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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: KhedrubGyatso on April 09, 2012, 02:55:46 PM
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I have been asked this question in one of my dharma classes whether making merit which in the end will bring benefits to oneself is something that is done out of self-interested motifs or not. For example, one wishes to become a Buddha as a result of making the merit; is this actually a pure motivation as one wishes ultimately to gain something for oneself?
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According to H.H. the Dalai Lama, there are two types of desire: positive desire and negative desire. Wanting to be a Buddha for the sake of others is positive desire. In order to become a Bodhisattva, one needs a lot of merits. A great master once said that to be a Bodhisattva, one needs merits as vast as space! So it's not easy at all. When we make merits we can dedicate them to our future enlightenment so they won't be lost. It looks like we are doing it out of self-interest as KhedrubGyatso says, but those who know dharma are aware that in the final analysis, there is no self-interest involved. Ultimately, it is the deep compassion one feels for others that is the main motivating factor. The vows that Bodhisattvas make are all in the interest of others.
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I have been asked this question in one of my dharma classes whether making merit which in the end will bring benefits to oneself is something that is done out of self-interested motifs or not. For example, one wishes to become a Buddha as a result of making the merit; is this actually a pure motivation as one wishes ultimately to gain something for oneself?
Hmm... if one practices the 8 verses of mind transformation, then he/she will see the kindness of all sentient beings and generate the motivation to reach enlightenment for the sake of all sentient beings. Because it is only through them that we are able to practice the Dharma, and to achieve the qualities of a Buddha. So thinking of them this way, we realize how important these beings are to us and thus develop a sense of compassion towards them, to free them off the chains of samsara... If one cannot think of such, then they are no where close to a Bodhisattva.
Besides, the merits generated with a motivation purely for self... is just too small... and the fact that the thought of 'self' is there, is not going to help because as long as we think about the 'I', there can never be pure motivation that is free of the 8 worldly concerns.
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I believe the pure motivation come into consideration. If a person wishes to become a Buddha, the motivation to become a Buddha definitely to benefits others else how can one achieve Buddhahood.
Merits gain from this taught and action does look like for the individual but in a bigger scale looking at this scenario it definitely for a bigger reasoning which becoming a Buddha to liberate more people.
If making merits to benefit just oneself, it sounds like selfish motive how can one gain merits?
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I agree with Tenzin completely. The most important thing that determines if one gains merits or not is motivation. Therefore we are taught to make the motivation to benefit others in order to gain merits. Therefore if our motivation to become a Buddha is to benefit others then it certainly is not a selfish action.
On the other hand, what if our motivation is not to benefit others but to gain glory and recognition for oneself, then the goal is worthy but the motivation is not. Therefore not only does one not gain merits, but one is also selfish for wanting to become a Buddha. Ironic that the goal can be correct yet the incorrect motivation destroys everything. Hope that helps.
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Those who believe and understand the dharma will want to gain a better rebirth,therefore will want to accumlulate merits."Buying" good karma is not possible by donating to a sangha if that is the intention.It is about the motivation for the action.The object of the action,the action itself and the result of the action.This is similar to charity being given to satisfy the ego of the giver.
The ultimate act of compassion and charity is to donate to those whom one feels no connection and no affinity.Helping someone we dislike (although we shouldn't dislike anyone) gain far more merit.
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It is a mistake to think that by dedicating merits to others we may lose the benefit of the merit gained. When we dedicate merits to all sentient beings, of course individuals such as ourselves benefit too as we are also one of the sentient beings.
Dedicating merits to others in no way "dilutes" the power of the merits and in fact it may even be said that the dedication of merits firstly, to all sentient beings generates superior effects. I would say that the genuine dedication of merits to others (all sentient beings) is the beginning of the understanding of compassion and selflessness.
It is only via our still self grasping mind that we can even imagine that a merit generated is like any other commodity in the samsaric world. That we need to horde it away and keep it for ourselves.
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From what I understand, we can only collect merit from the merit field (such as from temple, carry out assignments by qualified Lamas, etc), and with correct motivation, i.e. towards Buddhahood, which is ALWAYS for the benefit of others. If we have motivation to become Buddha, which is always for the benefit of others, how can that be selfish?
