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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: Tammy on October 28, 2012, 09:41:13 AM
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When approached to make donation for good causes, i.e. build temples, offerings to sangha members, help charitable homes, build schools, etc etc people after have many excuses for not contributing. One of the weirdest reasons is : they prefer to donate coffin to those who can't afford as it is believe that donating coffins (and /or funeral expenses) generates huge amount of merits not other donation can beat.
This practise of donating coffins is being promoted in Thailand in a big way... Refer to links below for information
http://www.mybuddha108.com/wats/bangkok/w_hua_lamphong.html (http://www.mybuddha108.com/wats/bangkok/w_hua_lamphong.html)
However, I would prefer to donate to support those who are still living then those already dead and hence do not understand the rationale behind this phenomena of coffin donation.
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Interesting post. I have also heard from many before that donating a coffin collect huge amount of merits but have no idea what is the explanation behind it as the person has already passed away, and what if that person is a crook?
The only explanation could be, it is very generous and kind as we would make an effort to do one last thing for the deceased, paying him/her respect and offer him/her a resting place. And it will also comfort the living members of the family. As for gaining merits, I have not figure that part out yet...
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Irrespective of the methods (as long as the methods do not bring harm to any being) to give or donate, the most important factor is the motivation of giving. I have not heard of the practice of donating coffins being promoted in such manner as described! However if it is done correctly, it sure helps the needy or the poor who couldn’t afford the cost of the coffin. It is meritorious if the donation is done correctly. Whether or not the merits accumulated is higher than the other methods depend on the motivation. If it is with the genuine bodhichitta motivation, then the merits accumulated are vast!
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The pursuit of merit is the Buddhist way to develop a wise sense of self.Merit then sets out in general terms the types of meritorious activities that conduce to the happiness ,focusing primarily on three:giving,virtue and meditation.The happiness of generosity can be maximised by wisely choosing the proper motivation for giving a gift' a proper gift,and a proper recipient for one's gift.
In the course of developing a wise sense of self in the pursuit of merit,one already learning how to let go of unwise ways of "selfing" as one learns how to overcome stinginess,apathy,and hard-heartedness through the development of giving,virtue and goodwill.
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Tammy - your post got me searching about coffin donation in Thailand, and I came across the article below.
Not only can you contribute towards the cost of a coffin, you can also contribute towards the white cloth and/or grave lot.
How this type of donation can generate huge amounts of merit : I would garner a guess that since this Foundation is helping accident victims and unidentified corpses, they are helping society by arranging the last rites for otherwise unclaimed bodies.
Barzin asked : ..... the person has already passed away, and what if that person is a crook?
So what if he/she was a crook --- does that prevent him from getting a decent funeral or final send off? Do we discrimate?
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http://www.eugenegoesthailand.com/?p=10956 (http://www.eugenegoesthailand.com/?p=10956)
Besides coffin offering to the destitute deceased at Ruamkatanyu Foundation next to Wat Hua Lamphong Temple, there is another non-profit organisation – Poh Tech Tung Foundation. Founded in 1910, this charity organization has been established by Dr. Utain Techapaiboon for arranging funerals for unidentified corpses, such as accident victims. Supported by Thai Chinese living in Yaowarat, Bangkok’s Chinatown, people from all walks of life step forward to offer a helping hand. Each coffin is 650 Baht (about S$28 or US$20.00) as compared with 500 Baht at Ruamkatanyu Foundation.
Making a contribution (Poh Teck Tung Foundation, Bangkok)
Making A Donation :
Coffin – 600 THB
White Cloth (‘cloth for the dead’) – 50 THB
Coffin + White Cloth – 650 THB
Single Grave Lot – 5000 THB
(http://8020.photos.jpgmag.com/3211814_264449_25199eac8e_m.jpg)
(http://8020.photos.jpgmag.com/3211811_264449_25199eac8e_m.jpg)
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Donating coffins to the poor who cannot afford it is providing them the last human right: to die in dignity.
