dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on February 15, 2013, 08:10:55 AM
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I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.
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Kate, this is shocking and so sad to see. That after all this time, there are still signs up like this and in a monastery no less. I said this on facebook: if we call ourselves Buddhists, then shouldn't we be all the more kind to people who we perceive to be enemies or perceive to be difficult? Instead of shunning them and turning them away, we should be all the more kind to them to help them get back on a 'correct' path.
Why is it that we run around saying that we want to help all sentient beings, including spirits and animals of all kinds, but we won't help a fellow human being because he has chosen to do a practice that's different from what we've chosen. Where is the compassion in that? If anyone acts like this and abides by these kinds of "instructions" then they may as well throw out the 8 verses of thought transformation, and any kind of lojong teachings or texts that they own.
I agree with Kate that this is like apartheid. How can we even begin to hope for the 4 immeasurables and equanimity when we cannot even be friends with fellow Buddhists? It has become such a big farce.
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I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.
This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.
I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.
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Thanks for sharing that info, Losang Tenpa. It is so sad that this discrimination is still going on in the Tibetan settlements. Are there still signs condemning Shugden Lamas displayed in public?
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This is extremely saddening to see and learn about. I had been under the impression that things were starting to calm down a bit and that there was a "live and let live" attitude by the majority of people. Especially to hear that people disrespect the sangha jewel out of partisanship and politics by spitting on someone living in the vows simply because they are following their lineage is shocking and sickening.
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I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.
This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.
I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.
Ooh! I remember many years ago a story about the monastery's press printing anti-shugden literature and one of the monastery's concrete victory banner was striked down by lightening. It came crashing onto the ground, harming nothing but shaken many of the monks who saw it as a bad omen. If I am not mistaken, it was Drepung and I also heard that Setrap in a trance at Gaden exclaimed that the accident was his doing as he could not stand the injustice done unto Dorje Shugden. That was what i recollect.
Also, I am not surprise that Drepung has signs like that as they probably heeded their Protector's instructions and advice. Their special protector is Nechung and that's probably why they have such signs up. Perhaps, they might even been advice and encouraged by Nechung himself to the monastery placed under his care.
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I am not sure what to think. I have always thought of monasteries as sanctuaries not centres that practice persecutions, especially when it is a healing centre located on what is supposed to be hallowed grounds. This breaks not only a big handful of monastic codes but also the Hippocratic oath that all medical practitioners have sworn to. And this shows the extent to which the Dorje Shugden ban has caused decay in the moral standards of the Tibetan community creeping even into the sangha.
Such overt discrimination does nothing good for the monastery not Buddhism as a whole, and for this monastery in particular, it would be difficult for the monks and students to understand the concept of Bodhicitta and Equanimity with this discrimination casting a huge shadow over their intended purpose of teaching the Dharma.
Thank you for putting up this picture and post. It's a good reminder than the ban is still in effect and it has just strengthened my resolve to do something about it.
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Losang Tenpa, I'm so sad to hear of the discrimination you've faced, from lay people no less! I'm so sorry you have had to go through all this. It is so brave of you and all the Shar Gaden monks to persevere in your practices in the face of all that you have to face. Thank you for doing this on behalf of all Dorje Shugden practitioners in the world.
What sad times it is that lay people could feel it is their right to spit on a sangha and act with so much hostility towards ordained monks and nuns, and that they are being virtuous and religious by doing this! Isn't it so very sad that all this is happening in religion BECAUSE of a religious ban? The irony of it all baffles me to no end.
How can any religious edict be justified a being acceptable and well, RELIGIOUS, if it encourages the mistreatment of monks, monastic communities to split and violence of any kind?
As sad as it is though, I am glad we are able to talk about it in this space and thank you Kate for posting this up. I think we can never talk about it enough, raise awareness and let that small CTA-controlled Tibetan community know that the world knows of the kind of discrimination they are encouraging and allowing.
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This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.
I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.
