ngawang Lobsang Yeshe Tenzin Gyatso, which translates as "Holy Lord, Gentle Glory, Compassionate, Defender of the Faith, Ocean of Wisdom"). To almost all Tibetans, even those who criticise his stance over China, he is an object of reverence. But to many in the West he is a sneaky diplomatic strategist, a star-struck terrestrial and a turncoat Buddhist. To Rupert Murdoch, he could be "a very political old monk, shuffling about in Gucci shoes". As we shall see, there's a considerable list of complaints levelled against him. But after 60 years as a human bridge between East and West, do his virtues outweigh his shortcomings?
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All of which must make us ask: is the Dalai Lama a bad guy? Or is he merely a disappointment to many people who wish he were something he isn't?
Pico Iyer, in his 2008 biography, The Open Road: The Global Journey of the Fourteenth Dalai Lama, writes that his subject is the victim of Western preconceptions about Tibet as the heavenly Shangri-La depicted in James Hilton's 1930s novel Lost Horizon.
The West would like Tibet to remain a prelapsarian, pre-modern place of innocent happiness, and the Dalai Lama to be the kind of divine princeling depicted in the films Kundun and Seven Years in Tibet. They would rather not hear the princeling criticise the barbaric feudal system in which he grew up, or listen to his conviction that a modern Tibet needs to be grafted to a modern China to become a strong economic unit, rather than a Black Narcissus fantasy.
To the Chinese he is a "separatist", a "splitter", a troublesome demagogue to whom Mao Tse-tung once bluntly said: "Religion is a poison".
To Tibetans he is a beloved leader, but one who sucks up to the West and is seen as weak by the Chinese.
To Buddhists, he is a bringer of confusion rather than enlightenment, and an intimate of Hollywood nincompoops such as Steven Seagal.
To conspiracy theorists, he is a shady customer, a Marxist sympathiser, a recipient of CIA dollars.
But there is something entirely heartening about the way he moves through this cacophony of disapproval with Zen-like calm, recommending mutual understanding, global unity, decent compromise. He's the boy from the Tibetan backwoods who found himself sitting on a golden throne, only to lose it for exile in the mountains and a life of fame and celebrity in the West – a man from an elderly fairy tale, losing his home, finding a new one on the other side of the world, and refusing to wallow in the past.
"In Tibet," writes Pico Iyer, "the Dalai Lama was an embodiment of an old culture that, cut off from the world, spoke for an ancient, even lost, traditionalism. Now, in exile, he is an avatar of the new, as if, having travelled eight centuries in five decades, he is increasingly, with characteristic directness, leaning in, toward tomorrow."
My opinion is, it's very difficult being in His Holiness' position. He has many roles to play and it's difficult to please all the parties, but I personally respect His Holiness for what he has contributed and I choose to see him for the positive influence and changes he has brought to the world. What about you?
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Shamkarapati's "Praise of the Supra-Divine (Devatishayastotra) says:
I am not a partisan of Buddha,
I do not hate Kapila and the others,
I hold as a teacher only
Him whose word possesses reason.
"You should forsake partisanship and hatred for the systems of your own and others' teachers and analyse
which of them provide good and bad explanations. Then, you should adopt only that which shows the means
of attaining the two aims of trainees (high status within cyclic existence and the definite goodness of liberation
and omniscience) and provides correct proofs. The scriptures of the two systems are what are to be analysed
to find which does or does not bear the truth; thus it would not be suitable to cite them as a proof (of their
own truth). Only reasoning distinguishes what is or is not true."
Je Tsongkhapa
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My opinion is, it's very difficult being in His Holiness' position. He has many roles to play and it's difficult to please all the parties, but I personally respect His Holiness for what he has contributed and I choose to see him for the positive influence and changes he has brought to the world. What about you?
I ABSOLUTELY agree with Vajraprotector.
Look at all the figure heads in the world, be they celebrities, head of the states, presidents of the countries, and not to mention, spiritual heads, whatever they say or do, will surely please certain people and upset the others. Such is the facts of life, and such is our different depositions of mind sets.
You can never please everyone. And it is always so easy just to open our big mouth and start criticising and adopt a fault finding attitude.
It is time for us to cultivate a mind of gratefulness, to appreciate what HHDL has done for the world. I always remind myself that when I do not agree or comprehand certain acts of an enligtened being or a high lama, I would tell myself to look at all the good deeds that this high lama has accomplished and brought to the commuinity, and more often than ever, that would keep my mouth shut ;)
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Some years ago, a younger Rinpoche invited Lati Rinpoche (from memory, I think it was Him) in London
to give teachings.
The first day he spoke a long time about hells and forms of suffering. At the end of the day, the younger
Rinpoche, seeing how the hundreds of persons present reacted, went to speak with Lati Rinpoche.
He asked Lati Rinpoche if it would not be possible to change topics the next day, explaining that it was
unpleasant for Westerners to hear teachings about hells and forms of sufferings and maybe they would
stop coming to the teachings.
The next day, out of loving kindness, compassion and skillful means, uttering useful even if unpleasant
words to hear, Lati Rinpoche spoke almost all the time about the same topics, hells and forms of sufferings.
He explained that he was not there to say what they wished to hear, but to expound Dharma.
And he also said that if they wished they could leave the teachings, but that he would not stop speaking about this topic, Dharma being Dharma he had no means to change it...
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My opinion is, it's very difficult being in His Holiness' position. He has many roles to play and it's difficult to please all the parties, but I personally respect His Holiness for what he has contributed and I choose to see him for the positive influence and changes he has brought to the world. What about you?
I ABSOLUTELY agree with Vajraprotector.
Look at all the figure heads in the world, be they celebrities, head of the states, presidents of the countries, and not to mention, spiritual heads, whatever they say or do, will surely please certain people and upset the others. Such is the facts of life, and such is our different depositions of mind sets.
You can never please everyone. And it is always so easy just to open our big mouth and start criticising and adopt a fault finding attitude.
It is time for us to cultivate a mind of gratefulness, to appreciate what HHDL has done for the world. I always remind myself that when I do not agree or comprehand certain acts of an enligtened being or a high lama, I would tell myself to look at all the good deeds that this high lama has accomplished and brought to the commuinity, and more often than ever, that would keep my mouth shut ;)
Hi Triesa and Vajraprotector
Yes, that is so true - whatever we do, we can never please everyone. Even Jesus Christ was crucified and Lord Buddha had people who hated him and did not believe in his philosophy, so it is not surprising that no matter what good people do, they will not be universally applauded. i guess that is the symptom of samsara.
I like what Vajraprotector said - to choose to see the positive. If only more people would choose to see the positive in others rather than the negative, the world would be a better place.
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Bad speech, calumnies directed towards someone are like blessings, long life ceremonies for this person.
Being subjected to them clears obstacles, eliminates bad karma. If one keeps patience while being subjected
to those forms of abuse, it greatly increases the merits and thus contributes to increase one's life span.
Very simple: one doesn't need to ask for them, one doesn't need to pay for them, one doesn't even need
to know that it is happening. In any case he will benefit from it.
So one should really rejoice if he has to exert patience when subjected to harm.
Of course, the poor being who is doing such deeds is putting himself in exactly the reverse position. Frightening!
Source: the blogspot "anecdotes bouddhistes"
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My opinion is, it's very difficult being in His Holiness' position. He has many roles to play and it's difficult to please all the parties, but I personally respect His Holiness for what he has contributed and I choose to see him for the positive influence and changes he has brought to the world. What about you?
I have struggled and struggled with this and have decided that I can neither condemn nor praise the Dalai Lama. I do cndemn his actions though.
With the ban still in effect and people still getting hurt, I can not offer my praise to the only person capable of stopping this.
I do respect much of what he has done, but that does not give him a free pass on this issue in my opinion.
My promise is to never speak harsh words toward the Dalai Lama, but I will continue to speak out against his oppressive policies.
I believe it is necessary to speak out and I also believe that if no one were to condemn his actions, things would be a lot worse than what they are right now.