Asians, especially Chinese believed that when we help the deceased to be buried properly or at least have a decent funeral, we are helping them to be reborn in a better 'place', thus, we are creating numerous good karma a.k.a. merits in common understanding.
In my opinion, there is really no different between helping the dead or the alive because they are still consciousness in the dead and the many more lives they'll have to take rebirths in; so at least we help them to leave in 'peace'.
If we think helping the alive now is better then we are only looking at the issue of THIS life; that means we didn't think of the future lives to come. As Buddhists, we know this is not the only life we'll have, there are more to come...
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Donating coffins to the poor who cannot afford it is providing them the last human right: to die in dignity.
Asians, especially Chinese believed that when we help the deceased to be buried properly or at least have a decent funeral, we are helping them to be reborn in a better 'place', thus, we are creating numerous good karma a.k.a. merits in common understanding.
In my opinion, there is really no different between helping the dead or the alive because they are still consciousness in the dead and the many more lives they'll have to take rebirths in; so at least we help them to leave in 'peace'.
If we think helping the alive now is better then we are only looking at the issue of THIS life; that means we didn't think of the future lives to come. As Buddhists, we know this is not the only life we'll have, there are more to come...
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Thank you DS Star.
If that is the case, are there any other countries (apart from Thailand) that practices this? Or is this just a cultural practice specifically isolated in Thailand?
Then that is not a Buddhist practice but more a culturally influenced practise by Chinese. Would this be widespread in China?
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Donating coffin can collect some merits because of the motivation of wanting to help others who cannot afford it.
However, I do not think one can collect a huge amount of merits because to do so, the object must be of great benefit to others. For example, the reason why donating to a temple or monastery or even a spiritual teacher can collect a lot of merits is because of how many people it can benefit in comparison to one coffin to ease a family's mind.
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I agree with Aurore. Donating to temples collect much more merits than donating for a coffin.
I believe that one collects more positive karma than merits as we are helping someone with a good deed like what ds star said. There are many out there who cant afford a proper burial. Helping those they left behind will ease their mind and easier for them to have a closure. Of coz it would be much better to help those alive while we still can..
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To donate coffin to the very poor that died (esp. those without relatives/loved ones) will bring good karma to the donor. Remember that intentions, like anything else, can and should be trained and refined.
For me, I think the dead does not really care if its earthly remains rests in a coffin or not. I often see people perform funeral and burial ceremonies and I see that the living suffer more than the dead when it comes to the burial-ware as I am fond of calling it.
So, beside good karma, it also makes those who are left behind, feel better about themselves.
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Donating coffins to the dead and collect loads of merits is really foreign to me. I suppose this has certain benefit to the sponsor to a certain extend because of the nature to help another sentient being. Having said that i am not so convinced of the amount of merits/karma that the sponsor collects if the dead is of a former criminal i.e. bad person. I see a point from a sponsor, the sponsor gets the merits/karma of sponsoring whoever and he collects the karma because it is from the sponsor and whoever receives the benefit does not matter.
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The idea of donating coffin is to provide the deceased with a decent final resting ground. From a Taoist point of view there will be less homeless, wandering spirits. From the Buddhist point of view, after physical death, the soul would have left the body trying to be reincarnated so it does not really matter if there is a proper burial.
Nearly everyone in the world has certain beliefs regarding burial procedure for the dead. Some will just throw the corpse of the dead loved ones into the valley for the birds to prey on while others feel a proper burial is the right thing to do. So that is why the belief and culture of helping the poor with coffin donation comes about.
Many people in Thailand and other Asia countries are too poor to provide a proper burial for their dead loved ones and they will seek help from the temples. As times go by, the practice of coffin donation by devotees to help the poor becomes a norm and a way for Buddhists to gain merits, and gain good karma. To them coffin donation is for good luck and to reduce the impact of negative karma.