It's good to know that you have made friends with the more open minded people there and that the Dalai Lama's ban is slowly fading away. I would not expect it to be gone or lifted immediately, but as time passes and there is no reason for the people to uphold the ban and they do Dorje Shugden anyway, and slowly the ban will melt away. Over the years, the Dalai Lama's influence has waned incredibly and when his influence wanes, so will the ban on Dorje Shugden. How kind the Dalai Lama is to sacrifice is influence and his fame for the sake of Dorje Shugden's rise. The Big Picture is getting clearer now.
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I thought all doctors have to take the Hippocratic Oath to practise medicine ethically and honestly. Is it according to the oath that the doctors deny treatment to Shugden practitioners? Even when at war, medics are compelled to treat the injured enemy and POWs...but I guess thats not the case in the Tibetan settlements.
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I thought all doctors have to take the Hippocratic Oath to practise medicine ethically and honestly. Is it according to the oath that the doctors deny treatment to Shugden practitioners? Even when at war, medics are compelled to treat the injured enemy and POWs...but I guess thats not the case in the Tibetan settlements.
Tibetans are a special breed of people for many reasons, and this is one of the reasons where they can justify negative actions with "But i'm following the Dalai Lama and this is what he would have wanted" and it seems that it is out of selfishness that the ban is put in place, you know, coz people dont want to be against the Dalai Lama as it would mean going to hell and the like. On one hand, their Guru devotion is admirable, but on the other, they seem to think that it is an easy way out from actually practicing and applying the teachings. But there is good news of the ban slowly melting, so there is hope in the near future that such blatant discrimination be lifted.
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I'm just wondering if signs like these are put up in monasteries by the monastery officials themselves, or if they are orders issued by the CTA or secular governing bodies? I would understand the pressures that monasteries would feel from political bodies like the CTA and have to therefore comply to putting something like this even if it is against what they believe or is something that they wouldn't particularly wish to do themselves.
I would be a lot more surprised and saddened if this was something done of the monasteries' own volition though. Why would any monasteries put up signs against other practitioners or practices? That goes against the whole basis of the Buddhist teachings which is to be kind to all sentient beings. If they open their doors to help anyone, including all animals and spirits, then what about fellow human beings? Fellow buddhists? The very Dharma brothers that they might have even studied and grown up with?
Would anyone know what really goes on behind why these signs are put up? and who decides whether to put them up or not?
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Either way, whether instructed or voluntarily placed, the signs are awful and the very antithesis of the inclusiveness and loving kindness of Buddhism. I can just about understand the hostility of lay Buddhists to Dorje Shugden practitioners due to ignorance etc (see http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3179.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=3179.0)) but for discrimination to be so blatantly displaced in a monastic setting is very sad.
As i always try to look on the positive side, i wonder if the sign was deliberately put up to bring attention to the ban. After all, why is it translated to English?? Every monk would be able to read Tibetan (and if they don't, it is unlikely that they would read English either!) so why put the sign in English unless it is to subtly remind westerners that the ban is in place and to please help. Just a thought.
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Ooh! I remember many years ago a story about the monastery's press printing anti-shugden literature and one of the monastery's concrete victory banner was striked down by lightening. It came crashing onto the ground, harming nothing but shaken many of the monks who saw it as a bad omen. If I am not mistaken, it was Drepung and I also heard that Setrap in a trance at Gaden exclaimed that the accident was his doing as he could not stand the injustice done unto Dorje Shugden. That was what i recollect.
Also, I am not surprise that Drepung has signs like that as they probably heeded their Protector's instructions and advice. Their special protector is Nechung and that's probably why they have such signs up. Perhaps, they might even been advice and encouraged by Nechung himself to the monastery placed under his care.
BIG Uncle... I really don't get it... IF Nechung was the one who asked Tulku Dragpa Gyeltsen to rise as the future protector of Je Tsongkhapa'a teachings... why on earth would he advice HHDL and others to ban Dorje Shugden??? It totally does not make any sense at all. Or could it be that it was not Nechung in the first place since there are many other types of Pehars that could take trance in the oracle. If I am not mistaken Nechung has 5 Pehars/Spirits that serves Tibet??? Correct me if I am wrong.