While I may not join in the chorus of praise for the Dalai Lama, I appreciate this website and am very grateful for having this resourse.
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It pleases me to no end to hear from a fellow dharma practitioner who can stand on his own two feet.
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My promise is to never speak harsh words toward the Dalai Lama, but I will continue to speak out against his oppressive policies.
Tenzin Sungrab - thank you for seeing the clear distinction and expressing it so eloquently. I believe the lines have become blurred of late and sometimes, speaking out against the policies becomes a tirade against the DL himself.
For example, I refer to books like The Great Deception which is very heavy in its rhetoric and launches almost insulting comments directly at the dalai lama. (it would be easy for a new person reading that book to think it is only about how hateful the DL is, rather than about his policies).
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there's a huge difference between speaking out against the dalai lama vs the policies. What we tend to get caught up with is speaking against the dalai lama which brings no good to ourselves nor anyone else. Also, i wish to point out that this website do have articles and videos educating ppl about the ban, policies etc.... However, the focus shouldn't only be towards speaking against the ban ... it's about identifying and recognizing the opportunities to bring about good in the midst of the ban. I am not condoning the ban...but i cannot deny the many opportunities arisen out of the ban for the protector to be made known throughout the world.
peace
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The ban is hurting people...still. I ache from worrying about me Tibetan friends who live this day to day. This is NOT the actions of compassion. PLEASE find another way to spread the dharma.
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there's a huge difference between speaking out against the dalai lama vs the policies. What we tend to get caught up with is speaking against the dalai lama which brings no good to ourselves nor anyone else. peace
I think what DSFriend said is something for us to reflect on. I think there is no Shugden practitioner who is happy with the Dalai Lama for the ban, it is heartbreaking to know how practitioners suffer discrimination, being ostracised and opressed due to the policy imposed. Yet, what's the use of condeming His Holiness? I don't think protests and complaining or incriminating His Holiness will work, It hasn't worked so far although the world's media has publicised re this ban for a long time now.
If we hate the policy and ban, why not complain and protest against the TGIE instead instead of "barking" at the Dalai Lama? I don't think His Holiness will listen to any appeal since His Holiness doesn't want to grant audiences with Shugden practitioners to discuss about it.
Personally, it is quite impossible to shake people's faith from His Holiness - hence we have seen the videos of many people in 'dilemma', including those who escaped Tibet to Dharmsala, just to be ostracised again, this time by their own commnunity. These are the people who are suffering, yet they do not give up their faith on His Holiness. So why should we?
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there's a huge difference between speaking out against the dalai lama vs the policies. What we tend to get caught up with is speaking against the dalai lama which brings no good to ourselves nor anyone else. Also, i wish to point out that this website do have articles and videos educating ppl about the ban, policies etc.... However, the focus shouldn't only be towards speaking against the ban ... it's about identifying and recognizing the opportunities to bring about good in the midst of the ban. I am not condoning the ban...but i cannot deny the many opportunities arisen out of the ban for the protector to be made known throughout the world.
peace
I couldn't have said it any better myself, DS Friend.
Right now, for us, the un-enlightened ones - it is impossible to see things as they really are. Because everything that we see is stained with emotions, and our dualistic mind.
We are not able to practise the essence of the "middle way" when our emotions are so charged up.
Things happen. Time Passes by. Attaching to an idea or concept, we trap ourselves. Mind is it’s own trap when fed. Especially so, when our emotions are involved.
Of course, it is not easy to just sit by and watch. Of course, we feel for the sadness of the situation and how unfortunate it has to be this way - but then we begin to add out own thoughts into - what we think should and should not be. This leads us to further to compound our "suffering" of the situation.
I have been trying to read and understand Nagarjuna's Middle Way of late. One thing that does strike me - is that we are all very attached to our emotions and to the things we would like to see happen - even in the spiritual context.
Our inability to let go of those strong emotions might also become an attachment because we cannot accept impermanence.
I prefer to remain optimistic and not just drown myself in despair because misery leds to damnation and it does love company.
Hence, I especially liked what DS Friend wrote about seeing the various opportunities in times like these.
As everything is impermanent, this too shall pass.
In the meantime, we can do more to create the causes for better things to come and continue to practise well. Even something as "small" as distributiing brochures about Dorje Shugden or just promoting the illustrated story of Dorje Shugden to sponsoring monks in Shar Gaden and Serpom - all these are real beneficial actions that will lead to a positive future result.
What will being sad and complaining or negative actions ever bring but further bad karma?
If we really learn and understand the Middle View by Nagarjuna - we can start to practise. It is times like these that we can and should practise even more. If it were all peaceful and rosy, how do we ever get to practise?
Dorje Shugden wears the round domed hat for a reason. It is not just a fashion statement.
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Everyday we are reminded of how great His Holiness is - despite the controversy. Two news to share with everyone:
1. Sikkim govt bans killing of animals during Dalai Lama's visit
Published: Saturday, Dec 11, 2010, 13:40 IST
Place: Gangtok | Agency: PTI
The Sikkim government has banned the killing of animals, fowl and fish during the visit of Tibetan spiritual leader, the Dalai Lama, between December 15 to 17.
Special permits will be issued to individuals or government organisations intending to import meat, except poultry from outside the state for marriage and social ceremonies, according to a circular issued by the animal husbandry, livestock fisheries, veterinary services department.
Special permits will also be issued for feeding carnivores at the Himalayan Zoological Park at Bulbulay.
From:http://www.in.com/news/current-affairs/fullstory-sikkim-govt-bans-killing-of-animals-during-dalai-lamas-visit-16613493-b038392545e658c3a9a96c8a50bb9c70c520cb50-rhp.html
2. Dalai Lama is Buddha of this Era: Himachal Pradesh Chief Minister
December 10th 2010
McLeod Ganj, HP, India, 9 December 2010 (Press Trust of India) - Hailing Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama as "Buddha of this era" Himachal Pradesh chief minister Prem Kumar Dhumal today said that the Buddhist monk was an apostle of Mahatma Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence.
"The Dalai Lama is the greatest living Buddhist monk, the Buddha of this era, and an apostle of Mahatma Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence," Dhumal said during a breakfast reception organised by Tibetan Parliament in Exile for members of the state Legislative Assembly, who are here to attend the winter session.
The chief minister said India and Tibet cherish long historical and religious ties.
"I pray for long and healthy life of the Dalai Lama. May the Tibet issue be resolved soon and the relationship between Indians and Tibetan people continue to flourish," he said.
From: http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_dalai-lama-is-buddha-of-this-era-himachal-pradesh-chief-minister_1479164
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McLeod Ganj, HP, India, 9 December 2010 (Press Trust of India) - Hailing Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama as "Buddha of this era" Himachal Pradesh chief minister Prem Kumar Dhumal today said that the Buddhist monk was an apostle of Mahatma Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence.
"The Dalai Lama is the greatest living Buddhist monk, the Buddha of this era, and an apostle of Mahatma Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence," Dhumal said during a breakfast reception organised by Tibetan Parliament in Exile for members of the state Legislative Assembly, who are here to attend the winter session.
The chief minister said India and Tibet cherish long historical and religious ties.
I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. The Dalai Lama is causing a schism in the international Sangha, which is not peace, and he's also never spoken out against violence towards Shugden practitioners. There is physical and mental violence towards them (for example, the 'wanted' style posters in Dharmasala which the Dalai Lama flatly denied in the Swiss documentary, even though the reporter had seen them for himself) as well as denial of basic human rights and freedoms such as being able to enter shops, receive medical treatment and travel freely. How is this 'peace and non-violence'? The evidence speaks for itself. he Dalai Lama himself claims to be an apostle of Gandhi but his actions are quite different.
The view that the Minister is expressing is very much a 'hollywood' view of the Dalai Lama. Sadly, it bears no resemblance to reality.
