dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on April 21, 2012, 12:53:02 AM
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In this short clip taken during a stop in Long Beach, California on Friday, HH the Dalai Lama said he has no plans yet to retire, at least not before his 90th birthday. I’m very happy that the compassionate Chenrezig, HH the Dalai Lama, will be with us on this earthly plane for a good while longer. However, it really does make the so-called threat that Dorje Shugden makes on the Dalai Lama’s life rather ridiculous, don’t you think? If Dorje Shugden shortens one’s life and we can live until around 90 years, I don’t see the problem!
Dalai Lama says he's not retiring until at least 90 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG2Mija86vk#ws)
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Indeed it is very relieved to learn that HHDL will continue his holy mission till his 90th birthday. Perhaps he is planning to announce lifting the ban on his birthday? :)
The nonsense accusation that practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten HHDL's life has no basis, at least on these following reasonings:
1. If we believe HHDL as the emanation of Chenresig, then he is an enlightened Buddha. A Buddha will have control over his own life span; so definitely not logical that a 'non-enlighten spirit' can shorten his life;
2. DS supposedly will only protect Gelug lineage and thus will threaten survival of other traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. So if DS is to protect Gelug-pa which is also HHDL's tradition, there is even more logical that DS will prolong the life of HHDL (if he can) so that Gelupa lineage will continue to grow.
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First of all, it is Dorje Shugden who helped HH Dalai Lama escaped Tibet during the Chinese invasion. With Dorje Shugden thangka which Dalai Lama personally requested it back from His Guru Trijang Rinpoche for him to bring along while HH was in life threatening situation. The Dalai Lama and his entourage escaping from Tibet to India.
Again i wanted to stressed here, why would HH Dalai Lama would request Trijang Rinpoche to lend Him the Dorje Shugden Thangka which earlier HH Himself had presented the thangka to His Guru as a gift. Why is the thangka is so important during that time?
So if Dorje Shugden really wanted to harm or shorthen HH Dalai Lama's life, why should He help HH back then, does it making any sense?
But it is not for me to to judge or understand certain decisions make by The Buddha Himself and hope HH the Dalai Lama will live long and continue to spin the Wheel of the Dharma.
I would like to share the HH Dalai Lama's 76th Birthday Celebration video in Washington:
His Holiness the Dalai Lama's 76th Birthday Celebrations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XFhWI6QOHg#ws)
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Now, let us use logic to decipher this: If it was true, with the thousands of NKT branches around and them practicing DS strongly, and also huge regions of Tibet practicing Dorje Shugden, shouldnt HHDL be dead by now? If not, what does it say? Why would he want to make such a statement? In fact, 90 is a very old age for HHDL. If you read his biography, none of his incarnations actually hit that age!
So, in reality, his life is lengthened, is it because he wants to fool china so that they will encourage the entire nation to practice Dorje Shugden? is this not one of his skillful means to actually spread Dorje Shugden to many? It is also due to this ban that Dorje Shugden has gained more exposure than ever and has been the subject of curiosity rather than a forgotten protector.
I mean, logically it does not gel, but why would people not see it and still see things on a literal level instead of a deeper level or from a wider angle? Perhaps it would be easier for them to be politically correct rather than to have success in their spiritual practice and their personal transformation. Everyone wants the easy path, which is why they prefer Vajrayana as they think they can put in less effort.
Dorje Shugden himself has already said that the ban will be lifted in 5 years, and by that time HHDL should be in his 80s. And he will declare that Dorje Shugden is the most powerful Dharma protector ever and install him as the principal protector of Tibet and the Gelugs, and when that happens, many of those against Dorje Shugden will have to eat their words.
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Ensapa ????
Dorje Shugden himself has already said that the ban will be lifted in 5 years, and by that time HHDL should be in his 80s. And he will declare that Dorje Shugden is the most powerful Dharma protector ever and install him as the principal protector of Tibet and the Gelugs, and when that happens, many of those against Dorje Shugden will have to eat their words.
When did he say this ?
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Those who believe that HH Dalai Lama’s health will be harmed or his life shortened by Dorje Shugden are really stupid. If everyone accepts HH Dalai Lama as the emanation of Chenrezig, a Buddha, then how can a Buddha possibly be harmed by a spirit? If HH Dalai Lama can be harmed by spirit, then HH Dalai Lama is not a Buddha or Chenrezig at all.
If Dorje Shugden is really a spirit, why is HH Dalai Lama so afraid of Dorje Shugden? Since Dorje Shugden is a spirit and is harmful to HH Dalai Lama, then why didn’t HH Dalai Lama tame the spirit and put it under his control once and for all just like Padmasambhava did? Wouldn’t it be easier to destroy or tame Dorje Shugden than to have a ban? Does HH Dalai Lama not have the power to destroy or tame Dorje Shugden?
HH Dalai Lama had said that if anyone practise Dorje Shugden then don’t go to his teachings or initiation. Why subject the Dorje Shugden practitioners’ lives to risk knowing they will continue to practise Dorje Shugden? Shouldn’t HH Dalai Lama or Chenrezig be concerned? Where is the compassion of a Buddha?
If HH Dalai Lama claim Dorje Shugden is a spirit, HH Dalai Lama is saying Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche, Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and all Gelugpa Lineage masters were wrong. Does HH Dalai Lama not trust his guru’s teachings on Dorje Shugden?
There are so many other valid reasons to prove Dorje Shugden is not a spirit and will not shorten HH Dalai Lama’s life! Otherwise HH Dalai Lama would not have lived until today!
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Rejoice to hear that HHDL will at least live to the age of 90. :)
The longer he lives, it just proves that it is ridiculous and not logical to say that DS can harm his life.
From my humble opinion, I still believe that the saying that DS will harm HHDL is for a bigger picture.
1. HHDL is the Buddha and emanation of Chenresig, no evil spirit would be able to harm him
2. DS saved and protected HHDL to escape from Tibet. If DS wants to harm DDHL, he would do it earlier and will not save him.
3. HHDL Gurus like Trijang Rinpoche are DS practitioners, would HHDL’s Guru will practise evil spirits that will harm HHDL? It is just illogical.
4. HHDL allows the current Trijang Rinpoche to practise DS, so, what does this say? ;D
I really hope HHDL will live long and spread Dharma to more people. The more HHDL banned DS, more Chinese will practise DS. Maybe HHDL wants to live long as he would be the one who lift the ban again when the time is right! Pray hard for that day to come ASAP!
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Firstly, I am glad that the Dalai Lama is going to live long as he is a compassionate and has worked tirelessly to spread Buddhism to the world. However, he is contradicting himself now because he claimed that of Buddhist continued to practice Dorje Shugden, his life would be shortened. As we can see, it may not be true because his life is still long and he can control his death. So far, there is no evidence that Dorje Shugden did shorten his life. How could a spirit (as claimed) harm and enlightened being?
So, maybe this claim is to divert people's attention from his promise to obtain Tibet's independence in a stipulated time of which he failed to get.
I do wish that what Ensapa claimed that the ban would be lifted in 5 years is true. Then, the truth will be out and the Dalai Lama could tell his side of the story.
Om Mani Padme Hung!
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This is somehow really hilarious to hear HHDL saying He will not be retiring any time soon. Yes it sure goes to show that Dorje Shugden obviously does not and cannot be affect by HHDL's life and it was just some made up excuses to create a huge drama, like an illusory play. But to what and for what real reasons exactly is the question?
The only sane logical reason i can think of is that Dalai Lama is indirectly creating hype on Dorje Shugden so that more and more will get to know this awesome Protector of out time. As insane as it may sound I agree with the fact that perhaps HHDL is skilfully promoting Dorje Shugden to China because everything that HHDL does not like and discourages, China will surely pick it up and encourage. It's such a brilliant plan that no one could have thought of?
Well much rejoice tht HHDL will live long for He brings so much Dharma to hundreds of thousands of people. If it was not for HHDL, I doubt Tibetan Buddhism would so popular today.
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Enlightenment is the final destination of all sentient being, Buddha is an enlightened being, and spirit is just another life form in Samsara, bonding by attachment? Restricted by Karma? So many problems to deal with and how can a spirit able to shorten a living Buddha’s life? Does it make any sense? Unless HHDL is not a Living Buddha, then it will be different story.
So many people worshipping the real spirits, having ill motivation, but how come these people didn’t addressed? Why is Dorje Shugden practitioner being targeted? For anyone who have brain and can think, I’m sure you will understand the reason behind, not difficult, just be logical.
