Why are they not doing all this and still keeping images and teachings of Lama Yeshe? Anyone has an answer?
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
If I’m going to be honest, I think it’s nothing more than a financially motivated decision. Watching a Dorje Shugden lama like Kyabje Zong Rinpoche performing funerary rites for their teacher then ditching their teacher’s practice, I can’t imagine that any of that can lead to something positive.
But they probably excuse it away in their heads by saying it’s a small sacrifice to pay for spreading Dharma around the world. Well, I call BS on that. Fake Dharma has no blessings so there’s no point in spreading it anyway.
Just very disappointing seeing such a large organisation basically have no balls to stand up for what’s right and ethical.
Thaimonk has raised some very interesting questions regarding the veneration of Lama Yeshe within FPMT. I guess the only reason they are keeping images, statues, teachings by Lama Yeshe is because it would invalidate their entire organisation, let alone their religious practices if they were to denounce Lama Yeshe as a Dorje Shugden practitioner.
A lot of interesting points were raised about the fact that Lama Yeshe was a Shugdenpa, and if FPMT so fanatically denounce Dorje Shugden why are they not denouncing Lama Yeshe too. It doesn't make sense unless you realise that they are being hypocritical because doing so would invalidate themselves. And that is another point, don't they even realise that what they are saying about other Shugdenpa's applies to themselves since their very spiritual organisation was founded by one!
It's really absurd if you think about it. Ask an ordinary FPMT member what they think about Dorje Shugden and be ready for a hounding diatribe against practitioners. But ask them about Lama Yeshe and all they talk about is multicoloured clouds and rainbows. Lama Yeshe was definitely a great being, a light in the world for sure AND he was a Shugdenpa. But FPMT simply want to brush that under the carpet in order to give a facade of keeping up with the Joneses. A real shame if you ask me. Lama Yeshe should be celebrated for his entire being, not just the parts of his life that were politically correct according to today's standards.
I leave you with another photo of that same statue I think. Its beautiful and depressing at the same. Beautiful to see Lama Zopa venerating Lama Yeshe, but depressing to know what has happened to Lama Yeshe's legacy of Dorje Shugden practice.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt...
If I’m going to be honest, I think it’s nothing more than a financially motivated decision. Watching a Dorje Shugden lama like Kyabje Zong Rinpoche performing funerary rites for their teacher then ditching their teacher’s practice, I can’t imagine that any of that can lead to something positive.
But they probably excuse it away in their heads by saying it’s a small sacrifice to pay for spreading Dharma around the world. Well, I call BS on that. Fake Dharma has no blessings so there’s no point in spreading it anyway.
Just very disappointing seeing such a large organisation basically have no balls to stand up for what’s right and ethical.
You have said the honest truth. I wish FPMT would really reflect this about their founding lamas lineage practice.
Lama Zopa said:
Lama (Yeshe) and I practiced Shugden for many years. That was always the main thing that Lama did whenever there were problems to overcome. At the beginning of every Kopan course, Lama always did Shugden puja to eliminate hindrances.
([url]http://i67.tinypic.com/bdtq84.jpg[/url])
Some other people couldn't keep mum anymore when it comes to FPMT.
([url]http://i65.tinypic.com/2i9coy.jpg[/url])
More haunting pictures and stories here: [url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-dalai-lama-and-dorje-shugden/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/fpmt-dalai-lama-and-dorje-shugden/[/url])
Kopan Monastery had been performing the Dorje Shugden practice from the beginning, as this was Lama Yeshe’s main protector, on whom he relied whenever he needed help for anything.
If you are making a new Dharma connection with a teacher, aside from the other qualities of the teacher that you should check, you should also examine the teacher to make sure that he or she is in harmony with His Holiness Dalai Lama regarding the practice of what is called döl-gyäl, the protector Shugden. Make sure that the teacher does not do this practice. These days, that is an extra analysis you should make. In that way, you’ll avoid problems in the future.
If you have already made a Dharma connection with such teachers and you criticize them or give them up, that is totally incorrect; that is opposite to lam-rim practice. The lam-rim, sutra, and tantra teachings all explain how to practice guru devotion so that we can avoid creating such heavy negative karmas as criticizing our gurus. It’s for our benefit. Since we disciples want profit, not loss, since we aspire to achieve the highest profit, enlightenment, the complete qualities of cessation and realization, it is crucial to know how to practice guru devotion.
Kopan Monastery had been performing the Dorje Shugden practice from the beginning, as this was Lama Yeshe’s main protector, on whom he relied whenever he needed help for anything. But since His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the one who holds, preserves, and spreads the entire Buddhist Dharma—both the lesser vehicle and the Mahayana, Paramitayana, and Secret Mantra Vajrayana—without the existence of His Holiness, not only Tibetan Mahayana Buddhism but Buddhism in general would suffer in the world. It would be similar to when children are left behind when their parents die. It would be like that.
Personally, at the ultimate level, I do not see Lama Zopa or FPMT people as having broken samaya or having any contradictions in their practices. Having lots of Lama Yeshe statues and perhaps not openly practicing Dorje Shugden can go hand in hand in fulfilling the requirements of guru devotion and the view that Lama Yeshe, Lama Zopa and the Dalai Lama are indeed all Buddhas.
When Lama Osel takes over as spiritual advisor, he could perhaps manifest a different aspect with regards to this current issue.
My favorite quote:
"Even though we have many high lamas, not everyone is able to manifest this particular aspect, even though from my side the virtuous friends are of the same essence."
Since Lama Yeshe worshipped Dorje Shugden, that means all teachings, lineages, oral transmissions, initiations passed from Lama Yeshe to Lama Zopa and many disciples are corrupted. So since all that is from Lama Yeshe is corrupted, why keep a statue of him on the shrine? Why worship corruption?