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McLeod Ganj, HP, India, 9 December 2010 (Press Trust of India) - Hailing Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama as "Buddha of this era" Himachal Pradesh chief minister Prem Kumar Dhumal today said that the Buddhist monk was an apostle of Mahatma Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence.
"The Dalai Lama is the greatest living Buddhist monk, the Buddha of this era, and an apostle of Mahatma Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence," Dhumal said during a breakfast reception organised by Tibetan Parliament in Exile for members of the state Legislative Assembly, who are here to attend the winter session.
The chief minister said India and Tibet cherish long historical and religious ties.
I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true. The Dalai Lama is causing a schism in the international Sangha, which is not peace, and he's also never spoken out against violence towards Shugden practitioners. There is physical and mental violence towards them (for example, the 'wanted' style posters in Dharmasala which the Dalai Lama flatly denied in the Swiss documentary, even though the reporter had seen them for himself) as well as denial of basic human rights and freedoms such as being able to enter shops, receive medical treatment and travel freely. How is this 'peace and non-violence'? The evidence speaks for itself. he Dalai Lama himself claims to be an apostle of Gandhi but his actions are quite different.
The view that the Minister is expressing is very much a 'hollywood' view of the Dalai Lama. Sadly, it bears no resemblance to reality.
We cannot simply erased all the good deeds that H.H. the Dalai Lama has accomplished all these years in his entire life in spreading buddhism through out the world, the Dorje Shugden ban imposed by the Dalai Lama, did bring much more awareness of Dorje Shugden to many.
Dalai Lama, in my opinion, dare to risk his reputation of being seen as a hyprocrite monk, or a lier, so as to prepare Dorje Shugden to be the next king of Dharma Protector, is totally acting out of compassion. Who would be willing to ruin one's great achievements in his whole life, if he is not an enlightenened being, an emanation of Chenrizig??
We must not forget that the actions of enlightened beings are sometimes beyond our limited wordly visions and perceptions and their results are sometimes to be seen and felt much later.
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We cannot simply erased all the good deeds that H.H. the Dalai Lama has accomplished all these years in his entire life in spreading buddhism through out the world, the Dorje Shugden ban imposed by the Dalai Lama, did bring much more awareness of Dorje Shugden to many.
Dalai Lama, in my opinion, dare to risk his reputation of being seen as a hyprocrite monk, or a lier, so as to prepare Dorje Shugden to be the next king of Dharma Protector, is totally acting out of compassion. Who would be willing to ruin one's great achievements in his whole life, if he is not an enlightenened being, an emanation of Chenrizig??
We must not forget that the actions of enlightened beings are sometimes beyond our limited wordly visions and perceptions and their results are sometimes to be seen and felt much later.
Hi triesa,
You're entitled to your view, but then surely we can embrace any negative actions and call it enlightened by this reasoning? The reasoning 'the Dalai Lama is a Buddha so everything he does is an enlightened action' is not a valid reason because enlightened actions don't cause suffering and the Dalai Lama most certainly is causing suffering.
I agree that the Dalai Lama has made Buddhism more well known, but then he tells Westerners not to become Buddhist. Many people throughout the world now believe that Dorje Shugden is a spirit thanks to the Dalai Lama's actions, so how has spreading this wrong view, contrary to the lineage Gurus of his own tradition, helped anyone? The only benefit is the fact that Dorje Shugden is a Buddha so the benefit of hearing his name is due to Dorje Shugden's power, not the Dalai Lama.
This article explains the problems with 'the bigger picture':
http://theshugdengroup.wordpress.com/2010/11/29/the-bigger-picture-versus-a-great-deception/
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You're entitled to your view, but then surely we can embrace any negative actions and call it enlightened by this reasoning? The reasoning 'the Dalai Lama is a Buddha so everything he does is an enlightened action' is not a valid reason because enlightened actions don't cause suffering and the Dalai Lama most certainly is causing suffering.
I thought that only we cause our own suffering. Whatever suffering we experience is because we have created the causes for it and hence we should not blame others for it?
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You're entitled to your view, but then surely we can embrace any negative actions and call it enlightened by this reasoning? The reasoning 'the Dalai Lama is a Buddha so everything he does is an enlightened action' is not a valid reason because enlightened actions don't cause suffering and the Dalai Lama most certainly is causing suffering.
I thought that only we cause our own suffering. Whatever suffering we experience is because we have created the causes for it and hence we should not blame others for it?
Of course :)
Get some Vajrasattva down you ;D
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You're entitled to your view, but then surely we can embrace any negative actions and call it enlightened by this reasoning? The reasoning 'the Dalai Lama is a Buddha so everything he does is an enlightened action' is not a valid reason because enlightened actions don't cause suffering and the Dalai Lama most certainly is causing suffering.
I thought that only we cause our own suffering. Whatever suffering we experience is because we have created the causes for it and hence we should not blame others for it?
I know it is very hard and tough to understand this. Sufferings is just not nice for anyone, no matter what.
Wisdom being is right, whatever suffering we experience is becasue we have created the casues for it and hence forth we will need to experience it at some point in time, whether now, this life or future lives.
Some high lamas do perform actions that seem unlightened in our perception and views, and in some extreme cases, the actions may be completely insane, and casues either mental or physical sufferings to their disciples, once experienced, the negative karma is purified. The faster these karma are purified, the better we are in future.
In fact, the reason why we are reborn in this human realm , a desire realm, is also due to our own negative karma.
I was told a true story that a very high Rinpoche(sorry, forgot his name) was put in jail by the Chinese Army and he was made to clean toilets and all other dirty works. He would be beaten up if found doing his prayers or chanting while in jail. He was in prison for more than 20 plus years and when he was finally released, he looked so peaceful, graceful and calm, not a trace of complaints from him. He said while he was in jail all these years, he dedicated the merits from his sufferings to H.H. the Dalai Lama, for his works to flourish and for his long life.
I am not saying we have to be like this, but whatever sufferings we are experiencing, whether it be mental or physical, lets not complain and take this as a practice, a real practice to true spirituality. And we can do this one step at a time..........
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You're entitled to your view, but then surely we can embrace any negative actions and call it enlightened by this reasoning? The reasoning 'the Dalai Lama is a Buddha so everything he does is an enlightened action' is not a valid reason because enlightened actions don't cause suffering and the Dalai Lama most certainly is causing suffering.
I thought that only we cause our own suffering. Whatever suffering we experience is because we have created the causes for it and hence we should not blame others for it?
I know it is very hard and tough to understand this. Sufferings is just not nice for anyone, no matter what.
Wisdom being is right, whatever suffering we experience is becasue we have created the casues for it and hence forth we will need to experience it at some point in time, whether now, this life or future lives.
Some high lamas do perform actions that seem unlightened in our perception and views, and in some extreme cases, the actions may be completely insane, and casues either mental or physical sufferings to their disciples, once experienced, the negative karma is purified. The faster these karma are purified, the better we are in future.
In fact, the reason why we are reborn in this human realm , a desire realm, is also due to our own negative karma.
I was told a true story that a very high Rinpoche(sorry, forgot his name) was put in jail by the Chinese Army and he was made to clean toilets and all other dirty works. He would be beaten up if found doing his prayers or chanting while in jail. He was in prison for more than 20 plus years and when he was finally released, he looked so peaceful, graceful and calm, not a trace of complaints from him. He said while he was in jail all these years, he dedicated the merits from his sufferings to H.H. the Dalai Lama, for his works to flourish and for his long life.
I am not saying we have to be like this, but whatever sufferings we are experiencing, whether it be mental or physical, lets not complain and take this as a practice, a real practice to true spirituality. And we can do this one step at a time..........
