dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: hope rainbow on August 03, 2010, 07:35:55 AM
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As I research more on the high lamas that are supporters of Dorje Shugden or that used to practice Dorje Shugden openly, I notice that there is a pattern of EXCELLENCE in all their actions.
Excellence in their teachings and in their compassion.
Here is another example with Dagom Rinpoche, a stable practitioner of Dorje Shugden, and who's life is clearly led with bodhicitta.
I read on Wikipedia that he passed into paranirvana in 2007.
Yet, does anyone here knows if a re-incarnation has been found and confirmed?
quoted from Wikipedia
(QUOTE)
[...]
Thus for a long time Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche has been teaching Buddha Dharma and giving spiritual advice to thousands of students throughout the world, always with love and compassion. Rinpoche does not at all like to deal with politics.
He only gives spiritual and truthful advice.
It is because of this that his blissful Dharma activities have been flourishing purely year after year.
Yet Rinpoche’s faith and respect in the Dharma Protector Dorje Shugden has remained firm and unchanging from early childhood up to the present time.
Because of this, some Tibetan political officials in Dharamsala have, since 1996, made intense effort to split Rinpoche’s many faithful disciples away from him.
Dorje Shugden is a very renowned compassionate protector deity in Tibetan Buddhism.
Hundreds of highly qualified masters and many tens of thousands of people of many different nationalities have revered him as a supreme supramundane protector.
Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche does not care for any mixture of religion and politics and, on the contrary, is one who, in every country where he travels, puts forth great effort in solely spiritual means, for the happiness and peace of everyone.
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(END OF QUOTE)
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Much has been praised about the works of this illustrious master of our time. His incarnation is none other than the holy being who has brought the sacred teachings of Yamantaka from India to Tibet, Ra Lotsawa himself. Even his previous incarnation upholds the sacred teachings in an amazing manner spreading Buddhism in the tradition of Je Lobsang Drakpa and Dorje Shugden to people of many nations.
Under circumstances, Rinpoche has also decided to enter into clear light in Bangkok, Thailand! This creates a beginning of an era for both Tsongkhapa's teachings and Dorje Shugden to be widespread in the south east Asian region! Rinpoche's wisdom, foresight and great compassion has also led to the new revolution of Dorje Shugden's practice being incorporated into the sacred Gelug Refuge Tree. U can see Dorje Shugden appearing within this golden tree of treasures!
There's hope, Hope Rainbow, look at this link. Rinpoche's definitely back and waiting for the right time to manifest His enlightened activities again!
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=748.0
cheers
H1N1
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WOW!
Thank you H1N1... I did not notice this post...
Very exciting news! There is the reply to my question. Very rejoicing!
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Yes, Dagom Rinpoche's incarnation is back. However, it is not be revealed due to safety reasons. I sure am looking forward to receiving more news when the time is right.
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I have also heard from reliable sources that Dogam Rinpoche's incarnation is back, but they are keeping that very secret for the time being. I have the good fortune to meet this illustrious master in Nepal at his ladrang in 2004, at that time I was still very new to the Dharma, and I felt exceptionally lucky to have a chance to receive his blessings before he passed away to clear light in 2007. I still recall that he had a "flame" mark in the center of his forehead, between his eye brows. He was regarded as the enmanation of Yamataka, if I was niot mistaken.
I am delighted to know that his incarnation is back and that this young incarnation will grow up and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma.
Triesa
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It is indeed most inspiring to read and know that great masters are coming back. It brings so much hope and deepens faith that these Tulkus are back, life after life.
At times of great uncertainty and much confusion, we need these great Tulku even more. They have been able to control their rebirths and master their attainments life after life. We all would benefit greatly when these benevolent Enlightened Beings choose to return to our world again, to guide us and help us.
Yes, as Hope Rainbow wrote, Tulkus possess "Excellence in their teachings and in their compassion" because they care about the greater whole.
The mere fact that they do return and they exist speak volumes!
I am always very happy and inspired when I read stories of Tulkus.
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It is indeed most inspiring to read and know that great masters are coming back. It brings so much hope and deepens faith that these Tulkus are back, life after life.
At times of great uncertainty and much confusion, we need these great Tulku even more. They have been able to control their rebirths and master their attainments life after life. We all would benefit greatly when these benevolent Enlightened Beings choose to return to our world again, to guide us and help us.
Yes, as Hope Rainbow wrote, Tulkus possess "Excellence in their teachings and in their compassion" because they care about the greater whole.
The mere fact that they do return and they exist speak volumes!
I am always very happy and inspired when I read stories of Tulkus.
The mere fact they can return does speak volumes. Can I or the rest of us do that? NO.
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I always think that tulkus who have been recognised have so much to live up to. Whether they are in the monastery or teaching outside to lay people, tulkus are watched by all to see if they match their previous lives' incarnations. It's fine in the monastery, because they are among the Sangha but for lay people to 'judge' if the tulku is a tulku i think it's a bit much because what basis do we have to judge on.