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The practice of donating coffins and funeral rites to poor and unclaimed deceased goes back in China's long history. Back in those medieval days , it was common for young maidens to be bartered to the funeral donor as slaves or wives , when their parents pass away without leaving them anything to pay for the funerals.
It is has been considered an act of filial piety for a child to pay for his or her parents funeral. So it has been the case in China that many poor people were sold into slavery in exchange for a decent funeral for their parents. If you noticed in many kung fu movies the poor wife or child of the deceased would parade around and place the dead relative in a busy market place to look for donors/sponsors.
I believe that this act of kindness , when done with correct motivation i.e. not in exchange for a slave or wife ! would be very meritorious indeed , as in any act of giving to persons (dead or living ) who are in dire straits. To give a person his last rites and decent funeral not only benefits the dead but also the living .
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The motivation of making donation towards coffin is not much different from we contribute to the family of dead people whom we know, just one is the person we knew and another one is someone we don't know.
So why we contribute or give donation to the the family of the funeral of people who we know??.
As a Buddhist we know what type of offering and to who that collect a huge amount of merits. That is just one way of how to attract and encourage people to make donation which is same as giving/gernerosity as one of the six paramita.
People who are kind, generous and have metta always looking for opportunity to help other either they know or not which is show their bodhicitta mind.
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Dear Ratanasutra
By the sound of your name, it seems you are from around Thailand area?
Would you like to give your personal thoughts on why this is prevalent in Thailand? I have not heard of this practice anywhere else, not yet anyhow, except through this post.
Are there any more practices that are only peculiar to your country? Please share with us. Thank you.
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I agreed on when the reason of donating coffin is to help the poor because they couldn't afford it. Helping the poor in any way is always meritorious but we can help the best way possible. If it calms the mind of the families and relatives then it is good. Due to land scarcity burial ground can be costly. Cremation is an alternative option where it is cheaper and the ashes can be recover after the process to be taken back home or to be placed in temple.
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I dont think donating coffins will gather a huge amount of merit. they will gather merits but to a certain extent because donating with the intention to gain something back like in this instance, merits shows that the donor themselves are not sincere in practicing generosity. If they were sincere, they would just donate and not make a big fuss out of it. Also, why only coffins? what about food or medicines, wouldnt that give more merits as logically, those are meant to keep people alive?
Superstitions sometimes can be so odd.
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I think this is mainly superstition. However, the act of donating an item is good, especially with a good motivation. If you have the motivation to comfort the family members and give the corpse a good burial, then you will create merit as there is a virtuous motivation. Thus, there are huge amount of merits. However, this is only with a pure thought.
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Here's an article where you might find some answers to in regards to how thai people view death and making merits in relation to the coffin.
http://www.buddhanet.net/bfuneral.htm (http://www.buddhanet.net/bfuneral.htm)
Buddhist Funeral Rites in Thailand & other South East Asian Countries
Funeral rites are the most elaborate of all the life-cycle ceremonies and the ones entered into most fully by the monks. It is a basic teaching of Buddhism that existence is suffering, whether birth, daily living, old age or dying. This teaching is never in a stronger position than when death enters a home. Indeed Buddhism may have won its way the more easily in Thailand because it had more to say about death and the hereafter than had animism.
The people rely upon monks to chant the sutras that will benefit the deceased, and to conduct all funeral rites and memorial services. To conduct the rites for the dead may be considered the one indispensable service rendered the community by the monks. For this reason the crematory in each large temple has no rival in secular society.
The idea that death is suffering, relieved only by the knowledge that it is universal, gives an underlying mood of resignation to funerals: Among a choice few, there is the hope of Nibbana with the extinction of personal striving; among the vast majority there is the expectation of rebirth either in this world, in the heaven of Indra or some other, or in another plane of existence, possibly as a spirit. Over the basic mood of gloom there has grown up a feeling that meritorious acts can aid the condition of the departed. Not all the teaching of Anatta (not self) can quite eradicate anxiety lest the deceased exist as pretas or as beings suffering torment. For this reason relatives do what they can to ameliorate their condition.