Also how does anyone know that it was really Nechung who told HHDL that Dorje Shugden is wrong and bad? It could have probably be made up as an excuse... how do we really know? And if it was really Nechung, how do we know if it was the same Nechung as the one that requested TDG to become a Dharma Protector, since there are 5 spirits that can enter the oracle to speak. Everything seems so twisted really.
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This was at the clinic of Drepung Loseling. I was with the person who took this photo.
There are also many similar signs at the small shops surrounding Drepung. They have been there for quite a while.
So far I have been refused service twice at local shops. Once was at the Shartse bookshop, where I was actually spit on. The other was at the Jangse shop. The monks working the counter just refuse to serve me. Both of these happened almost a year ago.
I have been in the area for long enough now that most of the locals have seen me around and know I am a monk of Shar Gaden. The encouraging news is that I have become friends with a couple of shop owners who are a bit more open minded.
So sorry to hear this Lobsang Tenpa! Why do you think such a huge Human Rights issue have not been addressed by the Indian Govt or the West? Have you yourself tried writing to the authorities like the UN etc and share your personal experience??? If not, really you should!
I guess those that are open minded, you know they have been forced and it was not their will to put up such signs of discrimination... if they do not put it up, they themselves will probably get in to trouble. I suppose your transformation, you being kinder, more helpful, more forgiving, more generous and more patient would show them that Shugden monks are real practitioners of the Buddhas teachings. From you actions that is real and sincere is where people will be inspired. There is really nothing more meaningful and better then to be a true monk and lead by example :)
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Actually I find it very amusing and yet very petty. I do agree if some serious rules passed down from some sort of great power but we are talking about Tibet where as majority of the people wouldn't care less what is going on. Because of strong faith and religion matters, this has caused them inconveniences and an uproar to have a voice. Maybe this is why overnight Tibet has been the talk of the town. This is like a sign telling you do not entering because you have eaten ice cream before. Well, even if you had I don't think you will turn around and not enter the shop because you require their services. Yes, I understand the consequences upon the sanghas and lay people if they go against the rules. As long as the sign stays, it just doesn't make sense how they can detect people in this way.
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Just to recount another incident that happened this past year:
One of our senior monks, who attends puja every morning, was walking back in the rain to the labrang where he lives one morning when he slipped and fell on the side of the road. As it turns out, there were no other Shar Gaden monks with him to offer assistance.
As monks walked by from other monasteries, he asked for help from them as he could not get up from the muddy ground on his own. He was completely ignored and left in the mud for almost 10 minutes as monks from other monasteries walked by as if he did not exist.
It wasn't until a monk from his labrang came by that he was helped to his feet and led home.
This broke the hearts of many of our monks as this senior monk is loved and admired by literally hundreds of monks from our monastery.
To this senior monk's credit, he holds no anger or bitterness at those who refused to help him. For those that know him, it would be impossible to fathom this monk holding anything but love and compassion in his heart.
As for me, I still see the monk who spit at me from time to time. He often watches me as I walk by the Shartse bookshop on my way to classes. When I look at him, I try to smile, although he has yet to reciprocate. I will keep trying.
Some of the monks I know have suffered unimaginable things due to this ban. Families have been ripped apart, students split from their teachers and Gurus etc..
What I have experienced in just a speck of what others have gone through.
The over-all feeling I get, and this is just my opinion, is that the worst is in the past.
May this be a new dawn rising.
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Losang Tenpa, I have most respect and admiration for you and all the monks in your situation. All of you have chose to continue with DS practice despite all the ill treatments and abuses you are going through. Some of the situations are not even religious based anymore. Yet, you bear no grudges to those who have mistreated you and still have all the love and compassion in your hearts for them. There is so much peace within you and no trace of violence at all. All these reinforces my faith in Dorje Shugden that he is such a compassionate Buddha and not a spirit as claimed by the many people. May all these contribute to the lifting of the ban and everyone can do their practice openly without any discrimination.
