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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: thaimonk on February 10, 2019, 07:59:52 AM
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Karmapa Thaye Dorje Ignores the Dalai Lama
(1) Decades ago, the Shamarpa asked the Dalai Lama to endorse Thaye Dorje as the Karmapa. Shamarpa proved to the Dalai Lama that Thaye Dorje was the Karmapa. The Dalai Lama still refused as it will make the Dalai Lama look bad for endorsing Ogyen Trinley. ~ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJJXYAz3Bz0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJJXYAz3Bz0)
It is known that Tai Situ Rinpoche recognized Ogyen Trinley by stealth. Tai Situ Rinpoche used the Dalai Lama's fame to promote his Ogyen Trinley candidate in order to secure the Karmapa wealth of many generations.
(2) Even though the Dalai Lama endorsed Ogyen Trinley as Karmapa, Thaye Dorje could not be restrained and continues to grow immensely in popularity all over the world. Even without the Dalai Lama's endorsement, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is growing in importance. Tai Situ Rinpoche thought that without the Dalai Lama's endorsement, the Karmapa Thaye Dorje would fall and become nothing. He was wrong.
(3) Shamarpa Rinpoche had asked the Dalai Lama to at least ordain Thaye Dorje as a monk when he was very young and the Dalai Lama refused. This refusal hurt Shamarpa and the Karmapa Thaye Dorje very much. The Dalai Lama sidelined Shamarpa Rinpoche and Thaye Dorje. It was a grievous insult and detrimental interference. In the Karma Kagyu tradition it is the Shamarpa who is the first and foremost to recognize the Karmapas and only in his absence do other regents recognize the Karmapas. Not only did the Dalai Lama interfere in Karma Kagyu affairs but the Dalai Lama took sides. That caused so much fighting and disharmony within the Karma Kagyu school of Buddhism. Tai Situ Rinpoche was wrong not to consult with Shamarpa Rinpoche in all of this.
(4) The Dalai Lama had no business interfering in Karma Kagyu traditions by recognizing a Karmapa. In the history of the Karma Kagyu school, there has not been one Karmapa recognized by a Dalai Lama nor did they ever need the Dalai Lama's endorsement. This interference by the Dalai Lama has caused the Karma Kagyu school to take two sides and broke them up and created much disharmony. The disharmony, fighting and mud-slinging as to which one is the real Karmapa has continued to this day in 2019.
(5) Shamarpa Rinpoche passed away in 2014 and it is up to the Karmapa to recognize his incarnation without the endorsement or interference of the Dalai Lama.
(6) Now the Karmapa Thaye Dorje recognizes his son born in 2018 as Shamarpa Rinpoche's incarnation and he does not ask the Dalai Lama to endorse this incarnation. He does not need it. The Dalai Lama has done enough damage. This will shift the dynamics of the Karma Kagyu school again in favor of the Shamarpa Rinpoche's side. Unfortunately, it will make Ogyen Trinley look strange and left out in the cold. Within the Kagyu school, the Shamarpa is the next highest incarnation after the Karmapa. The Karmapas always recognized Shamarpas and vice versa. It shows that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje has the full authority to recognize the next highest incarnation within their school on his own. This Shamarpa will be spiritually trained by the Karmapa Thaye Dorje himself without the influence of the aged Dalai Lama and his government-in-exile which most Karma Kagyus consider a regime.
(7) During the Kagyu Monlam prayers in Bodhgaya on January 2019, Thaye Dorje was there leading the Monlam (New Year's prayers) and so was the Dalai Lama in Bodhgaya, giving teachings in another location nearby. The Dalai Lama, while in Bodhgaya, wanted to meet Thaye Dorje but Thaye Dorje refused. Thaye Dorje avoided the Dalai Lama. It was an insult to the Dalai Lama that he had to accept for all the damage he had done in their Karmapa affair and Karma Kagyu school.
The Dalai Lama had sidelined Shamarpa and Thaye Dorje when asked to endorse Thaye Dorje decades ago. Now that the Karmapa Ogyen Trinley has run away to the USA, the Dalai Lama wants to be friendly with Thaye Dorje so that he can get on the Karma Kagyu school's good side. Without the Dalai Lama's permission, the two Karmapas met in France and decided to mend the rift. This will make the Dalai Lama look bad. Even the Dalai Lama did not think in such a big way or a middle way to help mend the rift. Too bad and too late for the Dalai Lama to make friends with the Karma Kagyu school of Buddhism.
So much damage has been done. But the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is on the way to mending all this.
Karma Tsogyal
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Thank you for sharing this information and I am not surprised that Karmapa Thaye Dorje would ignore the Dalai Lama. After all, when they had given the Dalai Lama such respect when requesting for recognition of Karmapa Thaye Dorje by the Sharmapa when it is entirely not necessary as the Sharmapa has the absolute authority over Karma Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism in lieu of Karmapa. It is the Sharmapa's right to recognize the reincarnation of the Karmapa. So it is very rude of the Dalai Lama to even refuse the courtesy to ordain the Karmapa as a monk and that is such a slap in the face. Despite all these, Karmapa grew in fame and his enlightened activities spread which proves his attainments to everyone. And now the Sharmapa is back in the folds with the Karmapa as his father. No interferences from out of their school. Really wonderful to know all are falling into place and Karma Kagyu is growing from strength to strength. The Dalai Lama is not needed nor his endorsement necessary.
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At the first place, Dalai Lama has no right to interfere with Karma Kagyu internal affair at all. It's because of Dalai Lama's interference, Karma Kagyu has to face the two Karmapa issue. Of course Karmapa Thaye Dorje and Sharmapa Rinpoche knew that very well. I am not surprise at all they ignores the Dalai Lama. In fact, I am happy to see that. It shows to the Tibetan world that they should fight for whatever is right, and don't have to blindly follow the dictatorship of the current Tibeten government. Now is 21st century. Everyone can easily access to internet and whatever information they want. No one is going to believe in old feudalism anymore.
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It is such good news that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje’s son has been recognised as the Sharmapa. Rejoice!
