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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on November 07, 2010, 02:09:48 AM

Title: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: WisdomBeing on November 07, 2010, 02:09:48 AM
I was just wondering - Buddhists pray to be near the Dharma in our next lives so we can continue our journey to Enlightenment. What happens to non-Buddhists? I ask because I am the only one in my family who is a Buddhist and most of the people I know are Christian.

Do Christians earn merits? How do merits help them? This is kind of in relation to the other thread about being good. If they are 'good' Christians, eg they pray to their god, and they obey the 10 commandments - but for example, they are not vegetarian or they gossip a lot, or do anything which contravene the Buddhist precepts but not the Christian, can they be reborn in the three upper realms? Or do they go to their heaven, like Buddhists may go to Sukhavati heaven even if they have not been enlightened?

Can Christians achieve Enlightenment? Or do they eventually in a future life have the karma to become near the Dharma and become Buddhists to be on the parth to Enlightenment?

Ok i know there are a lot of questions here..thanks in advance for sharing your opinions.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Big Uncle on November 08, 2010, 05:29:04 PM
I was just wondering - Buddhists pray to be near the Dharma in our next lives so we can continue our journey to Enlightenment. What happens to non-Buddhists? I ask because I am the only one in my family who is a Buddhist and most of the people I know are Christian.

Do Christians earn merits? How do merits help them? This is kind of in relation to the other thread about being good. If they are 'good' Christians, eg they pray to their god, and they obey the 10 commandments - but for example, they are not vegetarian or they gossip a lot, or do anything which contravene the Buddhist precepts but not the Christian, can they be reborn in the three upper realms? Or do they go to their heaven, like Buddhists may go to Sukhavati heaven even if they have not been enlightened?

Can Christians achieve Enlightenment? Or do they eventually in a future life have the karma to become near the Dharma and become Buddhists to be on the parth to Enlightenment?

Ok i know there are a lot of questions here..thanks in advance for sharing your opinions.

Dear WB,

Christians earn good karma by being good God-fearing followers. They abstain from all that displeases God and this is basically following good ethical conduct. Merit is earned through dedicating virtuous actions with that of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as we have not yet developed a selfless motivation. 

Christians do not have any concept of spiritual awakening except a very vague new age belief in being one with God (I am not an expert of Christianity but I have been a Christian before and this is what I perceived of its more esoteric traditions and thought). However, their good karma could lead them to a good rebirth and maybe seeds of seeing a Buddha image etc could awaken in future lives and they too may practice the Dharma. I know this makes Dharma seemed like the one true path... It is not and perhaps it is being Christian that is best for that person in that life.(ie it serves a good ethical guideline)

Sukhavati and Tushita is not a heaven in the Christian sense. It is not eternal reward of pleasure and excess. Tushita and Sukhavati is a whole world that lacks worldly distractions that we have here and everything fosters spirituality. Such places are also emanated from the mind of a Buddha and therefore to gain access is not so simple as just being good. It requires merit and concentrated effort called powa practice. Hence, Christians can never enter Sukhavati and Tushita unless they made a concentrated effort to connect with it. The best Christians do is enter one of the deva realms, which is actually more of a trap than eternal salvation according to the Lamrim.

Just by following strict orthodox Christian beliefs, there is no chance to gain full enlightenment. Enlightenment is not granted from an outer source, it is achieved from within our own minds. I noticed Christian practices are geared towards seeking 'salvation' from an outer source (God). Hence, I find it impossible for Enlightenment to occur in this manner. However, practicing good ethics with total sincerity would result in a good rebirth and each life time, any of the endless amounts of positive and negative karma could awaken depending on the right conditions.   

Hope this answer helps and if you are to share this with a Christian friend or relative, please answer with discretion as what I explained may not go down too well to a Christian.

Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: WisdomBeing on November 09, 2010, 11:01:32 AM
Dear WB,

Christians earn good karma by being good God-fearing followers. They abstain from all that displeases God and this is basically following good ethical conduct. Merit is earned through dedicating virtuous actions with that of the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as we have not yet developed a selfless motivation. 