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Now, let us use logic to decipher this: If it was true, with the thousands of NKT branches around and them practicing DS strongly, and also huge regions of Tibet practicing Dorje Shugden, shouldnt HHDL be dead by now? If not, what does it say? Why would he want to make such a statement? In fact, 90 is a very old age for HHDL. If you read his biography, none of his incarnations actually hit that age!
I like what Ensapa wrote about the practitioner, it is true don't you think? How can HHDL still be alive when there are so many people around the world.
In reply to Zach about from where the informton of 5 years to release the ban, I dunno either. When so many people are talking about ban lifted, even giving a time frame, 5 years. As from CTA side, if they know we are waiting for these period, do you think they will let it pass so easily?
The link are some information for the time frame.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1310.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1310.0)
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From I read and understand, a Lama's life depends on the students, ie, their Samaya. Broken Samaya will lead to shortening of a Lama's life. Because by not listening to the Lama's instruction, we might jeaopardise his Dharma work and cause many not receiving Dharma.
When HHDL said his life will be shortened if people still practise Dorje Shugden, this does not make sense to me. If the practitioner is one of HHDL's student and he/she does not listen to HHDL's instruction, then yes, his life span will be affected, because samaya is not kept.
But if the practitioner is not his student, I do not see how HHDL's life span will be reduced. There is no Samaya involved in this case.
In Vajrayana practice, having strong Guru Devotion, clean Samaya are very essential in our spiritual practice if we want to gain attainment.
HHDL is now saying he can live until 90 years old, and I heard from his other talk that more and more people especially in Europe, South East Asia, Taiwan, etc are practising Dorje Shugden, isn't he indirectly contradict his statement of Dorje Shugden practitioners can reduce his life span?
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I would say HH Dalai Lama is still practising Dorje Shugden...thats why He is still around today. He will be around until the ban is lifted for sure. Hopefully by then HH will explain the ban and the truth prevails! Look at all the great masters who practised Dorje Shugden, didnt they all live till old age? Saying that practising Dorje Shugden definitely has no basis at all! Logically thinking, HH says everything for a purpose we do not have the karma to understand.
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Enlightenment is the final destination of all sentient being, Buddha is an enlightened being, and spirit is just another life form in Samsara, bonding by attachment? Restricted by Karma? So many problems to deal with and how can a spirit able to shorten a living Buddha’s life? Does it make any sense? Unless HHDL is not a Living Buddha, then it will be different story.
So many people worshipping the real spirits, having ill motivation, but how come these people didn’t addressed? Why is Dorje Shugden practitioner being targeted? For anyone who have brain and can think, I’m sure you will understand the reason behind, not difficult, just be logical.
This is so true. Spirits can't affect an Enlightened being's longevity. In this case, it's Chenrezig.
Isn't Bon a paganistic religion in Tibet that worships unenlightened beings? So why isn't this practice banned? Let's be consistent here. According to wikipedia, it states, "Tenzin Gyatso, the 14th Dalai Lama, recognizes the Bon tradition as the sixth principal spiritual school of Tibet, along with the Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Gelug and Jonang schools of Buddhism, despite the long historical competition between the Bon tradition and Buddhism in Tibet."
It's so obvious that HHDL has a hidden agenda for banning Dorje Shugden's practice. Why is CTA being so harsh to the Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioners then? Why not just play along for the bigger picture to unveil? Why does CTA create so much suffering to their citizens?
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Thank you all for your many-angled insight. Just reading the thoughts shared is always constructive learning!
The logic and analysis of how Dorje Shugden practice does NOT shorten HH's life is strong because it is supported by result. Not only is HH well into His 70s, He just made an open statement that He will live until he is 90 years-old. What wonderful news. Connecting this to HH's statement (as shared by Dolce Vita) that there is a growing number of Dorje Shugden practitioners in nations where Buddhadharma was not prevalent, we can logically and undoubtedly come to a calculated conclusion that Dorje Shugden practice does not harm the Dalai Lama.
Once again, our enlightened Dharma masters are compassionately working with the tendencies of our minds to communicate effectively with us. Understanding what makes headlines and captures our attention, controversies are orchestrated around Dorje Shugden so that Dorje Shugden enters our lives rapidly during these desperate and urgent time.
I pray that HH will live healthily and happily until 90 and the many lifetimes of cooperation between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden (from the time of their previous incarnations) will continue to bring pure Dharma to millions.
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It is such rejoicing news to hear that HHDL is not retiring until at least 90 years old. This proves that Dorje Shugden's practice does not shorten HHDL's life but in actuality increases his life. In fact, since the ban of DS practice, there are more DS monasteries flourishing everywhere and more DS practitioners around the world but there is no sign of HHDL's life shortened. Anyway, HHDL is an enlightened being and his life cannot be shortened by DS practice. It is the broken samaya and lack of guru devotion from students that can shorten HHDL's life.
All those who believe that HHDL's life can be shortened by DS practice are ignorant and stupid. They should learn up and understand who is Dorje Shugden instead of making a fool of themselves with silly accusations.
May HHDL live long and stay healthy always. May the ban be lifted soon!
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Does it really shorten HHDL's life? I have always wondered. From this video, I get a great sense that HHDL is manifesting contradiction of course with a purpose. Is HHDL trying to make statement that goes against what he said previous about how Dorje Shugden would affect him? It seems to me that it is time the His Holiness is reversing about things that he said about Dorje Shugden, I am just guessing perhaps he is manifesting this to prove that in fact Dorje Shugden's practice wouldn't shorten his life. In fact he is in full control of his life. I wonder how would CTA feel? Even His Holiness seems to get in line with how the world thinks of Shugden, and I heard less of His Holiness talking about the ban. So I am assuming His Holiness wil continue to drop hint here and there to show the world afterall Shugden practice is not the core reason for the ban it is actually for the growth of dharma. I hope CTA is able to see it and remove all things about banning DS, it won't be too smart to accumulate much negative karma due to some face issues.
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This is really quite funny. Not much speaks louder than real results and the result right before our very eyes is the Dalai Lama at age 77 running on the thread mill and taking strides much more vigorously than men half his age, and showing no signs of slowing down.
Even if we do not understand much else, we must be logical. In 1976, HHDL started "isolating" himself away fro DS. Then in 1996, HHDL became more forceful in imposing the ban. All in all 36 have passed since Dorje Shugden supposedly wanted to harm HHDL.
So either DS is completely ineffectual as an 'evil spirit" in which case there is nothing to fear or the whole controversy is a clever ruse to get the enemies of HHDL to promote DS on his behalf. Which they did and continue to.
I am quite sure that when no one is watching Chenrezig and Dorje Shugden sit down together having tea and a good laugh.
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I am glad to hear that HH Dalai Lama has plan to live over 90 years old.
I like vajratruth's argument that if he has plan to live over 90 years old, then what is all this fuss about Dorje Shugden shorten His life? Actually, the whole thing about Dorje Shugden shortening HH Dalai Lama's life make no sense at all. This argument itself has so much loophole in it. If HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig, how can He be harm?
While I am glad to hear that Dalai Lama has plan to live over 90, I would hope to see that Dalai Lama would concentration on Buddhist activities (such as Dharma talks, initiations, etc) rather than political matters (to me, Dorje Shugden is more a political matter than Dharma related matter). He should let the prime minister to run the political matters. What do you think?
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If Dorje Shugden can shorten HHDL's life, HHDL would not have so confidently made such a statement knowing very well that there are many people still practising DS. A 'spirit' will listen to the Lama, so what makes one think that a Lama's life can be affected by just a 'spirit'. Even when oracles take trance, they will listen, pay homage and respect to the Lama, so how can a 'spirit' control and determine the life of a HIGHLY ATTAINED Lama such as HHDL?
It is said in HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche's biography that Rinpoche pinpointed exactly the dates that he would enter clear light and his cremation. It is also said in Rinpoche's biography that there was a period that Rinpoche was extremely ill, but at the request of the monastic Dharma protector who requested Rinpoche to prolong his life until HH Trijang Rinpoche's reincarnation was recognized, Zong Rinpoche miraculously healed and did not manifest any illness. This clearly proves that highly attained lamas have control over their life and death.
Seeing that Zong Rinpoche is Heruka, and HH Dalai Lama is Chenrezig, there is no difference in their attainments and their ability to control their lifespan.