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Thank you for sharing your experiences - although I do wish I could be thanking you for something much different than this!
I say thank you because I do think it is important to let people know what is still happening and how the discrimination against Shugdenpas continues to rage. I have seen on other forums and various medias online that anti-shugdenpas maintain this stance that there is no real evidence for discrimination against Shugden practitioners - this is a preposterous and terrible claim that denies every kind of suffering that Shugdenpas have had to endure. I know that many of these wonderful practitioners and lamas in the monasteries will never speak about it nor complain, for they hold no grudges in their heart. But I do think it is important to highlight what is going on - as clear evidence of this abuse of human rights if nothing else, and as evidence to show that the supposed government and secular protector of the Tibetan people (the CTA) are not doing anything to really look after the welfare of all their people equally.
Losang Tenpa, if you have any further visual evidence of what is happening in the monasteries (such as the picture posted on this thread of the sign disallowing entry to Shugdenpas), please do continue to share it here. The world needs to see, plain and simple, what is going on.
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Does that mean animal pets are allowed into the monastery but not Shugdenpas? This is not a question but my thinking aloud that Shugdenpas are treated worse than animals (no disrespect or disdain to animals).
Sheesh!
And to think that Buddhism is about practicing compassion and love but the blatant sign in this monastery says it all. Then there are worse signs, words and actions written, spoken and done by the people in CTA and their cronies.
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thank you for the beautiful update, losang tenpa. It is quite heartening to know how the Shar Ganden monks are not holding any negative emotions against the Ganden Shartse monks who are treating them badly. This shows them the true strength of their Dharma practice. I feel very sorry for the monks who ignored the old monk who slipped and fell -- their negative karma would be immense. I really hope he is recovering well now and he will be okay soon. I can agree that the discrimination is very ugly but all the same, i can say that all of these actions are not necessary and they could have helped him and gone on their way instead of just ignoring him.
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Does that mean animal pets are allowed into the monastery but not Shugdenpas? This is not a question but my thinking aloud that Shugdenpas are treated worse than animals (no disrespect or disdain to animals).
There are elaborate rituals and pujas where beings of the spirit / hungry ghost realm are invited to partake in offerings; there are even very extensive torma offerings made to these spirits and potentially harmful, evil beings. We make offerings to appease them and make them happy, and we advise them, through the puja, to listen to the Buddha and receive Dharma.
But Shugdenpas are turned away from even entering the premises.
Why is it that in almost all prayers, we talk about the wish to benefit all mother sentient beings? At the beginning of the lama chopa, we recite a motivation that "for the sake of all mother sentient beings, I will now engage in the guru puja". But we must exclude Dorje Shugden practitioners, shun them and not help them. How is it Buddhist, or in any accordance of any of our Bodhisattva or Tantric vows, to exclude any being from our prayers and help? This is what is most baffling.
The Dalai Lama himself welcomes people of all religious faiths, aetheists, even satanic worshippers to his talks, teachings, initiations. But Dorje Shugden practitioners must not even enter the same premise of his talks. How this is logical, fair or in accordance with any Buddhist practice is far beyond me.
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There are elaborate rituals and pujas where beings of the spirit / hungry ghost realm are invited to partake in offerings; there are even very extensive torma offerings made to these spirits and potentially harmful, evil beings. We make offerings to appease them and make them happy, and we advise them, through the puja, to listen to the Buddha and receive Dharma.
But Shugdenpas are turned away from even entering the premises.
Why is it that in almost all prayers, we talk about the wish to benefit all mother sentient beings? At the beginning of the lama chopa, we recite a motivation that "for the sake of all mother sentient beings, I will now engage in the guru puja". But we must exclude Dorje Shugden practitioners, shun them and not help them. How is it Buddhist, or in any accordance of any of our Bodhisattva or Tantric vows, to exclude any being from our prayers and help? This is what is most baffling.