Christians do not have any concept of spiritual awakening except a very vague new age belief in being one with God (I am not an expert of Christianity but I have been a Christian before and this is what I perceived of its more esoteric traditions and thought). However, their good karma could lead them to a good rebirth and maybe seeds of seeing a Buddha image etc could awaken in future lives and they too may practice the Dharma. I know this makes Dharma seemed like the one true path... It is not and perhaps it is being Christian that is best for that person in that life.(ie it serves a good ethical guideline)

Sukhavati and Tushita is not a heaven in the Christian sense. It is not eternal reward of pleasure and excess. Tushita and Sukhavati is a whole world that lacks worldly distractions that we have here and everything fosters spirituality. Such places are also emanated from the mind of a Buddha and therefore to gain access is not so simple as just being good. It requires merit and concentrated effort called powa practice. Hence, Christians can never enter Sukhavati and Tushita unless they made a concentrated effort to connect with it. The best Christians do is enter one of the deva realms, which is actually more of a trap than eternal salvation according to the Lamrim.

Just by following strict orthodox Christian beliefs, there is no chance to gain full enlightenment. Enlightenment is not granted from an outer source, it is achieved from within our own minds. I noticed Christian practices are geared towards seeking 'salvation' from an outer source (God). Hence, I find it impossible for Enlightenment to occur in this manner. However, practicing good ethics with total sincerity would result in a good rebirth and each life time, any of the endless amounts of positive and negative karma could awaken depending on the right conditions.   

Hope this answer helps and if you are to share this with a Christian friend or relative, please answer with discretion as what I explained may not go down too well to a Christian.


Dear BU,

Thanks for your reply. This is something I have been puzzling about. From what you share, it does seem like the only way out of samsara is through Dharma.. so it does become 'the only way'? And as everyone does good deeds, they will gain the good karma to eventually have contact with Dharma? Is that how it works?

Buddha gave us 84,000 ways to gain Enlightenment. I had thought that one would be the Christian way, one would be the Islamic way etc and that they were just different methods. But from what you share, which is kind of logical, it would seem that people in other religions would not reach Enlightenment?

Would the monks who are sincere in their Christian monasteries and their devotions to God not be able to be enlightened?

I'm still perplexed.



Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: iloveds on November 10, 2010, 06:12:19 PM
I love the logic put forward by Big Uncle... it totally stands on itself and is true that the causes would be made for a good rebirth to follow to carry on creating the karma to come across the dharma.
 
On one of my travels through the muslim parts of the world I did however meet an iman, who gave me a blessing. Being sensitive to energies I can confirm I felt something. Now this is what perplexes me, because you see the exorcist movies etc... with good moral ethics, and beliefs, who is answering their prayers? Devas's?
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: dsiluvu on November 11, 2010, 05:16:09 PM
It is fascinating to find out who exactly are answering the prayers for those non-Buddhist.
I use to think that maybe Jesus is a Bodhisattva/Buddha manifesting in a different form to benefit certain people in different parts of the world as that spiritual path would most suit them.

So if that little theory of mine is right, then would Jesus eventually lead them to a path where they can truly practice the Dharma and gain enlightenment?

Another question I have is if anyone can answer, how is it taking refuge/being baptized as a Christian wash away all your sins and guarantees one from going to the hell realms. They are basically guaranteed a place in heaven even if they murdered again! How does this logic work?     
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 13, 2010, 02:56:41 PM
Buddha taught that one should  not despise the Dharma of non-Buddhists for it is their source of happiness and benefit. One should not despise or harbour contempt for the doctrines of the Hindus, Christians, or other non-Buddhist religions because this attitude of attachment to one's own side while rejecting the possibility of differences is harmful to one's own spiritual career.