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Hey, I just thought of this, I’ve heard many times that people said practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten Dalai Lama’s life, but what’s my doubt are:
1. How does Dorje Shugden relate to Dalai Lama that created a situation where whenever people practice Dorje Shugden, it will shorten Dalai Lama’s life?
2. There are so many people practicing other spirits out there, why is it only Dorje Shugden and not other spirits?
3. Those people out there are not related to Dalai Lama, some of them don’t even know who Dalai Lama is, so when they practice Dorje Shugden, how will it affect Dalai Lama’s life?
4. If Dorje Shugden as a spirit is so powerful, if somehow rather that Dorje Shugden is relate to Dalai Lama and will harm his life, I’m pretty sure whether there are people practicing or not, Dorje Shugden will still harm Dalai Lama’s life, so by banning Dorje Shugden and stopping people from practicing to save Dalai Lama’s life, does it make sense?
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HHDL is now in his 70's, if practicing Dorje Shugden can shorten HHDL's life, HHDL will not be here with us until to this day and the many more years to come until he is in his 90's. HHDL is an enlightened being, definitely he can control his own life span. When, where, how he wants to go into clear light is dependent of him. If Dorje Shugden is a spirit, it is impossible for Dorje Shugden to harm HHDL, if Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, why would he want to harm HHDL? So all these fuss about Dorje Shugen shortening HHDL's life is just a joke, it really doesn't make sense at all.
May His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama live long and continue to turn the wheel of dharma to benefit all sentient beings.
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1. In the laws of karma, nothing can harm you unless you have the karma to be harmed. HHDL is an emanation of Chenrezig. As Boddhisattva Chenrezig is an Enlightened Being, he is free from karma.
2. High lamas have the power to heal themselves. They can also determine when and how they want to enter clear light. For this instance, HHDL has made the announcement that he plans to live up to 90 years old and I believe it is possible.
In fact, in an Indian talk show hosted on this 75th birthday in 2010, Dalai Lama has also made a claim that he could probably live up to 105. “If I don’t commit suicide, then otherwise my body is very healthy. Another ten to twenty years. no problem. Maybe thirty years!”
(source: http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=225&catid=6&subcatid=33 (http://factsanddetails.com/china.php?itemid=225&catid=6&subcatid=33))
On one hand, His Holiness says that Dorje Shugden shortens his life, on the other hand, he claims that he will not die anytime soon as long as he doesn't take his own life.
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The so called reason for banning the practice of Dorje Shugden because it will shorten His Holiness Dalai Lama comes in as a joke to me with all respect. Dalai Lama's health is still very good despite the practice of Dorje Shugden is growing all over the globe especially we are talking about the increasing numbers in China alone. We don't seem to see His Holiness' health degenerating and it will be great to have such compassionate being to live his precious existence in our planet to the fullest and live long to continue to spread the teachings of Buddha.
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I really, really wonder how the practice of Dorje Shugden can affect the lifespan of HHDL since he declared he is going to live until 90. Hmmmm.....or is it that the other way around?
I am glad Chenrezig himself is going to continue working compassionately with wisdom to benefit more beings until it is time for him to decide when to take another rebirth. I do not think that any being aside from himself can determine this.
CTA: what explanation do you have?
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This is a classic one from the anti-shugden camp. One for the books. We'll look back on this in many years and have a good laugh (we're doing that right now, actually).
Another one, a little related to this, is the claim that engaging in DS practice will shorten our lives and eventually lead us to hell. the CTA and their cronies have set up websites just to say this (antishugden.com), complete with nasty graphics and immature photoshopped pictures of DS Lamas. (This doesn't say much about them as leaders of a supposed community, but it doesn't seem they even realise this).
If this was the case, then why are so many of the world's most well known Dorje Shugden practitioners back in this world? Their unmistaken incarnations are very much among us. If they had promoted DS, engaged in his practice and spread the lineage to thousands of students - as teachers like HH Kyabje Pabongka and HH Kyabje Trijang did, then why are they back and not in hell? AND, many of these incarnations - like the current Trijang Chocktrul Rinpoche - was recognised and identified by His Holiness the Dalai Lama himself!
Quite contradictory, isn't it, that he would say that this "spirit"'s practice is extremely dangerous and sends practitioners to hell; then recognise the incarnation of the very master who was most famed for his DS practice; THEN give him the special exception to practice too! (see that famous video of him granting exception here: Dalai Lama says Trijang Rinpoche can practise Dorje Shugden (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWi1fJkTA9Q#)) There are so many contradictions in this - does no one else see this?
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With all due respect, those who believes that doing Dorje Shugden practice will cause harm and shorten HH Dalai Lama's life are really ignorant and are judging the book by its cover.
The controversy arose in the late 1970s when the HH Dalai Lama started to speak out against the propitiation of Dorje Shugden and intensified since 1996. Moreover, Dorje Shugden is a Dharma Protector of the Sakya and Gelug traditions, who has been worshipped for over three hundred years.
From then till now, it is already 40+ years. If this practice is really harmful and will shorten HH Dalai Lama's life, why is HH still alive till today and has HH declared that His going to live till at least 90 years old????!
All these just don't make sense.
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Put it this way, how can we practising Dorje Shugden (a proven Buddha and not a spirit) can actually shorten Dalai Lama's life who is Bodhisattva Chenrizig? Buddha harm another Buddha? I will just have to ask this question to any of the doubters. We know very well how the high monks during 5th Dalai Lama's lifetime made numerous pujas to subdue the so called "spirit" Dorje Shugden but to no avail bcos Dorje Shugden is a Buddha.
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So far, the Dalai Lama's health has been good and I dont see any threats to his health. Nothing is going on and he is still very well alive. And Dorje Shugden's practice is still strong in many ways, so it is safe to conclude that Dorje Shudgen does not harm his health or shorten his life. He even said that he will live on all the way to 90 years old! I hope he unbans Dorje Shugden by then!
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So, maybe this claim is to divert people's attention from his promise to obtain Tibet's independence in a stipulated time of which he failed to get.
Om Mani Padme Hung!
Yes, I agree Galen. I have always wondered about the timing of the Dalai Lama ban on Dorje Shugden. There were no spiritual unrest or quarrels amongst the Tibetan Buddhist community that might have prompted the two most aggressive attacks on Dorje Shugden in 1996 and 2008 and therefore the Shugden affair does not seem to have its roots in any spiritual matter at all.
There were however, 2 politically related incidents that could explain why a red herring was needed in 1996 and 2008. A few years prior, in 1988 the Dalai Lama had unilaterally given up the pursuit of Tibet's independence, opting instead for an autonomous Tibet under the sovereignty of China. This would have been a terrible blow to the Tibetans had it been made very public but it was not and soon, in 1989 the Dalai Lama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize and with that all Tibetans basked in the glory of their spiritual and temporal leader, thinking that finally Tibetan independence was within grasp. But by 1995, when it became clear that Tibetans were not even close to returning to their homeland, rumblings of Tibetan independence started again and this time spearheaded by the Dalai Lama's own brother. The public split between the Dalai Lama and his own brother was not good press for the Dalai Lama and attention was being drawn towards Tibet's independence versus autonomy. The louder the call for Tibet's independence, the more it was becoming evident that Tibet's own leader had hawked off what all Tibetans treasured.
And so the Dalai Lama had to produce a false witness in Nechung (remember Nechung bows to the Dalai Lama) claiming that Dorje Shugden was the cause of the failure in Tibet regaining its independence. And in addition the Dalai Lama added to the stake another thing all Tibetans treasure - that is the Dalai Lama himself. The Dalai Lama claimed that the practice of Dorje Shugden shortens his life knowing full well how he is revered and loved by Tibetans as their god-king.
That worked and attention shifted to a deity that had been propitiated for hundreds of years and Tibetans turned on their own kind in retribution.
The call for Tibet's independence cooled off somewhat until the years leading into the Beijing Olympics and attention again focused on the China-Tibet issue. As Tibetan independence movements geared up for action (perhaps even under the instigation of the Dalai Lama's own office as China has claimed) the call for Tibet's independence became louder and all this nationalistic fervor can only serve to highlight that it was the Dalai Lama himself who gave away the nation's independence in Strasbourg years back. And so, there was a need to create a bigger distraction to divert attention away from the Dalai Lama's failure and this time the Dalai Lama went for the jugular with the Shugden practicing monks and lay people.