It is understandable that Thaye Dorje did not want to meet with the CTA resp. the Dalai Lama. The CTA's reputation with all the scandals and misconduct is now known for its corruption, incompetence, sex scandals, infighting, interference in the internal affairs of Tibetan Buddhist schools and distortions of key tenets of Buddhism, is so embarrassing.
The bad behaviour of the CTA is known all over the world.
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Thank you for sharing this information and I am not surprised that Karmapa Thaye Dorje would ignore the Dalai Lama. After all, when they had given the Dalai Lama such respect when requesting for recognition of Karmapa Thaye Dorje by the Sharmapa when it is entirely not necessary as the Sharmapa has the absolute authority over Karma Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism in lieu of Karmapa. It is the Sharmapa's right to recognize the reincarnation of the Karmapa. So it is very rude of the Dalai Lama to even refuse the courtesy to ordain the Karmapa as a monk and that is such a slap in the face. Despite all these, Karmapa grew in fame and his enlightened activities spread which proves his attainments to everyone. And now the Sharmapa is back in the folds with the Karmapa as his father. No interferences from out of their school. Really wonderful to know all are falling into place and Karma Kagyu is growing from strength to strength. The Dalai Lama is not needed nor his endorsement necessary.
More than just a slap in the face, it shows the Dalai Lama to be flippant and having no qualms going back on his word. The Shamarpa showed tremendous grace in this entire Karmapa debacle and had the Dalai Lama proceeded to give Thaye Dorje semi-monk vows it would at least make up for his hand in the disaster.
In a way it is a good outcome because it meant that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no spiritual bond with the Dalai Lama and is today free of all such encumbrance. I am sure the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is glad just by looking at the bind Ogyen Trinley is by his association with the Dalai Lama clique.
Incidentally, I have not heard a whimper from Tai Situpa over this ordeal. Is he still around or has he gone to ground because of some other shenanigan?
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If you want to lose your reputation, money and credibility, then go and make friend with the CTA. Whoever is associated with the CTA will only bring bad luck to themselves because everything the CTA does is bad. They have not done any good thing in the past 60 years.
Countries who used to be the CTA's friends like Nepal, Italy, Switzerland have decided to be friendly with China all because China can help them grow the economy in their country. By associating with the CTA, many opportunities are lost. There is no advantage to be associated with the CTA at all!
The Karmapa Thaye Dorje definitely doesn't need an endorsement from the Dalai Lama, they are of different lineages. As the CTA's influence is getting weaker and they have less support from people, the Karmapa doesn't see the need to pay respect to the CTA. To begin with, the CTA was arrogant to him in the first place. Perhaps in future, we will see more and more people going against the useless CTA. It is time they pack their bag and go home!
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Thank you for sharing this information and I am not surprised that Karmapa Thaye Dorje would ignore the Dalai Lama. After all, when they had given the Dalai Lama such respect when requesting for recognition of Karmapa Thaye Dorje by the Sharmapa when it is entirely not necessary as the Sharmapa has the absolute authority over Karma Kagyu school of Tibetan Buddhism in lieu of Karmapa. It is the Sharmapa's right to recognize the reincarnation of the Karmapa. So it is very rude of the Dalai Lama to even refuse the courtesy to ordain the Karmapa as a monk and that is such a slap in the face. Despite all these, Karmapa grew in fame and his enlightened activities spread which proves his attainments to everyone. And now the Sharmapa is back in the folds with the Karmapa as his father. No interferences from out of their school. Really wonderful to know all are falling into place and Karma Kagyu is growing from strength to strength. The Dalai Lama is not needed nor his endorsement necessary.
More than just a slap in the face, it shows the Dalai Lama to be flippant and having no qualms going back on his word. The Shamarpa showed tremendous grace in this entire Karmapa debacle and had the Dalai Lama proceeded to give Thaye Dorje semi-monk vows it would at least make up for his hand in the disaster.
In a way it is a good outcome because it meant that the Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no spiritual bond with the Dalai Lama and is today free of all such encumbrance. I am sure the Karmapa Thaye Dorje is glad just by looking at the bind Ogyen Trinley is by his association with the Dalai Lama clique.
Incidentally, I have not heard a whimper from Tai Situpa over this ordeal. Is he still around or has he gone to ground because of some other shenanigan?
Lols, I would say that Tai Situpa would have gone to ground, if he were smart. I don't think it would be presumptuous to say he may have received a huge endorsement for putting Karmapa Ogyen Trinley into the Tibetan Leaders hands. Probably made lots of enemies in splitting his own sect. with the two Karmapas and now the debacle with Karmapa Ogyen Trinley, the Tibetan Leaders may look to him for answers. After these leaders are famous for blaming others for their mistakes, aren't they? Look how they shoddily treated so many high attained Lamas just for a legitimate and authentic practice of Dorje Shugden. Even the Gurus of the Dalai Lama are not spared and just to cover up failed promises by the Tibetan Leaders to their people. So ungrateful! Especially when it was Dorje Shugden who had saved the Dalai Lama's life. Guess karma really did come full force for disparaging so many attained beings in this ban. Any notable leaders of the society do you see? Even the Anti-Shugden monasteries are in the decline when once they stood proud of being pure lineage holders of Buddha's teachings before the discrimination and segregation brought on by the ban. Maybe Lobsang Sangay runs a professional school of beggars???
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Who to blame? Karmapa Thaye Dorje is smart to not get himself to be associated with people like Tibetan leadership because they can only bring troubles and more troubles. Why would the Tibetan leadership want to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje anyways?
They are the one who does not agree for him to be the Karmapa and they installed their own Karmapa instead. By doing that, they are telling the world that they do not agree with him being the Karmapa and he is the fake one. Now suddenly the CTA wants to get close to him and even tried to "bum" into him with media at the Kagyu Monlam that he precedes.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje is known exactly what they want to do and that is why he is missing from the festival that day. He is smart to keep his distance especially now that his son is believed to be the Sharmapa. The events had an interesting turn and now we shall see that is the Tibetan leadership's next move.
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Who to blame? Karmapa Thaye Dorje is smart to not get himself to be associated with people like Tibetan leadership because they can only bring troubles and more troubles. Why would the Tibetan leadership want to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje anyways?