I do think that if the tulku does not live as we expect - eg he decides to disrobe like Lama Osel - it is not from fault of the tulku but the karma from his students. In our context, the Mahasiddha Biwapa was seen as a 'bad man' because Vajrayogini and her dakini entourage were seen as ordinary women to those who could not see that they were enlightened Beings. So the fault was from the subject - those who perceived wrongly rather than the object.
All these incredible Lamas coming back will be the next generation of Dharma teachers. Whether they manifest fully or not is up to us.
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
I don't know about everyone else but I think it matters little how Dagom Rinpoche died. I have the same attitude when it comes to all funerals - I'd rather think about how the person lived, and rejoice in their great deeds, than nitpick about the manner of death.
Having said that, how Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen died was fundamental to his arising as a Protector soooo...
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
The Tibetans in Nepal mentioned this over and over. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche was slowly poisoned. They had Tibetan spies posted outside of Rinpoche's ladrang always to watch activities. It is happening now also. When the poison finally took hold, Rinpoche was trying to fly out of Nepla via Bangkok, and was very ill in Bangkok and could not proceed out to Switzerland for treatment and passed in Bangkok.
The rumours are unconfirmed. But this website has been informed of the information. The information is not necessarily the view of this website, but it is sharing with other practitioners such a threat is there.
Another view is that Rinpoche passed away of stomach cancer in bangkok on the way to Switzerland.
But the attempt to harm the lamas of the Dorje Shugden lineage is a fact by the TGIE.
Mana
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
I don't know about everyone else but I think it matters little how Dagom Rinpoche died. I have the same attitude when it comes to all funerals - I'd rather think about how the person lived, and rejoice in their great deeds, than nitpick about the manner of death.
Having said that, how Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen died was fundamental to his arising as a Protector soooo...
Perhaps, he was "poisoned" but more importantly, was it the poison which "killed" him or he entered clear light by his own doing? Dagom Rinpoche is back. If he can control his perfect return, I'm sure he could control his previous departure.
I do agree with DharmaDefender...no point to nitpick
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
The Tibetans in Nepal mentioned this over and over. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche was slowly poisoned. They had Tibetan spies posted outside of Rinpoche's ladrang always to watch activities. It is happening now also. When the poison finally took hold, Rinpoche was trying to fly out of Nepla via Bangkok, and was very ill in Bangkok and could not proceed out to Switzerland for treatment and passed in Bangkok.
The rumours are unconfirmed. But this website has been informed of the information. The information is not necessarily the view of this website, but it is sharing with other practitioners such a threat is there.
Another view is that Rinpoche passed away of stomach cancer in bangkok on the way to Switzerland.
But the attempt to harm the lamas of the Dorje Shugden lineage is a fact by the TGIE.
Mana
Thank you Mana for shedding light re this subject.
I am with DharmaDefender re her thoughts about Dagom Rinpoche's passing. Yes HE Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche is a supreme being and his birth/death are significant but if we cannot pick/pin point anything re the case, then I don't see it worth further pursuit.
I wish that the TGIE can stop killing all these holy Lamas of our sacred Lineage. It is really detrimental to the Buddha Dharma and the same goes for the culture and livelihood of Tibetans - their spirituality.
May this current incarnation of Dagom Dorje Chang swiftly ride on his vows to translate the ancient Buddhist teachings for the modern minds of today.
Om Svasti
H1N1
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
The Tibetans in Nepal mentioned this over and over. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche was slowly poisoned. They had Tibetan spies posted outside of Rinpoche's ladrang always to watch activities. It is happening now also. When the poison finally took hold, Rinpoche was trying to fly out of Nepla via Bangkok, and was very ill in Bangkok and could not proceed out to Switzerland for treatment and passed in Bangkok.
The rumours are unconfirmed. But this website has been informed of the information. The information is not necessarily the view of this website, but it is sharing with other practitioners such a threat is there.
Another view is that Rinpoche passed away of stomach cancer in bangkok on the way to Switzerland.
But the attempt to harm the lamas of the Dorje Shugden lineage is a fact by the TGIE.
Mana
:-[ So sad....may his precious reincarnation double his past activites.
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The lengths some people will go to in order to stop Dorje Shugden practice sends shivers up my spine. Even HH Trijang Rinpoche is not spared. I was very struck by what he said in his radio interview:
"It is very clear my life might be in danger. So I have decided to leave my Labrang and disrobe, so that none of the Shugden worshippers can ask me to be their leader. I hope that this way I can respect the wishes of the Dalai Lama and still revere the protector, practicing in private and far from everyone. I intend to follow a middle way, neither for nor against Shugden. I appeal to both parties not to contact me.
In my own Labrang I have recently witnessed a kind of factionalism and I have discovered that one person in particular was planning an evil conspiracy. This plan was to murder my assistant, Tharchin, and to implicate His Holiness’s government in exile with this odious crime. The conspirator aimed to become chakzoe [manager] of my estate. Tharchin has been very kind to me, more so than my own parents, and has taken care of me since I was three years old. As well as managing the affairs of my Labrang.
With my own ears I heard this person discussing on the telephone a plan to assassinate Tharchin. It is really a matter of great sadness and surprise, especially since the person involved in this ploy has been very close to me as well. If he succeeds in his plan, it would be a cause of great trouble for the Labrang, as well as a cause of disgrace to the Tibetan government and His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
These are not lies, but true facts which I want everyone to know. That is why I made this statement.”