And why Dorje Shugden was made the culprit? It would not have been expedient to pick on the State Oracle as much of the political decisions were made in consultation with Nechung and if Nechung had been wrong all these time, it would also mean that the Dalai Lama has also been wrong. Neither could the Dalai Lama ban a practice outside his own Gelugpa sect. None of the other sects regard the Dalai Lama as their spiritual head and therefore it had to be Dorje Shugden.
Not that the Dalai Lama himself believes it and His Holiness let the cat out of the bag a few times stating confidently that he can look forward to a long time. The Dalai Lama may be in collusion with Dorje Shugden to spread the Dharma with the added play by Nechug. Or it could just be that the Dalai Lama picked on Dorje Shugden knowing fully well that Dorje Shugden is a fully enlightened Buddha and will always upkeep the Lojong rule and let the other party have the victory.
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HHDL is giving a series of Lamrim Chenmo teaching in Gaden and Drepung monastery right now, and HH seems very fit in video. I wonder what is it like in Gaden/Shar Gaden?
If DS an evil spirit that are powerful enough to shorten HHDL life, why should DS still allowed HHDL to teach Dharma just next to his temple ? Lamrim Chenmo is one of the main teaching that well spread by HHDL's tutor HH Trijang Dorje Chang and the Mahasiddha HH Pabongka Dorje Chang. Both HH Trijang Dorje Chang and HH Pabongka Dorje Chang are also well known DS lineage lama, and I believe HHDL also receive Lamrim Chenmo from HH Trijang Dorje Chang.
Since HH Trijang Dorje Chang lineage is “unclean", shouldn't be whatever teaching that giving by HHDL this few days also consider "unclean", so what's the point of receiving it ?
Of course not... Whatever teaching that passed down from HH Pabongka Rinpoche to HH Trijang Rinpoche then to HH Dalai Lama will only be "clean" and pure, which included the Dorje Shugden lineage. How can a lama passed to a student something not right or evil ? If a Lama passed something bad to the students, which created a damage in the student's spiritual practice, this lama himself will created a lot of bad karma. So why HH Pabongka Rinpoche and HH Trijang Rinpoche still taking rebirth in a human form ?
We should really think about it.
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It seems that every thing His Holiness is doing or is happening these days is the opposite of what His Holiness claims Dorje Shugden would be doing towards Tibet and him.
So are all these hints pointing towards the direction that his reasons for Banning Dorje Shugden is getting more and more weak and ridiculous. Surely HHDL is smart and aware enough that everything He says would be picked up by Shugden practitioners and China. So now we can see... after the Ban...
1. His Holiness is still healthy and promises of living longer up till He is 90
2. Tibet is still in China's firm grip and no sign of them loosening this grip
3. Instead of Dorje Shugden creating separatism... it is actually the Tibetan Govt and people themselves who have split themselves up through this Ban.
4. People are dying more and more each day due to politics... not their spiritual belief in Dorje Shugden. In fact the Shugdenpas are the ones making progress and has not cause a single problem to anyone
5. The degeneration in Buddhism is happening because Peaceful Buddhist people are burning themselves, accusing and discriminating others and causing chaos not Dorje Shugden practitioners
....and so much more
So either people are blind, deaf, or just down right ignoring the facts... there has so far been zero truth to all the allegations made and created about Dorje Shugden and seems like His Holiness is pointing towards that directly subtle when He says He will live long.
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It seems that every thing His Holiness is doing or is happening these days is the opposite of what His Holiness claims Dorje Shugden would be doing towards Tibet and him.
So are all these hints pointing towards the direction that his reasons for Banning Dorje Shugden is getting more and more weak and ridiculous. Surely HHDL is smart and aware enough that everything He says would be picked up by Shugden practitioners and China. So now we can see... after the Ban...
1. His Holiness is still healthy and promises of living longer up till He is 90
2. Tibet is still in China's firm grip and no sign of them loosening this grip
3. Instead of Dorje Shugden creating separatism... it is actually the Tibetan Govt and people themselves who have split themselves up through this Ban.
4. People are dying more and more each day due to politics... not their spiritual belief in Dorje Shugden. In fact the Shugdenpas are the ones making progress and has not cause a single problem to anyone
5. The degeneration in Buddhism is happening because Peaceful Buddhist people are burning themselves, accusing and discriminating others and causing chaos not Dorje Shugden practitioners
....and so much more
So either people are blind, deaf, or just down right ignoring the facts... there has so far been zero truth to all the allegations made and created about Dorje Shugden and seems like His Holiness is pointing towards that directly subtle when He says He will live long.
Not to mention that none of the Tibetans are working towards their independence the correct way (i.e not angering China and have a more peaceful approach to china that is obviously more constructive) and instead they hope for a magical solution to their problem, which they expect the Dalai Lama to pull out from his hat. Whatever the CTA is doing now, including the self immolations are counterproductive to their independence, but they still do it anyway without realizing what it does. Or they do, but it is just easier to give in to their emotions rather than doing what's right.
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Indeed, that's just one of Dalai Lama's skillful means to create a hype for Dorje Shugden, I mean if he wants to ban Shugden, he will cite reasons like Shugden is a demon, it will harm Tibet's cause, it will shorten his life...etc, so far we can see that Tibet is a lost cause, so that will be conveniently blamed on Shugden, but about the Dalai Lama part, he is still very healthy and no sign of passing anytime soon. For a 76-year old man, still traveling around the world giving teachings non-stop is quite a magnificent feat.
So of all the reasons that Dalai Lama cited "bad" about Shugden, some "came true", some does not...So the Dalai Lama is wrong in his prediction? Wrong in his perception of how harmful Shugden is?
The irony is, as the Dalai Lama lives longer (we hope so), his reason of banning Shugden (shortening his life) weakens...
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Indeed, that's just one of Dalai Lama's skillful means to create a hype for Dorje Shugden, I mean if he wants to ban Shugden, he will cite reasons like Shugden is a demon, it will harm Tibet's cause, it will shorten his life...etc, so far we can see that Tibet is a lost cause, so that will be conveniently blamed on Shugden, but about the Dalai Lama part, he is still very healthy and no sign of passing anytime soon. For a 76-year old man, still traveling around the world giving teachings non-stop is quite a magnificent feat.
So of all the reasons that Dalai Lama cited "bad" about Shugden, some "came true", some does not...So the Dalai Lama is wrong in his prediction? Wrong in his perception of how harmful Shugden is?
The irony is, as the Dalai Lama lives longer (we hope so), his reason of banning Shugden (shortening his life) weakens...
Actually, if the Dalai Lama really wanted to ban Dorje Shugden, he would have ordered that his name and the name of his previous incarnations be removed from the Tengyur and in the monasteries. I doubt that he would have talked so much about Dorje Shugden and allow the monks to still use materials that were created by Panchen Sonam Drakpa, and he would have removed historical prayers and records from the library, like what Sakya had did, which explains why some scholars 'fail' to find any evidence of Dorje Shugden practice in the Sakya tradition, but some scholars who were earlier than them managed to find. That aside, it seems that the Dorje Shugden movement is getting bigger than ever, and nobody can stop it now.
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Indeed, that's just one of Dalai Lama's skillful means to create a hype for Dorje Shugden, I mean if he wants to ban Shugden, he will cite reasons like Shugden is a demon, it will harm Tibet's cause, it will shorten his life...etc, so far we can see that Tibet is a lost cause, so that will be conveniently blamed on Shugden, but about the Dalai Lama part, he is still very healthy and no sign of passing anytime soon. For a 76-year old man, still traveling around the world giving teachings non-stop is quite a magnificent feat.
So of all the reasons that Dalai Lama cited "bad" about Shugden, some "came true", some does not...So the Dalai Lama is wrong in his prediction? Wrong in his perception of how harmful Shugden is?
The irony is, as the Dalai Lama lives longer (we hope so), his reason of banning Shugden (shortening his life) weakens...
It is actually happening already.... since the time the BAN's campaign started, 1996.... up untill today 2012... we do not see HHDL slowing down or any sign of his life in danger. It is in fact quite the opposite actually and the irony of it all, is that Dorje Shugden is being perpetuated even more strongly now. I mean we can hear and see more and more monasteries formed by Dorje Shugden practitioners appearing all around the world. And if really praying to Dorje Shugden can shorten HHDL life, and then it would have happened already a very long time ago.