They are the one who does not agree for him to be the Karmapa and they installed their own Karmapa instead. By doing that, they are telling the world that they do not agree with him being the Karmapa and he is the fake one. Now suddenly the CTA wants to get close to him and even tried to "bum" into him with media at the Kagyu Monlam that he precedes.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje is known exactly what they want to do and that is why he is missing from the festival that day. He is smart to keep his distance especially now that his son is believed to be the Sharmapa. The events had an interesting turn and now we shall see that is the Tibetan leadership's next move.
Yes, it is interesting isn't it. How the Karmapa Thaye Dorje just was not there when the Dalai Lama wishes to "accidentally bump" into him. Of course the "accidentally" is debatable as the Dalai Lama actually had film crews on standby to film the event. Wonder if the Dalai Lama wanted to speak to Karmapa Thaye Dorje about being his successor? After all, the other ran away and there are no suitable candidates the Anti-Shugden monasteries to carry out his job of controlling CTA and Lobsang Sangay. Oh, of course, the Karmapa is rich I heard. It does help to grease the CTA into good behavior? Lol!
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Who to blame? Karmapa Thaye Dorje is smart to not get himself to be associated with people like Tibetan leadership because they can only bring troubles and more troubles. Why would the Tibetan leadership want to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje anyways?
They are the one who does not agree for him to be the Karmapa and they installed their own Karmapa instead. By doing that, they are telling the world that they do not agree with him being the Karmapa and he is the fake one. Now suddenly the CTA wants to get close to him and even tried to "bum" into him with media at the Kagyu Monlam that he precedes.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje is known exactly what they want to do and that is why he is missing from the festival that day. He is smart to keep his distance especially now that his son is believed to be the Sharmapa. The events had an interesting turn and now we shall see that is the Tibetan leadership's next move.
Yes, it is interesting isn't it. How the Karmapa Thaye Dorje just was not there when the Dalai Lama wishes to "accidentally bump" into him. Of course the "accidentally" is debatable as the Dalai Lama actually had film crews on standby to film the event. Wonder if the Dalai Lama wanted to speak to Karmapa Thaye Dorje about being his successor? After all, the other ran away and there are no suitable candidates the Anti-Shugden monasteries to carry out his job of controlling CTA and Lobsang Sangay. Oh, of course, the Karmapa is rich I heard. It does help to grease the CTA into good behavior? Lol!
Now we know that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is clairvoyant and he knows what is the CTA is up to. He is very clever to have avoid the Tibetan leadership because anything that associated with the Tibetan leadership will never be good and always be problematic.
?It is quite obvious that the Tibetan leadership is trying to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be His Holiness successor. He is a very powerful high lama which makes him very suitable in replacing His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
s
The Tibetan leadership tried to groom Karmapa Ogyen Trisley to be the successor but they failed miserably and Karmapa Ogyen Trinley fled India and gotten himself a new passport while he is well.
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Who to blame? Karmapa Thaye Dorje is smart to not get himself to be associated with people like Tibetan leadership because they can only bring troubles and more troubles. Why would the Tibetan leadership want to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje anyways?
They are the one who does not agree for him to be the Karmapa and they installed their own Karmapa instead. By doing that, they are telling the world that they do not agree with him being the Karmapa and he is the fake one. Now suddenly the CTA wants to get close to him and even tried to "bum" into him with media at the Kagyu Monlam that he precedes.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje is known exactly what they want to do and that is why he is missing from the festival that day. He is smart to keep his distance especially now that his son is believed to be the Sharmapa. The events had an interesting turn and now we shall see that is the Tibetan leadership's next move.
Yes, it is interesting isn't it. How the Karmapa Thaye Dorje just was not there when the Dalai Lama wishes to "accidentally bump" into him. Of course the "accidentally" is debatable as the Dalai Lama actually had film crews on standby to film the event. Wonder if the Dalai Lama wanted to speak to Karmapa Thaye Dorje about being his successor? After all, the other ran away and there are no suitable candidates the Anti-Shugden monasteries to carry out his job of controlling CTA and Lobsang Sangay. Oh, of course, the Karmapa is rich I heard. It does help to grease the CTA into good behavior? Lol!
Who to blame? Karmapa Thaye Dorje is smart to not get himself to be associated with people like Tibetan leadership because they can only bring troubles and more troubles. Why would the Tibetan leadership want to get close to Karmapa Thaye Dorje anyways?
They are the one who does not agree for him to be the Karmapa and they installed their own Karmapa instead. By doing that, they are telling the world that they do not agree with him being the Karmapa and he is the fake one. Now suddenly the CTA wants to get close to him and even tried to "bum" into him with media at the Kagyu Monlam that he precedes.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje is known exactly what they want to do and that is why he is missing from the festival that day. He is smart to keep his distance especially now that his son is believed to be the Sharmapa. The events had an interesting turn and now we shall see that is the Tibetan leadership's next move.
Yes, it is interesting isn't it. How the Karmapa Thaye Dorje just was not there when the Dalai Lama wishes to "accidentally bump" into him. Of course the "accidentally" is debatable as the Dalai Lama actually had film crews on standby to film the event. Wonder if the Dalai Lama wanted to speak to Karmapa Thaye Dorje about being his successor? After all, the other ran away and there are no suitable candidates the Anti-Shugden monasteries to carry out his job of controlling CTA and Lobsang Sangay. Oh, of course, the Karmapa is rich I heard. It does help to grease the CTA into good behavior? Lol!
Now we know that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is clairvoyant and he knows what is the CTA is up to. He is very clever to have avoided the Tibetan leadership because anything that associated with the Tibetan leadership will never be good and always be problematic.
?It is quite obvious that the Tibetan leadership is trying to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be His Holiness successor. He is a very powerful high lama which makes him very suitable in replacing His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
s
The Tibetan leadership tried to groom Karmapa Ogyen Trisley to be the successor but they failed miserably and Karmapa Ogyen Trinley fled India and gotten himself a new passport while he is well.
Now we know that Karmapa Thaye Dorje is clairvoyant and he knows what is the CTA is up to. He is very clever to have avoid the Tibetan leadership because anything that associated with the Tibetan leadership will never be good and always be problematic. Look at their Tibetans in exile, are they going a good job in leading them?