One whose Dharma career is tainted by narrow-mindedness and attachment to one's own interests while rejecting those of others will never overcome the many obstacles to the attainment of wisdom or insight.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: LosangKhyentse on November 13, 2010, 03:59:22 PM

Then we should not even despise those who are Buddhists even if their views are different than our's. We should not despise any teachers, lineages or practice that may not match our own.

Being open to Hindus, Christians, Muslims, and all them should include those who are against our lineage.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 13, 2010, 04:06:45 PM
You are right
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 02:45:00 AM
It is fascinating to find out who exactly are answering the prayers for those non-Buddhist.


The same ones who are answering the prayers of the Buddhists
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 02:45:56 AM

I use to think that maybe Jesus is a Bodhisattva/Buddha manifesting in a different form to benefit certain people in different parts of the world as that spiritual path would most suit them.

   

Yes
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 02:47:12 AM

So if that little theory of mine is right, then would Jesus eventually lead them to a path where they can truly practice the Dharma and gain enlightenment?


Yes
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 02:51:57 AM

Another question I have is if anyone can answer, how is it taking refuge/being baptized as a Christian wash away all your sins and guarantees one from going to the hell realms.

Taking refuge doesn't guarantee one from  going again to the hell realms. It's the same as for the Buddhists.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 02:53:05 AM
They are basically guaranteed a place in heaven even if they murdered again!      

They are not guaranteed a place in heaven even if they murdered again.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 03:03:51 AM
! How does this logic work?     

It works the same as for the Buddhists.

Taking refuge is the first, basic step. It will immediately bring benefits but it doesn't guarantee that
one will not go anymore to the hell realms.
In order to attain this goal (not going to the hell realms anymore) one has to  transform one's mind
by practicing the instructions that are associated with the taking of refuge.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 03:13:34 AM
"Would the monks who are sincere in their Christian monasteries and their devotions to God not be able to be enlightened?"

All the sentient beings have the potential to become enlightened
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 03:15:50 AM

Buddha gave us 84,000 ways to gain Enlightenment.


21'000 breathings in the day. Guru, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on November 14, 2010, 03:50:59 AM

  From what you share, it does seem like the only way out of samsara is through Dharma.. so it does become 'the only way'?


The way out of samsara is: Guru, Buddha, Dharma, Sangha - 21'000 breathings in the day.
It just happens that Christian monks can, finally, practice in exactly the same way.
Of course, the beginning points of the road are innumerable. But the end point will be the same.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: kurava on November 20, 2010, 11:30:07 PM

I use to think that maybe Jesus is a Bodhisattva/Buddha manifesting in a different form to benefit certain people in different parts of the world as that spiritual path would most suit them.

   

Yes

Buddha or the enlightened mind can manifest as the teachers of other faiths or religions as this is one of many skillful means of a buddha.

Some people may not have the karma to meet the 3 jewels in the present life, truly following the teachings of other religions help ensure they create the main causes ( the practice of giving + moral discipline) to take human rebirth in
future lives when they might have the opportunity to meet the dharma.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: triesa on November 29, 2010, 12:37:25 PM
After reading all the posts, I want to say how fortunate we are to have met the buddha, dharma, and sangha in this very life. To have a recognised incarnated Guru as one's spiritual master, to show us the path to ultimate liberation which the Guru has achieved himself/herself. How rare that is!!!

I once heard that enlightenment cannot be achieved if we still have the "self" or "I" or in other words, the ego existing. When one has completely eradicate the EGO, there is nothing to pull us back into samsara.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Big Uncle on December 04, 2010, 09:11:11 PM
All spiritual paths lead towards Enlightenment. It is a question of how direct the path is. Some paths take a longer route while some are shorter and a more direct route. After reading everybody's post, I realise that the question posed should be what is real spiritual practice that transcends religion and dogma so all can practice according to their faith. One fact remains constant is that there is no one religion for everyone as people have various affinity, karma, merit and culture. 
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: hope rainbow on December 06, 2010, 12:27:26 PM
Thank you HS for your comments.
I agree with all your points.