So if we build temples but our motivation is to have more wealth for our family enjoyment, technically, we do not collect any merits, though we would collect good karma.
So, technically, you cannot collect merits and be selfish at the same time :)
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Yes and no…
Most of us are scared of death one way or another. By realizing the dharma or understanding the dharma most people will prepare themselves to gain merits to save oneself and their love one first. So this is already a selfish action. But alto the action are selfish it was done in a positive way as serving the dharma and the Lama it really does benefits a lot of other people. Is like a copy cat system where the Lama teaches the student then the student start to teach another student what they are doing and it continues so that one day not a single soul are left in samsara. So in terms of this, it is not a selfish action.
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By definition, one can only generate true merit if one is doing the work in relation and by being motivated by great compassion/boddhicitta. As most of us are not so pure in our motivations, we technically cannot generate true merits. What we can generate is only good karma. We can only generate merits through the power of Guru Devotion by doing the work of the Guru. Because the Guru has great compassion; all his work and hence, our work is selfless.
Hence, we can say making merits to benefit oneself is NOT a selfish action. On the other hand, selfish action can only make good karma.
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I think whether making merit to benefit oneself is or isn't a selfish action depends on the altruism of one's primary motivation. Even wishing to become a Buddha to benefit others is a motivation that has to be examined and reflected on.Is the aspiration that of wishing to be a Buddha the primary aspiration/motivation or is the primary aspiration that of wishing to liberate all beings from suffering? And seeing then that one needs to become fully enlightened and attain full Buddhahood in order to be able to liberate all beings from suffering? Again, is the aspiration to be a Buddha tinged with a contaminated feeling of pride and ego?
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Is making merit to benefit oneself a selfish action ?
Definitely NO.
True merits are generated only if the deeds are motivated by the mind of renunciation.
Objects that is forsaken by the mind of renunciation is samsara. Samsara does not exist outside ourselves. Samsara is the uncontrolled rebirth caused by actions of negative body, speech and mind arise from selfishness .
If one's wish is to generate merits with a mind of renunciation and the pure motive to ultimately benefits others, this action is noble and certainly not a selfish one.
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I don't think making merit to benefit oneself is a selfish action if our motivation is pure. In order for us to reach Buddhahood, we need tremendous merits for ourselves and it may take eons and many lifetimes to accumulate these merits. When we reach Buddhahood, we will be able to help and bring benefits to others; to liberate all beings from sufferings. Thus it is in fact a very noble action. We have to help our self before we can help others.
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If your motivation is pure in your wish to attain Buddhahood so that you may be beneficial to others, then to benefit oneself is not selfish; you benefit yourself to benefit others in the end. It goes around.
However if your wish is to benefit yourself for yourself only, then it is selfish as no other beings get the benefit.
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As some of you mentioned here.... it is indeed always the motivation behind our actions. If we are "selfish" for making merits in order to gain boddhichita and benefit others why not? The eventual motivation is pure and selfless regardless of how the perception of "wanting" it may seem...
Hence it is always important to check our motivation when it comes to the things that drive us, what we want to achieve and how we achieve it!
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Yes I agree. It all boils down to our motivation. If our motivation is to acquire more merits for our dharma practice (which we need a lot) in order to gain wisdom, realizations and eventually attainments so we can benefit many. I think this selfish reason is valid. There are of course some who have the wisdom of buddhadharma but do not do anything for the sentient beings... But with the attainments and wisdom, i am sure there will come a time the karma triggers and they will do something remarkable? I don't know if it's how it works...
For example, I remembered once I had a discussion with some practitioners. Some asked, what is the point for releasing fishes and birds knowing that they will get caught again and be sold or slaughter. Then someone answered: yes, we might not save a lot but it to create the causes to inspire people to follow the act. If many decide it is a good act to do, more will be save eventually.
Then the other asked, then what about someone like His Holiness? Wouldn't he be very busy all day running around to save sentient beings? One answered, if he could he would, but he gave dharma teachings, because dharma wisdom is the source for people to have realization and mind transformation, it is more powerful than virtuous act. With wisdom, only you can help people.
So I thought wow, it made sense... No matter how we must save our self only we can reach out to people. Hence, we must first improve on ourself and along the way train our mind and actions to be virtuous, gain merits so eventually we will have more to help people.