?It is quite obvious that the Tibetan leadership is trying to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be His Holiness successor. He is a very powerful high lama which makes him very suitable in repalcing His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Not to mention that he already has a high number of followers and many Dharma center under his supervision.
The Tibetan leadership tried to groom Karmapa Ogyen Trisley to be the successor but they failed miserably. He fled India and gotten himself a new passport while he expressed his depression online for everyone to see. He complained about the Tibetan leadership and how is not conducive for him to do carry out his duties as a Karmapa.
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At the first place, Dalai Lama has no right to interfere with Karma Kagyu internal affair at all. It's because of Dalai Lama's interference, Karma Kagyu has to face the two Karmapa issue. Of course Karmapa Thaye Dorje and Sharmapa Rinpoche knew that very well. I am not surprise at all they ignores the Dalai Lama. In fact, I am happy to see that. It shows to the Tibetan world that they should fight for whatever is right, and don't have to blindly follow the dictatorship of the current Tibeten government. Now is 21st century. Everyone can easily access to internet and whatever information they want. No one is going to believe in old feudalism anymore.
You are right to say that. In the first place, the Dalai Lama does not have the right to interfere with the recognition of reincarnated lama of another lineage. Each tradition has its own system to recognise their reincarnated lama, they don't interfere with each other. Thus, the only reason the Dalai Lama and the CTA wanted to recognise or give the endorsement to the so-called real Karmpa was with political agenda. They wanted to make the Karmapa the successor of the Dalai Lama.
Historically, Tibetans have always been ruled by a spiritual figure who is the Dalai Lama. The person who can command the people are not the officials of the government but the Dalai Lama. Even though the 14th Dalai Lama wants to change the situation by stepping down as a political head, the Tibetans still listen to the Dalai Lama more than the CTA.
The Dalai Lama and the CTA know that they have to somehow find another spiritual leader to pick up the baton and the next best candidate is the Karmapa. Unfortunately, the Karmapa they have chosen has run away. The other Karmapa is not interested in getting involved either. The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no reason to get into the good book of the CTA or Dalai Lama because he is doing so well without them. Therefore, I am also not surprised the Karmapa Thaye Dorje just totally ignores the Dalai Lama.
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Karmapa Thaye Dorje and his son Sharmapa Rinpoche has every right to ignore His Holiness the Dalai Lama. They are from an entirely different sect and His Holiness the Dalai Lama has no jurisdiction or authority in the Karma Kagyu sect. Contrary to what the public believes, His Holiness the Dalai Lama is not the leader of Tibetan Buddhism and he is not even the leader of Gelug sect which he belongs to.
He commands the respect of all the sects because he is bringing Tibetan Buddhism to the entire world and he is working tirelessly for the spread of Buddhism. On another note, he is the most famous lama in the entire world and being associated with him will bring benefit for oneself and also the monastery or Dharma center. That is why many seek for His Holiness's approval or to be associated with him.
However, Karmapa Thaye Dorje made the right choice for not associated with His Holiness because His Holiness is associated with the Tibetan government which is proven to be bad news. They are better off without the influence of the Tibetan government to maintain the purity of their lineage and not to mentioned that there will be fewer problems.
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The fact that the Dalai Lama is ignored clearly shows that the Tibetans are losing confident and their respect to the Dalai Lama and the CTA. For the past few years, the Dalai Lamas has shown many mistakes especially making offensive comments. Many international people have lost their respect for the Dalai Lama as well.
The Karmapa Thaye Dorje doesn't really need the Dalai Lama's endorsement to confirm his status. He was recognised by his own lineage according to its tradition and this is enough. No lamas of other lineages have any significance in the recognition of Karma Kagyu Tulku.
The CTA and the Dalai Lama should be alarmed by now. The Karma Kagyu lamas are going against them, it is just a matter of time lamas of other lineages will do the same. If they don't change the way they deal with the Tibetans or do something beneficial to the Tibetans, they will go down very fast. Soon, they will lose support from all Tibetans and they will have to dissolve. This will be good news to Dorje Shugden followers as well, it means the ban is no longer valid.
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Karmapa Thaye Dorje is showing that he is not afraid of the Dalai Lama. He will do fine without the Dalai Lama's so-called support/friendship/acknowledgement. He is his own boss and he can stand on his own two feet. So basically he's saying to Dalai Lama, he does not need him and does not like him either. Daring and powerful! Inspiring! This is because the Dalai Lama has created so much rift and problems for the Karma Kagyu people that up until today, they have not united back.
It seems like all that the Dalai Lama does is create havoc, division, disunity amongst people. It is hard to comprehend why and what is the bigger picture in all this? Now the Sharmapa is back... looks like the Sharmapa is going to give the Dalai Lama a headache because of what the Dalai Lama did is unethical. By right he has no right to poke his nose on the Karma Kagyus business. He had no business doing that at all.
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It is good for them to ignore the Dalai Lama because anyone that actually comes in contact with Tibetan leadership will not end up in a good situation. There are many examples that can be seen such as Karmapa Ogyen Trinley. Just look at him with all his lawsuits in India and also the scandal in Taiwan. He will never be able to perform his duty as the Karmapa or live a peaceful life ever again. This is how the CTA controls and use their people. They do not care what is the consequences as long as they can achieve their goal.
Now that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley is not useful for them anymore, CTA tried to get Karmapa Thaye Dorje onto their side because they still need a high lama to command over the Tibetans after His Holiness the Dalai Lama has passed away. That is why they shamelessly showed up at Kagyu Monlam trying to catch a glimpse of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to force him onto their side with His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Luckily, the Karmapa was not there and CTA's evil plan failed.
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When the Karmapa Thaye Dorje announced that he was going to disrobe and get married, it was shocking. Many people could not understand why this is happening. Now, the mystery is kind of solved. The Karmapa is actually providing a conducive environment for the Sharmapa Rinpoche to take rebirth. This is very interesting. What makes it more interesting is also the meeting of the 2 Karmapas. I wonder what will happen next. But I am sure all these events are the manifestation of a high being to benefit us.