I once heard Robert Thurman talking about the Dalai Lama and explaining how His Holiness rejoyced when he was able to find highly realized masters that were practicing other religions, I remember he mentionned christian ascetics in Spain.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Positive Change on July 15, 2011, 03:36:33 AM
This topic seems to have been buried under all the new post. Thought I would bring it back to the forefront as it is a most interesting post. Every "religion" seem to say the same thing... that their path leads to "salvation", "heaven", "enlightenment", etc.

However, I feel that Buddhism seems to be the only teachings that embraces the other "faiths". As TK says, we should be open to all, even to Buddhist against our lineage.

Having said that, it still really does not answer the question of whether or not Christians are on the so called right path. All the points shared here seems to put Christianity as a somewhat inferior path as only the Dharma will lead one to enlightenment. If we believe Jesus is a Boddhisatva, then why can't Christianity be "the way" too?

I too was Christian and being a good Christian encompasses some of the Boddhisatva vows albeit different interpretations. Surely the prayers and aspirations/motivation of a "God-fearing" Christian can and will create the merits towards enlightenment.

I think, whichever path one takes, it leads to one goal... regardless of how one  it. We should be accepting all in accepting that we are all accepting! I just cannot bear the thought that non Buddhist are wrong just because they do not follow our path.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: WisdomBeing on August 01, 2011, 04:43:25 AM
I think that true Christians who follow Jesus' teachings of compassion, wisdom, humility - would become attained. But the thing is would they become enlightened if they don't even know that this is the goal they should strive for? They are striving to go to heaven... is this the initial scope objective? They do perform confessionals and devotionals which are similar to Buddhists, would these practices accumulate merit? Is self-flagellation in some of the extreme Catholic schools a way of purification?

I'm just trying to compare similar activities to see if they get a similar result in order to talk to my Christian friends on the same page. Not to convert them or anything but just as a platform for discussion.



Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Big Uncle on August 01, 2011, 06:01:46 AM
I think that true Christians who follow Jesus' teachings of compassion, wisdom, humility - would become attained. But the thing is would they become enlightened if they don't even know that this is the goal they should strive for? They are striving to go to heaven... is this the initial scope objective? They do perform confessionals and devotionals which are similar to Buddhists, would these practices accumulate merit? Is self-flagellation in some of the extreme Catholic schools a way of purification?

I'm just trying to compare similar activities to see if they get a similar result in order to talk to my Christian friends on the same page. Not to convert them or anything but just as a platform for discussion.


Interesting thought and discussion here. I believe that the Christian confessions and devotionals does bring about a certain level of purification. I think this is enough ground to go about with your interfaith discussion. However, on the fundamental Buddhist theory of purification, - the four opponent powers, we are lacking a refuge factor in the Christian equation. Therefore, I think the Christian purification practices does purify but it does not go right to the root of the problem. Hence, it doesn't accumulate merit as the faith do not even have a fundamental belief in enlightenment. So I believe some amounts of negative karma can be purified but the causes and tendencies will also remain.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: DSFriend on August 01, 2011, 07:26:03 AM
the christian bible states that jesus is the only way. in the Buddhist scripture, it is stated that buddha is the way. I did not know this when i was a christian because i was taught that "jesus is the only way".

As i studied the Lamrim, i realised that it is important to have faith and conviction that what we are studying and the path is the only/best way for us. Else, why study and devote our lives to a path that is second best for us.

However, the big question of is it the only and best way for everyone else? If it is not, then logically, buddha's teachings are not encompassing and there is a flaw..thus, how can he be a valid jewel for refuge.

If i were to logically think this way, then i would surmise that other paths may lead to the same destiny but is not be the complete path to lead one to enlightenment.

Please correct me if i have incorrect logic and view.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on August 01, 2011, 09:06:17 AM
I think that true Christians who follow Jesus' teachings of compassion, wisdom, humility - would become attained. But the thing is would they become enlightened if they don't even know that this is the goal they should strive for? They are striving to go to heaven... is this the initial scope objective? They do perform confessionals and devotionals which are similar to Buddhists, would these practices accumulate merit? Is self-flagellation in some of the extreme Catholic schools a way of purification?