Also with a new set of govt body, new set of ruling power, no more Dorje Shugden practice, how come we still do not hear of a dialogue on spiritual autonomy, (no need to talk about Tibet's independence as the goal was changed when they realised is was not possible) and even this is not working out. Plus going around burning yourselves, you're just creating bigger obstacles for the Tibetans and no where near achieving any favorable with China [sigh].
Perhaps HHDL has decided to dissolve the whole entire Tibetan Govt... a premeditated stance so that it all dissolves naturally?
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Indeed, that's just one of Dalai Lama's skillful means to create a hype for Dorje Shugden, I mean if he wants to ban Shugden, he will cite reasons like Shugden is a demon, it will harm Tibet's cause, it will shorten his life...etc, so far we can see that Tibet is a lost cause, so that will be conveniently blamed on Shugden, but about the Dalai Lama part, he is still very healthy and no sign of passing anytime soon. For a 76-year old man, still traveling around the world giving teachings non-stop is quite a magnificent feat.
So of all the reasons that Dalai Lama cited "bad" about Shugden, some "came true", some does not...So the Dalai Lama is wrong in his prediction? Wrong in his perception of how harmful Shugden is?
The irony is, as the Dalai Lama lives longer (we hope so), his reason of banning Shugden (shortening his life) weakens...
It is actually happening already.... since the time the BAN's campaign started, 1996.... up untill today 2012... we do not see HHDL slowing down or any sign of his life in danger. It is in fact quite the opposite actually and the irony of it all, is that Dorje Shugden is being perpetuated even more strongly now. I mean we can hear and see more and more monasteries formed by Dorje Shugden practitioners appearing all around the world. And if really praying to Dorje Shugden can shorten HHDL life, and then it would have happened already a very long time ago.
Also with a new set of govt body, new set of ruling power, no more Dorje Shugden practice, how come we still do not hear of a dialogue on spiritual autonomy, (no need to talk about Tibet's independence as the goal was changed when they realised is was not possible) and even this is not working out. Plus going around burning yourselves, you're just creating bigger obstacles for the Tibetans and no where near achieving any favorable with China [sigh].
Perhaps HHDL has decided to dissolve the whole entire Tibetan Govt... a premeditated stance so that it all dissolves naturally?
The Tibetans could have spent more time and brainpower to think of a solution to entering talks with the Chinese for autonomy/independence/whatever it is they want but instead of doing that they are stretching out their already thin resources to ban Dorje Shugden. Yes, they are successful, but only in Dharamsala and nowhere else in discriminating and oppressing Dorje Shugden practitioners. It's a tiny and insignificant achievement for 50 years of sponging off Indian soil. Wouldnt it be so much better to focus instead on working things out with the Chinese, or on development?
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it is nice to see this post resurface again, looking back and you compare with the time now. It is more apparent that not only His Holiness is as healthy as ever, still spreading dharma tirelessly and also this website has gotten to millions, the Dorje Shugden's practice has break into China and various parts of the world, more of Shugden's merchanise and images available and an increase in the number of practitioners! Dorje Shugden's practice bad? Nah, I don't think so.
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it is nice to see this post resurface again, looking back and you compare with the time now. It is more apparent that not only His Holiness is as healthy as ever, still spreading dharma tirelessly and also this website has gotten to millions, the Dorje Shugden's practice has break into China and various parts of the world, more of Shugden's merchanise and images available and an increase in the number of practitioners! Dorje Shugden's practice bad? Nah, I don't think so.
The nice thing about this topic is that it makes people think on all the reasons given about Dorje Shugden - whether or not it's real or that it is something that is not substantial, something that does not have proof or truth in them and whether or not they want to go on and believe in something just to join the club or really believe in the actual cause that Dorje Shugden actually increases spirit worship. It is finally a time for the Dalai Lama's followers to wake up and see what is going on rather than continue to have blind faith and in the process incur a lot of negative karma for themselves and harming many others in the process.
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I think the Dalai Lama has made it very clear from his reasons and claims that he is being contradictory. Yes, Ensapa is right. It's time for people to start figuring this out. If I am a Dalai Lama hardcore supporter, first I will be worried his life will be shorten. Then I will rejoice and be very happy upon hearing him say he's going to live till 90. Then I should start thinking how is this supposed to be when so many people are still practicing Dorje Shugden which can shorten his life? These are some thought process that I feel could possibly arise if one take some time for contemplation and logical thinking. Let aside the anger and blind faith.
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I think the Dalai Lama has made it very clear from his reasons and claims that he is being contradictory. Yes, Ensapa is right. It's time for people to start figuring this out. If I am a Dalai Lama hardcore supporter, first I will be worried his life will be shorten. Then I will rejoice and be very happy upon hearing him say he's going to live till 90. Then I should start thinking how is this supposed to be when so many people are still practicing Dorje Shugden which can shorten his life? These are some thought process that I feel could possibly arise if one take some time for contemplation and logical thinking. Let aside the anger and blind faith.
The reason why those people do not feel this way is pretty apparent: They do not really follow the Dalai Lama for the Dharma or for spiritual reasons, but rather because its a groupie thing: they feel that by following the Dalai Lama, they would be part of this really cool group in the world as Buddhists. But unfortunately for them, Buddhism isnt about being in a group in that way. Buddhism is about transforming the mind and also getting rid of bad habits so too bad for them, in a way.
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I guess the threat of Dorje Shugden practice shortening the Dalai Lama's life may be believable to some Tibetans living in fear and superstition but it does not work for foreign practitioners of Dorje Shugden who are seeking a religious tradition that makes logical sense. How can someone with refuge like the Dalai Lama be harmed by Dorje Shugden? It doesn't make sense. This has been said many times over but it has got to said again.
Anyway, from this website we can see that Dorje Shugden practice is growing in the world and even Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and the other great Dorje Shugden Lamas are coming out to travel and teach once more. There doesn't seem to be any effect upon the health of the Dalai Lama. He looks so healthy and may live for another hundred years or so.
For me, the Dalai Lama is definitely doing something with this ban and it is definitely not to extend his life. To me, that's very obvious and I am not really trying to create some kind of controversy but the results of the ban is pretty plain to see - the strong practitioners have remained steadfast, some are secretly practicing while others are mobilizing for the time when the ban gets lifted to spread Dorje Shugden out into the world.
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I guess the threat of Dorje Shugden practice shortening the Dalai Lama's life may be believable to some Tibetans living in fear and superstition but it does not work for foreign practitioners of Dorje Shugden who are seeking a religious tradition that makes logical sense. How can someone with refuge like the Dalai Lama be harmed by Dorje Shugden? It doesn't make sense. This has been said many times over but it has got to said again.
Anyway, from this website we can see that Dorje Shugden practice is growing in the world and even Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and the other great Dorje Shugden Lamas are coming out to travel and teach once more. There doesn't seem to be any effect upon the health of the Dalai Lama. He looks so healthy and may live for another hundred years or so.
For me, the Dalai Lama is definitely doing something with this ban and it is definitely not to extend his life. To me, that's very obvious and I am not really trying to create some kind of controversy but the results of the ban is pretty plain to see - the strong practitioners have remained steadfast, some are secretly practicing while others are mobilizing for the time when the ban gets lifted to spread Dorje Shugden out into the world.
Surprisingly, there are Buddhists outside of Dharamsala that really believes that Dorje Shugden will harm the Dalai Lama. I personally find this phenomena astounding in many ways because these people are educated Buddhists who could have done better research and who could have used their logic to discern what is right or wrong or actually study everything with an unbiased mind and come up with their own conclusions. Until now, there are many of these Buddhists trying to show the world how bad Dorje Shugden is by parroting the Dalai Lama's words or making up crazy stories of their own. There's always something interesting....
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The answer is so obvious, of course not! How would an enlightened Buddha harm someone? Have you ever seen Tsongkhapa or Kuanyin hurting someone? Buddhas do not hurt people, what do they get from it anyway? And if someone were to ask, how do you know if Dorje Shugden is an enlightened Buddha?. Please go home, do some research on this website, and study His story well, if Dorje Shugden were a ''demon'' or ''spirit'' which He's not even in that category, why didn't HH do some rituals so ''expel'' Him? HH definitely has the ability do so if He really is a spirit. Think about it please.
