dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on December 15, 2014, 12:34:44 AM
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I am sure there will be the perennial accusation that Shugden practitioners are China spies from the latest news below. One-and-a-half years in jail is rather stiff for what the elderly Jamyang Tsering is accused of, but it is very consistent with the Chinese authorities' reaction to anything pro-Dalai Lama.
However, I believe that the Chinese reaction is about the political Dalai Lama/Tibet issue rather than any desire to preserve the Dorje Shugden practice. Since the Dalai Lama has condemned Dorje Shugden, the Chinese authorities have simply adopted the opposing view. I don't see any notable Chinese personalities being loud and proud about Dorje Shugden practice, nor do I see any public temples/statues of Dorje Shugden in China itself (excluding Tibet). Have you?
What do you think?
Elderly Tibetan is Jailed for Discouraging Worship of Controversial Deity
http://www.indiagazette.com/index.php/sid/228496791 (http://www.indiagazette.com/index.php/sid/228496791)
RFA Saturday 13th December, 2014
(http://www.indiagazette.com/photo_story/uni1418440643.jpg)
An elderly Tibetan man has been ordered jailed by Chinese authorities for advising a group of Tibetan students to abide by the Dalai Lama's call not to participate in a controversial form of worship deemed "divisive" by the exiled spiritual leader, sources said.
Jamyang Tsering, 77, was handed a one-and-a-half year term in early December by a court in Dzogang (in Chinese, Zuogong) county in the Chamdo (Changdu) prefecture of China's Tibet Autonomous Region, a local source told RFA's Tibetan Service.
"He is currently being held in the Dzogang detention center pending transfer to a jail in Chamdo," RFA's source said, speaking on condition of anonymity.
"His relatives are worried about his health, which is said to be not good," the source said, adding that Tsering suffers from abdominal disorders, diabetes, and high blood pressure, among other ailments.
"He himself says he has done nothing wrong and has no regrets. His only concern is for his wife, who is 86 and was left behind in [the regional capital] Lhasa after he was detained," he said.
Tsering, a native of Chamdo, was taken into custody in early June after encouraging a group of Chamdo-area students visiting Lhasa to follow the wishes and guidance of the Dalai Lama and to always "hold to their pride in being Tibetan," the source said.
"He had also advised as many people as possible in local gatherings not to worship Shugden," a Tibetan "protector" deity whose rituals have been denounced by the Dalai Lama as divisive and sectarian, he said.
Chinese police frequently investigate and arrest Tibetans deemed to have responded to the policy directives of the India-based Dalai Lama, whom Beijing considers a dangerous separatist bent on "splitting" Tibet from Chinese control.
'Religious differences'
Earlier this year, a young Tibetan stabbed himself to death when police attempted to detain him in Chamdo's Markham (Mangkang) county over the destruction of a Shugden statue six years ago, sources told RFA in an earlier report.
Tashi Tsering, a 28-year-old layman, had joined together with at least eight monks of Chamdo's Khenpaluk monastery in 2008 to destroy the statue of the deity after the Dalai Lama urged Tibetans to abandon its worship, one source said.
When the Dalai Lama in 2008 publicly criticized Shugden worship as damaging to harmony among Tibetans, Khenpaluk monastery was the first religious establishment in the area to ban the practice, the source said.
"Some monks of Khenpaluk then volunteered to dismantle the statue," which had been installed by a private sponsor, he said.
Chamdo police in April issued a set of regulations including a ban on "creating differences" among religious believers and using language that appeared to be "aimed primarily at opponents or critics of the Shugden practice," Columbia University Tibet scholar Robbie Barnett told RFA in an e-mail on Friday.
"From the perspective of the Chinese, they have a responsibility to prevent violence and conflict over this, as with any other contentious issue among Tibetans," Barnett said.
"However, the Chinese authorities have published numerous statements attacking the Dalai Lama on the Shugden issue both in Tibet and internationally," he said.
"So they are widely perceived within Tibet as favoring the pro-Shugden side in this dispute."