This high lama who was imprisoned was His Eminence Tsawa Pulthok Rinpoche of Drepung Loseling. He was a direct disciple of Kyabje Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo. Pulthok Rinpoche was a fervernt practitioner of Vajra Yogini and Dorje Shugden. He did serkym every single day until he passed away peacefully in Nepal a few years back. He also prayed the hardships, beatings, starvation and accusations he recieved in prison may serve as a method to clear the obstacles for Sera, Drepung and Gaden's growth daily.Thinking like this, his imprisonment had a purpose he mentioned. He did his practices and meditations in secret and laying down for 20 years. He was caught several times and severely beaten for praying.
tk
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Pulthok Rinpoche mentioned, when he was younger he had another monk friend and they were playing back in Tibet. Pulthok Rinpoche put that monk on a seat and did the invocation of Dulzin just playfully. Shockingly Dulzin actually took full trance of that young monk for a short while. The monk that Dulzin took trance didn't know what was happening nor remembered after coming out of trance unharmed.
Pulthok Rinpoche has a very strong connection and karmic affinity with Dulzin Dorje Shugden for many lives. He said this in the humblest of ways.
May his incarnation return and continue.
TK
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oh, my brothers and sisters :'(
you are like abused wives, defending your husband, forgiving him his violence for the food he brings to your table and the clothes on your back. "do not criticise him! you don't know the REAL man - he is good and kind. even when he beats me and beats our children, in truth he knows best - it is for our own good."
you fear bringing shame on your family so you keep quiet. you lack confidence and feel sure that you must be in the wrong and that there must be a love, deeper than you can understand, behind his kicks and punches.
you are like prisoners with Stockholm syndrome.
you blame anyone who points out: "this isn't right - those bruises are NOT the result of kindness." you cover the bruises of your children and adopt a humble, serene attitude and accuse your friends of anger or jealousy towards your abuser whenever they speak against him.
my heart cries. it's unbearable to me to see this.
STAND UP! for the sake of our abused children. SPEAK OUT!
please, please STOP twisting holy Dharma to justify your acquiescence!
it is NOT the love of her husband that prevents an abused wife speaking out, nor is anger necessary to take action against that husband. those who criticise him are NOT necessarily angry with him, or lacking in virtue or understanding.
protesting may not be the best method, for sure - now it seems is the time for a more reasoned, factual stance. but a stance we must take! we MUST criticise the actions of the Dalai Lama while he still has the power to rescind the ban. there is no way - no way - the TGIE will rescind it after his retirement or death: it will become unassailably enshrined as holy doctrine. his power to harm will continue even after he dies.
we must break this power NOW.
breaking his power, through speaking out, through publicity, through criticism of the man and his actions - through all appropriate, skilful means - IS LOVING THE DALAI LAMA. it is Dharma. it is loving all living beings. it is protecting the doctrine for the benefit of all. it is what all the Buddhas of the three times and the ten directions want us to do.
allowing him to continue abusing his family, unopposed, is condemning him, his family, and countless, countless living beings, to untold suffering in the future
my heart cries, brothers and sisters, to hear such good and wise people defend such monstrous actions and their perpetrator simply because he has also done good. :'(
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i should add: still, i do not say that i can know for sure the nature of the Dalai Lama - i can only see his actions and respond to them in the most appropriate way.
to those who believe him to be a Buddha, i say: when Buddha manifests as a deluded being and performs deluded actions the correct response is to oppose those deluded actions in the conventional, appropriate way, whilst holding a mind of love and compassion and refraining from anger.
believing him enlightened and criticising his wrong actions are not at all contradictory - quite the reverse.
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i wished to modify the above post, but there is no Modify icon appearing... anyway - i wanted to add this to illustrate the point:
a Buddha may manifest as an abusive husband. perhaps, through his abuse, his family may seek refuge in Dharma. but the correct and proper response for his wife to take to his abuse is nonetheless, definitely and without any shadow of a doubt, to take the children and leave him, taking appropriate action against him by reporting him to the authorities.
to stay with him, reasoning "my husband is probably an enlightened being, purifying my and my children's karma" would be irresponsible, even insane.
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oh, my brothers and sisters :'(
you are like abused wives, defending your husband, forgiving him his violence for the food he brings to your table and the clothes on your back. "do not criticise him! you don't know the REAL man - he is good and kind. even when he beats me and beats our children, in truth he knows best - it is for our own good."
you fear bringing shame on your family so you keep quiet. you lack confidence and feel sure that you must be in the wrong and that there must be a love, deeper than you can understand, behind his kicks and punches.
you are like prisoners with Stockholm syndrome.
you blame anyone who points out: "this isn't right - those bruises are NOT the result of kindness." you cover the bruises of your children and adopt a humble, serene attitude and accuse your friends of anger or jealousy towards your abuser whenever they speak against him.
my heart cries. it's unbearable to me to see this.
STAND UP! for the sake of our abused children. SPEAK OUT!
please, please STOP twisting holy Dharma to justify your acquiescence!
it is NOT the love of her husband that prevents an abused wife speaking out, nor is anger necessary to take action against that husband. those who criticise him are NOT necessarily angry with him, or lacking in virtue or understanding.
protesting may not be the best method, for sure - now it seems is the time for a more reasoned, factual stance. but a stance we must take! we MUST criticise the actions of the Dalai Lama while he still has the power to rescind the ban. there is no way - no way - the TGIE will rescind it after his retirement or death: it will become unassailably enshrined as holy doctrine. his power to harm will continue even after he dies.
we must break this power NOW.
breaking his power, through speaking out, through publicity, through criticism of the man and his actions - through all appropriate, skilful means - IS LOVING THE DALAI LAMA. it is Dharma. it is loving all living beings. it is protecting the doctrine for the benefit of all. it is what all the Buddhas of the three times and the ten directions want us to do.
allowing him to continue abusing his family, unopposed, is condemning him, his family, and countless, countless living beings, to untold suffering in the future
my heart cries, brothers and sisters, to hear such good and wise people defend such monstrous actions and their perpetrator simply because he has also done good. :'(
Great analogy. ;)
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I so much love what you, the Cook of Atisha, just wrote here. So much wisdom. Thank you. I would like to add a little thought of my own here too:
Now, imagine a man called, say, Asanga, walking down the street, and meeting a dying dog ridden with maggots. If this Asanga is a Mahayana Buddhist, what would you imagine him to do about the situation he encountered? Would he, Asanga that is, think that this maggot ridden dog is a Buddha, and therefore start to do prostrations, praising the maggots, praising the almost dead dog? Or would he try to do something positive or healing, concerning the appalling condition that he has met? In other words, would Asanga react to his imaginative thinking, or to the apparent reality? Would he rely on his ideations or his senses, as to the world-at-hand?
The story is well known, I'll guess. And we all can learn from it. Now of course, the dog and the maggots were in fact a Buddha, Maitreya. But there is a catch, you see. If Asanga would have considered the maggotriddendog as a Buddha, nothing would have happened. Or rather, the maggots would have continued to eat the dog, and Asanga's knees would have bleeded from all the prostrations. But if Asanga would, as he did, consider the dog as a suffering being, and the maggots too, he was in fact capable of making a great discovery: He saw the Buddha Himself.
In other words, Asanga took the conventional reality as the reality to act upon, and thereby surpassed the conventionalities. He saw the ultimate reality precisely by acting appropriately upon the conventional reality. Had he taken the view that the apparent dog is a Buddha, he would have merely acted on his own ideations, but he did not. He did not think that a dog is Maitreya, but he took the dog as a dog, and thereby the dog became Maitreya.
The path to truth, true view, ultimate reality, is necessarily the very conventionalities, the apparent, the immediate. One cannot overstep the evident reality.
I shall therefore say, that those who wish to see the Dalai Lama as Avalokita Himself, having previously came to know the Ban et cetera, must first see him as a misrailed monk. Otherwise one might as well bow to a pile of maggots eating a canine corpse. So, let us all follow the footsteps of Arya Asanga, and courageously meet the apparent reality as it is. There is no Buddha or the Big Picture, in the Dalai Lama or his ban on Dorje Shugden, unless one sees and acts upon the dog and the maggots.
yours in the Yogacara,
Zhalmed Pawo
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The path to truth, true view, ultimate reality, is necessarily the very conventionalities, the apparent, the immediate. One cannot overstep the evident reality.