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The Tibetans or the Pro-Dalai Lama supporters must use logic and senses to see clearly that Dorje Shugden Practice DOES NOT SHORTENS HIS HOLINESS LIFE, instead it seems to increase HHDL lifes, and looking healthy too. How could a manifestation of Chenrezig can easily be affected a "spirit", since Chenrezig is the Mother of compassion whose Boddhicitta towards the suffering of the sentient being who is still in the 6 realms of Samsara. The power of Boddhichitta could not be destroy even is Dorje Shugden is really a spirit, but instead, DS is not a spirit, but the manifestation of an enlighten mind and who is no other than the Wisdom Buddha Manjushri, who is also Lama Tsongkhapa, who is also Shakya Panditta, Mahasiddha Virupa, and Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen.
This is why Dorje Shugden is not a spirit, because He is an Enlighten Protector, who is only to help and protect the Dharma, in this case HHDL is protected and have a long life because HHDL is Chenrezig.
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The Dalai Lama himself was apparently urged by Trijang Rinpoche to undertake the practice of Dorje Shugden and eventually declined. For some time His Holiness has been sensitive to the problems with this practice in promoting a perceived sectarianism, and he had urged that the practice be undertaken only in private and not promulgated. He also said that those who would take himself as a spiritual master and respect him, and those who work for the Tibetan Government in Exile, should not engage in the practice of Dorje Shugden. This means also that those who would take Tantric initiations from him should not engage in the practice either. If a Tantric master gives initiation to those who take refuge in a worldly god and therefore do not have a pure Buddhist refuge then this can rebound on the health and life of the Tantric master. I suspect this is the primary point behind the Dalai Lama’s reported claim that engaging in the practice of Dorje Shugden might shorten his life. It looks as though what has happened is that recently he has started to put this opposition to the practice of Dorje Shugden forward with greater urgency, perhaps in connection with his attempts to encourage a democratic political system for the Tibetans within which the old sectarian and regional rivalries and antagonisms could have no place.
http://info-buddhism.com/dorje_shugden_note_Paul_Williams.html (http://info-buddhism.com/dorje_shugden_note_Paul_Williams.html)
If that is the case, why can't I practice Dorje Shugden if the Dalai Lama is neither my Guru nor my Tantric master? If the above is not correct, how then can this practice shorten the Dalai Lama's life?
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Interesting the the above should promote an anti-Shugden website that is used to slander anyone who openly criticizes the False Dalai Lama!
Let us do the maths - The False Dalai Lama is 80 years old, already out-stripping the average life expectancy of an exile Tibetan by 13 years.
Let us use Dharma - now can the Compassionate mind of a Buddha (Dharmapala Dorje Shugden) harm any sentient being?
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The current Dalai Lama is one of the longest living Dalai Lama of all times in fact.
Also how can a spirit or demon harm a monk who holds his vows, thats ridiculous.
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The year is now 2015. In a few months time, on 6th July, the Dalai Lama will be celebrating his 80th Birthday. He is the longest serving Dalai Lama, the longest in office. So does this ring a bell to those who still believe that Dorje Shugden really shorten the Dalai Lama's life?
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In the video on YouTube above, HHDL said he will live longer than his 80 year old till his 90s and then he said he will hold a meeting to talk to his people to hear what they will say. That means it is a clear Signal that HHDL is in Control of his Age totally.
Now this issue of Dorje Shugden shortening his life is in fact Untrue thus far. The practice of DS and the ban on DS has in fact lengthen HHDL's life.
So the next question is - is HHDL purposely impose the Ban on DS to raise awareness to protect the Buddhist lineage and to deceive certain country? Yes.
Has the Ban brought on more benefits rather than destruction? More and more Buddhists dharma centres like NKT has sprung up.
And because of the DS ban, has many more people became Buddhists, learn more about Buddhism and support Buddhism? Buddhism has become on of the fastest growing religion in the world.
Has the DS ban brought more love, care, compassion to the world in general? Yes. Even certain world leaders have started practicing them, like Do Good program and encourage volunteerism.
Has the world become a better place? If we do that Buddhist practice say, the world has become a better place, at least within those who practices well.
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I saw this article on the forum and I had to comment on this.
Hello!!Dalai Lama is 80 this year (2015) Isn't that a long life? While this ban is going on, Shugden practice has flourished far and wide over the last over 10 years. Example NKT has already 1,100 centre around the world and they are still growing. What about all the DS monasteries in Tibet which in one teachings thousands and thousands of worshipper attend and gets the teachings? Even in on my part alone (an individual), my whole family plus my good friendsssss are all praying to Shugden.
Seriously, I do hope and pray respectfully that he lives up to 200 years. But it just doesn't make any sense when this comment or remark/threat is given to the Shugden practioners or Tibetan in general.
When I entered Tibetan Buddhism, the first thing I was taught was Guru Devotion and we must always keep our relationship clean and intact with your teacher/s. Thus, I was shocked when Dalai Lama recently gave a teaching in Gaden Shartse recently and undermining Trijang Rinpoche (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/dalai-lama-used-2014-lamrim-teachings-to-undermine-his-guru/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/dalai-lama-used-2014-lamrim-teachings-to-undermine-his-guru/)) Wow, I was really taken aback which really disturbed me even more. This does not make any sense at all. What happened to Guru Devotion? Does that mean whatever Dalai Lama has received from Trijang Rinpoche has all been washed down. This shouldn't be the case.
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I think after all these year of the ban HH Dalai Lama is still very healthy travel around no any problem about his health so how can the blame be on DorjeShugden practice is very untrue any practitioner who has sense should look at this matter with logic do not put the blame on DS .
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Definitely not. There is no logic on the claim that Dorje Shugden can shorten the life of His Holiness the Dalai Lama. Since Dorje Shugden is the emanation of Buddha Manjushri, while HHDL is the emanation of Buddha Avalokiteshvara, it does not make sense that one Buddha would want to shorten the life of another Buddha.
Even if one is not a Buddhist and does not believe in Buddhas, look how healthy and fit HHDL is and His Holiness will turn 80 years in a few months time.
Many people are seeing through this old excuse already. I really wish the ban on the Shugden practice would be lifted very soon for the benefits of the people who have suffered so much as a result of this ban.
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[Thursday, June 15, 2017 20:20]
By Tenzin Monlam
His Holiness is in excellent health: Representative Penpa Tsering
So what is it to be dear Tibetan leadership in exile?
You claim that Dorje Shugden shortens HH Dalai Lama's life but yet HH Dalai Lama is proving not to be affected by the millions and soon more millions of people propitiating Dorje Shugden. How do you explain this except for the fact that Dorje Shugden is a compassionate enlightened being?
http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=39157&article=His+Holiness+is+in+excellent+health%3a+Representative+Penpa+Tsering (http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=39157&article=His+Holiness+is+in+excellent+health%3a+Representative+Penpa+Tsering)
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Excuse me, the Dalai Lama is 80- years old and still travelling and teaching and apparently very healthy. And, there are still more Dorje Shugden practitioners abound. Besides, claiming that an evil spirit can harm Avalokiteshvara is a bit of a puzzle. If a Buddha can be harmed by an evil spirit, is he still a Buddha? If a high lama can be harmed by evil spirits, is there hope for the common man who has no attainments?
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If I am correct, I read it some where that the Dalai Lama actually said that HH is living till beyond 100 years old meaning his claim of HH will have shorter life if p
Devotees pray to Dorje Shugden. So how will this story link now. Makes us think whether what HHDL initially claimed of Dorje Shugden are actually true.
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It is a fact that after all the years the Dalai Lama has stopped practicing Dorje Shugden, no harm has been done to him in any way. And there was anyway never any risk. So it would be a big relief for the Tibetans and all the Dorje Shugden practitioners and their family and friends to end this ban which never had any base to it.
Lets stop politics and support all Tibetans!
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I find it very contradicting to say Dorje Shugden shorten the life of the practitioners especially H.H. Dalai Lama. If by practising Dorje Shugden shorten one's life, then the 101st and 102nd Gaden Tripa are the prove for us to see that by practising Dorje Shugden brings no harm to us and will not shorten our lives. Dorje Shugden protects and clears our obstacles for our spiritual journey. Dorje Shugden is Manjushri. So, let's think about it rationally.