I extracted this from http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090.
It is so sad that people will harm Lamas - I cannot imagine what is their motivation :(
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Did i hear right when Admin said he has been poisoned ? >:(
The Tibetans in Nepal mentioned this over and over. Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche was slowly poisoned. They had Tibetan spies posted outside of Rinpoche's ladrang always to watch activities. It is happening now also. When the poison finally took hold, Rinpoche was trying to fly out of Nepla via Bangkok, and was very ill in Bangkok and could not proceed out to Switzerland for treatment and passed in Bangkok.
The rumours are unconfirmed. But this website has been informed of the information. The information is not necessarily the view of this website, but it is sharing with other practitioners such a threat is there.
Another view is that Rinpoche passed away of stomach cancer in bangkok on the way to Switzerland.
But the attempt to harm the lamas of the Dorje Shugden lineage is a fact by the TGIE.
Mana
:-[ So sad....may his precious reincarnation double his past activites.
Yes. May it be so! May Dagom Rinpoche receive all necessary resources to again continue his most beneficial works..
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The lengths some people will go to in order to stop Dorje Shugden practice sends shivers up my spine. Even HH Trijang Rinpoche is not spared. I was very struck by what he said in his radio interview:
"It is very clear my life might be in danger. So I have decided to leave my Labrang and disrobe, so that none of the Shugden worshippers can ask me to be their leader. I hope that this way I can respect the wishes of the Dalai Lama and still revere the protector, practicing in private and far from everyone. I intend to follow a middle way, neither for nor against Shugden. I appeal to both parties not to contact me.
In my own Labrang I have recently witnessed a kind of factionalism and I have discovered that one person in particular was planning an evil conspiracy. This plan was to murder my assistant, Tharchin, and to implicate His Holiness’s government in exile with this odious crime. The conspirator aimed to become chakzoe [manager] of my estate. Tharchin has been very kind to me, more so than my own parents, and has taken care of me since I was three years old. As well as managing the affairs of my Labrang.
With my own ears I heard this person discussing on the telephone a plan to assassinate Tharchin. It is really a matter of great sadness and surprise, especially since the person involved in this ploy has been very close to me as well. If he succeeds in his plan, it would be a cause of great trouble for the Labrang, as well as a cause of disgrace to the Tibetan government and His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
These are not lies, but true facts which I want everyone to know. That is why I made this statement.”
I extracted this from [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=4090.[/url]
It is so sad that people will harm Lamas - I cannot imagine what is their motivation :(
Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.
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Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.
DharmaD,
Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.
Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.
Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.
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Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.
DharmaD,
Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.
Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.
Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.
I think it's ALL of the seven cardinal sins actually, especially if it's our (heaven forbid) guru. Because our guru is the Buddha and enlightened, more precious than our mother and father, he/she is our Dharma teacher, a precept master and doing so would disrupt the harmony of the sangha.
Okay, enough terrible talk.
I think one reason why creating schism in the sangha leads to terrible consequences is because of how wrong view is inherent to the act. For me, wrong view is one of the most difficult things to get rid of. And once we have such a view, we continue to commit negative acts again and again...the karma just continues to build, because our view affects everything we do.
So from wrong view, we create schism. And from creating schism, we create wrong view - watching monks and nuns argue against one another, and us adding fuel to the fire, isn't the way to promote Buddha's teachings. Doing so drives us away from the Dharma, so we don't even have the chance to learn the teachings that will help stop us from creating even more schism!
Sorry if that was a bit muddled, clearly I'm not at my most eloquent today.
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DharmaD,
Yes of course it would be the ultimate sin - to harm our Guru but what i thought was particularly important was that the cardinal sins mention an Arhat, a Dharma Teacher, a Precept Master - thus implying any Dharma Teacher, Arhat, Precept Master.
I remember awhile back, I met a monk who told me that we could not talk badly about other monks. I asked what if the other monk was wrong. The reply was that regardless of if the monk was right or wrong, if we spoke badly, it would be schism. I couldn't understand it then, thinking that it was wrong for the monk to keep quiet and allow the other monk to get away with it. The reason i was given was that nobody gets away with it because of karma.
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Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.
DharmaD,
Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.
Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.
Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.
I think not many people is capable of/ dare to shed the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, kill one's father, kill one's mother, murder a Dharma Teacher, murder a Precept Master, but disrupting the harmony of the Sangha is definitely possible, which might seem "light" in comparison with the crimes mentioned above.
There are many practitioners who criticises various lamas/ Gurus and traditions- online and offline. I find it absurd for people who criticise another tradition and lineage, because:
a) it reflects badly on their own tradition, and I wonder how much do they really know about the other traditions since they have not spent much time studying them
b) there are other attained masters from other traditions and lineages, so it proves that those traditions /lineages are valid
c) why do people spent so much time criticising others when they can use their time to study and practice the Dharma instead?
I also think that culprits who fanned the flames (with accusations especially) are accountable to cause 'ignorant' people to take actions and harm the Sangha - discrimination, death threats, actual harm and so on.