The Dalai Lama himself welcomes people of all religious faiths, aetheists, even satanic worshippers to his talks, teachings, initiations. But Dorje Shugden practitioners must not even enter the same premise of his talks. How this is logical, fair or in accordance with any Buddhist practice is far beyond me.
What I do find interesting is that the Dalai Lama has never told anyone to step down on Dorje Shugden practitioners or to alienate them, but it is his followers themselves that do so just so that they can gain the Dalai Lama's favor or to get into his good books (or so they think). What's wrong with just leaving the Dorje Shugden practitioners alone and you yourself dont practice it? That sounds like a very nice solution to things. After all, whether or not who is a Dorje Shugden practitioner is not anyone's business because Dorje Shugden is a tantric practice and there is no reason for others to learn about it.
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What I do find interesting is that the Dalai Lama has never told anyone to step down on Dorje Shugden practitioners or to alienate them, .....
Unfortunately, this is not true. He has specifically ask that they be removed from their monasteries if they do not give up the practice. That, to me, is about as drastic as it gets in terms of alienation.
He has also asked that others not share resources etc....
He was actually very specific and direct on this point. :(
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What I do find interesting is that the Dalai Lama has never told anyone to step down on Dorje Shugden practitioners or to alienate them, .....
Unfortunately, this is not true. He has specifically ask that they be removed from their monasteries if they do not give up the practice. That, to me, is about as drastic as it gets in terms of alienation.
He has also asked that others not share resources etc....
He was actually very specific and direct on this point. :(
Hmm. But to the western media and sources outside of Tibet, he only says that people who practice Dorje Shugden should not come to his teachings. So why is it so different when it is for Dharamsala and when it is for the rest of the world? Dharamsala = be inhumane to Dorje Shugden practioners, rest of the world = just dont practice Dorje Shugden. It's a very baffling inconsistency for Cherenzig, i must say. Although in some way the remove from monasteries part i get, but what i dont get is did the Dalai Lama ever said to react violently to people who do not give up Dorje Shugden?
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I have also seen a sign like this in a temple I went to whilst I visited Asia. Basically, It wrote that if you practise Dorje Shugden, you are not allowed to enter the temple or partake in any of its activities. It was pasted right infront of the main door and it was my first time coming across such a sign.
It's weird how extreme these Buddhist take matters to. As a real practitioner, shouldn't one be all accepting and forgiving. Shouldn't one respect the choices and religion someone else chooses. Ridiculing Dorje Shugden practitioners is exactly the same as ridiculing someone who chooses to believe and follow a different religious faith.. It's unfair isn't it. Would a Shartse monk ridicule someone who is Christian? Of course not! So taking the same analogy, he should not ridicule DS monks too! And best of all..they're both Buddhists.
In today's world, it is sad that occurences such as this is taking place.
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The circumstances concerning how this particular picture was taken are actually a bit ironic. On the day the photo was taken, it was raining very heavy and a friend and I were walking down the road next to the Drepung Loseling Clinic. As we were passing by, a monk sitting on the steps to the clinic waved us over to take shelter with him on the steps of the clinic. It wasn't until we had been standing there for about 15 minutes that we noticed this sign almost directly over our heads. I then asked my friend to discreetly take this picture.
Drepung Loseling is a a bit far from Gaden, at least in terms of normal everyday travel for monks, so none of the monks there seem to know who we are. It is very different near Gaden where everyone has seen us around and knows we are from Shar Gaden.
Anyway, we had a laugh about it. What would the old monk have said if I had indirectly flashed my Shar Gaden I.D. card? Who know, maybe nothing. Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.
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I just saw this sign on facebook and had to share it. Isn't this appalling? It is just like apartheid. I have asked which monastery this was posted at but i haven't yet received a reply. I'll update this thread if/when I get more information. So for those people who say that there is no issue about Dorje Shugden practitioners, please take a good look at this sign.