According to tradition, when a person is dying an effort should be made to fix his mind upon the Buddhist scriptures or to get him to repeat one of the names of Buddha, such as Phra Arahant. The name may be whispered in his ear if the person is far gone. Sometimes four syllables which are considered the heart of the Abhidharma, ci, ce, ru, and ni, representing "heart, mental concepts, form and Nibbana" are written on a piece of paper and put in the mouth of the dying man. It is hoped that if the last thoughts of the patient are directed to Buddha and the precepts, that the fruit of this meritorious act will bring good to the deceased in his new existence. In a village, at the moment of death, the relatives may set up a wailing both to express sorrow and to notify the neighbours who will then come to be of help.
After death a bathing ceremony takes place in which relatives and friends pour water over one hand of the deceased. The body is then placed in a coffin and surrounded with wreaths, candles and sticks of incense. If possible a photograph of the deceased is placed alongside, and coloured lights are suspended about the coffin: Sometimes the cremation is deferred for a week to allow distant relatives to attend or to show special honour to the dead. In this case a chapter of monks comes to the house one or more times each day to chant from the Abhidharma, sometimes holding the bhusa yong, a broad ribbon, attached to the coffin. Food is offered to the officiating monks as part of the merit-making for the deceased.
The food offered in the name of the dead is known as Matakabhatta from mataka ("one who is dead"). The formula of presentation is:
Reverend Sirs, we humbly beg to present this mataka food and these various gifts to the Sangha. May the Sangha receive this food and these gifts of ours in order that benefits and happiness may come to us to the end of time.
At an ordinary funeral in northern Thailand the cremation takes place within three days. The neighbours gather nightly to feast, visit, attend the services and play games with cards and huge dominoes. The final night is the one following the cremation. On the day of the funeral or orchestra is employed and every effort is made to banish sorrow, loneliness and the fear of spirits by means of music and fellowship. Before the funeral procession begins the monks chant a service at the home and then precede the coffin down the steps of the house, - stairs which are sometimes carpeted with banana leaves. It is felt that the body should not leave the house by the usual route, but instead of removing the coffin through a hole in the wall or floor, which is sometimes done, the front stairs are covered with green leaves to make that route unusual.
A man carrying a white banner on a long pole often leads the procession to the crematorium grounds. He is followed by some elderly men carrying flowers in silver bowls and then by a group of eight to ten monks walking ahead of the coffin and holding a broad ribbon (bhusa yong) which extend to the deceased. Often one of the monks repeats portions of the Abhidharma en route. The coffin may be carried by pall bearers or conveyed in a funeral car drawn by a large number of friends and relatives who feel that they are performing their last service for the deceased and engaged in a meritorious act while doing so. If the procession is accompanied by music the players may ride in ox carts or in a motor truck at the rear. During the service at the cemetery the monks sit facing the coffin on which rest the Pangsukula robes. After the chanting the coffin is placed on a pyre made of brick; the people then come up with lighted torches of candles, incense and fragrant wood and toss them beneath the coffin so that the actual cremation takes place at once. Later the ashes may be collected and kept in an urn.
Frequently the bodies of prominent or wealthy persons are kept for a year or more in a special building at a temple. Cremations are deferred this long to show love and respect for the deceased and to perform religious rites which will benefit the departed. In such cases a series of memorial services are held on the seventh, fiftieth, and hundredth days after the death. In one instance a wealthy merchant did not cremate the body of his daughter until he had spent all her inheritance in merit-making services for her. Another merchant spent the ten thousand baht insurance money received on the death of his small son entirely for religious ceremonies.
As along as the body is present the spirit can benefit by the gifts presented, the sermons preached and the chants uttered before it. This thought lies behind the use of the bhusa yhong ribbon which extends from the body within the coffin to the chanting monks before it. The dead may thus have contact with the holy sutras. When the body is cremated the spirit is more definitely cut off from the world, it is best therefore not to force that spirit to enter the preta world finally and irrevocably until it has had the benefit of a number of religious services designed to improve its status.