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It is true that people get prosperous, fame, power and growth when they take pictures with the Dalai Lama and donate to the CTA in the last 59 years or so. However, this has proven to be wrong with many corruptions and sex scandals to be exposed in recent years. People are starting to see how ineffective the CTA is and how good they are in selling the Dalai Lama's fame for selfish gain.
It is very clear to many that the CTA has not done what they are supposed to and they have not achieved anything for the Tibetan cause which is now inexistent. No one remembers why some of the Tibetans are living in exile. No one remembers what the Dalai Lama's function is. All they remember is the Dalai Lama got really famous around the world but the Tibetans in exile, especially in India, after 60 years are still sweater seller in the winter.
Anyone smart would really not want to have any associations with them. So it is definitely a right move for the Karmapa Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama with his son, Sharmapa Rinpoche. This is the only way to grow and not be dragged down to uneding political games and problems.
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The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no obligation to pay homage or entertain the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the spiritual leader of the Karma Kagyu lineage, but Karmapa is. The Tibetan government in exile have caused so much havoc by creating confusion about who is the real Karmapa by creating multiple Karmapas. Now the CTA needs to be responsible by announcing who is the real Karmapa and end the confusion and controversy.
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The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no obligation to pay homage or entertain the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the spiritual leader of the Karma Kagyu lineage, but Karmapa is. The Tibetan government in exile have caused so much havoc by creating confusion about who is the real Karmapa by creating multiple Karmapas. Now the CTA needs to be responsible by announcing who is the real Karmapa and end the confusion and controversy.
The Dalai Lama and Karmapa Thaye Dorje are from different lineage, different monastery. Spiritually, the Dalai Lama is not any higher than the Karmapa. The Karmapa not seeing the Dalai Lama is not because he is arrogant but there is no need for him to do that.
Since Karmapa does not involve in politic, he also does not have to meet the Dalai Lama in the political sense. Every one seems to have this mis-conception that the Dalai Lama is almighty and all Buddhists have to respect and listen to everything that he says. In Tibetan Buddhism, it is more important to listen and follow the instruction of our teachers than the Dalai Lama.
If all Buddhist has to listen to the Dalai Lama and practice compassion, respect and tolerance, why are there still so many conflicts in the Buddhist community? Why is there still the Dorje Shugden ban?
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The Karmapa Thaye Dorje has no obligation to pay homage or entertain the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the spiritual leader of the Karma Kagyu lineage, but Karmapa is. The Tibetan government in exile have caused so much havoc by creating confusion about who is the real Karmapa by creating multiple Karmapas. Now the CTA needs to be responsible by announcing who is the real Karmapa and end the confusion and controversy.
The CTA has announced who is the real Karmapa and it is not Thaye Dorje.
There is not confusion or controversy on the part of the CTA as to whom they consider the true Karmapa.
They back the 14th Dalai Lama's choice Ogyen Thinley and the CTA has backed him for decades.
I don't care who is the 17th Karmapa since I am a follower of Dorje Shugden.
So Michaela I hope this answers your question once and for all.
8)
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It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.
Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.
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It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.
Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.
Tenzin K, of course, the recognition of the Karmapa and Sharmapa that is NOT chosen by the Dalai Lama has a lot to do with the Dalai Lama since he broke the rules and intercepted and intervened with the Karma Kagyu tradition, when he recognised the Black Karmapa - Ogyen Trinley Dorje (See here the trouble and schism and rivalries and disharmony created by the Dalai Lama due to him poking his nose where it did not belong http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/shamarpas-statement-reveals-dalai-lamas-role-in-karma-kagyu-conflict/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/shamarpas-statement-reveals-dalai-lamas-role-in-karma-kagyu-conflict/) And this Ogyen Trinlet Dorje is not short of many scandals behind his name, see here http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lamas-protege-karmapas-scandal-growing-big/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/news/the-dalai-lamas-protege-karmapas-scandal-growing-big/) which make us wonder more... the Dalai Lama could make wrong decisions!
And now the Sharmapa can incarnate back as the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje, indicates who that Thaye Dorje is no doubt the right Karmapa, so again this goes to show the Dalai Lama was wrong? So if the Dalai Lama could make such grave mistakes in recognising incarnations... he could possibly make grave mistakes is having wrong views, making wrong decisions and creating so much disharmony for the Dorje Shugden practice and its people. So Tenzin K.... this Karmapa story does tell us a lot about the Dalai Lama and that perhaps he does make a mistake, on purpose?
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It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.
Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.
Spiritually, the Dalai Lama has no say in the matter in Karma Kagyu lineage. Every lineage has their own spiritual head. In Gelug lineage, the Dalai Lama is only one of the spiritual lineage, the highest authority is actually the Gaden Tripa, who is also known as the Lama Tsongkhapa on earth.
Therefore, it is very misleading to think the Dalai Lama is above all and everyone has to kow-tow to him. We have to respect him because he is a great Dharma teacher but that does not mean we have to follow his instructions.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje has done nothing wrong not to meet up with the Dalai Lama, he is not arrogant, it is simply because there is no need to do that.
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It's nothing concern the Dalai Lama in the first place. Recognition of Karmapa or Sharmapa has nothing to do with Dalai Lama. Dalai Lama intervention has created a huge split among the Karma Kagyu. As a spiritual teacher, how can this be right? Just to switch the scenario, is it ok for Karmapa to recognize the 15th Dalai Lama? If not then why? Is it's not proper then why Dalai Lama can choose his own candidate and recognize him instead of letting the recognition done by Karmapa tradition.
Karmapa has no reason to follow Dalai Lama as recognition is their own lineage tradition. Dalai Lama action created separation and negative impact towards the Karma Kargyu. This made a lot of people disrespect Dalai Lama and a lot of people are in the confused state with the 2 Karmapa. It's right for Thaye Dorje to ignore the Dalai Lama as if Dalai Lama still in the picture more negative impact would have happened.
Spiritually, the Dalai Lama has no say in the matter in Karma Kagyu lineage. Every lineage has their own spiritual head. In Gelug lineage, the Dalai Lama is only one of the spiritual lineage, the highest authority is actually the Gaden Tripa, who is also known as the Lama Tsongkhapa on earth.
Therefore, it is very misleading to think the Dalai Lama is above all and everyone has to kow-tow to him. We have to respect him because he is a great Dharma teacher but that does not mean we have to follow his instructions.