The circumstances concerning how this particular picture was taken are actually a bit ironic. On the day the photo was taken, it was raining very heavy and a friend and I were walking down the road next to the Drepung Loseling Clinic. As we were passing by, a monk sitting on the steps to the clinic waved us over to take shelter with him on the steps of the clinic. It wasn't until we had been standing there for about 15 minutes that we noticed this sign almost directly over our heads. I then asked my friend to discreetly take this picture.
Drepung Loseling is a a bit far from Gaden, at least in terms of normal everyday travel for monks, so none of the monks there seem to know who we are. It is very different near Gaden where everyone has seen us around and knows we are from Shar Gaden.
Anyway, we had a laugh about it. What would the old monk have said if I had indirectly flashed my Shar Gaden I.D. card? Who know, maybe nothing. Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.
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Just to recount another incident that happened this past year:
One of our senior monks, who attends puja every morning, was walking back in the rain to the labrang where he lives one morning when he slipped and fell on the side of the road. As it turns out, there were no other Shar Gaden monks with him to offer assistance.
As monks walked by from other monasteries, he asked for help from them as he could not get up from the muddy ground on his own. He was completely ignored and left in the mud for almost 10 minutes as monks from other monasteries walked by as if he did not exist.
It wasn't until a monk from his labrang came by that he was helped to his feet and led home.
This broke the hearts of many of our monks as this senior monk is loved and admired by literally hundreds of monks from our monastery.
To this senior monk's credit, he holds no anger or bitterness at those who refused to help him. For those that know him, it would be impossible to fathom this monk holding anything but love and compassion in his heart.
As for me, I still see the monk who spit at me from time to time. He often watches me as I walk by the Shartse bookshop on my way to classes. When I look at him, I try to smile, although he has yet to reciprocate. I will keep trying.
Some of the monks I know have suffered unimaginable things due to this ban. Families have been ripped apart, students split from their teachers and Gurus etc..
What I have experienced in just a speck of what others have gone through.
The over-all feeling I get, and this is just my opinion, is that the worst is in the past.
May this be a new dawn rising.
This is heart breaking it makes me very sad :(
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Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.
Losang Tenpa - the story is a good one, thanks!
It's interesting what you say about older monks 'ignoring' the issue as much as they can. Do you really think it's because they want to 'avoid having to deal with it' or is it more that they really do not have any ill wish towards Shugden practitioners and wish to just turn a blind eye, as it were - in other words, to continue interacting with them as if there was no problem?
It is however, very saddening to hear that it is the young (and probably more energetic) monks that are implementing these measures. It's likely they'll have far more stamina and energy to keep such strict measures going and far less willing to compromise or turn a blind eye. What do they really get out of it, I wonder?
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The circumstances concerning how this particular picture was taken are actually a bit ironic. On the day the photo was taken, it was raining very heavy and a friend and I were walking down the road next to the Drepung Loseling Clinic. As we were passing by, a monk sitting on the steps to the clinic waved us over to take shelter with him on the steps of the clinic. It wasn't until we had been standing there for about 15 minutes that we noticed this sign almost directly over our heads. I then asked my friend to discreetly take this picture.
Drepung Loseling is a a bit far from Gaden, at least in terms of normal everyday travel for monks, so none of the monks there seem to know who we are. It is very different near Gaden where everyone has seen us around and knows we are from Shar Gaden.
Anyway, we had a laugh about it. What would the old monk have said if I had indirectly flashed my Shar Gaden I.D. card? Who know, maybe nothing. Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.
In my opinion, I feel that it is those younger and the middle aged monks who impose the ban more zealously is because they are somewhat insecure about their own spiritual practice which is why they feel that somehow imposing the ban would be a fast track to their spiritual practice. I feel this in western practitioners who are against Dorje Shugden as well and it is pretty clear and strong. That is the reason why they are so against the Dorje Shugden ban when they could have took the effort and time to do Dharma practice instead and tame their own mind and bring real results. They see hating Dorje Shugden and enforcing the ban as a spiritual shortcut to spiritual peace, like how some Christians think that the shortcut to heaven is to convert everyone around them.