It is very dishonest to lie to people who wish to involve their spirituality in FPMT centers by not letting others know what they are getting into.
Lama Yeshe never gave up Dorje Shugden practice. However, Lama Yeshe is still one of the Dorje Shugden lineage gurus in FPMT. FPMT claimed they are clean from anything to do with Dorje Shugden. Why continue to pray and ask for blessings from Dorje Shugden lamas? It doesn't make sense to me.
Clearly, they are taking advantage of the kindness of Dorje Shugden lineage masters while condemning the Dorje Shugden practice at the same time. What happened to all those years of receiving teachings and practices from Lama Yeshe? This seems contradictory but it is happening now where the FPMT is getting away with hiding this information.
I guess they're in for the reputation. If FPMT did truly follow Lama Yeshe they wouldn't have condemned Dorje Shugden. They don't need to condemn Dorje Shugden if their goal is spirituality.
Thaimonk raised some excellent questions. I would be amazed if anyone from the FPMT attempts to answer them. Because by all principles of Tibetan Buddhism and Guru Devotion, what Lama Zopa and the FPMT are doing are wrong and bereft of logic.
Here are more questions for Lama Zopa and the FPMT:
1. Kopan Monastery was built with the blessings of Dorje Shugden and with sponsorship of Dorje Shugden practitioners. If FPMT are so obsessed with being clean, why don't they return the unclean sponsorship?
([url]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/04/2c/89/042c8954fadc4a8ba47ed947ca8c5a8c.jpg[/url])
2. Why does FPMT advise its students to recite Lama Osel's long life prayer? Since Lama Yeshe was a Shugden practitioner, he would have reincarnated in the lower realms. So why make long life prayers to a person who isn't the reincarnation of Lama Yeshe?
([url]https://imgur.com/a/ROBF6zi[/url])
3. Why doesn't Lama Zopa denounce his own teacher? Why doesn't Lama Zopa publicly announce that Lama Yeshe made a mistake when it came to Dorje Shugden? Even the Dalai Lama has publicly said on multiple occasions that Trijang Rinpoche made a mistake. If Lama Zopa wants to pursue the politically correct path, why doesn't he dare do the same to his own teacher? By extension, why don't senior FPMT students condemn Lama Yeshe for making a mistake?
([url]https://i.pinimg.com/236x/9d/35/8f/9d358f0a17f1dfe57e40e85a1d54080d--lamas-the-picture.jpg[/url])
4. Why did Lama Zopa barter away his root teacher for political correctness?
Why give up this precious connection....
([url]https://www.lamayeshe.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/12640_sl-4.jpg[/url])
([url]http://sandraestivals.e-monsite.com/medias/album/lama-yeshe-et-zopa.jpg[/url])
([url]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhXPAUMUEAUZSsc.jpg[/url])
([url]http://teachingsfromtibet.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/38502_ng.jpg[/url])
...for this???
([url]http://detongling.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/director_a.jpg[/url])
Is it worth giving up your root teacher, your principles, your honor, your integrity, all for the sake of association with the Dalai Lama, political correctness and money? Is that what the Buddha taught? Was it all worth it?
Look at the photo HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Lama Yeshe. Such a happy moment and they are close to each other. They are Dorje Shugden practitioner.
However, with the ban of Dorje Shugden practice, all these has created disharmony, segregation, suffering of physically and mentally.
Dorje Shugden is definitely not harming and it has been practiced by His Holiness 14 Dalai Lama (HHDL) teachers ie HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and etc So what harming does it cause?
Has Lama Osel publicly condemned Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe's practice of Dorje Shugden??
Could Lama Zopa be doing all this to keep Lama Yeshe and his Dorje Shugden practice alive in a "Secret Manner".
On one hand condemning Dorje Shugden while on the other hand creating statues of Lama Yeshe a great public teacher of Dorje Shugden.
There may to more to all this than meets the eye.
Just a possible theory.
Has Lama Osel publicly condemned Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe's practice of Dorje Shugden??
If Lama Osel has not condemned either Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe why not??
You would think he would.
Has Lama Zopa ever stated publicly that Lama Osel condemns both Dorje Shugden and Lama Yeshe for practicing Dorje Shugden?
If not why not?
It would only make sense that he would have Lama Osel condemn them both.
Could Lama Zopa be doing all this to keep Lama Yeshe and his Dorje Shugden practice alive in a "Secret Manner".
On one hand condemning Dorje Shugden while on the other hand creating statues of Lama Yeshe a great public teacher of Dorje Shugden.
There may to more to all this than meets the eye.
Just a possible theory.Has Lama Osel publicly condemned Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe's practice of Dorje Shugden??
If Lama Osel has not condemned either Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe why not??
You would think he would.
Has Lama Zopa ever stated publicly that Lama Osel condemns both Dorje Shugden and Lama Yeshe for practicing Dorje Shugden?
If not why not?
It would only make sense that he would have Lama Osel condemn them both.
Could Lama Zopa be doing all this to keep Lama Yeshe and his Dorje Shugden practice alive in a "Secret Manner".
On one hand condemning Dorje Shugden while on the other hand creating statues of Lama Yeshe a great public teacher of Dorje Shugden.
There may to more to all this than meets the eye.
Just a possible theory.Has Lama Osel publicly condemned Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe's practice of Dorje Shugden??
If Lama Osel has not condemned either Dorje Shugden or Lama Yeshe why not??
You would think he would.
Has Lama Zopa ever stated publicly that Lama Osel condemns both Dorje Shugden and Lama Yeshe for practicing Dorje Shugden?
If not why not?
It would only make sense that he would have Lama Osel condemn them both.
Here is a link to an article on this forum about Lama Zopa giving money to the CTA.