I shall therefore say, that those who wish to see the Dalai Lama as Avalokita Himself, having previously came to know the Ban et cetera, must first see him as a misrailed monk. Otherwise one might as well bow to a pile of maggots eating a canine corpse. So, let us all follow the footsteps of Arya Asanga, and courageously meet the apparent reality as it is. There is no Buddha or the Big Picture, in the Dalai Lama or his ban on Dorje Shugden, unless one sees and acts upon the dog and the maggots.
yours in the Yogacara,
Zhalmed Pawo
Thus, why focus only on how the dog came to have maggots. Do something about it. Instead of only focusing on the Dalai Lama's ban, why not focus on what can be done instead to promote the protector!
peace
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The path to truth, true view, ultimate reality, is necessarily the very conventionalities, the apparent, the immediate. One cannot overstep the evident reality.
I shall therefore say, that those who wish to see the Dalai Lama as Avalokita Himself, having previously came to know the Ban et cetera, must first see him as a misrailed monk. Otherwise one might as well bow to a pile of maggots eating a canine corpse. So, let us all follow the footsteps of Arya Asanga, and courageously meet the apparent reality as it is. There is no Buddha or the Big Picture, in the Dalai Lama or his ban on Dorje Shugden, unless one sees and acts upon the dog and the maggots.
Thus, why focus only on how the dog came to have maggots. Do something about it.
Instead of only focusing on the Dalai Lama's ban, why not focus on what can be done instead to promote the protector!
Well uh, maybe the story of Asanga was a story about perception before nothing else. Maybe I also used it as such.
Maybe the lesson I saw in the story was one of undiluted perception, untainted by any idealistic maneuverisms, but just the mere acceptance of the evident reality.
Is there in that a lesson for us all? Ha?
There is here no focus on the dog, or the comeuppance of maggots, nor specifically any afterthoughts about the status of the dog, or the maggots. Just an observation, a sensing. There is here merely the point that the situation should be taken as it appears, not as it is idealized, thought upon, pondered about, twisted around, pergamoniously pamphleted.
And why? Because if Asanga would not have seen the dog as a dog and acted upon that vision, he would not have met the Buddha. Perception comes before action. If one mis-percives, due to idealism or any other -ism, one cannot avoid mis-acting.
That is the point, perhaps. And therefore, one cannot focus on the action if one cannot perceive. Do you perceive, do you see what is happening? Not in your conceptual categorizing calculating discursive mind, but simply around, in your sense sphere? Do you see the ban? Do you see the ban as causing harm? Do you see who issued the ban? Do you see who continually maintains the ban?
If you do, why refuse to accept it as an inevitable fact? Most of us do accept it just as it is. As an non-dharmic activity made by someone very specific.
And as for the promoting of Somebody, I do not see any point in that. I do not promote myself or the Buddha, so why should I promote anyone else - as after all, the two beforementioned are the two most important persons in my life, and I see no point in promoting either one. Nevertheless, as I happen to be a follower of a certain Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, who taught this funny thing called Dharma, I do promote just that thing, the Dharma. Nothing else. And especially no-one else, as even the very expression does not make any sense from the dharmic pov.
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The path to truth, true view, ultimate reality, is necessarily the very conventionalities, the apparent, the immediate. One cannot overstep the evident reality.
I shall therefore say, that those who wish to see the Dalai Lama as Avalokita Himself, having previously came to know the Ban et cetera, must first see him as a misrailed monk. Otherwise one might as well bow to a pile of maggots eating a canine corpse. So, let us all follow the footsteps of Arya Asanga, and courageously meet the apparent reality as it is. There is no Buddha or the Big Picture, in the Dalai Lama or his ban on Dorje Shugden, unless one sees and acts upon the dog and the maggots.
yours in the Yogacara,
Zhalmed Pawo
Thus, why focus only on how the dog came to have maggots. Do something about it. Instead of only focusing on the Dalai Lama's ban, why not focus on what can be done instead to promote the protector!
peace
Ds friend, I like what you say, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT..WHY JUST ANALYZE THE DISEASE OVER AND OVER UNTIL YOUR ANALYSIS ITSELF becomes a disease..promote Shugden!
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And as for the promoting of Somebody, I do not see any point in that. I do not promote myself or the Buddha, so why should I promote anyone else - as after all, the two beforementioned are the two most important persons in my life, and I see no point in promoting either one. Nevertheless, as I happen to be a follower of a certain Siddhartha Gautama, the Buddha, who taught this funny thing called Dharma, I do promote just that thing, the Dharma. Nothing else. And especially no-one else, as even the very expression does not make any sense from the dharmic pov.
Frankly, the idea of promoting Dorje Shugden is just as bizarre as the idea of banning him. They are both extremes. If we make efforts to promote our Protector and not Dharma, we are playing into the Dalai Lama's hands - he already claims that we regard Dorje Shugden as more important than Buddha. If we don't promote Buddha Shakyamuni, why should be promote Dorje Shugden?
It's a bizarre extreme that's created by the opposite bizarre extreme of the ban. It's simply an equal and opposite reaction...
Promote your centres, promote the Dharma, promote love, compassion and wisdom.
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Frankly, the idea of promoting Dorje Shugden is just as bizarre as the idea of banning him. They are both extremes. If we make efforts to promote our Protector and not Dharma, we are playing into the Dalai Lama's hands - he already claims that we regard Dorje Shugden as more important than Buddha. If we don't promote Buddha Shakyamuni, why should be promote Dorje Shugden?
It's a bizarre extreme that's created by the opposite bizarre extreme of the ban. It's simply an equal and opposite reaction...
Promote your centres, promote the Dharma, promote love, compassion and wisdom.
Perhaps promoting the centre is not really a good idea- I have heard of many people who attended centres and got turned off by teachers who just preach but never practice what they preach. I think it's easier to promote deities and the benefits derived from their practice instead, because then they have many choices of centres they can go to, according to their affinity.
If you say promoting Shugden is extreme, then we shouldn't promote Tsongkhapa as well, hence promoting our own centre is even worse - because it is the a specific centre in the lineage of Tsongkhapa.
I personally think we should promote all - Buddhas, Yidams, Protectors, Gurus, Dharma. But in this case, as we're in the website of Dorje Shugden, of course we talk about promoting Shugden. We will not talk about promoting the Pratyutpanna Sam?dhi S?tra of the Pure Land sect nor Infinite Life Sutra by Master Chin Kung, won't we? The reason is simple - we don't know enough of that, not that we don't want to promote.
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by promoting reliance upon Dorje Shugden you are implicitly stating that the Dalai Lama is wrong to ban this practice, that the ban itself is wrong and so anyone implementing and upholding it is engaging in a wrong action and is therefore at fault.
if the ban is wrong then the Dalai Lama is at fault and the correct action is to oppose this ban, which necessarily involves discrediting its instigator - how can it not?
there is no promoting Dorje Shugden without discrediting the Dalai Lama. you can't have your cake and eat it.
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by promoting reliance upon Dorje Shugden you are implicitly stating that the Dalai Lama is wrong to ban this practice, that the ban itself is wrong and so anyone implementing and upholding it is engaging in a wrong action and is therefore at fault.
if the ban is wrong then the Dalai Lama is at fault and the correct action is to oppose this ban, which necessarily involves discrediting its instigator - how can it not?
there is no promoting Dorje Shugden without discrediting the Dalai Lama. you can't have your cake and eat it.
Well, you are right. The existence of this whole site is obvious we do not agree with the Dalai Lama. How more obvious do you want?
But what is the point of attacking the Dalai Lama? It is like throwing eggs at a huge mountain. Just keep promoting Dorje Shugden, promoting everything about it and indirectly ppl can see the ban is wrong. Why be obsessed with Dalai Lama and give him more power? If you can't get in through the back door, get in through the window. Why stand outside and complain about not getting into the door? Just get in already. Promote Dorje Shugden and forget about Dalai Lama for now.