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Truly base on motivation and making merit is to prepare one’s mind and thoughts.The mind has to be purified and ready. Gaining merit, however, must not bring any trouble or worry to oneself or others.
therefor in order to gain merit definitely not to benefit oneself a selfish action.
If making merits are perfectly met with good motivation, it represents a great merit making. But most of people see that making merit is to give alms. That is partly true because it is the first step of a fully-gained merit.
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With the little dharma know that I have, I don't think anyone could be a Buddha without the motivation of benefitting other sentient beings. Without the movitation of benefitting other sentient beings, compasision, hence Bodhicitta would not arise. Without Bodhicitta, enlightenment would not be possible.
It is a long route to enlightenment, we must have the right motivation and our mind must be transformed, shaking away negative habituation and bad karma accumulated from beginning less time. This is not easy, given that almost everyone around us are raised the 'wrong' way, where we are expected to go through life the 'normal way', go to school, get a good job, get married, have family, enjoy our golden years and die! Just another lifetime wasted.
I wish we could not only change our mindset but also change the perception, so more and more people would embark in spiritual path and get ourselves out of samsara.
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Yes, we all come to a conclusion that it is the motivation which will determine the generation of merits or good karma. So its either for all sentient being (highest level?) Or for one's parents (lowest level of motivatio)n. Will the amount of merits be still the same? Just aking.
The way I look at it, it should not be the same simply because one is to benefit so so many compared to the latter. I could be wrong, maybe some of you guys can explain to me and help me with the more understanding of generating merits. Sometimes I do feel its a little selfish to generate for oneself but then again, you gotto be good yourself before you can actually take care of others.
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First of all, I think we should ask ourselves why do we need merit? Having the merits would allow one to progress on their spiritual journey. Having the merits would allow one to gain attainments and realizations, Having the merits would allow one to understand the Dharma better.
So, I feel that initially, making merit to benefit onself is understandable - Better to make merit than none at all! It may be selfish, but as you go along the way, and you learn more, understand more and gain realizations, then the motivation changes progressively.
Take for example if one works in an organisation to spread the Dharma. What does it take for you to stay in the organisation? Merits. So you are making merit to benefit yourself so that you can stay in the organisation longer - and that's what you think; that it's for yourself. But what you may not realise is that by staying in the organisation, you may be able to spread the Dharma and benefit so many others. So from an initial selfish thought, you indirectly benefit so much more, and create more merits without realising it. So is that a selfish action?
However I do agree that the motivation is of utmost importance, but seriously, how and who are we to be able to operate out of pure motivations for others. I guess we are all far from it, so the first step - making merit to benefit oneself, is a good ground to start I feel.
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Like many of you, I agree that motivation is important. In Buddhism, collecting merits is a foundation. I have once heard that we need to have the merits to even gain knowledge for wisdom... From this I can only conclude that we need to collect merits to gain virtue. And being so will then be able to share and benefit others.
Like I always say, knowledge is key to understanding why we do what we do... Blind faith does not stay and can waiver. I found this link on merits which I hope will provide you with more information:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/merit.html (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/study/merit.html)
Merit : A Study Guide by Thanissaro Bhikkhu
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It is wrong to view that doing actions to collect merit for oneself is selfish. If one does it with a Bodhicitta motivation the merits collected will propels us toward Buddhahood. Isn't it meritorious when one gain Buddhahood allow us to guide and help others skillfully to Enlightenment? Collecting such kind of merits is not for ourselves but is for others. When one sees sufferings, one should endure it and to find many ways to help and release others from sufferings and hardships.
Hence, one should learn and improve on dharma knowledge to gain understanding to transform oneselves for collection of merits go hand in hand. Hence, having attending teachings and only understanding it intellectually without putting into practice is just like one not taking the medicine when one is sick...so how to heal one's mind to help and benefit others? Then this I would consider is selfish not wanting to help and benefit others.
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It's a yes and no. No because you can't make merits if it's for selfish reasons to benefit oneself. Merits are only gained from pure motivation to benefit others. One can have the desire to gain merits so that one can become a Buddha which indirectly benefits oneself as Buddhahood frees us from samsara. However, it can only be possible to reach Buddhahood if one aspire to gain Enlightenment so that one can free others as not just for oneself.