I'm just trying to compare similar activities to see if they get a similar result in order to talk to my Christian friends on the same page. Not to convert them or anything but just as a platform for discussion.


Tara                            Mary
Buddha                      God the Father
Guru                           God the Son (Jesus)
Dharmadhatu           Holy Spirit

Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Heartspoon on August 01, 2011, 09:09:58 AM
The essential nature of Tara is primordial wisdom from beginningless time.
Through the power of skillful means she manifests as the play of the enlightened wisdom
of all buddhas. That is why she is often referred to as the mother of all buddhas.

Ultimately, Tara is the nature of dharmadhatu itself.

The essential nature of Mary is primordial wisdom from beginningless time.
Through the power of skillful means she manifests as the play of the enlightened wisdom
of God. That is why she is often referred to as the mother of God.

Ultimately, Mary is the nature of Holy Spirit itself.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: dondrup on August 01, 2011, 07:06:32 PM
I attended a relative's funeral mass at a local Catholic church recently. it struck me then that the element of faith in Catholicism or Christanity is of utmost importance.  Without faith, Catholics or Christians cannot at all embrace their forms of religion or path.  To them, the ultimate goal is a place in heaven.  For us the Buddhist heaven is not the ultimate destination.  Buddhists strive for Enlightenment which is the ultimate goal of our practice.  Have the Catholics or Christians chosen the wrong paths?  No, heaven is a valid place to go to. 

However, heaven is still part of samsara! If the Catholics or Christians eventually found out that Full Enlightenment is what they need to gain, they will then realise that it had taken them longer than necessary to reach the destination!  Catholicism or Christianity can be practised by those with the affinity and karmic connections.  As Buddhists, we should feel very fortunate that we have adopted and have strong affinity with Buddhism that directly bring us to Full Enlightenment.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: dsiluvu on August 01, 2011, 09:06:52 PM
Christianity and Buddhism both teaches Compassion and Wisdom and a goal...heaven/Nirvana. Both are similar. Just the path towards getting to that destination is different.

Christianity may seem like taking the longer path... like taking a bus up the hill. In Buddhism there are also many paths; Theravana, Mahayana and Vijrayana.  It is said that the Theravana path is the very basis (like taking the bus) and one would not achieve full Enlightenment unless one realises the Mahayana Path. Then for the more advanced, Vajrayana (taking a jet up the hill). All seem to be heading one direction, which path suits us most is totally up to our level, karma and merits also.

If we are a real good Christian/Catholic, like mother Theresa, whom I think practices the Mahaya like path, which is compassion for all sentient beings, which puts others first, I think she is like a Boddhisattva on earth. There is no doubt she is one! But has she gained Enlightenment? Would she return to do more - definitely. Will she gain Enlightenment, I definitely she will. She can return and be reborn in a situation where she learns more, does more and base on her loving giving nature, she would easily have those same qualities and imprints to continue her journey towards Enlightenment. Who knows maybe she will be reborn in to a Buddhist path.

All is just labels what matters is what are we doing now to get to our final destination and what path we choose is a choice we make that suits our level now. And the end of the day the roots are the same = Comapssion & Wisdom!

Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Klein on February 05, 2012, 06:32:52 PM
"Would the monks who are sincere in their Christian monasteries and their devotions to God not be able to be enlightened?"

I don't think the Christian monks will be Enlightened based on what they practise in the monasteries. Being Enlightened is about achieving Perfect Wisdom and Boddhicitta.  Christians do not have any practices that help the practitioner in achieving Perfect Wisdom. Boddhicitta, I presume would be more possible as Christians are encouraged to operate from God's love.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: hope rainbow on February 05, 2012, 06:58:39 PM
"Would the monks who are sincere in their Christian monasteries and their devotions to God not be able to be enlightened?"