Karmapa Thaye Dorje has done nothing wrong not to meet up with the Dalai Lama, he is not arrogant, it is simply because there is no need to do that.
The Dalai Lama has to stop meddling in the affair of other lineages. There are so many conflicts in Gelug lineage that he has to deal with in or to restore the harmony and unity in the lineage but he is not doing it. If the Dalai Lama does not want to look into the issues and solve them, it will affect Gelug lineage in the long run.
The two Karmapas have already met up which was a big breakthrough for Karma Kagyu lineage. The two Karmapas issue definitely was one of the topic they have discussed. If both are sincere in spreading Dharma, the title really does not matter. It does not take a Karmapa title to do things that are beneficial to people.
Gelugpas should follow the examples of the two Karmapas, resolve conflict in a civilised way especially the Dorje Shugden issue.
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Breaking news!
The Sharmapa has been recognized by both Karmapas!
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2019
The reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche was recognized by both the Karmapas.
The Thugsey, son of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has been officially recognized as reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche by both the Karmpa H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and H.H. the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje.
In recognition thereof, both the Karmapa Jointly wrote Trulku’s long-life prayer.
This is indeed great good news of the century that will unite Karma Kamtsang and immensely benefits all sentient beings.
https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1 (https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1)
Let's hope this will lead to the reconciliation of both the Karma Kagyu sect.
Now that the whole world knows Sharmapa chose to reincarnate into Thaye Dorje's family and became his son, this would also mean that Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa, given the close relationship of the two.
This will give CTA a huge slap on the face as both Karmapas recognised the baby Sharmapa!
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Breaking news!
The Sharmapa has been recognized by both Karmapas!
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2019
The reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche was recognized by both the Karmapas.
The Thugsey, son of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has been officially recognized as reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche by both the Karmpa H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and H.H. the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje.
In recognition thereof, both the Karmapa Jointly wrote Trulku’s long-life prayer.
This is indeed great good news of the century that will unite Karma Kamtsang and immensely benefits all sentient beings.
https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1 (https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1)
Let's hope this will lead to the reconciliation of both the Karma Kagyu sect.
Now that the whole world knows Sharmapa chose to reincarnate into Thaye Dorje's family and became his son, this would also mean that Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa, given the close relationship of the two.
This will give CTA a huge slap on the face as both Karmapas recognized the baby Sharmapa!
Great news! Indeed it shows Thaye Dorje is the right Karmapa and his recognition is by the tradition. This shows that the Karma Kargyu tradition is authentic and they don’t really need to listen to Dalai Lama and just follow their lineage practices. Dalai Lama should just respect other lineage’s tradition and stop interfering. All other lineages have been practiced for hundreds of years and their attained lamas have been returning for so many times to continue their work and their legacy.
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Breaking news!
The Sharmapa has been recognized by both Karmapas!
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 27, 2019
The reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche was recognized by both the Karmapas.
The Thugsey, son of His Holiness the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje has been officially recognized as reincarnation of His Holiness Kunzig Sharmapa Rinpoche by both the Karmpa H.H. the 17th Karmapa Trinley Thaye Dorje and H.H. the 17th Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje.
In recognition thereof, both the Karmapa Jointly wrote Trulku’s long-life prayer.
This is indeed great good news of the century that will unite Karma Kamtsang and immensely benefits all sentient beings.
https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1 (https://www.phubdorjiwang.com/2019/10/the-reincarnation-of-his-holiness.html?spref=fb&m=1)
Let's hope this will lead to the reconciliation of both the Karma Kagyu sect.
Now that the whole world knows Sharmapa chose to reincarnate into Thaye Dorje's family and became his son, this would also mean that Thaye Dorje is the real Karmapa, given the close relationship of the two.
This will give CTA a huge slap on the face as both Karmapas recognized the baby Sharmapa!
Great news! Indeed it shows Thaye Dorje is the right Karmapa and his recognition is by the tradition. This shows that the Karma Kargyu tradition is authentic and they don’t really need to listen to Dalai Lama and just follow their lineage practices. Dalai Lama should just respect other lineage’s tradition and stop interfering. All other lineages have been practiced for hundreds of years and their attained lamas have been returning for so many times to continue their work and their legacy.
I think in this case, both Karmapas are acknowledging each other as the real Karmapa. Both of them has jointly written the long life prayer for Sharmapa Rinpoche. It is interesting that Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje and the previous Sharmapa were not in good term but now Karmapa Ogyen Trinley Dorje is recognising the reincarnation of the Sharmapa.
It is possible that both Karmapas are real as high lamas have the capability to emanate into different forms or multiple individuals at the same time for the sake of all sentient beings. I wonder what will be the next explosive news, will the two Karmapas be enthroned in Rumtek Monastery?
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
Yes it is probably a BIG SLAP on CTA's face But Ngawang if you read Tracy's comments before yours, I think that might get you thinking and give you a different perspective... like maybe there is 2 Karmapas and the one the Dalai Lama recognise is also Karmapa. Therefore, the Dalai Lama is not wrong in recognition but he should not have meddled into some other people's lineage and tradition that does not involve and concerns him. All this just makes things complicated and there is karma for sure.
So now the karma is, China is wanting to meddle with the recognition of the next Dalai Lama... so obviously CTA and everyone don't like that and does not want that... well, that was exactly how the Karmakagyus were feeing then when the Dalai Lama decided to butt in on their recognition of their Lineage master. That is all I can say to this... proves to me karma is above any holy being. Sorry.
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
Yes it is probably a BIG SLAP on CTA's face But Ngawang if you read Tracy's comments before yours, I think that might get you thinking and give you a different perspective... like maybe there is 2 Karmapas and the one the Dalai Lama recognise is also Karmapa. Therefore, the Dalai Lama is not wrong in recognition but he should not have meddled into some other people's lineage and tradition that does not involve and concerns him. All this just makes things complicated and there is karma for sure.
So now the karma is, China is wanting to meddle with the recognition of the next Dalai Lama... so obviously CTA and everyone don't like that and does not want that... well, that was exactly how the Karmakagyus were feeing then when the Dalai Lama decided to butt in on their recognition of their Lineage master. That is all I can say to this... proves to me karma is above any holy being. Sorry.