[url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=6198.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=6198.0[/url])
Could Lama Zopa be paying the CTA "Blackmail" money to stop the CTA from demanding that Lama Osel publicly condemn Lama Yeshe for his Dorje Shugden practice?
Is this why the FPMT is allowed to have statues of Lama Yeshe???
Just a theory.
It does not make any good sense for FPMT to keep statues of their founder, and they do not agree with what he practices or what their founder represented, a good solid practitioner of Dorje Shugden, faultless and loyal towards Dorje Shugden.
There are also pictures of Lama Zopa doing practices towards Trijang Rinpoche's stupa, of course Trijang Rinpoche is compassionate and forgives all who break samaya with him and Dorje Shugden. But why on one hand ban Dorje Shugden and on the other hand do puja at Trijang Rinpoche stupa who was a great Dorje Shugden lama who proliferated the teaching to thousands. isn't that somewhat hypocritical?
Opinions on the whole Shugden issue has always been contradicting isn't it? With this latest issue, i hope it is creating more doubts among those haters of Dorje Shugden and make them realise the reasoning behind demonizing Dorje Shugden has always been contradicting. Time to really think and analyse all the claims against Dorje Shugden and revive this sacred practice in Tibetan Buddhism.
From the FPMT website: “Restriction: FPMT has recently issued a new policy regarding the Shugden practice in accordance with the wishes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Lama Zopa Rinpoche has expressed the wish “not to have a guru-disciple relationship with anyone who is practicing Shugden.”
If that is the case, why is Lama Zopa and FPMT still worhsip Lama Yeshe's statue in FMPT center? Why do they still worship their late guru Lama Yeshe? Should't they cut off any guru-disciple relationship with Lama Yeshe since Lama Yeshe was a Shugden practitioner when he was alive? Why the double standard?
FPMT POLICY: FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are known Shugden practitioners.
So please remove all teachings from FPMT because all of that Lama Zopa teaches are from his guru Lama Yeshe, and after all Lama Yeshe's teachings removed, there is nothing left in FPMT, so please close down all FPMT centers?
FPMT is full of absurdities in their policy regarding Dorje Shugden: https://fpmt.org/teachers/zopa/advice/shugden/
Having said the above, it would also be pertinent to remind that there are many "ordinary view" practitioners in FPMT and elsewhere who should ponder the questions posted by Thaimonk.
Being vehement and even violent against DS persons/organizations is not what Lama Zopa teaches. Don't ever think that he teachers that. In fact I would like to quote Lama Zopa once again on this issue:
"Another side of the teaching is that it is mentioned that the protector is an Arya Bodhisattva, a manifestation of Manjushri. So, then, there is also the risk of our creating very heavy karma in that context."
And there is a whole post you can read here about this:
https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/letter-from-a-senior-fpmt-monk/
Letter from a senior FPMT monk
November 24, 2008
Below are some extracts from a letter written by Yeshe Sangye, a senior FPMT monk and close disciple of Lama Yeshe. The full letter can be found here. As he says himself at the end of his letter:
I hope all that read this would understand better.
That is my hope to write. As I have not said anything for over twenty years.
Why are we including his letter here? Because many times NKT-IKBU Centers and students have been at the receiving end of slander and disruption at the hands of FPMT Centers and students, ever since the Dalai Lama spoke out against Dorje Shugden and the FPMT decided to follow his lead. This is a fact, and it is backed up by Yeshe Sangye (below).
It is a serious matter to be involved in criticizing other Mahayana traditions (it’s a downfall of the Bodhisattva vows) and impeding the spreading of pure Buddhadharma is contributing to the suffering of others. This is a big world, big enough for NKT~IKBU and the FPMT and all other Buddhist traditions. There are billions of suffering beings and these beings all have different karma. While we rejoice in the FPMT’s work of spreading Buddha’s teachings, we do not rejoice in their political actions against the NKT because of following the Dalai Lama’s view. Dharma mixed with politics is like delicious food mixed with poison – the only result will be suffering in the end.
As explained on the New Kadampa Truth website, FPMT members are regularly contributing to Internet forums where they criticize the NKT and try to dissuade anyone reading their posts from attending NKT Centers. The NKT has written to the FPMT asking them to desist from criticizing our tradition and specifically mentioning some individuals on the Geshe program (Tenzin Peljor); but nothing has improved. Quite apart from the fact that the FPMT de facto has an official policy of discrimination in place by not allowing Dorje Shugden practitioners to be teachers, to ordain in the FPMT tradition, or even to attend FPMT teachings, here are a few specific examples of the treatment the NKT has received from the FPMT:
FPMT Mexico has officially criticized NKT on their website.
One FPMT student claimed on an Amazon Buddhist discussion group that we are praying for the death of the Dalai Lama or FPMT Teachers such as Thubten Gonpo, one of our main critics.
A personal story from an NKT Teacher: “A student of mine who was heading for Foundation Programme spent the summer in Nepal. He took one of the 10 day Lamrim courses at Kopan and told one of the nuns, a Swedish nun called Ven Karen, that he was from Kingston and went to the NKT Centre there. He said she then spent a long time trying to convince him that we were a cult and that he should not go there. She brought up things like we worship an evil spirit, we’re all about money etc. He came back disillusioned about our Centre and Buddhism in general. He wasn’t impressed with the FPMT that much, but her words stuck and after a couple of meetings with him, he left, taking with him our core students from the University.”
Another personal story from an NKT Teacher: “We had a student in Taiwan whose auntie became an FPMT nun and was banned from coming to our centre. His name is ***** and N**** is still in touch with him.”
A story of discrimination from France: “Around 2004 Vivre Autrement alternative health fair in Paris. We were denied a stand at this very popular annual event which attracts 1000s. I had applied under the name of Editions Tharpa, mainly to offer books etc. FPMT people turned the organizers against us, as they wanted to have a stand, and we were refused.”