Yes, because to gain Boddhicitta is not something one can achieve overnight. One's motivation are usually not pure. One will want to gain merits for one's own selfish benefits. This is so because to be born human is due to the selfish mind. However, this doesn't mean Boddhicitta cannot be developed. One can focus on developing Boddhicitta through methods given by the Buddha such as dharma practice, meditation, contemplation and studies. Reading, studying dharma, attending dharma talks, making offerings to the 3 jewels, listening to guru's advice are some methods one can generate merits to lessen one's selfishness. Doing purification practices will also reduce one's negativities and turn it into positive.
Over time, the "selfish" intention of making merits can turn into a selfless one.
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The motivation to become a Buddha for the benefit of others will bring tremendous amount of merits for oneself if one truly engages in the path to Enlightenment. The motivation is for others. Hence it is not a selfish act even though the ultimate result (i.e. Buddhahood) will benefit oneself.
For a new practitioner, the bodhichitta motivation is contrived or artificial. Practitioners tend to do it for the sake of one’s selfish gain initially. But as their practice becomes purer and purer, the bodhichitta motivation becomes spontaneous and real. The bodhichitta motivation will develop further until finally the selfish mind is totally eliminated.
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The motivation to become a Buddha for the benefit of others will bring tremendous amount of merits for oneself if one truly engages in the path to Enlightenment. The motivation is for others. Hence it is not a selfish act even though the ultimate result (i.e. Buddhahood) will benefit oneself.
For a new practitioner, the bodhichitta motivation is contrived or artificial. Practitioners tend to do it for the sake of one’s selfish gain initially. But as their practice becomes purer and purer, the bodhichitta motivation becomes spontaneous and real. The bodhichitta motivation will develop further until finally the selfish mind is totally eliminated.
well-said dondrup, I totally agreed.
Even the motivation is to gain merits for oneself but if this motivation is derived from the ultimate motivation to become a Buddha as a mean to save other sentient beings then it is not a selfish act.
We need merits, lots and lots of merits, to be able to purify our negative obstacles to understand Dharma, to gain enlightenment as Buddha. So if we desperately want the merits to be Buddha for the sake of others, we are definitely not selfish ;)
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I would say that it is not a selfish action as we definitely have to practice Bodhicitta in order to benefit more and not just ourself. With the motivation of Bodhicitta and towards Buddhahood that we can help other sentient beings to Enlightenment. How wonderful!
I found a teaching here which gives a short explanation.
http://www.fpmt.org/teachings/lama-thubten-yeshe/875-bodhicitta-the-perfection-of-dharma.html (http://www.fpmt.org/teachings/lama-thubten-yeshe/875-bodhicitta-the-perfection-of-dharma.html)
Also, without bodhicitta it is very difficult to collect merits. You create them and immediately destroy them; by afternoon, the morning's merits have gone. It's like cleaning a room and an hour later making it dirty again. You make your mind clean, then right away you mess it up - not a very profitable business. If you want to succeed in the business of collecting merits, you must have bodhicitta. With bodhicitta you become so precious – like gold, like diamonds; you become the most perfect object in the world, beyond compare with any material things.
From the Western, materialistic point of view, we'd think it was great if a rich person said,'I want to make charity. I'm going to offer $100 to everybody in the entire world.' Even if that person gave with great sincerity, his or her merit would be nothing compared with just the thought,'I wish to actualize bodhicitta for the sake of sentient beings, and I'll practice the six paramitas as much as I can. That's why I always say, actualization of bodhicitta is the most perfect path you can take.
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In my opinion, all of our motivations would be selfish to varying degrees. If our motivation is selfless, then we would already be on the path of the Bodhisattvas already. With regards to the statement, I find the statement to be on the lowest scope of the Lamrim and that is to achieve liberation for oneself first and hence, it is still a valid path of practice.
However, cultivating such thoughts for oneself will make it harder to graduate up the path of the Mahayana where one is trained to think wider and bigger. Hence, we dedicate all virtuous actions for all beings, although it is superficial at this level but it will at least train our minds to think wider and plant the seeds to actually benefit others in the future.
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True merits arise only from the mind of renunciation. If one has already developed this mind, then all actions of body ,sppech and mind of this person will be free from self interest or selfish motivation.