Copyright 1998-2014, RFA. Published with the permission of Radio Free Asia, 2025 M St. NW, Suite 300, Washington DC 20036
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Another innocent and ignorant person that had gotten himself an unnecessary imprisonment at such an old age! He may be devoted to Dalai Lama but Dalai Lama will not be able to stop the Chinese authorities from detaining him! Jamyang Tsering had committed heavy negative karma for his negative actions which include forsaking and spreading wrong views about Dorje Shugden and causing schism within the Buddhist practitioners. Imprisonment of one and a half years may be the initial repercussion. More heavier repercussions are awaiting him upon his death! Can Dalai Lama or CTA be really concerned about the negative effects of the ban on Dorje Shugden? Lift the ban quickly before more innocent and ignorant Tibetans commit heavy negative actions.
I do agree with you WisdomBeing that it is more a political game that the Chinese government is playing than its actual acceptance of the Dorje Shugden practice after all the Chinese Government is a Communist and not a Buddhist!
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Never thought I would say this. Kudos to the Chinese authorities; not because of my pro Shugden believe which is fact is pro truth rather than pro-deity. In buddhism, truth is supreme and all that is in the Dharma is the truth and upon investigation I find Shugden to be an enlightened being; for me at least. So for me no issue.
If we analyse the "edict" given by the Dalai Lama on the Protector, the basis is that the Protector is a spirit; that is not true; that the practice endanger His life; again cannot be true and harm the cause of Tibet; again cannot be true as any spirit however powerful cannot harm any one or country is there is no karma for it.
Back to the article on the elderly Tibetan jailed by the Chinese authorities. Any country in the world will not tolerate disharmony and chaos. China has especially been very strict about any issue they think will cause a threat to the peace and harmony of its citizens and threat to its rule. So it is nothing surprising actually for this to happen. It is news because to us anything related to Protector has become big news because of the ban. So perhaps the ban has some positive effect because China is pro Shugden. And going back to what I expressed about the truth. So China is Pro Truth ie pro Dharma! I rejoice for China.
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Back to the article on the elderly Tibetan jailed by the Chinese authorities. Any country in the world will not tolerate disharmony and chaos. China has especially been very strict about any issue they think will cause a threat to the peace and harmony of its citizens and threat to its rule. So it is nothing surprising actually for this to happen. It is news because to us anything related to Protector has become big news because of the ban. So perhaps the ban has some positive effect because China is pro Shugden.
Yonten Jamyang,
You hit the nail on the had. As far as the Chinese is concerned, they will put a stop to anything that threatens the harmony of the people (Tibetans and Chinese alike). The Shugden ban has severely split the Tibetan community in exile and has the same incendiary potential for Tibetans in the Tibet Autonomous Region. However, I am certain that Shugden haters will use this to accuse Shugden worshippers of being Chinese agents or sympathisers.
The Dalai Lama could so easily put a stop to this unhealthy division but instead the CTAhas passed resolutions to make it a crime to be a Shugden worshipper and have made public calls for Tibetans to oppose Shugden worshippers as a show of their loyalty to the Dalai Lama.
Strange that when the CTA and Dalai Lama politcise the Shugden issues, they get innocent people involved in politics that in the end brings more harm than good.
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From this article, it is obvious that the division and segregation from the ban on the worship of Dorje Shugden can hurt either way depending on where you are and what you are doing with this ridiculous decree from the Dalai Lama.
I feel sad that anyone should suffer due to curbing of human rights, even with Jamyang Tersing who is elderly and probably frail who had advocated against Dorje Shugden.
May the Dalai Lama comprehend the absurdity of this Ban and as a emanation of Chenrezig (one of ultimate compassion) will lift the ban immediately to cease the suffering of mankind.
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Of course it is not religiously motivated when China implements the stringent ruling. Can you imagine what will happen to the huge populace of China without its stringent rule? Dalai Lama's lies can cause great dissension, disharmony and riots exponentially. Remember there were murders to threaten Shugden Buddhists. Surely it is wise to keep it in check and in tight controls. I respect China for her decision.
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This elderly Tibetan, native of Chamdo, was taken into custody in early June after he was seen encouraging a group of Chamdo-area students, visiting Lhasa, "to follow the wishes and guidance of the Dalai Lama" and discouraging them from practicing Shugden.
What is obvious is that this is not about the Chinese becoming Shugden devotees overnight, as a result of being convinced by Shugden followers. On the contrary, what the Chinese have done here is very much in keeping with their avowed aim of doing everything in the opposite direction of the Dalai Lama's actions and aspirations.