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I think not many people is capable of/ dare to shed the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, kill one's father, kill one's mother, murder a Dharma Teacher, murder a Precept Master, but disrupting the harmony of the Sangha is definitely possible, which might seem "light" in comparison with the crimes mentioned above.
There are many practitioners who criticises various lamas/ Gurus and traditions- online and offline. I find it absurd for people who criticise another tradition and lineage, because:
a) it reflects badly on their own tradition, and I wonder how much do they really know about the other traditions since they have not spent much time studying them
b) there are other attained masters from other traditions and lineages, so it proves that those traditions /lineages are valid
c) why do people spent so much time criticising others when they can use their time to study and practice the Dharma instead?
I also think that culprits who fanned the flames (with accusations especially) are accountable to cause 'ignorant' people to take actions and harm the Sangha - discrimination, death threats, actual harm and so on.
Dear VajraP,
You're right that most people would not spill blood but happy to stir rumours and gossip to create schism in the Sangha.
I think it's a good test of self-awareness to see whether we ourselves ever criticise the Sangha. I've always thought that as a lay person, I have no right to criticise the Sangha because I don't have perfect view and would not know if what I perceived was right or wrong. Also I don't hold vows while the Sangha do - what right do I have to criticise them.
In the Dorje Shugden community, it is even more dangerous to spread rumours - if people do not take responsibility for their own speech or actions, they can directly cause schism or harm to the Sangha, by which time it'd be too late to regret.
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Thank you WB for sharing your view. I have met many who have the holier-than-thou approach if they are in the Buddhist circle for a while. I remember feeling intimidated (perhaps a more suitable word is dejected) with these type of "Buddhist practitioners" that are out there.
And "for your benefit" they will criticise this sangha, that sangha, compare Lamas (they ALREADY have their own Gurus, why do they need to compare?), compare centres, criticise lamas etc.
I would like to share something interesting I overheard from a senior practitioner, that there is no need to compare/ criticise lamas (either your own Guru or other Gurus) for those who already has a Guru. It's as if you are comparing your wives/ husbands with other people's wives/ husbands. If you have already chosen one, stick with it.
Ok back to the topic, I do hope they officially recognise Dagom Rinpoche's new incarnation soon. I am sure Rinpoche is back, but perhaps is being prepared for formal monastic education? Nowadays with the political climate, perhaps it's dangerous to recognise incarnation of lamas connected to Shugden.
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Thank you WB for sharing your view. I have met many who have the holier-than-thou approach if they are in the Buddhist circle for a while. I remember feeling intimidated (perhaps a more suitable word is dejected) with these type of "Buddhist practitioners" that are out there.
And "for your benefit" they will criticise this sangha, that sangha, compare Lamas (they ALREADY have their own Gurus, why do they need to compare?), compare centres, criticise lamas etc.
I would like to share something interesting I overheard from a senior practitioner, that there is no need to compare/ criticise lamas (either your own Guru or other Gurus) for those who already has a Guru. It's as if you are comparing your wives/ husbands with other people's wives/ husbands. If you have already chosen one, stick with it.
Ok back to the topic, I do hope they officially recognise Dagom Rinpoche's new incarnation soon. I am sure Rinpoche is back, but perhaps is being prepared for formal monastic education? Nowadays with the political climate, perhaps it's dangerous to recognise incarnation of lamas connected to Shugden.
Thanks for the husband/wife analogy.. nice one :)
I'm sure Dagom Rinpoche is being prepared for his future role now by his devoted students. While it is dangerous for lamas connected to Shugden, i admire them very much for they are willing to risk their lives for their practice.
I still go by my personal belief that we should not criticise any Lama, whether shugden practitioner or not, secret practitioner or not. People who can happily practice in the freedom of their countries cannot even imagine what it must be like to be under threat of their lives. Of course others may say that if these Lamas are attained beings, no one can harm them, but i believe that it is not whether they can be harmed but whether we create the causes for them to be harmed.
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(from HD)
I still go by my personal belief that we should not criticise any Lama, whether shugden practitioner or not, secret practitioner or not. People who can happily practice in the freedom of their countries cannot even imagine what it must be like to be under threat of their lives. Of course others may say that if these Lamas are attained beings, no one can harm them, but i believe that it is not whether they can be harmed but whether we create the causes for them to be harmed.
I believe that a Lama's actions are motivated by pure and sincere compassion and are aimed at helping their students to progress on the spiritual path,
by criticizing our own Lama, we undermine our progress,
by criticizing our own Lama or any other Lama, we compromise the devotion of his students and put them at risk of regression.
By logical thinking:
1. An enlightened being would not engage in actions that have for effect to take peple away from their spiritual path,this would be contradictory to their enlightened nature.
2. Hence, if someone's talk is taking people off their spiritual path (ex: by criticizig one's Lama with the consquece of Dharma regression), that talk couldn't possible be an enlightened speech.
3. Therefore, such talk is not reliable.
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Furthermore, what kind of karma are we inflicting to ourselves by criticizing high Lamas?
Not pretty, that is for sure...