What terrifies the Dalai Lama and the CTA is that there are now two 17th Karmapas and two 11th Panchen Lamas.
If there can be two Karmapas and two 11th Panchen Lamas then there can be TWO 15th Dalai Lamas.
That is what terrifies them!!!
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
Personally I rejoice to see the 2 Karmapas working together. I feel this is harmony, peace and a great example of the enlightened beings working together to bring spiritual benefits to many people. I just felt that both of them may be the emanations of the Karmapa. If not they must be highly attained to show us what they can do together to benefit people instead of pointing differences and drag down the dharma practice. This is really beautiful.
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
Personally I rejoice to see the 2 Karmapas working together. I feel this is harmony, peace and a great example of the enlightened beings working together to bring spiritual benefits to many people. I just felt that both of them may be the emanations of the Karmapa. If not they must be highly attained to show us what they can do together to benefit people instead of pointing differences and drag down the dharma practice. This is really beautiful.
I see hope in Karma Kagyu lineage, the jointly written long life prayer for the Sharmapa by the two Karmapas shows that both of them want to unit Karma Kaguy lineage. They know if the two Karmapa dispute does not resolve, Karma Kagyu lineage will remain split which is not healthy at all.
When will the lamas of the anti-Shugden and pro-Shugden camp going to reconcile and work together in preserving the Gelug lineage? The two Karmapas are showing a very good example that unity and harmony are very important if we want things to move forward. We have to accept and respect differences. There are 84000 ways to practice in order to gain enlightenment, why must the CTA or Dalai Lama force their way on others?
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Personally I rejoice to see the 2 Karmapas working together. I feel this is harmony, peace and a great example of the enlightened beings working together to bring spiritual benefits to many people. I just felt that both of them may be the emanations of the Karmapa. If not they must be highly attained to show us what they can do together to benefit people instead of pointing differences and drag down the dharma practice. This is really beautiful.
I AGREE because if you are a high lama or really practising Buddha's dharma teachings and some big-time incarnation Buddha holiness etc. etc... then all the more you should act like one, without bias, anger, jealousy and definitely act out of great compassion, hence there should never be any dispute what so ever. That's the true spirit of DHARMA and Buddha's teachings. ;) REJOICE to them and an excellent example to their followers!
I see hope in Karma Kagyu lineage, the jointly written long-life prayer for the Sharmapa by the two Karmapas shows that both of them want to unit Karma Kaguy lineage. They know if the two Karmapa dispute does not resolve, Karma Kagyu lineage will remain split which is not healthy at all.
YES people should be united... EVEN if they have a different religion or belief... what more if they are of the same spiritual lineage. Any leaders who tries to SPLIT their people are obviously operating out of jealousy and greed. That means they do not abide by the Buddha's teachings, hence not worthy to follow.
When will the lamas of the anti-Shugden and pro-Shugden camp going to reconcile and work together in preserving the Gelug lineage? The two Karmapas are showing a very good example that unity and harmony are very important if we want things to move forward. We have to accept and respect differences. There are 84000 ways to practice in order to gain enlightenment, why must the CTA or Dalai Lama force their way on others?
VERY GOOD QUESTIONS - This is what we Shugdenpas are all waiting to see... will there be true Buddhist practitioners to stand up, speak up and say something because this SPLIT has created so much disharmony, pain and suffering to so many. It is unDharmic and unBuddhist to behave in such a manner. May the Dalai Lama please say something to heal the division and to practice what he preaches about religious tolerance, harmony and compassion in seeing every human being as the SAME - 2 eyes, a nose, a mouth, 2 ears and accept and love everyone as they are... Dorje Shugden people are human beings too Your Holiness. Please reunite us again, like how it was when everything was peaceful! We know CTA will do as you say, once Your Holiness decides.
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VERY GOOD QUESTIONS - This is what we Shugdenpas are all waiting to see... will there be true Buddhist practitioners to stand up, speak up and say something because this SPLIT has created so much disharmony, pain and suffering to so many. It is unDharmic and unBuddhist to behave in such a manner. May the Dalai Lama please say something to heal the division and to practice what he preaches about religious tolerance, harmony and compassion in seeing every human being as the SAME - 2 eyes, a nose, a mouth, 2 ears and accept and love everyone as they are... Dorje Shugden people are human beings too Your Holiness. Please reunite us again, like how it was when everything was peaceful! We know CTA will do as you say, once Your Holiness decides.
Not only we are all the same, whatever accusations the CTA or the Dalai Lama made on Dorje Shugden followers are proven to be not true. For example, the Dalai Lama said if we continue to do Dorje Shugden practice, his life will be shortened. But the current Dalai Lama is one of the longest living Dalai Lama. Very clearly, his life is not shortened.
The CTA has to face the truth and really look into their own problems. Their failure is due to their greed for money and power, not because someone sabotages them. If they continue to blame others for the failure, they will never be successful in any of their projects.
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
Personally I rejoice to see the 2 Karmapas working together. I feel this is harmony, peace and a great example of the enlightened beings working together to bring spiritual benefits to many people. I just felt that both of them may be the emanations of the Karmapa. If not they must be highly attained to show us what they can do together to benefit people instead of pointing differences and drag down the dharma practice. This is really beautiful.
I see hope in Karma Kagyu lineage, the jointly written long life prayer for the Sharmapa by the two Karmapas shows that both of them want to unit Karma Kaguy lineage. They know if the two Karmapa dispute does not resolve, Karma Kagyu lineage will remain split which is not healthy at all.
When will the lamas of the anti-Shugden and pro-Shugden camp going to reconcile and work together in preserving the Gelug lineage? The two Karmapas are showing a very good example that unity and harmony are very important if we want things to move forward. We have to accept and respect differences. There are 84000 ways to practice in order to gain enlightenment, why must the CTA or Dalai Lama force their way on others?