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Recently H.H Dalai Lama says many things that is contradicting what he said previously. We all know that H.H Dalai Lama is the emanation of Chenrezig. First of all, an enlightened being like Dalai Lama, who is also an emanation of Chenrezig, whose life shouldn't be affected by any negative forces, if Dorje Shugden was one like what Dalai Lama had claimed. Secondly, there are many high Lama who practice Dorje Shugden has lived long, and some even reincarnated. For example 101st and 102nd Gaden Tripa who have lived long and practice Dorje Shugden. H.H Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and H.H Kaybje Zong Rinpoche are the high Lamas that practice Dorje Shugden and have proven reincarnation. In Buddhism, one's long life or not, depends on their karma, why blame on the practice?
Thus, since this statement "Practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten Dalai Lama's life" came out from Dalai Lama's mouth, we should ask His Holiness back "Why practicing Dorje Shugden will shorten his life since there are so many high Lama already practicing it and live a long life?"
Anyway, personally, I find that recently Dalai Lama says many things that's contradicting. He also claimed that he never said cannot practice Dorje Shugden before, he never wanted Tibet independent, he even claimed that he never ban Dorje Shugden practice before. So, which one is true? Anyway, he's not my Guru. I don't have to listen to all he says, but I still respect H.H Dalai Lama, it is because I believe whatever Dalai Lama says or said, there must be something behind. He is Chenrezig, I believe all these are his divine play.
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Looks like it is very possible for the Dalai Lama to live up to 90 or 100 years of age. With His longevity of life, it is proven beyond doubts that Dorje Shugden cannot do harm to Him as He has claimed to be so.
As so many here have commented, enlightened beings like the Dalai Lama cannot be harmed by evil spirits. So one of the main reasons for Dalai Lama to impose the ban is baseless. Another view to consider which I do is that Dorje Shugden is not a evil spirit but AN ENLIGHTENED BEING AND AS SUCH IS NOT CAPABLE OF HARMING ANY BEINGS. This is the valid conclusion to debunk the calling of Dorje Shugden as a evil spirit.
I rejoice that the Dalai Lama may live to 90 or 100 years of age, but then do we Shugdenpas also suffer the ban for another period of over 15 years or so. That I feel is not fair and totally nonsense.
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Looks like it is very possible for the Dalai Lama to live up to 90 or 100 years of age. With His longevity of life, it is proven beyond doubts that Dorje Shugden cannot do harm to Him as He has claimed to be so.
Placing the evil dalie where he belongs, the garbage bin of history, would not harm but rather benefit him. But even a supramundane protector such as Dorje Shugden cannot do anything about it, as long as Shugdenpas themselves show servile subservience to the evil monster.
As so many here have commented, enlightened beings like the Dalai Lama cannot be harmed by evil spirits.
Being an evil spirit himself, the evil dalie requires no one to harm him. However, some Shugdenpas are harmed by the evil dalie, because betraying their refuge in the Three Jewels they take refuge in the evil spirit, the monstrous dalie.
So one of the main reasons for Dalai Lama to impose the ban is baseless.
And what is even more baseless is Shugdenpas servilely submitting to the evil dalie's authority, and then complaining about it!
Another view to consider which I do is that Dorje Shugden is not a evil spirit but AN ENLIGHTENED BEING AND AS SUCH IS NOT CAPABLE OF HARMING ANY BEINGS. This is the valid conclusion to debunk the calling of Dorje Shugden as a evil spirit.
You should consider better your own correct view, and therefore abandon subservience to the evil dalie.
I rejoice that the Dalai Lama may live to 90 or 100 years of age, but then do we Shugdenpas also suffer the ban for another period of over 15 years or so. That I feel is not fair and totally nonsense.
What would you expect, since many Shugdenpas are so subservient to the evil dalie? As long as this situation remains, the ban makes perfect sense.
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What a huge big lie this is as we can SEE NOW... what happened to praying to Dorje Shugden shorten's His Holiness's life? All a load of nonsense BS.
Now in this latest news His Holiness said Tibet’s protector deity Palden Lhamo assured him that he will live till 110 years at least, he added, “Although I am 84 now, I am healthy and confident about living upto 111.”
Well, in a way I do hope His Holiness will get his wish to be able to return to Tibet to see his people but I doubt the Umaylam way will be achieved especially if Tibetans keep creating problems like the recent protest they did to show solidarity with HK, and with LS going around saying things that would irk/provoke China further. Now internally they are ones creating the cause to lose Tibet forever. Don't go blaming Dorje Shugden.
Although many are requesting His Holiness to slow down due age... His Holiness is still travelling. He is set to travel to Mangalore after Manali news report.
His Holiness reassures Tibetans of his "excellent health"
DHARAMSHALA, August 20: His Holiness the Dalai Lama reassured board members of the Tibetan Association of Minnesota (TAM), who visited him at Von Ngari Monastery in Manali that he is healthy and will live long.
The 6-member executive board of TAM, in an audience with His Holiness on Monday, urged him to visit Mayo Clinic in the US for a health checkup.
The Tibetan spiritual leader thanked the visitors for their constant concern and told them he had started taking special care of his health and visiting a hospital in New Delhi which is also closer in case of emergency.
His Holiness had visited the famous clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, regularly in the past for annual checkup, discontinued now owing to the difficulty in long-distance travel in old age.
His Holiness mentioned a tumultuous flight to eastern India one time that got him introspecting about his health and the hopes of 6 million Tibetans that rest on him.
“Just as Tibetans never forget about me, I never forget about the 6 million Tibetan people.”
He recounted a dream he had a while ago in which the Tibet’s protector deity Palden Lhamo assured him that he will live till 110 years at least, he added, “Although I am 84 now, I am healthy and confident about living upto 111.”
He was briefly hospitalized in Max Hospital, Delhi in April this year for a chest infection that caused the Tibetans and well-wishers around the world to worry about his wellbeing.
Tibetans all around the world continues to urge for a less hectic schedule for their spiritual leader to leave room for much-needed rest.
His Holiness is going to rest at the monastery till August 28 after which he is set to travel to Mangalore.
Source: [url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41689&article=His+Holiness+reassures+Tibetans+of+his+%22excellent+health%22[/url] ([url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41689&article=His+Holiness+reassures+Tibetans+of+his+%22excellent+health%22[/url])
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What a huge big lie this is as we can SEE NOW... what happened to praying to Dorje Shugden shorten's His Holiness's life? All a load of nonsense BS.
Now in this latest news His Holiness said Tibet’s protector deity Palden Lhamo assured him that he will live till 110 years at least, he added, “Although I am 84 now, I am healthy and confident about living upto 111.”
Well, in a way I do hope His Holiness will get his wish to be able to return to Tibet to see his people but I doubt the Umaylam way will be achieved especially if Tibetans keep creating problems like the recent protest they did to show solidarity with HK, and with LS going around saying things that would irk/provoke China further. Now internally they are ones creating the cause to lose Tibet forever. Don't go blaming Dorje Shugden.
Although many are requesting His Holiness to slow down due age... His Holiness is still travelling. He is set to travel to Mangalore after Manali news report.
His Holiness reassures Tibetans of his "excellent health"
DHARAMSHALA, August 20: His Holiness the Dalai Lama reassured board members of the Tibetan Association of Minnesota (TAM), who visited him at Von Ngari Monastery in Manali that he is healthy and will live long.
The 6-member executive board of TAM, in an audience with His Holiness on Monday, urged him to visit Mayo Clinic in the US for a health checkup.
The Tibetan spiritual leader thanked the visitors for their constant concern and told them he had started taking special care of his health and visiting a hospital in New Delhi which is also closer in case of emergency.
His Holiness had visited the famous clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, regularly in the past for annual checkup, discontinued now owing to the difficulty in long-distance travel in old age.
His Holiness mentioned a tumultuous flight to eastern India one time that got him introspecting about his health and the hopes of 6 million Tibetans that rest on him.
“Just as Tibetans never forget about me, I never forget about the 6 million Tibetan people.”
He recounted a dream he had a while ago in which the Tibet’s protector deity Palden Lhamo assured him that he will live till 110 years at least, he added, “Although I am 84 now, I am healthy and confident about living upto 111.”
He was briefly hospitalized in Max Hospital, Delhi in April this year for a chest infection that caused the Tibetans and well-wishers around the world to worry about his wellbeing.
Tibetans all around the world continues to urge for a less hectic schedule for their spiritual leader to leave room for much-needed rest.
His Holiness is going to rest at the monastery till August 28 after which he is set to travel to Mangalore.