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Some of the older monks seem to think that it is easy to ignore the issue as best as they can to avoid having to deal with it. It seems mostly the younger and middle-aged monks who are still pushing these draconian measures.
Losang Tenpa - the story is a good one, thanks!
It's interesting what you say about older monks 'ignoring' the issue as much as they can. Do you really think it's because they want to 'avoid having to deal with it' or is it more that they really do not have any ill wish towards Shugden practitioners and wish to just turn a blind eye, as it were - in other words, to continue interacting with them as if there was no problem?
It is however, very saddening to hear that it is the young (and probably more energetic) monks that are implementing these measures. It's likely they'll have far more stamina and energy to keep such strict measures going and far less willing to compromise or turn a blind eye. What do they really get out of it, I wonder?
You are probably right, at least in my own mind it seems that the older monks hold no ill will and have truly put compassion ahead of any political agenda. True Dharma!!!
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In my opinion, I feel that it is those younger and the middle aged monks who impose the ban more zealously is because they are somewhat insecure about their own spiritual practice which is why they feel that somehow imposing the ban would be a fast track to their spiritual practice.
This is what I have the most problem with - that the ban is being upheld in the name of religious purity and out of what is a supposed devotion to the Dalai Lama... but how is discrimination, unkindness, ostracism and attacks (psychological, physical, ethical) in any way a reflection of good practice or a good Buddhist?
If we really were students of the Dalai Lama, respected him so much and wished to be a good reflection him as a teacher, then why would we act in such unsavoury ways? It is one thing to choose not to continue your own practice of Shugden, in following the Dalai Lama's instructions, but it is quite another to also denigrate others who choose to maintain their practice, uphold such a cruel ban and act in such unkindly ways.
This ban, above all, has called into question so many aspects of practice - what it really means to follow a teacher's instructions, what it means to really maintain your practice without it being at the expense of another person's practice and relationship with their teacher. I think it isn't just the ban on the deity that has been the problem but more so, the ensuing reactions of people upholding the ban and the way Buddhists are treating fellow practitioners.
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This is what I have the most problem with - that the ban is being upheld in the name of religious purity and out of what is a supposed devotion to the Dalai Lama... but how is discrimination, unkindness, ostracism and attacks (psychological, physical, ethical) in any way a reflection of good practice or a good Buddhist?
If we really were students of the Dalai Lama, respected him so much and wished to be a good reflection him as a teacher, then why would we act in such unsavoury ways? It is one thing to choose not to continue your own practice of Shugden, in following the Dalai Lama's instructions, but it is quite another to also denigrate others who choose to maintain their practice, uphold such a cruel ban and act in such unkindly ways.
This ban, above all, has called into question so many aspects of practice - what it really means to follow a teacher's instructions, what it means to really maintain your practice without it being at the expense of another person's practice and relationship with their teacher. I think it isn't just the ban on the deity that has been the problem but more so, the ensuing reactions of people upholding the ban and the way Buddhists are treating fellow practitioners.
Because like I have mentioned earlier, these people find it difficult to actually put the teachings into practice because well, focusing on your own mind and facing your own weaknesses is always harder than hating a particular group of people or spreading the gospel about how Dorje Shugden is bad. To me the acts and mentality is not that different from evangelists, extremists and fundamentalists that damages everyone else just to enact their ideals on others. The most ironic part of this is that robert thurman calls the Shugdenpas as the Buddhist taliban when he, being a critic of Dorje Shugden, it is more of him and other anti Dorje Shugden people who make up stories and who focus their hatred on the Shugdenpas act more like the talibans instead.
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This is really sad to know about because religious freedom is one of the most basic human rights and it's not fair that Dorje Shugden practitioners have to endure the suffering. I don't understand, people are treated the same way even in some monasteries, aren't monasteries supposed to teach what the Buddha has taught? Where is the compassion and tolerance?