According to one testimonial received from an NKT member in Boston:”We were constantly hearing feedback from General Program students about how they were told by the FPMTers that we who attended NKT centers were not Buddhists, we were a money making cult, we had no authority to teach, our ordinations were not real, Geshe Kelsang was an evil wizard leading us all into hell … you get the idea.”
These are just a few examples – we have many more examples of FPMT interference in the development of the NKT-IKBU, and this sad state of affairs is still continuing today.
Lama Yeshe of the FPMT was no spirit worshipper. His wish in establishing the FPMT was to spread Dharma in the West, a wish that the New Kadampa Tradition is fulfilling. There is no conflict between Lama Yeshe’s and Geshe Kelsang’s intentions, and they were close friends and peers who regularly engaged in Gelugpa spiritual practice together, including monthly Dorje Shugden pujas; so why is the FPMT attacking us? It can only be because FPMT members have become a political tool of the Dalai Lama’s to fulfill his wish to destroy this tradition. Is this any way to repay Lama Yeshe’s kindness?
(https://info-buddhism.com/bilder/TIN-Shugden/DSC_6412-2.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQt-3IlrvebhuujZyYO8FsWQ0vmvQAnIXSGWDpuY5f4mrq4nISZqA)
So please think before you act and this includes the Tibetan leadership in India.
Karma bites!
Having said the above, it would also be pertinent to remind that there are many "ordinary view" practitioners in FPMT and elsewhere who should ponder the questions posted by Thaimonk.
Being vehement and even violent against DS persons/organizations is not what Lama Zopa teaches. Don't ever think that he teachers that. In fact I would like to quote Lama Zopa once again on this issue:
"Another side of the teaching is that it is mentioned that the protector is an Arya Bodhisattva, a manifestation of Manjushri. So, then, there is also the risk of our creating very heavy karma in that context."
And there is a whole post you can read here about this:
https://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2008/11/24/letter-from-a-senior-fpmt-monk/
Letter from a senior FPMT monk
November 24, 2008
Below are some extracts from a letter written by Yeshe Sangye, a senior FPMT monk and close disciple of Lama Yeshe. The full letter can be found here. As he says himself at the end of his letter:
I hope all that read this would understand better.
That is my hope to write. As I have not said anything for over twenty years.
Why are we including his letter here? Because many times NKT-IKBU Centers and students have been at the receiving end of slander and disruption at the hands of FPMT Centers and students, ever since the Dalai Lama spoke out against Dorje Shugden and the FPMT decided to follow his lead. This is a fact, and it is backed up by Yeshe Sangye (below).
It is a serious matter to be involved in criticizing other Mahayana traditions (it’s a downfall of the Bodhisattva vows) and impeding the spreading of pure Buddhadharma is contributing to the suffering of others. This is a big world, big enough for NKT~IKBU and the FPMT and all other Buddhist traditions. There are billions of suffering beings and these beings all have different karma. While we rejoice in the FPMT’s work of spreading Buddha’s teachings, we do not rejoice in their political actions against the NKT because of following the Dalai Lama’s view. Dharma mixed with politics is like delicious food mixed with poison – the only result will be suffering in the end.
As explained on the New Kadampa Truth website, FPMT members are regularly contributing to Internet forums where they criticize the NKT and try to dissuade anyone reading their posts from attending NKT Centers. The NKT has written to the FPMT asking them to desist from criticizing our tradition and specifically mentioning some individuals on the Geshe program (Tenzin Peljor); but nothing has improved. Quite apart from the fact that the FPMT de facto has an official policy of discrimination in place by not allowing Dorje Shugden practitioners to be teachers, to ordain in the FPMT tradition, or even to attend FPMT teachings, here are a few specific examples of the treatment the NKT has received from the FPMT:
FPMT Mexico has officially criticized NKT on their website.
One FPMT student claimed on an Amazon Buddhist discussion group that we are praying for the death of the Dalai Lama or FPMT Teachers such as Thubten Gonpo, one of our main critics.
A personal story from an NKT Teacher: “A student of mine who was heading for Foundation Programme spent the summer in Nepal. He took one of the 10 day Lamrim courses at Kopan and told one of the nuns, a Swedish nun called Ven Karen, that he was from Kingston and went to the NKT Centre there. He said she then spent a long time trying to convince him that we were a cult and that he should not go there. She brought up things like we worship an evil spirit, we’re all about money etc. He came back disillusioned about our Centre and Buddhism in general. He wasn’t impressed with the FPMT that much, but her words stuck and after a couple of meetings with him, he left, taking with him our core students from the University.”
Another personal story from an NKT Teacher: “We had a student in Taiwan whose auntie became an FPMT nun and was banned from coming to our centre. His name is ***** and N**** is still in touch with him.”
A story of discrimination from France: “Around 2004 Vivre Autrement alternative health fair in Paris. We were denied a stand at this very popular annual event which attracts 1000s. I had applied under the name of Editions Tharpa, mainly to offer books etc. FPMT people turned the organizers against us, as they wanted to have a stand, and we were refused.”
According to one testimonial received from an NKT member in Boston:”We were constantly hearing feedback from General Program students about how they were told by the FPMTers that we who attended NKT centers were not Buddhists, we were a money making cult, we had no authority to teach, our ordinations were not real, Geshe Kelsang was an evil wizard leading us all into hell … you get the idea.”
These are just a few examples – we have many more examples of FPMT interference in the development of the NKT-IKBU, and this sad state of affairs is still continuing today.