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Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche is clearly a Tulku of the highest of spiritual attainments. So there are many emanations of his in all the '3000 worlds' or so out there. As far as I know, when a high-level Tulku passes on, he usually would take rebirth up to 5 main emanations. They namely body, speech, mind, qualities and activities. However, between the 5, the mind emanation is the main emanation that the disciples will be looking for. Therefore, I do hope that our merits is high enough for us to have the good fortune to have the actual mind emanation of Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche to be safely recognised, enthroned and the prayers of his previous lives come to fruition!
Big Uncle
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Dear all,
All your discussions and personal views have truly enriched me.
What a great way to start the day!
This Forum does not only feed the spirit, but also the mind. And that is the most important thing.
Dharma should improve us and make us better people. There should always be a real shift in the way we think and how we behave. We cannot possibly remain the same.
May we always have the good fortune to meet High Lamas and meet our teachers life after life.
May we never be spiritually orphaned or spiritually homeless.
Our spiritual path can only be expedited with a spiritual guide.
Thank you all for such wonderful sharing.
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Can you imagine the kind of karma involved...when people say someone can be a tenshe (destroyer of the Dharma), it literally is what's happening in this case! I feel sorry for those people who can kill for what they believe in, even more because it is borne out of wrong view...Buddha killed someone in a previous life, but his intention and view were perfect.
DharmaD,
Not only that, isn't harming a Lama one of the seven cardinal sins: shedding the Buddha's blood, murdering an arhat, killing one's father, killing one's mother, murdering a Dharma Teacher, murdering a Precept Master, or disrupting the harmony of the Sangha.
Whoever is guilty of the above goes straight to the lower realms.
Sometimes we think that we would never do any of the above but if whatever we say or do causes schism in the Sangha, or causes harm to the Sangha, we will reap terrible consequences.
Ever wonder why one of the 7 sins is "shedding the buddha's blood" and not "killing a Buddha"? Cos its not possible to kill a Buddha, they do not have the karma to be killed! So then how is it that Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche came to be murdered, many say poisoned? Along those lines, how is it that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was suffocated to death? Seeing them as Buddhas, and of course I see Lama Dagom Rinpoche as a perfect Buddha, i can only conclude that they allowed it to happen. Otherwise it would not be 'possible' in the conventional sense to kill them.
Song Rinpoche was sleeping with his back to the wall, close to a window. An assailant crept up to the window, stuck his arm through and was about to stab Song Dorjechang in the heart when he opened his eyes and grabbed the would be murderer's arm, preventing a huge disaster.
And I have heard this tale before although I cannot find the source right now: Dalai Lama was going to give a public teaching when he suddenly stopped stared at a man in the audience, repeatedly asking "Who are you?" "What do you want?" Security immediately stopped and searched the man, finding weapons on his person, intended to injure Dalai Lama.
In the water-mouse year, when the Chinese troops had already entered Tibet , the Tibetan Government decided to do some religious service for the peace and safety of the nation. With the instruction from His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Je Phaphongkha gave the transmission Kagyur in the Gaden Hall. Soon after that teaching, he was so seriously ill that he almost passed away. The sickness was due to certain poison. When he recovered, his whole body had become bluish.
Think about it.
Do they have clairvoyance? Yes
Do they have the karma to be killed? No
Do they have control over death and rebirth? Yes
Do we have the karma for them to remain? Depends....
Perhaps it was time for Dagom Rinpoche to leave. Perhaps it was more beneficial for him to have an early death, and for his reincarnation to come back sooner to reestablish himself again. His reincarnation is back (YES) and has been found (YES). Dagom Labrang in Kathmandu is staying low-key to avoid the gaze of TGIE and changzo-la is keeping things under tight wraps for now. But his return is yet another thorn up TGIE's **** - yet another Shugden lama reincarnating with control.
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Dear Duldzin,
You write the most riveting comments that truly challenge the mind to think more. Thank you so so much.
I especially identified with what you wrote here:-
Think about it.
Do they have clairvoyance? Yes
Do they have the karma to be killed? No
Do they have control over death and rebirth? Yes
Do we have the karma for them to remain? Depends....
Perhaps it was time for Dagom Rinpoche to leave. Perhaps it was more beneficial for him to have an early death, and for his reincarnation to come back sooner to reestablish himself again. His reincarnation is back (YES) and has been found (YES). Dagom Labrang in Kathmandu is staying low-key to avoid the gaze of TGIE and changzo-la is keeping things under tight wraps for now. But his return is yet another thorn up TGIE's **** - yet another Shugden lama reincarnating with control.
It truly got me thinking that nothing highly attained Lamas do are by accident or it is a coincident.
In this respect, nothing is also beyond their control.
They already know what is going to happen and have been planting the causes for certain things to take place in order to best benefit all sentient beings.
With this in mind, then what they choose to do is very intentional and planned. And their only motivation is to help and benefit others.
Sometimes, we just can't see and understand what they are doing because we can only relate to it from our worldly perspective and limited mindset.
It is indeed very encouraging to see that all of these high Lamas who practice Dorje Shugden are returning.
We are not all left alone and to fend for ourselves.
This gives me a lot of hope and joy.
Thank you.