It is clearly evident that Tsering is one of hundreds or thousands of Tibetans, who follow the words of the Dalai Lama without hesitation, and hang on his every word as if it were an instruction from a living God-king. That is how they and generations of Tibetans before them have come to regard the Dalai Lama. What this portents is Dalai Lama, exploiting their unswerving loyalty and blind faith,is making them into his mouthpieces to the Tibetan public, who have respect for these elderly people who are steeped in Tibetan tradition(but unfortunately lacking in the knowledge of Dharma).
What is sad is that this bodes ill even for these poor elderly folk, with their simple minds and trusting natures. They are being sold the lie that Dorje Shugden is a spirit, and remain in complete ignorance of the Truth- that the Protector is a fully enlightened Buddha who will lead them and guide them on the Dharma path to peace and happiness for this and future lives.
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The elderly fanatic was promoting religious hatred and intolerance. China does well neutralizing such criminal activities, and sets a beautiful example for India and Western countries, who tolerate the activities of kindred criminals, such as the evil dalai and his minions.
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Chinese view the Dalai Lama as a dangerous heretic with considerable political influence able to stir up discontent within China’s borders. It is only prudent China set such heretic in control.
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i can understand why China jail this elder. we must understand China has gone through the Fa Lung Gong incident which makes them realise the power of religion, as the religion head can instigate their followers to do almost anything. Even though it has been many years since the Fa Lung Gong incident, it still haunt the China government. That is also why China is very much against HH Dalai Lama, not because of His spiritual leader status, but because of His political leader status.
also, i don't agree with the act of this elder. he may not like the practice of Dorje Shugden, but he should not discourage others from practicing. His act is exactly the same as CTA (or may be that is the result of the CTA's policy?).
however, i don't agree with this act of jailing the elder. Discouraging the practice of Dorje Shugden should not bring any benefit to Tibetan independence in any way.
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Sigh ! Another innocent and ignorant life put in jail over this controversy of banning Dorje Shugden. Plus the poor wife of 86yrs worrying from home over her husband's survival in jail and her own livelihood too. So much suffering is continuously manifesting from this ban; the BAN MUST COME DOWN !
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I feel so much sympathy for the elderly Jamyang Tsering. At his old age and many health issues, he should be spending his days in his own home with members of families. Now he is suffering in a Chinese jail together with some hardcore criminals, far away from home and worrying of his wife. I am sure the prison wardens are not going to treat him with any care or kindness even though he is old and frail. This incident would not happen if there was no ban on the Shugden practice. Looks like the illogical ban is also affecting non-Shugden believers.
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I feel so much sympathy for the elderly Jamyang Tsering.
I share your sympathy for him and for every other criminal. This is the very nature of being a Buddhist.
However, the elderly criminal felt no sympathy for those persecuted because of their religious beliefs, and even tried to increase their sufferings, promoting the evil dalai's witch-hunt.
Fortunately the Chinese authorities timely stopped his fanatical, harmful behavior, and gave him an opportunity to reeducate himself about respecting others' religious beliefs.
At his old age and many health issues, he should be spending his days in his own home with members of families.
The elderly criminal is surely much better off than many innocent people punished by previous evil dalais, such as the 13th, people such as those who had their eyes plucked, or who were skinned alive, or died under the most unspeakable tortures in the dark prisons of the Potala hell.
This is by the way precisely what would be happening to Dorje Shugden followers if only the evil criminal dalai were in power in Tibet, and this is what the elderly fanatical criminal Jamyang Tsering was brazenly promoting until he was caught red-handed by the Chinese authorities.
Now he is suffering in a Chinese jail together with some hardcore criminals, far away from home and worrying of his wife.
The elderly criminal *is* himself a hardcore criminal, and Chinese jails are surely much better than the horror torture chambers of the toppled evil dalai's Potala hell.
Just in order to refresh the memory of those always eager to demonize the Chinese, and to see any kind of “purity” in the scum which was removed from power by those very same Chinese, here follow some pictures of old days Tibetan prisons.
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Here are the pictures mentioned above.