Lama Yeshe of the FPMT was no spirit worshipper. His wish in establishing the FPMT was to spread Dharma in the West, a wish that the New Kadampa Tradition is fulfilling. There is no conflict between Lama Yeshe’s and Geshe Kelsang’s intentions, and they were close friends and peers who regularly engaged in Gelugpa spiritual practice together, including monthly Dorje Shugden pujas; so why is the FPMT attacking us? It can only be because FPMT members have become a political tool of the Dalai Lama’s to fulfill his wish to destroy this tradition. Is this any way to repay Lama Yeshe’s kindness?
(https://info-buddhism.com/bilder/TIN-Shugden/DSC_6412-2.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQt-3IlrvebhuujZyYO8FsWQ0vmvQAnIXSGWDpuY5f4mrq4nISZqA)
So please think before you act and this includes the Tibetan leadership in India.
Karma bites!
It is really sad to see the legacy of such an eminent Lama (Lama Yeshe) go down the drain due to the broken samaya of the students. From your earlier article, Lama Zopa's statement had that underlying meaning of the authenticity of DS practice and that he still believed in DS but circumstances belied his open practice. It seem as though his students acted just like how CTA took the Dalai Lama's words and propel the whole ban into discrimination, persecution and all the negative actions that is totally against any Buddhist tenet of compassion. The world is so big, what is wrong with the existence of differences? After all there are other different religions as well, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc. So why does FPMT not take actions against those too? Speak about narrow minded neurosis. It is very scary the kind of Karma that they are gathering. I could just imagine the hearts of the older disciples who were true to their practice....must really be heavy from watching how their Guru, Lama Yeshe's hard works get desecrated by such wrongness.
From the FPMT website: “Restriction: FPMT has recently issued a new policy regarding the Shugden practice in accordance with the wishes of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Lama Zopa Rinpoche has expressed the wish “not to have a guru-disciple relationship with anyone who is practicing Shugden.”
If that is the case, why is Lama Zopa and FPMT still worhsip Lama Yeshe's statue in FMPT center? Why do they still worship their late guru Lama Yeshe? Should't they cut off any guru-disciple relationship with Lama Yeshe since Lama Yeshe was a Shugden practitioner when he was alive? Why the double standard?
FPMT POLICY: FPMT teachers and key staff should not attend teachings by teachers who are known Shugden practitioners.
So please remove all teachings from FPMT because all of that Lama Zopa teaches are from his guru Lama Yeshe, and after all Lama Yeshe's teachings removed, there is nothing left in FPMT, so please close down all FPMT centers?
FPMT is full of absurdities in their policy regarding Dorje Shugden: https://fpmt.org/teachers/zopa/advice/shugden/
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This is an excellent point. If Lama Zopa does not wish to have a guru disciple relationship with those who practice Shugden, why does he still have statues of his root guru Lama Yeshe who practiced Dorje Shugden his whole life? Why does he place statues of Lama Yeshe at various FPMT centres and Kopan for students to pay homage to? If he places statues of Lama Yeshe on the shrines, then obviously he is still having a relationship of guru-disciple with Lama Yeshe. Why the double standard.
Strange.
Why are they not doing all this and still keeping images and teachings of Lama Yeshe? Anyone has an answer?
Why are they not doing all this and still keeping images and teachings of Lama Yeshe? Anyone has an answer?
Logically speaking, according to anti-Shugden people's logic, both founders of FMPT are not qualified to pass down any lineage teachings as both are corrupted.
Lama Yeshe is a strong Dorje Shugden practitioner throughout his life. Whatever teachings that transmitted by him should be regarded as invalid. Hence, as a student of Lama Yeshe, Lama Zopa's teachings are also corrupted. All FPMT's teachings are corrupted.
Lama Zopa was recognized by Dorje Shugden. If Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, then shouldn't we think that whoever being recognized by Him is also the wrong candidate? Then who is Lama Zopa? A reincarnated lama who was recognized by Dorje Shugden? A student of a Dorje Shugden practitioner?
Where do all FPMT teachings come from? Are they still valid if both of their founders are corrupted in the beginning?
So by keeping Lama Yeshe's statue on their shrine, it's either FMPT is trying to hide the truth, hoping that no one will figure out the logic, or they themselves are naive to the logic itself. Either by hiding the truth or being naive, they are not qualified to pass down any lineage teachings, as one is lying, and another one is incapable.
It is not logical for FPMT to give up Dorje Shugden practice but still practice other practices from Lama Yeshe. They cannot be selective on the teachings that the Guru gives. On the other hand, when they condemn Dorje Shugden practice is a demonic practice, they are indirectly saying their Guru is a demon practitioner. How can they still practice any other practices that are given by a demon practitioner?
QuoteIt is not logical for FPMT to give up Dorje Shugden practice but still practice other practices from Lama Yeshe. They cannot be selective on the teachings that the Guru gives. On the other hand, when they condemn Dorje Shugden practice is a demonic practice, they are indirectly saying their Guru is a demon practitioner. How can they still practice any other practices that are given by a demon practitioner?
Agree with what you said Alex. How is it possible that the Lamas can make a mistake practising and spreading a demonic practice can also be spreading Buddha's teachings? Somehow FPMT does not get this part. That's because they are doing all this for political reasons.
No religion that is true and good would ever discriminate anyone. What FPMT does is not Buddhist and totally hypocritical. Their discrimination makes them undharmic and all this will eventually come back to them. I guess it has already begun when Lama Osel disrobed and now heading nowhere and is a nobody and Lama Zopa had a stroke. When will they wake up and mend their samaya? Is this the beginning of the end for FPMT? A slow death?
QuoteIt is not logical for FPMT to give up Dorje Shugden practice but still practice other practices from Lama Yeshe. They cannot be selective on the teachings that the Guru gives. On the other hand, when they condemn Dorje Shugden practice is a demonic practice, they are indirectly saying their Guru is a demon practitioner. How can they still practice any other practices that are given by a demon practitioner?