Source: [url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41689&article=His+Holiness+reassures+Tibetans+of+his+%22excellent+health%22[/url] ([url]http://www.phayul.com/news/article.aspx?id=41689&article=His+Holiness+reassures+Tibetans+of+his+%22excellent+health%22[/url])
How can Dorje Shugden shorten the Dalai Lama's life? If Dorje Shugden can do that, it means he has the power to override our Karma. This is impossible because the Buddha said everything that happens to us, is due to our action. No one, not even the Buddha can magically create an effect that is without the cause. However, Buddha can guide us how to change our karma or minimise the effect of our karma.
The CTA claim Dorje Shugden practice can shorten the Dalai Lama's life but he is now 84 years old, how to explain that? Did the CTA tell lie again?
Dorje Shugden is an emanation of Manjushri who is an enlightened being. It is absolutely safe for us to take refuge in Dorje Shugden. Modern people needs a protector practice to remove obstacles and Dorje Shugden arose 400 years ago for this purpose.
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If Dorje Shugden can harm His Holiness the Dalai Lama's life, we are belittling the attainments of His Holiness who is believed to be the emanation of Buddha of Compassion, Chenrezig. There is no way an evil spirit can harm a high lama, let alone a fully enlightened Buddha. If that is the case, why are we even Buddhism?
Anyone with basic Dharma knowledge will be able to know that a fully enlightened Buddha does not have the karma to be harmed. On the other hand, high lamas like His Holiness has very high attainments that can easily exorcise evil spirits or subdue them. There are plenty of examples where high lamas subdued spirits with their compassion such as Guru Rinpoche with Nechung.
Hence, those who believe this nonsense about Dorje Shugden can harm His Holiness's life does not have a lot of Dharma knowledge.
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If we believe that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the emanation of the Buddha of Compassion then how can Dorje Shugden harm him? In fact, His Holiness should be able to subdue Dorje Shugden if he really an evil spirit to prevent many people from being harmed just like any other highly attaint lama who subdue unenlightened being and make them swear to protect the Dharma and etc.
Furthermore, look at His Holiness now, does is life in threatening state? People are still practicing Dorje Shugden but there is nothing happen to His Holiness. Why state the reason for Dorje Shugden practice will shorten His Holiness life? This is totally invalid and proven a lie. Tibetan leadership should clarify their action on imposing ban on Dorje Shugden which created more severe suffering to the Dorje Shugden practitioners which violating religious freedom and human rights. All the lies that Tibetan leadership tells should be questioned now.
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If we believe that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the emanation of the Buddha of Compassion then how can Dorje Shugden harm him? In fact, His Holiness should be able to subdue Dorje Shugden if he really an evil spirit to prevent many people from being harmed just like any other highly attaint lama who subdue unenlightened being and make them swear to protect the Dharma and etc.
Furthermore, look at His Holiness now, does is life in threatening state? People are still practicing Dorje Shugden but there is nothing happen to His Holiness. Why state the reason for Dorje Shugden practice will shorten His Holiness life? This is totally invalid and proven a lie. Tibetan leadership should clarify their action on imposing ban on Dorje Shugden which created more severe suffering to the Dorje Shugden practitioners which violating religious freedom and human rights. All the lies that Tibetan leadership tells should be questioned now.
Most people believe His Holiness the Dalai Lama is the emanation of Chenrezig. He represents compassion. However, what he has done to Dorje Shugden and Dorje Shugden followers is not compassionate, many people suffer because of the ban.
But on the other hand, since he is a Buddha, he has the clairvoyance to know the karma of all sentient beings and what needs to be done to help all sentient beings. Sometimes, the action of a higher beings seems to be unreasonable but it is to benefit us in long run and we don't have the karma to see it.
On that basis, we have to still respect the Dalai Lama if we believe he is and Buddha is one. Like what Trijang Rinpoche had said, we have to have faith in both the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. They may appear to have a conflict but they are not. One day, the truth will reveal.
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I think this question is not valid anymore because we can see Dalai Lama still standing strong now and he said he's well. Since this is the case can we consider the claimed as a lie? Should Tibetan leadership explain and clarify this matter? It's necessary because the ban had caused so much unnecessary suffering to so many people and if what has been claimed is not true, Tibetan leadership needs to lift the ban and reinstate Shugden practitioner's rights for their basic necessity.
Tibetan leadership cannot simply create havoc and just leave it like that. They have to be responsible for their actions and answer to their people. If Tibetan leadership claimed that they are democratic then pls act like one and have a dialogue with Tibetans and explain the situation. Dialogue is what Dalai Lama wants with China to discuss for their return to Tibet. Then dialogue should be heald between Tibetan leadership with the Tibetans including Shugden practitioners to discuss over the ban that being imposed and Tibetan leadership need to explain what is the outcome from the ban and how this ban has benefitted Dalai Lama and Tibetan as a whole. What Tibetan leadership had achieved from this ban. A dialogue must heald as democratic leaders as claimed by the Dalai Lama.
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I think this question is not valid anymore because we can see Dalai Lama still standing strong now and he said he's well. Since this is the case can we consider the claimed as a lie? Should Tibetan leadership explain and clarify this matter? It's necessary because the ban had caused so much unnecessary suffering to so many people and if what has been claimed is not true, Tibetan leadership needs to lift the ban and reinstate Shugden practitioner's rights for their basic necessity.
Tibetan leadership cannot simply create havoc and just leave it like that. They have to be responsible for their actions and answer to their people. If Tibetan leadership claimed that they are democratic then pls act like one and have a dialogue with Tibetans and explain the situation. Dialogue is what Dalai Lama wants with China to discuss for their return to Tibet. Then dialogue should be heald between Tibetan leadership with the Tibetans including Shugden practitioners to discuss over the ban that being imposed and Tibetan leadership need to explain what is the outcome from the ban and how this ban has benefitted Dalai Lama and Tibetan as a whole. What Tibetan leadership had achieved from this ban. A dialogue must heald as democratic leaders as claimed by the Dalai Lama.
I don't think practising Dorje Shugden will shorten the Dalai Lama's life. The Dalai Lama is the emanation of Chenrezig, he does not have the karma to be harmed. He was diagnosed with cancer but he recovered. He is in fact one of the longest living Dalai Lama. Many previous Dalai Lamas passed away quite young and there was no mention of being harmed by Dorje Shugden.
It is ridiculous to say a deity practice will shorten someone's life. How about people who practise voodoos, whose life will they shorten? If we believe in karma, the cause and effect, then we will know unless we have created the cause, otherwise we will not get the result.
Sometimes higher beings might say something that is not true. This is not to lie to us but to make us examine and make a conclusion ourselves. Buddha Shakyamuni's teaching has never been a blind faith, he asked us to experience it or to examine it before we make a conclusion. We are not asked to believe everything the Buddha say, we are told to examine and conclude.
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Well, all we gotta do is look at the Dalai Lama now people. He is all well and very healthy and still teaching isn't he?
If Dorje Shugden really CAN shorten His Holiness's life, wouldn't he be already gone by now? Why is he still around since we have Shar Gaden, Serpom, and soooo many more Dorje Shugden loyal students, centres and let's not forget NKT - biggest DS practising centre in the world and in Tibet all those monasteries still do Dorje Shugden... how it is NOT affecting the Dalai Lama's health/life? Let's get real and be logical please... obviously all that's been said about Dorje Shugden is a big fat LIE. For what reason is the BIG question!
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Well, all we gotta do is look at the Dalai Lama now people. He is all well and very healthy and still teaching isn't he?
If Dorje Shugden really CAN shorten His Holiness's life, wouldn't he be already gone by now? Why is he still around since we have Shar Gaden, Serpom, and soooo many more Dorje Shugden loyal students, centres and let's not forget NKT - biggest DS practising centre in the world and in Tibet all those monasteries still do Dorje Shugden... how it is NOT affecting the Dalai Lama's health/life? Let's get real and be logical please... obviously all that's been said about Dorje Shugden is a big fat LIE. For what reason is the BIG question!
Dorje Shugden practice cannot shorten anyone's life. It is our own karma that decides how long we will live. If we want to have a long life, create the cause for it. The current Dalai Lama is one of the longest living Dalai Lama, I wish His Holiness live long and continue to turn the wheel of Dharma to benefit many. Some people say the Dalai Lama is actually spreading Dorje Shugden practice by going against it strongly. This is quite possible, Dorje Shugden is the most famous protector in the world now. Even non-Buddhists know about Dorje Shugden. Sometimes we need negative news to get noticed.