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I won't say the Chinese is pro-Shugden. They are opposed to Dalai Lama follower who threaten the peace of the Tibetan region. In terms of religious freedom no one should advise others from giving up their religious practice. Many Tibetans have been doing this practice before the ban started. Those who are following gurus instructions we should not talk in ways that cause them to abandon their practice. It breaks the samaya of guru and disciples. At the same time the Chinese could have given a stern warning instead of using such a drastic measure of jailing the elderly man.
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However, the elderly criminal felt no sympathy for those persecuted because of their religious beliefs, and even tried to increase their sufferings, promoting the evil dalai's witch-hunt.
Fortunately the Chinese authorities timely stopped his fanatical, harmful behavior, and gave him an opportunity to reeducate himself about respecting others' religious beliefs.
Matibhadra, which is exactly what I am pointing at. If there was no ban on the Shugden practice at all, Jamyang Tsering would have no need to discourage anyone on the practice. One can be worshippers of any kind of spirits and no one would even bat an eyelid. And this incident of landing in the torturous jail would be decrease. I am not taking sides of any parties but anyone who goes against the ruling government must be prepared to face the consequences.
With my obscured view and shallow mind, I am in no position to comment on the actions of HHDL, but only with the wish for His Holiness to lift the ban soon. The protector have shown enough signs that all the claims against worshipping Him have been untrue.
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The ban has caused lots of suffering to both pro Dalai Lama and pro Shugden. If Dalai Lama has been kind enough to lift the ban, the world will be much more peaceful. Both side can spend more time doing their practice and do it in peace. Lift the ban NOW.
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If there was no ban on the Shugden practice at all, Jamyang Tsering wunderould have no need to discourage anyone on the practice.
No one “needs” to promote a witch-hunt. The elderly Jamyang Tsering did so because he holds perverted, criminal views, under the influence of his mastermind, the evil dalai.
And this incident of landing in the torturous jail would be decrease.
You are more likely to find “the torturous jail” in US, “the land of the free”, where many naive, deceived, if not idiotic Tibetans think there is such thing as “human rights”.
Or try US administered jails such as Guantanamo or Abu Ghraib. Here is a list of torture techniques routinely adopted in Guantanamo with presidential approval (http://thejusticecampaign.org/?page_id=273 (http://thejusticecampaign.org/?page_id=273)):
1. Sexual Assault/Humiliation
2. Sleep Deprivation
3. Sensory Deprivation
4. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
5. Mock Executions
6. Forced Medication
7. Use of Dogs to Scare Detainees
8. Temperature Extremes
9. Sensory Bombardment (Noise)
10. Watching Others Being Tortured
11. Psychological Techniques
Meanwhile, and since one picture speaks louder than one thousand words, below follow some pictures of infamous US-managed Abu Ghraib prison:
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While China is criticized for sending to prison a 70 years old criminal guilty of promoting an obnoxious witch-hunt mentored by a Western sponsored terrorist, the evil dalai, just look at whom is handcuffed and shackled in the so-called “Home of the Brave, Land of the Free”:
Virginia police handcuff, shackle 4-year-old boy with ADD
A four-year-old boy was handcuffed and shackled at Nathanael Greene Primary School after he threw a tantrum and hit his principal.
Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:6PM GMT
The boy was arrested at Nathanael Greene Primary School after he allegedly threw blocks, climbed over desks, hit and kicked the principal and the director of special education, WVTF reports.
Instead of calling the child’s parents, authorities at school called a sheriff’s deputy assigned to the schools, who then hauled the handcuffed boy to the sheriff’s office.
“The boy was out of control, basically, throwing his arms around and kicking– trying to kick the deputy, trying to run away, and the deputy felt that putting the handcuffs on him was for his safety as well as everybody else’s,” County Sheriff Steven Smith claimed.
The boy’s mother, Tracy Wood, was notified after the encounter had taken place and arrived at school soon afterwards.
"When you call a parent to get their child, when they get to the school, you expect the child to be there-- especially when you arrive in a timely manner," the surprised mother said.
The principal told Mrs. Wood that her son was transported to the sheriff’s office. She rushed there to calm the distressed boy only to find that his legs were in shackles.
"My son is a very loving, caring, protective little boy. He deserves to go to school and feel safe and know that he'll come back home to his mommy. He won't be carted off like a criminal," she said.