Nobody here agrees with the Dalai Lama's actions re this ban. Nobody. Educate the ban being wrong in every other way for now and leave the Dalai Lama out. When ppl see the ban is wrong, then automatically, the Dalai Lama will be asked why and questioned or look strange for having this ban. Pressure by logic, information and showing how ridiculous the ban is will appeal to alot more individuals especially those who know nothing or very little of Buddhism and the issue.
Also since Dalai Lama is flying high everywhere, it makes very bad publicity to put him down. It turns ppl away. So without being obvious about the Dalai Lama, just focus on the ban. Easier for ppl to digest FOR NOW.
So we can have our cake, eat it and save some for tomorrow.
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by promoting reliance upon Dorje Shugden you are implicitly stating that the Dalai Lama is wrong to ban this practice, that the ban itself is wrong and so anyone implementing and upholding it is engaging in a wrong action and is therefore at fault.
if the ban is wrong then the Dalai Lama is at fault and the correct action is to oppose this ban, which necessarily involves discrediting its instigator - how can it not?
there is no promoting Dorje Shugden without discrediting the Dalai Lama. you can't have your cake and eat it.
This is the very point why I am drawn to this website. Because it gives me a logical way to NOT criticise the Dalai Lama yet keep my Protector practice. It IS exactly so i can have my cake and eat it too. And it makes sense to me. See the article I found in the archives and posted last night. http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=99.0
In every contentious situation, there are always different points of view. Something all visitors to this site SHOULD consider is that this website DOES have mission statement which i think a few people who contribute to this forum still don't get. Anyway, here is the mission statement for your convenience.
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=27
Mission Statement
This website, an ongoing work in progress, is dedicated to the glorification and deeper appreciation of the name and holy work of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, who by peaceful, increasing, subjugating and wrathful means spreads in this world the general and profound teachings of the Buddhadharma that can dispel all suffering and its causes. We believe that what may sound contradictory today, will be revealed as skilful means in the future.
It is dedicated to the lineage Lamas, without whom the holy teachings would have disappeared, and without whose blessings, obtained by a pure bond of faith and reverence, the transmission is broken and the foundation of Enlightenment destroyed.
It is dedicated to the increasing number of aspiring practitioners who have been affected by the apparent controversy about the nature and intent of Gyalchen Dorje Shugden, whose enlightened mind and qualities have and are being recognized and relied upon by so many exalted Masters, some of them with reincarnation lineages all the way back to Buddha Shakyamuni.
We have no wish to convert or even convince anyone about this. In Buddhism we can only convert ourselves, by studying and applying the methods offered – if you practice Tara and become more arrogant and materialistic, it is a bad practice, as far as YOU are concerned. If you pray to Dorje Shugden and become more humble and committed to the Bodhisattva ideal, it is a good practice, as far as YOU are concerned. It is our thoughts, words and actions that make karma. It is our motivation that determines these.
We have a great wish to serve in healing the schism and doubts created in the minds of those new to Dharma or otherwise yet unable to look deeper and strive to apply the principles of non-harming and introspection on every level.
For those passing judgment on enlightened Beings (can you REALLY be sure who is and who is not?) – may we remind you of the Lamrim teachings where it is stated that converting anyone at the cost of their faith in their previous teachers or religion is equal to killing a thousand Buddhas. May we remind you that creating schism within the Sangha is one of the five “crimes of immediate retribution”. May we remind you of the Bodhisattva vow of never giving up Bodhicitta. If something or someone is harmful, misdirected etc., wouldn’t the sign of true practitioners be that their compassion grows?
For those who are influenced by these judgments – their door to Dharma may well close for this life, and who knows when such an opportunity will arise again. Anyone truly concerned could easily avoid the horrible karma created in this way, by truly practicing what they believe is good and becoming a shiny example of goodness and wisdom that speaks for itself.
It is dedicated to provide information and inspiration for those with an affinity to Dharmapala Dorje Shugden, based on writings, sayings, prayers and praises by enlightened Masters and their examples of wisdom and compassion, as well as on sharing interesting thoughts of intelligent people.
Much of our own thoughts and conclusions will have to remain in the realm of speculation, just like so much that has been written, as we are ordinary beings lacking the clairvoyance of the wise. We will, however, do so with the sole aim to present possible ways to see what arises as the display of enlightened minds, not the battle between right and wrong, so as to decrease afflictive emotions and actions and to invite us all to focus on our ongoing responsibility to look deeper; to look within.
“Drive all enemies into one,” as the old Kadampas said; the one (and only) enemy being of course the self-grasping and self-cherishing mind.
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His Holiness the Dalai Lama Clarifies Statement on Retirement
Wednesday, 15 December 2010 17:44 Tibetan Official Media: Tibet Net .
Dharamshala: "More than 99 per cent of Tibetans in and outside Tibet trust me, so I have the moral responsibility to serve them. My call for complete retirement does not mean that I will forget the Tibetan struggle. I am a Tibetan and every Tibetan has the moral obligation to carry out our own struggle," His Holiness told reporters in Kalimpong yesterday. (watch video - http://dalailama.com/webcasts/post/156-his-holiness-clarifies-his-statements-on-retirement )
His Holiness said some Tibetans living inside Tibet express anxiety and confusion over his retirement plans. "I want to hand over the ceremonial role such as signing of legislatures and documents to the democratically elected leadership. But some Tibetans inside Tibetan are anxious and confused that the Dalai Lama is now no longer interested about the Tibetan struggle. No, it is not," he said.
He reiterated that efforts to resolve the issue of Tibet would remain one of his three commitments.
He spoke about his efforts to bring democratic reforms in Tibet before 1959 and later in exile.
Since my childhood I always admire the system of democracy. In 1952, I started reform committee and some reforms were carried out. Then after 1959 while in exile we had set up own organisation set up as the Central Tibetan Administration. We started the process of democratisation and put in place elected political leadership in 2001.
"I always tell the elected Tibetan leadership to take full responsibility as if there is no Dalai Lama and they are doing it," he said.
(Based on report filed by Sheja Editor Kelsang Khudup from Kalimpong)
from: http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/news/international/1318-his-holiness-the-dalai-lama-clarifies-statement-on-retirement
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Well, you are right. The existence of this whole site is obvious we do not agree with the Dalai Lama. How more obvious do you want?
But what is the point of attacking the Dalai Lama? It is like throwing eggs at a huge mountain. Just keep promoting Dorje Shugden, promoting everything about it and indirectly ppl can see the ban is wrong. Why be obsessed with Dalai Lama and give him more power? If you can't get in through the back door, get in through the window. Why stand outside and complain about not getting into the door? Just get in already. Promote Dorje Shugden and forget about Dalai Lama for now.
Nobody here agrees with the Dalai Lama's actions re this ban. Nobody. Educate the ban being wrong in every other way for now and leave the Dalai Lama out. When ppl see the ban is wrong, then automatically, the Dalai Lama will be asked why and questioned or look strange for having this ban. Pressure by logic, information and showing how ridiculous the ban is will appeal to alot more individuals especially those who know nothing or very little of Buddhism and the issue.
Also since Dalai Lama is flying high everywhere, it makes very bad publicity to put him down. It turns ppl away. So without being obvious about the Dalai Lama, just focus on the ban. Easier for ppl to digest FOR NOW.
So we can have our cake, eat it and save some for tomorrow.
Thaimonk, I totally agree with your thinking.
We all have negative qualities. But just talking about how bad it is and promoting it ain't going to make it any better. Thus, we engage ourselves in more positive deeds. Thus, this is what we as Buddhist (which i am assuming the participants here are) do. I just don't get it why it is so difficult for people to apply this same thinking when it comes to the Dalai Lama. Perhaps it's a habituated thinking and ways of DEALING with people who treat us in an ill manner... to "fight" them instead of focusing on helping to bring about some form of healing.
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Wow...this thread has heated up with a lot of discussion, as usual - especially when we have those famous two words in here: DALAI LAMA.