I don't think the Christian monks will be Enlightened based on what they practise in the monasteries. Being Enlightened is about achieving Perfect Wisdom and Boddhicitta.  Christians do not have any practices that help the practitioner in achieving Perfect Wisdom. Boddhicitta, I presume would be more possible as Christians are encouraged to operate from God's love.

I did hear Robert Thurman speak about this on a TV program a while ago.
He said that The Dalai Lama met with some christian mystics in Spain and they changed his view on the subject.

As far as I am concerned I am not enlightened and could not judge.
But I will say this: enlightenment is taking 3 great eons of practice (it is said) and any religious practice from a tradition that has been around for at least 1,500 years and that has not degenerated, will propel one on the path of enlightenment.

And I'll quote the Dalai Lama again: "it is not what religion your practice that matters it is how seriously your practice it".
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: lotus1 on February 05, 2012, 10:24:27 PM
Yes, i fully agreed with hope rainbow. Whether a Christian can be enlighten or not is not for me to judge. also, we should not judge by just looking at one life time only. The law of Karma is beyond one life time.

i couldn't agree more that the most important thing is still whether we ourselves are serious in our practice & work towards enlightenment. May all of us treasure the 8 freedoms & 10 endowments that we have now and practice well towards enlightenment so that we can be enlightened & able to benefit more ASAP.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Amitabha on February 10, 2012, 01:43:49 AM
buddhist prayers is spontaneous enlightenmnt in this lifespan.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: pgdharma on February 12, 2012, 01:35:28 PM
I think if all human beings irrespective of race or religion practice compassion and wisdom, eventually it will lead to enlightenment. However most religion, except Buddhism, emphasis more on love and compassion instead of wisdom. To be enlightened we need  both compassion and wisdom.

Enlightened Beings can manifest as teachers of other faith or religion to teach the dharma or the right path towards enlightenment. Some people may not have the merits to receive the Buddha's teachings now, so if they meet another religion and practice love and compassion they may collect enough merits to take rebirth in future to meet with the Buddhadharma. Enlightenment takes eons to achieve whether one is a Buddhist or a non-Buddhist.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: negra orquida on May 05, 2012, 04:53:05 PM
Quote
Another question I have is if anyone can answer, how is it taking refuge/being baptized as a Christian wash away all your sins and guarantees one from going to the hell realms. They are basically guaranteed a place in heaven even if they murdered again! How does this logic work?

The mere procedure of taking refuge / being baptized as a Christian does not wash away all sins and does not guarantee one a place in heaven.  It cannot work that way by logic, and it is a sweeping statement.  If it were the case, then all Christians who had been baptized would not have any problems, the police would be overwhelmed by Christian murderers until there is no need for police, prisons, and judiciary system... So it cannot be that Jesus or Prophet Muhammad or any other great saints and masters would say something like that.  If it was so, why would they teach their disciples volumes and volumes of teachings! Why would they teach something so blatantly illogical?

Refuge and baptism will only "work" if we go a (lot more) step(s) further by learning the religion that we have accepted.  Taking refuge or getting baptised under any religion is basically professing to the world that you believe in that religion's principles and want to live by it, because it gives your happiness. So if we take refuge, but don't learn it up, don't apply, don't change our bad habits into goood according to what the religion teaches us... then no matter how many Gods and Buddhas and Deities we pray to, will not get us out of hell after this life!  Religion is not supposed to encourage us to be lazy, greedy and expect things to become better for us without any effort on our part.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Midakpa on May 06, 2012, 09:38:18 AM
I think Big Uncle has answered Wisdom Being's queries quite well. I couldn't have done better.

I also think that even though we have a firm belief in our own religion, we shouldn't criticize the beliefs of others. This applies to practitioners of all religions. Whatever people practise or not practise is because of their karma. In our past lives we could have followed all types of religions and practices. Knowing this, compassion arises and we become tolerant and kind.