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Ever wonder why one of the 7 sins is "shedding the buddha's blood" and not "killing a Buddha"? Cos its not possible to kill a Buddha, they do not have the karma to be killed! So then how is it that Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche came to be murdered, many say poisoned? Along those lines, how is it that Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen was suffocated to death? Seeing them as Buddhas, and of course I see Lama Dagom Rinpoche as a perfect Buddha, i can only conclude that they allowed it to happen. Otherwise it would not be 'possible' in the conventional sense to kill them.
Song Rinpoche was sleeping with his back to the wall, close to a window. An assailant crept up to the window, stuck his arm through and was about to stab Song Dorjechang in the heart when he opened his eyes and grabbed the would be murderer's arm, preventing a huge disaster.
And I have heard this tale before although I cannot find the source right now: Dalai Lama was going to give a public teaching when he suddenly stopped stared at a man in the audience, repeatedly asking "Who are you?" "What do you want?" Security immediately stopped and searched the man, finding weapons on his person, intended to injure Dalai Lama.
In the water-mouse year, when the Chinese troops had already entered Tibet , the Tibetan Government decided to do some religious service for the peace and safety of the nation. With the instruction from His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Je Phaphongkha gave the transmission Kagyur in the Gaden Hall. Soon after that teaching, he was so seriously ill that he almost passed away. The sickness was due to certain poison. When he recovered, his whole body had become bluish.
Think about it.
Do they have clairvoyance? Yes
Do they have the karma to be killed? No
Do they have control over death and rebirth? Yes
Do we have the karma for them to remain? Depends....
Perhaps it was time for Dagom Rinpoche to leave. Perhaps it was more beneficial for him to have an early death, and for his reincarnation to come back sooner to reestablish himself again. His reincarnation is back (YES) and has been found (YES). Dagom Labrang in Kathmandu is staying low-key to avoid the gaze of TGIE and changzo-la is keeping things under tight wraps for now. But his return is yet another thorn up TGIE's **** - yet another Shugden lama reincarnating with control.
In Tulku Drakpa Gyaltsen's case, he definitely allowed it to happen - he even gave his assassins the method to kill him! He literally gave his life for the dharma...how many of us could say we would willingly allow someone else to kill us, for the sake of fulfilling a promise?
In support of your comment on Dagom Rinpoche, I read somewhere - the source escapes me - that Dagom Rinpoche chose to enter clear light now so that when the ban is over, he will be in a position to spread the Dharma again in a big way, meaning he will be old and learned enough. By that time, all of the old hawks of the TGIE will be too old to do anything! I don't know why they fight and fight to hold on to their power...death is the greatest equaliser.
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Why?
Why?
Why?
Even 'IF' I was to 'appear' to disagree with a Spiritual Teacher, why would I hurt, harm and destroy?
How could that be in line with ANY spiritual practice? It can't, I don't see how it could...
It even turns my stomach to speak of it.
The fact is: a genuine spiritual teacher talks of compassion and wisdom.
This is a common thread amongst all religions, let alone amongst buddhists of the different schools, let alone of the same school!
SO WHERE IS THE CONFLICT??? DUUHHH!!!
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Why?
Why?
Why?
Even 'IF' I was to 'appear' to disagree with a Spiritual Teacher, why would I hurt, harm and destroy?
How could that be in line with ANY spiritual practice? It can't, I don't see how it could...
It even turns my stomach to speak of it.
The fact is: a genuine spiritual teacher talks of compassion and wisdom.
This is a common thread amongst all religions, let alone amongst buddhists of the different schools, let alone of the same school!
SO WHERE IS THE CONFLICT??? DUUHHH!!!
Dear Hope,
I fully agree with you. Why would anyone want to harm a spiritual teacher? The karma is so incredibly heavy and most Buddhists should know that. I really don't get it that some 'practitioners' will kick the spiritual teacher off the throne and put their egos on the throne instead.
We should all remind ourselves by reading:
1. the Nine attitudes of Guru Devotion (http://www.tonglen.oceandrop.org/9_Attitudes_Guru_Devotion.htm (http://www.tonglen.oceandrop.org/9_Attitudes_Guru_Devotion.htm))
2. The 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion http://www.bodhicitta.net/FIFTY%20STANZAS%20OF%20GURU%20DEVOTION.htm (http://www.bodhicitta.net/FIFTY%20STANZAS%20OF%20GURU%20DEVOTION.htm)
Even if someone is not our personal Guru but he or she is a spiritual teacher, we should respect them as they are members of the Sangha. How can we take refuge in the Three Jewels then be nasty to Sangha? It doesn't make sense.
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HD,
I'd like to add this:
the way we treat our guru (that is with devotion, selflessly -without worldly concerns) is a training for us -iceberg of selfishness- to behave in ways that benefit otehrs, that is, to be precise, we learn with our guru how to treat ALL BEINGS LIKE WE TREAT OUR GURU.
Hence, being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
We should think about that!