Agree with what you said Alex. How is it possible that the Lamas can make a mistake practising and spreading a demonic practice can also be spreading Buddha's teachings? Somehow FPMT does not get this part. That's because they are doing all this for political reasons.
No religion that is true and good would ever discriminate anyone. What FPMT does is not Buddhist and totally hypocritical. Their discrimination makes them undharmic and all this will eventually come back to them. I guess it has already begun when Lama Osel disrobed and now heading nowhere and is a nobody and Lama Zopa had a stroke. When will they wake up and mend their samaya? Is this the beginning of the end for FPMT? A slow death?
FPMT is definitely playing the politic game here. There are no other reasons for FPMT to give up Dorje Shugden practice in the first place unless it is to look politically correct to get on CTA's and Dalai Lama's good side. Being on their side can get more supporters, sponsors and also members by using Dalai Lama's fame.
It is undeniable that outwardly being against the Dalai Lama can bring some severe consequences to the center but when it compared to breaking their samaya with Lama Yeshe, it is nothing. When they break their samaya with Lama Yeshe by invalidating part of his teaching, the blessing of the lama and lineage masters will stop.
Whatever spiritual activity that they plan to carry out in their center will have no blessing and no lineage. It is much worst to break your samaya with your guru than to have fewer members and fewer sponsorships. Now that the karma of their broken samaya with Lama Yeshe has manifested when Lama Osel decided to lead a secular life and Lama Zopa suffered from a stroke which hinders the spreading of dharma
QuoteIt is not logical for FPMT to give up Dorje Shugden practice but still practice other practices from Lama Yeshe. They cannot be selective on the teachings that the Guru gives. On the other hand, when they condemn Dorje Shugden practice is a demonic practice, they are indirectly saying their Guru is a demon practitioner. How can they still practice any other practices that are given by a demon practitioner?
Agree with what you said Alex. How is it possible that the Lamas can make a mistake practising and spreading a demonic practice can also be spreading Buddha's teachings? Somehow FPMT does not get this part. That's because they are doing all this for political reasons.
No religion that is true and good would ever discriminate anyone. What FPMT does is not Buddhist and totally hypocritical. Their discrimination makes them undharmic and all this will eventually come back to them. I guess it has already begun when Lama Osel disrobed and now heading nowhere and is a nobody and Lama Zopa had a stroke. When will they wake up and mend their samaya? Is this the beginning of the end for FPMT? A slow death?
FPMT is definitely playing the politic game here. There are no other reasons for FPMT to give up Dorje Shugden practice in the first place unless it is to look politically correct to get on CTA's and Dalai Lama's good side. Being on their side can get more supporters, sponsors and also members by using Dalai Lama's fame.
It is undeniable that outwardly being against the Dalai Lama can bring some severe consequences to the center but when it compared to breaking their samaya with Lama Yeshe, it is nothing. When they break their samaya with Lama Yeshe by invalidating part of his teaching, the blessing of the lama and lineage masters will stop.
Whatever spiritual activity that they plan to carry out in their center will have no blessing and no lineage. It is much worst to break your samaya with your guru than to have fewer members and fewer sponsorships. Now that the karma of their broken samaya with Lama Yeshe has manifested when Lama Osel decided to lead a secular life and Lama Zopa suffered from a stroke which hinders the spreading of dharma
FPMT giving up Dorje Shugden practice must have been motivated by money. They want to be political right and they don't want to lose their sponsors. Many lamas who didn't give up Dorje Shugden practice have lost many sponsors.
Perhaps it is out of fear that they might not survive without the big sponsors so FPMT decided to give up the practice their lama has given them. But what they didn't realise is that they have broken their Samaya with their lama and nothing they do will have any blessing at all. I think Lama Zopa didn't make this decision himself, he left it to his students to decide. But he is still practicing Dorje Shugden secretly.
The manifestation of the stroke suffered by Lama Zopa is a clear indication something is not right with the students. Lama Zopa might be taking on some heavy negative karma of the students by manifesting the stroke. As for Lama Osel, he must be quite disappointed with how FPMT is run, he has not parted fully from the center but he is not doing much for FPMT either. It is a pity that Lama Osel in this life is not able to do as much Dharma work as Lama Yeshe.
Lama Osel disrobed, never finished his studies, achieved nothing much in his secular life, just running around with his girlfriend and clubbing in Ibizia, Spain. His previous life accomplished so much with the help of his determination, hard work and Dorje Shugden. Lama Yeshe credited much of his success to the help he was bestowed by Dorje Shugden. By FPMT abanding Dorje Shugden, they broke their samaya with their lineage gurus such as Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche from whom they received the Dorje Shugden sogtae commitment practice. Also it was with Lama Yeshe's permission they received sogtae from these great masters. By abandoning the practice, they broke their spiritual bond (samaya) which is sacred in tantra with Lama Yeshe and lineage lamas. So it is no surprise Lama Yeshe came back in this incarnation unable to manifest being a great dharma teacher like his previous life. It is a shame and embarrassment to FPMT that Lama Osel ended up not doing much. It is a testimony to their failure in keeping their samaya to their guru and lineage lamas.
In FPMT's centre called Tushita in Dharamsala, North India, they have a statue of Lama Yeshe in the form of Vajrasattva with consort. Now the question is simple: If Lama Yeshe practiced Dorje Shugden, then he is a bad lama, so why doesn't FPMT stop the homage/respect to their founding father Lama Yeshe?
In FPMT's centre called Tushita in Dharamsala, North India, they have a statue of Lama Yeshe in the form of Vajrasattva with consort. Now the question is simple: If Lama Yeshe practiced Dorje Shugden, then he is a bad lama, so why doesn't FPMT stop the homage/respect to their founding father Lama Yeshe?