So whatever religion we are following now is the result of our karma or prayers made in the past which have ripened. If for some reason we do not practise the present religion well and become heretics or atheists, who knows what will happen in the next life? We may not meet with the right conditions again for a very long time.

Therefore, we must be mindful what our own religion teaches - respect for others, patience, kindness, tolerance and compassion. We must bear in mind that karma can be changed and create the causes for ourselves and others to obtain lasting happiness.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: sonamdhargey on May 06, 2012, 03:19:37 PM
Every religion is good in their way. Christians getting Enlightenment through their practice only they can understand and knows best with their practices. I believe Christians doing good deeds can gain merits. After all isn't it that the Buddhist teaching teaches us to practice practice virtues? And with good practices as a Christian, they generate merits to meet the Dharma in the future or their future life is possible right? There are so may religions that caters to all walks of life and it all depends on our Karma and as a Buddhist I'm glad that I have the merits to be a Buddhist this life to learn the Dharma.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Q on May 09, 2012, 08:20:10 AM
I was just wondering - Buddhists pray to be near the Dharma in our next lives so we can continue our journey to Enlightenment. What happens to non-Buddhists? I ask because I am the only one in my family who is a Buddhist and most of the people I know are Christian.

Do Christians earn merits? How do merits help them? This is kind of in relation to the other thread about being good. If they are 'good' Christians, eg they pray to their god, and they obey the 10 commandments - but for example, they are not vegetarian or they gossip a lot, or do anything which contravene the Buddhist precepts but not the Christian, can they be reborn in the three upper realms? Or do they go to their heaven, like Buddhists may go to Sukhavati heaven even if they have not been enlightened?

Can Christians achieve Enlightenment? Or do they eventually in a future life have the karma to become near the Dharma and become Buddhists to be on the parth to Enlightenment?

Ok i know there are a lot of questions here..thanks in advance for sharing your opinions.

I have read many books on comparative religion several years ago... although I no longer remember enough to quote from the book, but I do know what I understood from them are... both Christianity and Buddhism preaches the same thing. If they are the same teachings, that makes Jesus an Enlightened being as well.

I have always thought Jesus is Enlightened anyway. Therefore, all the teachings that Jesus has given should and would bring his practitioners to Enlightenment... only ofcourse it is described very differently from Buddhist terms, probably due to the location Christianity took place, the people, and  the time when Christianity was introduced to the world. Don't you feel the Saints in the Christian world are very much alike Buddhist Mahasiddhas? Wonderful signs of Enlightenment and the possession of higher wisdom can be seen, and great practitioners of both religions respectively.
Title: Re: Christians and merits/Enlightenment
Post by: Dondrup Shugden on May 19, 2015, 07:18:13 AM
Basically without misrepresentation of the scriptures of any religion is about virtuous living in contribution to benefit others and achieving a clear mind.

In Buddhism we talk about Karma, purification through virtuous acts to gain merits and attainments on our path to enlightenment.  In developing humility we respect our Teachers as described (Vajrayana Doctrine) in the nine verses of Guru Devotion.  The Guru gives us the methods and we work on ourselves.

It is doing the work on our own that (in my opinion)is the major difference in Buddhism in comparison to other major religions of the world.  This work on self is called mind training for in believing in rebirth, it is the mind that comes back but the body that changes with each rebirth.

As for other major religions, the tenets is still about doing virtuous acts to gain a place of bliss with God.  My only question on this simplistic way is that it is too easy to create in our mind a being like GOD and places all and everything on Him to do the hard work.

I used to go to church and had my education in a Christian missionary school and why I was never baptised was when I was told at a Sunday assembly, to walk down the aisle ask for forgiveness of my sins, get baptised and I will go to heaven to be with God.  Easy way out.

Having said all the above, I still believe that when a person practises Bodhichitta (whether he or she knows it or not) will gain merits and will be born in a good place. And it is not confined to only Buddhists.

Bodhichitta is a Buddhism terminology and the meaning of kindness, compassion, care and love for others is universal.