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i read that we first learn to treat our Guru with utmost respect and gratitude. Once we can do that well and automatically, we then learn to treat our Guru's attendants and students with the same respect, and then it spreads to more and more people. If we cannot even behave ourselves well in front of our Guru (i.e. according to the 50 stanzas of Guru Devotion), how will we even hope to act well in front of others? The 50 Stanzas are a simple practice of awareness of our body, speech and mind.
Re what Hope R said :
being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
I think that if we have a negative attitude to others' Gurus, it reflects badly on our own Guru, which will turn people away from our guru. Potential students will think - I don't think this Guru is so great - look at his students!
In that way, we bring down our Guru as well as potentially turning students away from the Dharma. They may think, i don't want to be a Buddhist - look at those Buddhists! They are saying such bad things about that teacher!
I've not read anywhere that says it's a good thing to say negative things about any Dharma teacher. Have you?
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I had a very good fortune to receive a special explanation from my kind teacher yesterday. It was about this guru tree: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/gurutree.htm
I did not know this but I learnt that it was created based upon the teachings that Dagom Rinpoche (previous incarnation) gave about our lineage, and he added dorje shugden into the guru tree. HOW FORTUNATE WE ARE TO SEE THIS.
When I checked back on the photo today, I also remembered there is very nice explanation to accompany the picture also, based on teachings from Dagom Rinpoche.
Now, can we be worthy reflections of this entire tree and every being on it?
thank you, yours, beggar
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Beggar - thanks for the link to the 'updated' Guru Tree. I was wondering that when the practice was accepted by the 5th Dalai Lama, did they not included Dorje Shugden on the Guru tree then? Or was it only when Dagom Rinpoche updated this Guru tree? Do you know when this thangka was made - before or during the ban by HH Dalai Lama? It's very exciting to see it. I'm asking because I'm curious if this version of the Guru Tree (i love it!) was openly accepted at any time.
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Hey thanks beggar for this nice morsel of enlightened sharing!
Is it the case that Dorje Shugden was "added" into the thangka after Dagom Rinpoche's teachings? Or more that he was actually taken out recently, following all the politics and stuff? I should imagine that it would be more common to find, historically, more Guru trees WITH dorje shugden since he was so central to the lineage
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I am deeply indebted to Masters like Dagom Rinpoche who stood up and corrected the Guru Tree to reflect the truth. Without High Lamas like Dagom Rinpoche constantly correcting the depiction of Dharma, we will never know the true lineage and history. We will not know how we came to be. From the 5 lineages of Gelugpa to Lord Tsongkhapa, to everything that is within the Guru Tree and the significance of those outside of the Guru Tree. Finally, to where we are at this point in time, as depicted at the lower right hand corner - receiving teachings from our own Gurus and Lamas.
Everything in the thangka has so much meaning. I did not quite appreciate it until recently. In fact, one needs to only look at this Guru Tree and we will learn a great deal.
Without method/practice there can be no attainments as depicted in the left hand with Maitreya in the middle.
Without Wisdom, all methods/practice could be wrong and mis-guided, as depicted in the right hand with Manjushri in the middle.
Method and Wisdom go hand in hand.
Without the Lineage Masters, nothing can be propagated and passed on - the lineage and teachings will cease to exist.
Withiout the Yidams and Dharma Protectors, how will we get help to stay on the path and be on the express route to Enligthenment.
Anything outside the Guru Tree are Deities and Spirits which are not enlightened. Hence, we should not be worshipping any of them.
Everything comes from a source and that source is traceable and authentic.
This is why the existence of Dorje Shugden in this Guru Tree is extremely important.
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I had a very good fortune to receive a special explanation from my kind teacher yesterday. It was about this guru tree: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/gurutree.htm[/url]
I did not know this but I learnt that it was created based upon the teachings that Dagom Rinpoche (previous incarnation) gave about our lineage, and he added dorje shugden into the guru tree. HOW FORTUNATE WE ARE TO SEE THIS.
When I checked back on the photo today, I also remembered there is very nice explanation to accompany the picture also, based on teachings from Dagom Rinpoche.
Now, can we be worthy reflections of this entire tree and every being on it?
thank you, yours, beggar
You are very fortunate to receive such teachings, and from a qualified master as seems to be the case!
This is the renaissance of buddhisme in action.
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HD,
I'd like to add this:
the way we treat our guru (that is with devotion, selflessly -without worldly concerns) is a training for us -iceberg of selfishness- to behave in ways that benefit otehrs, that is, to be precise, we learn with our guru how to treat ALL BEINGS LIKE WE TREAT OUR GURU.
Hence, being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
We should think about that!
Which lama teaches his or her students to critisize? I have not come across any! May we out of devotion to our own teacher, conduct ourselves worthy of our teachers
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As I research more on the high lamas that are supporters of Dorje Shugden or that used to practice Dorje Shugden openly, I notice that there is a pattern of EXCELLENCE in all their actions.
Excellence in their teachings and in their compassion.
Here is another example with Dagom Rinpoche, a stable practitioner of Dorje Shugden, and who's life is clearly led with bodhicitta.
I read on Wikipedia that he passed into paranirvana in 2007.
Yet, does anyone here knows if a re-incarnation has been found and confirmed?