At cremations it is quite common for wealthy people to have printed for distribution books and pamphlets setting forth Buddhist teachings in the form of essays, translation of the sutras, historical sketches and explanations of ceremonies. Such books, numbering in the thousands, are not only a tribute to the dead and a means of making merit but they have practical value as well.
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Any donations arises by the thought of benefiting someone is considered virtuous out of compassion and kindness. With regards to generating merits there's no answer to that in this subject as i personally think that its part of a civilisation and/or culture in different country.
There's definitely some form of good karma generated for this aspect and with the blessing of the triple gems in particularly. Merits are generated due to the actions of paring respect and venerations to the triple gems in the form of body, speech and mind.
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I don't know if donating coffins to the needy collects a lot of merits but I do know that the Thais do have a special ritual of sleeping in a coffin to rid a person of negativities and bad luck and it seemed to have evolved from donating coffins of the needy. I am not really an expert on this but I do know that the Buddha did recommend death meditation for those who are very attached and that may be the factor in which we create merits. However, how much merits would be determined by one's motivation and transformation through this process.
Anyway, here's a little article about this ritual along with some interesting pictures for your perusal:-
Deeply Bizarre Thai Coffin Ritual For the Living
http://funstuffcafe.com/the-thai-coffin-ritual-for-the-living (http://funstuffcafe.com/the-thai-coffin-ritual-for-the-living)
Buddhist temple Wat Proman in Thailand is offering a deeply bizarre ritual of death and rebirth in order to help believers to solve their life’s torments – they just have to lie in a coffin, ”die” and be born again as a new persons, free of bad karma.
Thai ritual of lying in coffins to get rid of bad luck and prolong life, reflect some morbid tendencies of Thai society. Just think of relaxing in a coffin as a remedy. The ritual involves participants lying in coffins while of monks perform death rites on them as if they are already dead. This is then followed by a chant of new life. Many participants had said they felt as if they were reborn after the ritual – with all their bad karma buried behind them. Some claimed that the ritual helped fool the spirits that they’re already dead so they could start their new lives afresh like newborns.
There are also others who reported that they’ve met with the spirits of their dead loved ones while lying in the coffins. Or is it just a bad omen to lie in a coffin as a living? This “death rite for the living” is not without its detractors. Some brand it as an occult practice while many feel it’s bad omen to lie in coffins when they’re still alive. Some went as far as saying that this ritual is nothing but a case of commercialism entering the sacred religious domain. The critics, however, have not stopped more and more Thai people to voluntarily go through this death ritual for the living.
In Thailand, one may request for the ritual to be performed on him or her at a number of temples across the country. A few temples publicize and conduct mass “non loeng sadorcro” on a regular basis. Usually no fee is charged, but participants normally give donations to the temples in return for having the ritual performed on them. It’s speculated that the ritual in its current form is an evolved version of what started out as a simple act of donating coffins to the poor and those who died without relatives. Actually, some of those coffins look rather comfy!
(http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/thai_coffin_ritual1.jpg)
(http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/thai_coffin_ritual2.jpg)
(http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/thai_coffin_ritual3.jpg)
(http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/thai_coffin_ritual4.jpg)
(http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/thai_coffin_ritual5.jpg)
(http://www.inspirefusion.com/media/2012/thai_coffin_ritual6.jpg)
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I agree with you totally. How can donating a coffin create merits? The dead does not even need it to begin with. He has taken a rebirth! This practice is also prevalent in Taiwan. As a child I remember hearing my grandparents talking about donating coffins or burial grounds for the poor. They did that whenever they could. There were several occasions when I heard their passing remark that so and so were fighting with another person to be the donor. How odd i thought...
If I should ever donate one, it would be more to comfort the mind of the living relative than any other reason.