About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Harold Musetescu on June 27, 2016, 09:00:57 AM

Title: Was the previous Lamo Tsangpa Oracle corrupt?
Post by: Harold Musetescu on June 27, 2016, 09:00:57 AM
The Lamo Tsangpa Oracle holds the third highest position in the world of Tibetan State Oracles. The  Lamo Tsangpa Oracle's position is a family held position that is passed from father to son. It is called "Lamo" since the original Oracle came from "Lamo" monastery in Tibet.

The previous Lamo Tsangpa was Tsewang Namgyal who held this position from 1986 until his death in 2003. He was official enthroned by the 14th Dalai Lama to this position in 1986. Originally the same problem with the Gadong Oracle existed with the Lamo Tsangpa Oracle in 1986. The Lamo Tsangpa Oracle did not "Speak" while in trance. In the DVD titled "Oracles - Reflections of Self" it clearly showed that the Lamo Tsangpa Oracle originally did not speak. Go to the 29:30 minute mark and you will be both the Gadong Oracle and the eldest son of Tsewang Namgyal both state that he did not originally speak. Even the producer of the film states this fact on numerous occasions.

This is now twice the 14th Dalai Lama chose a State Oracle that did not speak. The Gadong Oracle from 1987 until his death in 2015 (29 years) never spoke. Tsem Rinpoche did an excellent piece on youtube about Oracles titled "Taking Trances". He tells us of how a candidate is first chosen, the numerous retreats he must take and the testing done to prove that a proper Deity and not a demon has entered the candidate. Only after you successfully pass all these tests does the Lama that is testing you declare in an official certificate that you are an "Oracle". When the Dalai Lama enthroned Tsewang Namgyal in 1986 it appears he would have "Failed" a proper test by a Lama.

I do not believe that the dharmapala "Tsangpa Karpo" ever entered Tsewang Namgyal. That he was a "PAIDED" puppet of the 14th Dalai Lama. You can check this out on this very website by typing "Very good commentary by TK" into the search box. You will find an article written on February 2010 about two official announcements done in 1995 by the Lamo Tsangpo Oracle condemning Dorje Shugden. The first announcement was done on May 14, 1995 at the request of the "Private Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama". The second announcement was done on June 14, 1995 at the request of the Cabinet of the "Tibetan Government in Exile". Both these announcements were anti Dorje Shugden and were done a mere year before the official "BAN" on the practice of Dorje Shugden.

I do not believe that these trances were real but FAKED. You may know that "Tsangpa Karpo" is a dharmapala but you may not know that he is the peaceful emanation of "Setrap". Yes that's correct, "Setrap" is the wrathful emanation of "Trangpa Karpo". It was "Setrap" who saved Dorje Shugden from death from Mindrolling Rinpoche's  "Fire Puja". It was also "Setrap" who guided Dorje Shugden to Sakya Trizin who enthroned him as a dharmapala. Sakya Trizin made Dorje Shugden a member of the "Gyalpo Sum" the three "King Spirits" that includes Setrap and Kache Marpo. So could someone explain to me how the wrathful emanation of "Tsangpa Karpo", Setrap saves Dorje Shugden only to have the Oracle of the peaceful emanation of "Condemn" him? It is not logical and I believe it can only mean one thing and these were totally faked trances.

Tsewang Namgyal came to India from Tibet in 1986. While growing up in Tibet he worked as a musician for the Chinese government until he retired. He came to India with this family on holidays (?) in 1986 and at the request from the Dalai Lama he did not return. He remained in India and became a refugee. He gave up his state pension and his home and belongs in China. He was now penny less with a wife and family to feed. How was he to feed and cloth his family? That was easy, the Dalai Lama and the then Tibetan Government in Exile made him a "Paid Employee". He was now the "Lamo Tsangpa" Oracle with all the rights and privileges that go with the title of "State Oracle". As long as he continued to please the Dalai Lama he would be a State Oracle and if did not please the Dalai Lama he would be FIRED. As long as the Lamo Tsangpa Oracle was anti Dorje Shugden he would continue to be in the employ of the Dalai Lama. Remember that State Oracles are in the employment of the Dalai Lama and in the past they were dismissed by the Dalai Lama if they displeased him. What would have happen to Tsewang Namgyal if say in 1995 he went into trance and announced that Dorje Shugden was in fact an enlightened being and that the Dalai Lama was wrong in his view of him? The answer is very simple the 14th Dalai Lama would have FIRED HIM. No more job and no more money you are now financial destroyed. Also Tsewang Namgyal's eldest son now has a great job as the personal photographer of the Dalai Lama.