It's so bizarre how FPMT has deified Lama Yeshe to such an extent, but refuse to accept their lama's Dorje Shugden practice.
If Lama Zopa saying that his own guru's practice may be a mistake, and he's saying that the same guru, who he regards as an enlightened being (and in this case with the Vajrasattva statue, as a Buddha) is gravely wrong... then, why would anyone want to be a Tibetan Buddhist or even be any kind of Buddhist if the Buddhas can make mistakes?!!!
Is FPMT the Foundation for the Preservation of the Mahayana Tradition, or does it really just stand for: Foundation for the Poisoning of the Mahayana Tradition?
Lama Zopa, who has received sogtae (initiation of Dorje Shugden) from His Holiness Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, had said that:
"Lama (Yeshe) and I practiced Shugden for many years. That was always the main thing that Lama did whenever there were problems to overcome. At the beginning of every Kopan course, Lama always did Shugden puja to eliminate hindrances."
"My root guru, His Holiness Trijang Rinpoche; Pabongka Dechen Nyingpo, His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s guru’s root guru; His Holiness Zong Rinpoche, from whom many of the older students received the initiation of Shugden; and the previous incarnation of Gomo Rinpoche, who has a strong connection with Istituto Lama Tsongkhapa, here in Italy, all promoted the practice of Shugden."
Photos: 1) Teachings by H.H. Kyabje Zong Rinpoche to FPMT students. 2) As Lama Yeshe reached the end of his life, Kyabje Zong Rinpoche came to the hospital to do prayers for Lama Yeshe. Lama Yeshe was very devoted to Kyabje Zong Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden till the end.
Thank you thaimonk for posting. There is just too many clear evidence showing how devoted Lama Yeshe is towards his Gurus and also towards his protector Dorje Shugden. I doubt that Lama Yeshe would ever give up his Guru and practice just to be seen to be politically correct.
So why is FPMT so hung up over be "pure" and "clean" while they worship Lama Yeshe who is a Shugden devotee through and through? How can they go around condemning and discriminating other Lamas and practitioners while the worship and seek blessings from a Shugden Lama?
I also heard that awhile back Tsem Tulku actually donated a huge 3 feet Lama Tsongkhapa statue with his 2 heart disciples to Root Institue in Bodhgaya. Now we all know that Tsem Tulku is a huge advocate for lifting the Shugden ban through peaceful means, so why is FPMT keeping a Shugden Lama's gift? Shouldn't it be considered unpure and unclean, hence returned to the sponsor(s)? I believe the picture below will show you the statue that Tsem Tulku donated in the past.
(https://preview.ibb.co/iX6qiA/34-A-LZR-on-throne-in-gompa-with-bell-and-text.jpg) (https://ibb.co/dGjMqq)
alumina melting temperature (https://aluminumsulfate.net/aluminum-oxide)
I think FPMT just wants to be in Dalai Lama's good book so they did not think too much of their action. They did not think people will start questioning them the logic behind giving up Dorje Shugden practice and keeping Lama Yeshe's statue in their center. They just happily think they are pure and clean because they don't practice Dorje Shugden.
If FPMT is really so goody, they would have started their centers from scratch without using anything left behind by the Dorje Shugden practitioners. The statues they put on their altar should be the Dalai Lama since they are following the Dalai Lama's instructions. They have abandoned their teacher! It just shows how greedy FPMT is. They are profiting on Lama Yeshe's attainments!
Lama Yeshe was a great lama who spread Dharma in the western world. Many still respect Lama Yeshe until today. His achievements are a great tool to give FPMT a very prestigious status and can help to draw many students to their centres. So FPMT is, in fact, making use of Lama Yeshe's fame to make money. No wonder Lama Osel refuses to go back to FPMT and remains as an ordinary person.
How does giving up the practice given by the guru make a center pure and clean? To begin with, the center is founded by a Dorje Shugden lama, the donations to build the center came from Dorje Shugden practitioners. Everything FPMT has now now was the result of the great effort put in by Dorje Shugden practitioners.
The teachings they have received are from Dorje Shugden lamas. The fact that the FPMT or Lama Zopa has given up Dorje Shugden practice does not make FPMT or Lama Yeshe clean because all the knowledge Lama Yeshe has, came from Dorje Shugden lamas. If he continues to spread Dharma, which was passed down to him by a Dorje Shugden lama, does it mean he is not teaching pure Dharma since Dorje Shugden is equivalent to impurity? How is it possible an impure monk like Lama Yeshe can give pure teaching?
If FPMT's teachings are pure, it means what Lama Yeshe has taught Lama Zopa was pure. If the teachings of Lama Yeshe were pure, it means Lama Yeshe was pure. If Lama Yeshe was pure it means Dorje Shugden is pure! It cannot be everything about Lama Yeshe is pure except for the Dorje Shugden practice. All gurus are perfect, how can Lama Yeshe have faults? FPMT really have to look at their own logic.
It happens many years ago. A monk Kopan monastery secretly went to Phelgye Ling monastery to request Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.
It happens many years ago. A monk Kopan monastery secretly went to Phelgye Ling monastery to request Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa's health.
This is interesting to know. Even though those monks who abandoned this protector practice, deep down they know what is the true nature of Dorje Shugden. During the darkest hour, they will seek this Protector's help instead of doing other protector Pujas. They know that Dorje Shugden will definitely help and his puja is the most effective among all the protectors because of his karma is the strongest with us.
The reason they abandon the practice is their own personal reasons and it is not because Dorje Shugden is a demon. Most of the people who give up the practice chose the eight worldly dharmas over their protector. Some even broke their samaya just to be politically correct just like FPMT students.