I have been sick and have not had the chance to log in earlier. I am only catching up now.
As I read through the various comments in here, I like THAIMONK's best.
Let me explain why.
It is simple. Because it is EMPOWERING and INSPIRING.
It empowers us to do something positive and not just be sad, angry, whine and complain.
It inspires us to become much more in the process.
I love these words - "GET IN ALREADY."
Indeed, with such a positive mind set and attitude - "we can have our cake, eat it and save some for tomorrow".
Fanstatic! Totally love it!
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Despite what is happening, Dalai Lama is still who he is, and he has just been listed in the Top 25 Political Icons by TIME magazine.
Tibetan leader Dalai Lama among world's top political icons: TIME magazine
Dharamshala, February 07: Tibetan spiritual leader Dalai Lama was Sunday listed among the World’s top 25 political icons in a survey finding conducted by Time magazine.
The Dalai Lama, according to magazine, is 'not only the greatest and most public advocate for Tibetan rights and the virtues of Tibetan Buddhism, but also for interfaith tolerance and peace as well to people around the world.
'To countless Tibetans, the Dalai Lama is a spiritual leader and a head of state in absentia. For decades - and from exile since 1959 - he has worked to resolve tensions between Tibet and China.
'And like Mahatma Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr. before him, the Dalai Lama done so in a manner defined by non-violence and tolerance.
'The Dalai Lama's humility has endeared him to presidents and religious leaders of several countries, affording him the opportunity to raise awareness and drum up support for Tibet on a global scale,' the magazine said.
...
Time's top 25 political icons are: Mahatma Gandhi, Alexander the Great, Mao Zedong, Winston Churchill, Genghis Khan, Nelson Mandela, Abraham Lincoln, Adolf Hitler, Ernesto 'Che' Guevara, Ronald Reagan, Cleopatra, Franklin Roosevelt, the Dalai Lama, Queen Victoria, Benito Mussolini, Akbar the Great, Lenin, Margaret Thatcher, Simon Bolivar, Qin Shi Huang, Kim Il-Sung, Charles de Gaulle, Louis XIV, Haile Selassie, King Richard the Lion heart and Saladin.
For more info, read http://www.tibetexpress.net/en/news/exile/5091-2011-02-07-08-34-24 (http://www.tibetexpress.net/en/news/exile/5091-2011-02-07-08-34-24)
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2046285_2045996_2046135,00.html (http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2046285_2045996_2046135,00.html)
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Thanks Vajraprotector for posting the news.
What stood out to me is that the WORLD sees those qualities as stated in the article about the Dalai Lama.
And to the world, that's what he represents, that's what Buddhism is about - that Dalai Lama promotes interfaith tolerance and peace.
Many hates the Dalai Lama for the ban. But if we look beyond the ban (which I don't think anybody in here supports the ban), Dalai Lama is successful in bringing Buddhism to the world.
Now, how many of us can do that!
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Well said, DS Friend.
Bringing Buddhism to the world, even to the very fore of mainstream media and making it hip and cool even for the celebrities - now every corner of the globe, we can find a Dharma center close by. That is not an easy feat and certainly not an accident.
Consider how difficult and perilous it was in the old days - where even in Tibet, monks and lamas had to travel days or months just to receive teachings or hear a teaching.
We are very fortunate at this day and age and yet, we are not.
It is very much our own collective and personal individual karma ripening.
Best thing to do is to grab every opportunity to practice more, learn more and master what our Guru has taught us. Make most of the opportunities we have now and be grateful that we can still find ways to do what we choose to do.
Despite everything else, Dorje Shugden Monasteries still rise, are built and will continue to flourish. Many people will continue to practice and more will begin to practice.
Dorje Shugden and HIS PRACTICE are not dying in any sense. Not at all.
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I think it would be more beneficial and helpful to our practice to rejoice in the good instead of wallow in the bad - karmically and in terms of our merit (or demerit), this would be much better for our own practice of awareness and wisdom.
Also, please see this thread, "After the Dalai Lama": http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1015.0
I think what tk says here is very relevant to this discussion. Instead of spending so much time talking about what will come to pass and which doesn't really bring benefit, why don't we spend the energy on something that can lead people to something more helpful to their lives and practice - promoting what good there is in the situation.
A rehabituation (from immediately looking at the negative to considering something positive) is necessary!
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Yes. I think if we want to find fault in any Lama or person for that matter, it is very easy as our obscurations are a lot. I think that is why rejoicing in the good qualities of others, especially one like the Dalai Lama is paramount towards developing merits to have their good qualities. Is becomes and is a spiritual practice in the Lamrim and on top of that, it is one when we propitiate Lama Tsongkhapa in Gaden Lhagyalma when we rejoice in his tremendous good deeds that he has done. I think the same, should apply to any Lama...
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Rejoicing even in the good qualities of someone who is NOT enlightened or attained or higher, is helpful also because we consider the potential of someone instead of just focusing on their faults. It is good for us to learn to look at positive aspects of a person and to consider how we can bring out the best in them and help them - then we grow ourselves, we put what we learn into practice, we become more skilful to help others. This is better than "training" our minds to look for the negative, which makes us push people away. Then we create the karma to always see the bad in someone and we push people further and further away.
This applies I think to high Lamas and ordinary beings, our peers etc.
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Developing such view as shared by Beggar and Big Uncle is one that is truly easier said than done.
We don't need any effort at all to "perceive" others' negativities and takes pride in it thinking that we have the "wisdom" to see it. That will hold true IF we are just as quick to perceive positive qualities in that "ill natured" person, people whom we don't like, people whom have crossed us...
So if we find ourselves fixated ONLY/mostly with what's negative in the Dalai Lama, any other lamas, any persons for that matter, than I'd think best we not kid ourselves and take heed.
If we allow ourselves to view people negatively, view faults in our lama,...when will it stop. If we allow ourselves to pick at one fault, that will lead us to the 2nd fault, 3rd fault... which will then be creating much obstacles for ourselves in developing the view that our Guru is one with Vajradhara Buddha.
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Dear Big Uncle and Beggar, I agree whole-heartedly with what you both wrote.
It does apply to everyone - young or old, ordained or not, Highly attained or not.
Imagine if, with our own flaws and shortcomings, we are rejected or branded as a useless and hopeless cause - no one is bothered to look at our potential or just keep highlighting and reminding us of our faults and weaknesses, and that seem to be the only thing that everyone is fixated on about us, our mistakes, our negativities - what would become of us? What kind of people would we grow into? Would we grow at all?
Imagine if no one ever forgave us for all the things that we have done wrong and no one would ever give us another chance? Where would we be today?
Truth is - we do want people to accept the worst of us but to always imagine our best potential. We would them to understand us and help us. We would appreciate anyone who would nurture us and guide us as well.
That part is definitely easy to do. It is doing the same unto others that we have problem getting it right and consistent.
I believe it is a matter of training our minds and attitude.
We are not used to doing this for others. Hence, we find it difficult. We have been so accustomed to expecting others to do it for us all this time.
I remember one gentleman who told me that he is not worried when working with difficult people. He said, "I am not interested in engaging the 80% bad in a person. I am only interested in engaging the 20% good in him or her. Because that 20% can become bigger and take over the rest of the person with help, nurturing, care and kindness."
At the end of the day, results do speak for themselves - the people whom this gentleman have worked with, do eventually become much better people. Even those who have been hardened criminals before. They all changed after working with him.
It really does make a difference when someone actually believes in us and paints a picture of a better person whom we can become for us to see. Without seeing a picture of a better us, how can we even begin to imagine that we can also become better?
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I found this interesting article, where the Dalai Lama advises to "take action without using negative emotion" in the face of adversity, which is what this website is advocating when taking a stance against the ban imposed on Dorje Shugden practice. This is all about not expressing negative emotion, which is what i think Buddhism is about, right? I still read words of hatred elsewhere on the net against the Dalai Lama because of the Shugden issue and likewise words from the pro-Dalai Lama anti-Shugden camp. If we are to represent the Dharma well, shouldn't we stop already with the anger against each other, ignorance of the real issues and the toxic attachment to the anger?