Charlottesville psychologist Jeffrey Fracher said the use of shackles and handcuffs on a child could have long-term consequences. “I can't imagine any scenario where it would be appropriate to handcuff a child that young.”
http://presstv.com/detail/2014/12/25/391778/us-cops-handcuff-shackle-4yearold/ (http://presstv.com/detail/2014/12/25/391778/us-cops-handcuff-shackle-4yearold/)
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And while we are still on the topic, just look at how elderly, even 81 years-old people, are sent to prison in Western countries who boast of being “democratic” and “respectful of human rights”.
And they are sent to prison not because of severely criminal conduct such as promoting witch-hunts and social rifts (as it was the case with 70 years old Jamyang Tsering), but simply because of not giving money to private bankers and to murderous aggression wars such as in Afghanistan (the destination of your taxes in most Western countries).
This is the case with the 81 years-old illustrious soprano Monserrat Caballé, who was extorted by the Spanish state to pay a quarter of a million of euros in order to avoid two years in jail for failing to contribute to such wicked endeavors.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/23/uk-spain-tax-caballe-idUKKBN0K11IP20141223 (http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/12/23/uk-spain-tax-caballe-idUKKBN0K11IP20141223)
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Religious freedom must be preserved in Tibet I commend the chinese authorities for making sure that those who engage in divisive sectarian activities are re-educated. The Dalai Lama is poisoning the minds of Tibetans who follow him, causing them to self-immolated, become religiously intolerant and violently nationalistic. These are not the actions of a Buddhist monk and these are not productive mind sets for the population to follow.
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I do agree with what Wisdom Being said the chinese people do not seem to be so religious i have been in China in the who;e journey I never see any temple or holy place and the local people are so worldly non of them talk about religion. This innocent man again is the victims of the ban he do not know really what happen he just blindly follow instruction only poor old man.
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However, I believe that the Chinese reaction is about the political Dalai Lama/Tibet issue rather than any desire to preserve the Dorje Shugden practice.
Irrespectively of any personal interest shown by any Chinese authority in the practice of Dorje Shugden, the Chinese government does not want a region controlled by fanatic, witch-hunting Western sponsored terrorists, be they Muslims in Xinjiang or Dalaite in Tibetan areas.
Therefore, the Chinese government does what any responsible government should do: it protects religious freedom, and therefore the persecuted practice of Dorje Shugden. The same cannot be said of the Indian government, an accomplice by omission of the evil dalai.
Since the Dalai Lama has condemned Dorje Shugden, the Chinese authorities have simply adopted the opposing view.
This sounds rather simplistic. It is not about merely opposing the evil dalai, but about opposing the evil dalai's sectarian fanaticism, aimed at causing religious and social rifts, and ultimately the chaos so much desired by the evil dalai's Western bosses, just as in the Middle East.
I don't see any notable Chinese personalities being loud and proud about Dorje Shugden practice, nor do I see any public temples/statues of Dorje Shugden in China itself (excluding Tibet). Have you?
This is irrelevant. What is at stake are not the religious preferences of any Chine notable personality, but the stability and integrity of the country, and thus the need to counter the evil dalai's attempts to bring the chaos to Tibetan areas through sectarian hatred and fanaticism.
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I do agree with what Wisdom Being said the chinese people do not seem to be so religious i have been in China in the who;e journey I never see any temple or holy place and the local people are so worldly non of them talk about religion.
Maybe you ask your money back from your tourist guide.
China abounds in temples and holy sites, temples are almost permanently flooded with devout Chinese, and millions of Chinese are devoutly religious and frequent temple-goers. Besides, they show much more respect and devotion while in temples and shrines than many Westerners, often debauched and disrespectful in their behavior.
Anyway, your misinformed remark about the religiosity of the Chinese people thoroughly misses the point, because what is at stake is not the intensity of the religious inclination of the Chinese people, but the firm attitude of the Chinese government when it comes to fight the instigation of religious fanaticism and sectarian witch-hunts.
This innocent man again is the victims of the ban he do not know really what happen he just blindly follow instruction only poor old man.
A fanaticized poor old witch-hunter and violator of human rights, who belongs in the jail, until he is reeducated.