Since his death in 2003 the dharmapala "Tsangpa Karpo" has not chosen any of Tsewang Namgyal's four sons as the next Lamo Tsangpa Oracle. WHY? I believe that the Tsangpa Karpo does not believe any of them are truly worthy of this position. The SINS OF THE FATHER are now visited upon the sons. As I have stated I believe that Tsewang Namgyal totally faked his trances and that "Tsangpa Karpo" never once entered him in his entire life. That is why when he was enthroned by the Dalai Lama in 1986 he never "Spoke". I believe that he was just like the Nechung and Tseringma Oracles, just "PAIDED PUPPET ORACLES" for the 14th Dalai Lama. If the Dalai Lama tells them that Dorje Shugden is evil then just like good puppets they announce that Dorje Shugden is evil. No more and no else. If they don't agree with the Dalai Lama they know that they will be FIRED and they will no longer have their "Job for life" as a State Oracle". I believe that the dharmapala Tsangpa Karpo could see into the future and knew what was in the heart of Tsewang Namgyal and that is why he never entered him.

So lets see what we have. The Nechung,Lamo Tsangpa and Tseringma Oracles are all paid puppets of the Dalai Lama and the Gadong Oracle never spoke in 29 years. Yet we are to believe that these four are all proper Oracles who have be properly enthroned by the 14th Dalai Lama.

I don't believe that for one second. DO YOU?
Title: Re: Was the previous Lamo Tsangpa Oracle corrupt?
Post by: Rowntree on July 02, 2016, 05:48:30 PM
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Does this mean that Tsewang Namgyal received a very good offer that made him chose to stay in India at the Dalai Lama's request, willingly become a refugee and put his family in such dire situation? From another perspective, the Tsangpa and Gadong deity both could be disappointed with the CTA and decided not to speak during trance. It could be that the impure Samaya of the oracles, including that of the Nechung oracle, has caused other spirit took possession of them instead.

It is very strange also that the Dalai Lama allowed other beings entered the State oracles. In the case of the Nechung oracle, one can tell easily whether Pehar really enters into the Nechung oracle. If Pehar enters, one can tell his breath has alcohol smell, the bell on his head will tingle and there's a huge mark of a vajra on the oracle's forehead. All those people assisting the oracle close proximity can also tell. Can't there?
Title: Re: Was the previous Lamo Tsangpa Oracle corrupt?
Post by: Harold Musetescu on July 02, 2016, 06:54:04 PM
Hello Rowntree

What I found interesting about the previous Gadong Oracle was that for 29 years he was the second highest State Oracle but NEVER ONCE TOOK TRANCE of Shenjachen. How do you keep a job for 29 years and fail every day at that job. You are either a total failure at your job and should be fired or something else was at play. By keeping Tenzin Wangdak as the Gadong Oracle the Dalai Lama did not fear this Oracle would suddenly condemn him for his BAN against Dorje Shugden. In this case Tenzin Wangdak's "silence" was bliss for the 14th Dalai Lama. Why did the 14th Dalai Lama not fire the Gadong Oracle at some  point during his 29 year reign as the second highest State Oracle? Why did the Dalai Lama not replace him with a true functional Oracle? Why did the Dalai Lama pick him when he could not place one simple test prior to his enthronement?

I do not think that the Lamo Tsangpa Oracle was possessed by another spirit. I think he just FAKED IT in exchange for money, possessions and status. Lamo Tsangpa in 1995 supposedly went into trance twice and condemned Dorje Shugden. The first was May 14,1995 for the "Private Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama". The second was on June 14, 1995 for the CTA. So Lamo Tsangpa did speak to the CTA which goes against your statement that "the tsangpa....could be disappointed with the CTA and decided not to speak during trance.". The fact that since 2003 the Dharmapala Tsangpa Karpo has not chosen any of the late Lamo Tsangpa's four sons as his next Oracle speaks volumes on this matter.
Title: Re: Was the previous Lamo Tsangpa Oracle corrupt?
Post by: Rowntree on July 05, 2016, 03:53:39 AM
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It is interesting if the Dalai Lama indeed did allow Tsewang Namgyal to fake his trance. I can understand if the CTA allows it, but the Dalai Lama? I mean, he can see through that for sure and this could raise eyebrows if it is true.

The one possessed by a spirit is said to be the Nechung oracle. This again made people wonder why the Dalai Lama let this happen. I can't seem to find any logical explanation behind it and it is testing my faith in the oracular system and the power of the enlightened beings, in this case, the Avalokiteshvara.

How do you find a balance between your faith (assuming you are a Buddhist practitioner) and these mundane looking tactics, Harold?
Title: Re: Was the previous Lamo Tsangpa Oracle corrupt?
Post by: Harold Musetescu on July 05, 2016, 09:36:20 AM
My FAITH is with the Buddha and his Dharma.
Just because the CORPORATION says the Dalai Lama is enlightened doesn't make it so.
Did you read my article on the 5th Dalai Lama and his HUMAN SACRIFICES?
How do you square the 14th Dalai Lama working for the CIA and running a 2000 man mercenary army with ENLIGHTENED ACTIVITIES?
Would a real BUDDHA OF COMPASSION create a BAN?
Show me where in the previous HISTORY of Tibetan Buddhism some one has BANNED ANY PRACTICE OTHER THAN THE DALAI LAMA.
So Rowntree please continue to believe in the Buddha and his Dharma. Just be very careful of the CORPORATE SANGHA. THEY MAY JUST BE CORPORATE WOLVES IN LAMA'S CLOTHING.