You are right. If the two Karmapas can do it so to the Gelugs. It's just the matter of whether they want to look into the logic or fold their eyes to blindly follow what had been mentioned by the Tibetan leadership. Shugden people have been suffered from the ban and it weaken their entire Tibetan and as wel as the Gelug. Tibetan leadership does not care of all these as long as they gain personal benefit. The anti-Shugden people should really open their eyes and look into effect from the ban. What actually has been achieved from the ban and who actualy benefited from the ban?
Tibetan cannot keep folding their anymore because if they really want a government to look after them and speak for them than they must voice up. The current leadears may not fit but it doesn't mean the Tibetan cannot do anything. It's really up to them and now we can see how the 2 Karmapas able to work together instead of fighting together.
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Now that both Karmapa recognises the son of Karmapa Thaye Dorje to be the new incarnation of Sharmapa Rinpoche, the whole world will know who is the real Karmapa which is the father of the new Sharmapa Rinpoche, Karmapa Thaye Dorje. CTA must be furious for their Karmapa to make such recognition. What will the CTA do now?
Personally I rejoice to see the 2 Karmapas working together. I feel this is harmony, peace and a great example of the enlightened beings working together to bring spiritual benefits to many people. I just felt that both of them may be the emanations of the Karmapa. If not they must be highly attained to show us what they can do together to benefit people instead of pointing differences and drag down the dharma practice. This is really beautiful.
I see hope in Karma Kagyu lineage, the jointly written long life prayer for the Sharmapa by the two Karmapas shows that both of them want to unit Karma Kaguy lineage. They know if the two Karmapa dispute does not resolve, Karma Kagyu lineage will remain split which is not healthy at all.
When will the lamas of the anti-Shugden and pro-Shugden camp going to reconcile and work together in preserving the Gelug lineage? The two Karmapas are showing a very good example that unity and harmony are very important if we want things to move forward. We have to accept and respect differences. There are 84000 ways to practice in order to gain enlightenment, why must the CTA or Dalai Lama force their way on others?
You are right. If the two Karmapas can do it so to the Gelugs. It's just the matter of whether they want to look into the logic or fold their eyes to blindly follow what had been mentioned by the Tibetan leadership. Shugden people have been suffered from the ban and it weaken their entire Tibetan and as wel as the Gelug. Tibetan leadership does not care of all these as long as they gain personal benefit. The anti-Shugden people should really open their eyes and look into effect from the ban. What actually has been achieved from the ban and who actualy benefited from the ban?
Tibetan cannot keep folding their anymore because if they really want a government to look after them and speak for them than they must voice up. The current leadears may not fit but it doesn't mean the Tibetan cannot do anything. It's really up to them and now we can see how the 2 Karmapas able to work together instead of fighting together.
Seriously, it is time to move on, stop all the blames, grow up and take the responsibility! This is what the CTA should do, resolve the conflicts in the Tibetan community. They are not a big community in India, there are only 80,000 of them or maybe less, it is impossible conflicts cannot be resolved. It is really whether the CTA wants to do it or not. But it seems like they are busy disturbing China than doing something beneficial for the Tibetans. Whether they believe in karma, karma is going to come back on them.
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Well here is an interesting outcome and very much welcomed I believe. Well, I rejoice for them. Finally, they can reunite everyone. We are experiencing so much chaos as the world degenerates, it's time for true Dharma practice to flourish and let true leaders be leading examples beyond greed, bias, and the injustice of power-hungry leaders who only cares nothing but themselves. May the victory of the pure lineages prevails as the Buddhas intended.
Two Karmapas to Work Together in Search for Shamar Rinpoche Reincarnation
Ogyen Trinley Dorje and Trinley Thaye Dorjee, the two widely recognized claimants of the title of Karmapa, the most important reincarnation line in the Karma Kagyu lineage of Tibetan Buddhism, have announced plans to jointly identify the reincarnation of the 14th Sharmapa, Mipham Chokyi Lidro, who passed away in Germany on 11 June 2014. The announcement is aimed at helping to solidify the unity between the two leaders, who have been at the heart of a controversy concerning who is the rightful 17th Karmapa.
“It is extremely important that Shamar Rinpoche’s reincarnation be recognized without any mistake or confusion, without any “our side” or “their side.” Having a unanimous recognition is absolutely crucial for Buddhism in general and our lineage in particular, and with this in mind, Gyalwa Thaye Dorje and I intend to cooperate in the search and recognition,” Ogyen Trinley Dorjee said on Sunday at the 37th Kagyu Monlam in Bodh Gaya, India. (Phayul)
He continued: “I see the reincarnation of Shamar Rinpoche as a crucial point for bringing unity to the Kamtsang and am putting effort into it. If the reincarnation of Shamar Rinpoche is disputed, in the future all the Kamtsang high lamas will be disputed and the Kamtsang will be completely split. The attachment and hatred will be the same as in a feud that lasts for generations. If we fall under its power, all the majesty and power of over 900 years of history will be destroyed.” (Phayul)
Kamtsang refers to the lineage of the Karmapas and, by extension, their followers.
The announcement represents a further step to overcome the decades-long division within the Karma Kagyu lineage. The last move was in 2018, when the two Karmapas met for four days in rural France and issued a joint statement declaring a wish to develop a lasting personal connection to heal rifts within the community.*
Shamar Rinpoche, also known as the Shamarpa, is another influential lineage of reincarnated lamas in the Kagyu tradition, dating to Drakpa Senge (1283–1349), who was a student of the third Karmapa. Historically, the two lineages have held close ties and the Karmapas and Sharmapas have often acted as alternating teachers and disciples.
The Karmapa is the head of the Karma Kagyu subsect of the Kagyu lineage, one of the four major schools of Tibetan Buddhism. The other main schools are Gelug, Nyingma, and Sakya. The institution of the Karmapa is the oldest tulku lineage in Tibetan Buddhism, beginning with the first Gyalwa Karmapa, Düsum Khyenpa (1110–93). The lineage predates that of the the Dalai Lamas by more than two centuries. The majority of Tibetan Buddhists recognize Ogyen Trinley Dorje as the 17th Karmapa, while an influential minority recognizes Trinley Thaye Dorje.
Source: https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/two-karmapas-to-work-together-in-search-for-shamar-rinpoche-reincarnation (https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/two-karmapas-to-work-together-in-search-for-shamar-rinpoche-reincarnation)
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