With a mind of renunciation, one wishes to accumulate vast merits to support the attainment of full enlightenment so that one is perfectly poised to benefit others - where can you find any trace of selfishness there ?
This is like a student who works very hard to get good results in order to be awarded scholarship to study medicine so that he is qualified to take care of sick people when he graduates as a full fledged doctor.
Yes, every action depends on the person's motivation. Therefore having a pure motivation is very important if we want to generate merits.
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Merit is often likened to be the spiritual dollar or fertiliser which supports our journey to Buddhahood. Unlike $$$, we are collecting merits not for ourselves but for others. Practicing to become a Buddha is the highest fulfilment of this wish. Those who realize that will passionately engage in the collection of merits for the sake of others. The main cause of Buddhahood is to cultivate the bodhicitta mind . This is a mind powered by compassion . The more suffering there is , the stronger will be the practitioners' motivation to collect vast merits and wisdom so that he/she will be able to help the sufferers to be free from all types of suffering and its causes.
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One of the most common moral principles taken for granted to be true, without questioning its validity and consequences, is the principle that selfishness is evil. No matter how much evidence there is to the contrary, it is always our thoughts and our feelings that are brought into question, but never the principle itself. To question the principle is akin to blasphemy.
But just as it was once blasphemous to state that the earth is round, the virtue of selfishness is a fact we must come to accept at one point or another. In other words, those who are still insisting that selflessness is a virtue might as well believe that the earth is flat.
I would like to clear up the confusion surrounding selfishness, and to highlight the fact that not only does the problem with selfishness have nothing to do with selfishness itself, but that selfishness is a necessary quality for personal growth and the foundation for human happiness.
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Yes, making merit to benefit oneself is a selfish action and I don’t think what you have collected is merit, its might be only good karma.
But from your example mentioned that one wishes to become a Buddha as a result of making the merit; is this actually a pure motivation as one wishes ultimately to gain something for oneself? I will say that usually our merit is dedicate to ultimate goal which is to achieve enlightenment so the merit still continue support us from life after life until we achieve enlightenment and it is nothing wrong. But a long the way of spiritual path in order for us to become enlightenment, we need to achieve wisdom and compassion as well and if you have bodhicitta mind with full with compassion, I believe you will not just dedicate the merit only to yourself as that is not the bodhicitta mind.
And every time when we dedicate our merit to other, we still collect the merit, it doesn’t not transfer to other.
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No way you can make any merit if it is to benefit yourself. That thought that motivation itself already disqualifies one from collecting any merits, perhaps some good karma. However, it is said that it is better for us to think this way rather then nothing at all. Slowly our mind will transform from the good deed and we can think bigger... thinking about Bodhichitta and benefiting others.
We can also make aspirational prayers to start with so that we can set our motivation right. Perhaps inside it is tainted with the 8 worldly concerns, but it is still better then nothing at all. Sure it is definitely excellent if we are selfless and can sincerely start with a Bodhichitta motivation.
Ratnasutra: If you say merit cannot transfer to the other person then what is the point of having dedicational prayers that says may I dedicate merit to all sentient beings or so and so. I am sure not all of the merits goes to that person but a portion of it does go... and well if it does not then why do people do huge pujas in the monasteries for themselves, their family or loved ones? Of course it is possible... more is being discussed here...
"When I dedicate my merit to someone else, how does this work?"
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1856.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1856.0)
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"Is making merit to benefit oneself a selfish action ?
Definitely NO.
True merits are generated only if the deeds are motivated by the mind of renunciation.
Objects that is forsaken by the mind of renunciation is samsara. Samsara does not exist outside ourselves. Samsara is the uncontrolled rebirth caused by actions of negative body, speech and mind arise from selfishness .
If one's wish is to generate merits with a mind of renunciation and the pure motive to ultimately benefits others, this action is noble and certainly not a selfish one."
The negative answer to this question is based on the motivation of gain merits and the platform to gain merits through renunciation.
This internal motivation cannot be deceptive and the motivation must be based on honesty, integrity and bodhichitta. The every journey of making merits for oneself and gaining it is already the practice of compassion and wisdom and bodhichitta.
Therefore I would also conclude that making merits for oneself is not selfish if the motivation is to benefit others on a larger scope of things.