Hi Hope Rainbow,
To answer your original question, there was a thread in 2009 that mentioned Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has taken rebirth in Mongolia as predicted by the oracle. For sure Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has been found and confirmed, but like all other Shugden lamas, I think perhaps it's still not a suitable time to reveal their whereabouts in case of death threats and all. Also, it's still a long time to go before Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche can start teaching again as Rinpoche is still very young.
Link: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=424.0
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Hi Hope Rainbow,
To answer your original question, there was a thread in 2009 that mentioned Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has taken rebirth in Mongolia as predicted by the oracle. For sure Kyabje Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche has been found and confirmed, but like all other Shugden lamas, I think perhaps it's still not a suitable time to reveal their whereabouts in case of death threats and all. Also, it's still a long time to go before Dagom Choktrul Rinpoche can start teaching again as Rinpoche is still very young.
Link: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=424.0[/url]
Sad to say, the death threats are very real. I have heard from authentic sources - people who have directly experienced it - that there have been attempts on Shugden Lama's lives. While some might argue that surely since they are highly attained, that they cannot be harmed. I do believe that is true with the exception to the rule being that should their samaya with their students be broken, that would create the causes for them to be 'harmed'. If that happens, these lamas may choose to pass into clear light in order to manifest in another incarnation in another location where he/she would be able to be more beneficial.
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HD,
I'd like to add this:
the way we treat our guru (that is with devotion, selflessly -without worldly concerns) is a training for us -iceberg of selfishness- to behave in ways that benefit otehrs, that is, to be precise, we learn with our guru how to treat ALL BEINGS LIKE WE TREAT OUR GURU.
Hence, being devoted to our guru and bashing someone else's guru (or any living being for that matter) is equal to bashing our own guru...
We should think about that!
If people see their gurus as one in nature with Buddha, then for sure people will refrain from talking bad about other gurus. It is said that a guru is even kinder that the Buddhas for the obvious reasons that the guru is the one who puts up with us, scold, advice, give gifts and teachings etc,.If we view our guru in this manner, then other gurus/lamas who turn the wheel of dharma is just as kind. If this is the case, then what rights do we have to talk bad about any gurus.
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Sad to say, the death threats are very real. I have heard from authentic sources - people who have directly experienced it - that there have been attempts on Shugden Lama's lives. While some might argue that surely since they are highly attained, that they cannot be harmed. I do believe that is true with the exception to the rule being that should their samaya with their students be broken, that would create the causes for them to be 'harmed'. If that happens, these lamas may choose to pass into clear light in order to manifest in another incarnation in another location where he/she would be able to be more beneficial.
Yes, High Lama definitely can control their death and rebirth. Look at the news on the new incarnation of Dagom Rinpoche, Denma Gonsar Rinpoche & Kensur Lobsang Tharchin. In whatever method the high lama uses is always to benefit others more and the timing is also important for the spread of Dharma. And some lama will use their body ie death, sickness & etc to give teaching to their students.
I'm not surprise about the death threats. It has been reported from a few reliable sources that with DS High Lama, the TGIE government always send spies to report the movement of their Ladrang in Nepal and India. For example whenever Gangchen Rinpoche visits Nepal, there will always be TGIE spies outside his Ladrang. Therefore, the security is extremely tight when Gangchen Rinpoche is in Nepal. The same with the movement of Pabongka Rinpoche & all the rest of the DS Lama.
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Here is a video on the stupa of kyabjye Dagom Rinpoche
Presentation of the Stupa of Venerable Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYFtUu2Oqqs
I am not exactly clear about why the video was made and the point of it, just to share and it seems his stupa is somewhere in Bangkok.
Anyways has anyone ever wondered why Kyabjye Dagom Rinpoche picked Bangkok as the place he passed into parinirvana? Will he be coming to spread Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition in Thailand later in his new incarnation. I can believe that he was poisoned, but I will never believe he had no control or did not know what was going on that resulted i him passing away in Bangkok.
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His Eminence Dagom Rinpoche's stupa is at Wat Thakham Bangpakong in the outskirts of Bangkok. There are two other stupas of Dagom Rinpoche - one in his Ladrang in Kathmandu and another one in Tibet. I have heard that Dagom Rinpoche has friends and associates in Bangkok, which could be why he stopped over in Thailand on his way from Nepal to Switzerland.
Mountains has previously written about the passing of Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche here: http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=427.0
I have attached some photos of the stupa in Bangkok, as well as the Tibetan and Thai monks both doing the puja during the consecration of the relic stupa. You will also see Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche's changtso Geshe Jangsem making offerings to the holy stupa. Enjoy the pics
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I'm sure Dagom Rinpoche has reason to enter clear light in Bangkok.
It is just like how the places Buddha was born (Lumbini), enlightenment (Bodhgaya), where he gave his first teaching(Sarnath), where he died(Kusinara) are important places for every Buddhist to visit as these places has some special power. I remember a lama gave a teaching before that these places if we visit and make lots of offerings, it can prolong one's life.
Dagom Rinpoche is definitely not ordinary, I heard from many reliable sources before that even when DS takes trance in an oracle, DS will always pay respect to Dagom Rinpoche first.
I am looking forward to hear more news on the new incarnation.