There is another possibility for why the monk requested a Dorje Shugden puja for Lama Zopa could be Lama Zopa himself was the one who wanted it? It is possible that Lama Zopa knew that at that time only Dorje Shugden can help him and so he sent someone to request the puja at Phelgyeling Monastery. Now we know, Dorje Shugden remains as the beacon of hope even for those who had abandoned him when the darkest hours comes.
When is Lama Osel going back to FPMT? Lama Zopa is quite old now and after his stroke, he does not look so well. At his age, he should retire and stop travelling.
At the moment, Lama Zopa seems to be the only highly qualified and famous lama in FPMT. There is no other teacher in FPMT as famous as he is. If Lama Zopa and the Dalai Lama pass away, what would happen to FPMT if Lama Osel does not want to go back to lead the center?
The students should realise that there should always be a highly qualified teacher in the center especially for an organisation as big as FPMT. They should quickly repair their samaya with Lama Osel to create the cause and generate merits to have him back. Lama Osel's previous life was a great teacher, if the condition is conducive, I believe he can also be as successful as his previous life even though he has disrobed now.
I wonder what is the plan of FPMT when Lama Zopa is not around anymore. At the moment, Lama Zopa is the only 'brand' FPMT has to attract sponsors and students. No other lama in FPMT has a reputation comparable to Lama Zopa.
The only way FPMT can maintain its reputation, sponsors and students will be the coming back of Lama Osel, whose previous life founded FPMT. Unfortunately, due to the broken Samaya of the students, Lama Osel chose to disrobe and live as a layperson. He is not so much involved in the teaching scene.
However, if the students repair their Samaya with Lama Osel and create harmony in their center, there is a chance Lama Osel will still come back to FPMT and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma. The first thing FPMT has to do is to stop discriminating Dorje Shugden practitioners and stop spreading false negative news about Dorje Shugden. They should always remember the manifestation of FPMT is through the assistance and blessings of Dorje Shugden.
However, they tend to forget that their founder, Lama Yeshe is a huge Dorje Shugden practitioners and he is unfit to be worshipped since he is a spirit worshipper which is against the law of Lord Buddha. Not to mention that all their teachings that they got including the vows of those ordained people came from this spirit worshipping lama.
If that is the case, then all of their dharma and vows will be invalid and they need to get them from a proper lama again. But obviously, they do not want to do that because the whole FPMT will be in a deep mess since everything they have will be invalidated.
Those who give up Dorje Shugden practice just want an easy life and be in the good book of the Dalai Lama. What they have studied in the monastery or from their teacher, they don't remember or practice it. Guru devotion is fundamental in Vajrayana practice but yet people or organisation like FPMT betrayed their teacher.
The students in FPMT conveniently agree with the CTA that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, but they have forgotten their founder, Lama Yeshe was a strong practitioner of Dorje Shugden and he was very devoted to Dorje Shugden. Dorje Shugden has assisted him in establishing the centre and everything that he needed to spread Dharma. The students in FPMT are very ungrateful, they despise Dorje Shugden but at the same time using the resources provided by Dorje Shugden.
If Dorje Shugden practitioners will all go the hell and never be able to come back in a human form, how come FPMT is able to find the reincarnation of Lama Yeshe? Shouldn't Lama Yeshe be born in hell already? Or Lama Osel is not the reincarnation of Lama Yeshe but someone else? Time for the students in FPMT to wake up and face the reality!
The Dorje Shugden ban really reveals who is the real practitioner and who is not. It is quite shocking to know so many monks who have learned Buddhism for years do not understand what guru devotion is. Or perhaps it is because we are in the denegerate time that most people don't have the wisdom to understand what guru devotion is.
Lama Yeshe was a very attained Buddhist master, he was one of the pioneers who went to the west to spread Dharma. Most of his bigger sponsors were also westerners. It was a pity Lama Yeshe passed away at such a young age, perhaps his students didn't have enough merits to keep him with them. The students had the chance to have Lama Yeshe's reincarnation back in the centre again but they lost the chance by breaking their Samaya with their lama when they gave up Dorje Shugden practice.
So what is the point of putting up a Lama Yeshe's statue and venerating the statue when they cannot even convince the reincarnation to come back as the spiritual head in FPMT? Unless they think Lama Osel is not the real incarnation of their teacher? A real person can give instruction and advice, why are the students not trying to get Lama Osel back? If Lama Zopa is not around anymore, who is going to lead FPMT and be the spokesperson of the centre to raise fund?
FPMT is a very bad example of a Vajrayana student. As mentioned in the 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion, all attainment comes from our guru. Therefore, we have to follow the instructions of our guru and never go against it. That includes not giving up the practice given to us by our guru.
As everyone knows Lama Yeshe was a very devoted Dorje Shugden practitioner. He propitiated Dorje Shugden regularly. Whenever he needs help, he would also ask Dorje Shugden for help. The manifestation of Kopan Monastery was mainly due to Dorje Shugden's kind assistance.
Unfortunately, after Lama Yeshe passed away, students in FMPT chose to give up Dorje Shugden practice just to be politically correct and be in the good book of the Dalai Lama. They have forgotten the kindness of their guru. It is very hypocritical of them to keep the statue of Lama Yeshe on the shrine and then gave up the precious practice given to them by Lama Yeshe.
Actually its good question!
Lama Yeshe which is the founder of FPMT and also practices Dorje Shugden.
But after his passing, his successor follows the Dalai Lama instruction instead of holding strong and just follow Lama Yeshe. Since they have broken the Samaya with their Guru what is the point of having the statue of their Guru where I doubt there will be any blessing. Since there will be no blessing from the Guru,
how would they do their sadhana? no blessing from the lineage master? if really no, then what is the point of learning from the center without the blessing from the lineage master?