HOW TO BE COMPASSIONATE TO ENEMIES?
Someone asked the following question to His Holiness the Dalai Lama:
"How does a person or group of people compassionately and yet straightforwardly confront another person or group of people who have committed crimes of genocide against them?
His Holiness: "When talking about compassion and compassionately dealing with such situations one must bear in mind what is meant by compassionately dealing with such cases. Being compassionate towards such people or such a person does not mean that you allow the other person to do whatever the other person or group of people wishes to do, inflicting suffering upon you and so on. Rather, compassionately dealing with such a situation has a different meaning.
When a person or group of people deals with such a situation and tries to prevent such crimes there is generally speaking two ways in which you could do that, or one could say, two motivations. One is out of confrontation, out of hatred that confronts such a situation. There is another case in which, although in action it may be of the same force and strength, but the motivation would not be out of hatred and anger but rather out of compassion towards the perpetrators of these crimes.
Realising that if you allow the other person, the perpetrator of the crime, to indulge his or her own negative habits then in the long run the other person or group is going to suffer the consequences of that negative action. Therefore, out of the consideration of the potential suffering for the perpetrator of such crimes, then you confront the situation and apply equally forceful and strong measures.
I think this is quite relevant and important in modern society, especially in a competitive society. When someone genuinely practices compassion, forgiveness and humility then sometimes some people will take advantage of such a situation. Sometimes it is necessary to take a countermeasure, then with that kind of reasoning and compassion, the countermeasure is taken with reasoning and compassion rather than out of negative emotion. That is actually more effective and appropriate. This is important. For example my own case with Tibet in a national struggle against injustice we take action without using negative emotion. It sometimes seems more effective."
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Thanks for this great article, WB.
Its very profound indeed.
I'd like to say that I can easily practise what His Holiness is saying because I do agree with every word His Holiness says here, but I know I am not qualified.
I cannot say for sure that my motivation is truly out of compassion. And I cannot say that my motivation is also free from the 8 Worldly Concerns.
I think Enlightened Beings are able operate from their innate compassion as they have been doing so for many lifetimes. Their attainments are accumulative over lifetimes and reinforced in each lifetime.
I can barely control my anger in some instances.
Having said that, this article helps me contemplate my actions and especially thoughts deeper.
It encourages me to question my motives - be it bad or good so that I am really clear as well.
I think among many things, this is what I appreciate about Buddhism and the Protector practice - it makes me see things deeper, clearer and become more aware - or at least, work towards becoming more aware.
I no longer feel I am justified to just express whatever I feel like expressing and take whatever I feel I want as if I am entitled.
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Developing such view as shared by Beggar and Big Uncle is one that is truly easier said than done.
Dear DSFriend,
I am sorry but I don't agree with you. Anything positive or negative can become easier with effort and sometimes a certain behaviour is harder to overcome or change because we have placed a lot of effort towards this in the past. Anything hard can become easier. All depends on karma and effort... and that is determined by our actions. Hence, everything we need to do is determined by our actions. So, I am sure it applies to this as well. I mean you no offense but this is what I think as my Lama has told me this once when I gave the same remark.
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Developing such view as shared by Beggar and Big Uncle is one that is truly easier said than done.
Dear DSFriend,
I am sorry but I don't agree with you. Anything positive or negative can become easier with effort and sometimes a certain behaviour is harder to overcome or change because we have placed a lot of effort towards this in the past. Anything hard can become easier. All depends on karma and effort... and that is determined by our actions. Hence, everything we need to do is determined by our actions. So, I am sure it applies to this as well. I mean you no offense but this is what I think as my Lama has told me this once when I gave the same remark.
I agree with you Big Uncle. If people continue to only see the negative side of His Holiness, there is no way to convince them to see otherwise. But it is possible to overcome the habit of looking at someone's negative qualities.
Despite Dalai Lama's political "front" where his policies might not be what we agree with, we cannot deny his spiritual contributions. Dalai Lama is real as his qualities are real, and it can't be that the whole world is wrong and is ignorant, especially in this day and age where news spreads fast and far.
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judge him by his actions, and react appropriately, with love in your heart.
his actions are harmful; you people are deluding yourselves. i'm sorry.
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Developing such view as shared by Beggar and Big Uncle is one that is truly easier said than done.
Dear DSFriend,
I am sorry but I don't agree with you. Anything positive or negative can become easier with effort and sometimes a certain behaviour is harder to overcome or change because we have placed a lot of effort towards this in the past. Anything hard can become easier. All depends on karma and effort... and that is determined by our actions. Hence, everything we need to do is determined by our actions. So, I am sure it applies to this as well. I mean you no offense but this is what I think as my Lama has told me this once when I gave the same remark.
Absolutely right! easier said than done but NOT impossible. Else we'd all be left absolutely without hope!
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judge him by his actions, and react appropriately, with love in your heart.
There are various ways of reacting "appropriately".
I think speaking very negatively, hurling insults and reacting to the Dalai Lama (or any lama) in an equally aggressive way is not appropriate.
I think it is appropriate to bring to light what the situation is, what is happening or being said and how other innocent practitioners are being suppressed. There is a difference in this and personally attacking the Dalai Lama, and this has often become a fine line.
There are so many different types of people in different situations who are suffering in different ways from this ban on Dorje Shugden. Consider the large majority of Tibetan practitioners, for example who find themselves in a very difficult dilemma, caught between one guru who tells them to practice and one who tells them not to. "Reacting appropriately" can also be about helping these people to maintain a positive view of both their Lamas and find the best possible way to keep their samaya as clear as possible for both sides. In this case, it could be promoting the GOOD actions that the Dalai Lama has done, contemplating other possibilities for what looks like negative actions and helping people to understand the Guru-disciple relationship better.
Reacting appropriately can also have nothing to do with how we react to the Dalai Lama at all. It could be all about how we help the people who are suffering right now by giving them more support and resources for their practice, giving them confidence and assurance. It could be about promoting the truth of Dorje Shugden, rather than continuously just talk about how we see the Dalai Lama's actions the motivation for which we can never really 100% know for sure.
I think reacting appropriately (in any situation, not just this one), is about how we add something positive to a situation that can really help someone; not to add more feelings of ill-will, doubt, criticism, anger, hatred. That's a good guideline to go by, I think.
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I think reacting appropriately (in any situation, not just this one), is about how we add something positive to a situation that can really help someone
well i certainly respect your intention, beggar, and all of you with such a good heart here. i guess we'll just have to agree to differ on the form our different contributions take. good luck - i wish you well.
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I think reacting appropriately (in any situation, not just this one), is about how we add something positive to a situation that can really help someone
well i certainly respect your intention, beggar, and all of you with such a good heart here. i guess we'll just have to agree to differ on the form our different contributions take. good luck - i wish you well.
AC: Thank you for your words. I also understand your intention and motivation and I respect that, although we differ. Ultimately, we are all trying to bring strength and support to our fellow practitioners and bring the truth to the world about the real enlightened nature of this practice. Yes, we agree to disagree, but this does not mean I do not also respect you as a fellow Dharma friend and practitioner. We support and bring truth out in many ways because there are going to be many people just like you and me, with differing (but somehow eventually, similar) views.
Respect,
beggar
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THIS IS, TO ME, THE MOST WELL SPOKEN WORDS HERE -
Ultimately, we are all trying to bring strength and support to our fellow practitioners and bring the truth to the world about the real enlightened nature of this practice.
Thank you, Beggar. I love the way you have put it.
All of us are here because we have somehow benefited from Dorje Shugden and we believe in the power of HIS practice.
Because we have each benefited so much from Dorje Shugden, then we should do our best to bring Dorje Shugden to the rest of the world so that others may receive the same help and benefits. We should work positively and devotedly to bring more awareness of this amazing Protector so that Dorje Shugden can protect everyone else too, not just us.