dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Namdrol on April 08, 2012, 07:13:20 PM
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Kundeling Rinpoche.wmv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpDM3WPjlOw#)
His Eminence Kundeling Rinpoche speaks openly, from the heart and logically about the Dorje Shugden ban. How this ban has affected himself, his students, his life, the lives of Tibetans and practitioners around the world. His perfect command of English, indepth knowledge of the political/spiritual issues within the Tibetan communities makes him a authority on the why the ban was put into place at all. His direct and clear cut explanation would help anyone trying to understand this ban which has caused confusion for millions around the world. This is a must see interview in which the listener can learn so much about inner workings of the formerly known Tibetan Government now named Central Tibetan Administration (CTA). Some of the information Kundeling Rinpoche reveals is heartbreaking as well as shocking, but necessary. Kundeling Rinpoche intelligent talk shows exceptional courage in how he faced the bleakest moments of his life for simply following his heart in his spiritual convictions. He didn’t choose his spiritual path for political reasons whatsoever, but it has become political threatening his life at times. But he remains stalwart and firm in his convictions handed to him by his erudite masters.
This must watch interview is moving, informative and at the same time highly necessary to understand why the ban was put into place. You can agree or not agree with Kundeling Rinpoche, but one thing for sure, what he says is compelling and from the depths of his personal experience.
Admin
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This is an excellent talk. Everyone must listen to it thoroughly.
TK
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Indeed TK this is an excellent talk!
Kundeling Rinpoche presented a down-to-earth recollection of the experiences he had gone through in his life since the ban. I think this is by far the most extensive and detailed talk on the ban.
What stuck out for me in this talk is that Rinpoche really spoke from his heart with no additions(I do not know Rinpoche in person but what he says is exactly how every Shugden monk feels and thinks, it's just that they didn't have an outlet). He spoke that in the early days, he did his practice based on the inspiration of HHDL and it was due to this faith that he went on for many years until the ban came about.
I think in general, Shugden monks keeps a very clear and open mind to whatever's happening and stick to their principles. They tend not to sway onto other agendas such as politics. I applaud them for doing so and I think it is due to the blessings of Dorje Shugden that they upkeep the monastic rules to perfection!
May Kundeling Lama live long in order to give freedom and peace to all!
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It is great to see so many high lamas talk openedly about the Dorje Shugden Ban.
Kundeling Rinpoche has made the point very clear that the anti sentiment against Dorje Shugden and Shugdenpas is purely based on jealously and actions of practitioners who are not really real practitioners. Becasue "real" dharma practitioners would never create schism and harm to their own tradition or other traditions.
He stated clearly that each tradition (he preferred to use the term tradition rather than sect) has their unique dharma protectors and as practitioners, one must stay true to their lineage in order to get the blessings. So it is basically a rediculous statement for any other traditions to critizise the Gelupas as sectarian.
The fact that Dorje Shugden is "singled out" by the Dalai Lama as the casue for harming the freedom of Tibet is also illogical. Kundeling Rinpoche said this is the politcal agenda behind Dalai Lama as he plans to unite all four traditions and be the ultimate spiritual leader in the event he could return to Tibet. Dalai Lama understands that the chances for him to be the political leader in Tibet would be impossible as Dalai Lama has opted for autonomy for Tibet in China.
I can sense shock, disappointment, and tremendous saddness in Kundeling Rinpoche as he mentioned that all the works he has been doing is for HH the Dalai Lama. The lies and contradictory statements about Dorje Shugden were made by no other person but the one he has been working for, this has casued him much pain. He could only carry on what he is doing because of his strong conviction to Dorje Shugden and his re-collections of what HH Zong Rinpoche said on the prophecy that there would be such conflict in the future.
Namdrol, thank you for sharing this post, to hear the first hand experience of Kundeling Rinpoche on the ban reaffirm again that we should all continue to work hard to lift the ban!
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Hi Namdrol,
I'm wondering how old this is? Is it really 2012?
Kundeling Rinpoche doesn't say anything about the new Dorje Shugden monasteries or all the stuff that happened in 2008, so I'm guessing that this interview is pre-2008? Or am I wrong?
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I was listening attentively throughout the 1 hour and so of the video. Although I disagree with Kundeling Rinpoche on why the Dalai Lama banned Dorje Shugden's practice but I have tremendous respects for him for openly practicing Dorje Shugden.
Not only does he practice openly, he speaks out for all Dorje Shugden practitioners as well! He was so bold as to file a civil suit against the current Dalai Lama. I do not agree with that but it shows how dedicated and devoted Kundeling Rinpoche is to Dorje Shugden. He would do anything just to protect practice of this Uncommon Protector!
In general, I respect all Lamas who did not give up Dorje Shugden's practice. So much hardship they had to go through. I was almost in tears when Kundeling Rinpoche mentioned many of his friends stopped speaking to him and supporting him.
I can't wait for the ban to be over!!!
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I'm just bumping this in the hope that Namdrol will answer my question.
Is this a recent interview or is it a few years old? What year does it come from?
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I'm just bumping this in the hope that Namdrol will answer my question.
Is this a recent interview or is it a few years old? What year does it come from?
Atually I am not sure when this interview was recorded, it is from http://www.youtube.com/DSnews (http://www.youtube.com/DSnews)
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What stood out the most for me in this video with Kundeling Rinpoche is
"In 1989, HH realised that it is IMPOSSIBLE to demand the Independence of Tibet. HH has to renounce the idea because he has been propogating FREE TIBET since 1959. Eventually he opted for FULL autonomy. HH skillfully put the blame on Shugden in achieving full independence of Tibet. HH used a religious issue and turned it political"
I have heard from some friends in the monastery that when they attended HH talk in 1989 or 1988, HH declared that they will be going home ie Tibet soon. All Tibetans monks and laypeople in exile was very excited. Some monks in the monasteries started to pack their bags and was awaiting for a green light to go home. The abbots in monasteries ie Sera, Drepung & Gaden instructed to stop all further constructions of the monasteries cause they are going home. A year passed and no news of such, that was when HH started to banned Shugden.
Does anyone has any video of HH talk when HH told his audience that they will be going back to Tibet soon?
I have heard news about Kundeling Rinpoche (KR) and how KR really despise HH. I do not blame him for the following reasons :-
1. I have been told that KR has suspected the CTA or rather at that time TGIE for poisoning his Guru which was Dagom Rinpoche.
2. How his properties has been snatched unlawfully by Drepung when KR refused to give up Shugden.
KR has gone through difficult times like any other lamas who refused to give up Shugden practice. I am sure the tenacity of his "suffering" is more as KR as far as I have heard is very VOCAL in his opinion of HH (shown in the video).
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I was browsing through the forum and discovered another post with regards to Kundeling Rinpoche.
A snippet of what I thought was interesting in that interview ;
Tibetan history is complex and confusing. The misuse of Buddhism in the political spheres of Tibetan society, the Lhasa government’s conflict with and over-dependence on Mongolia initially and China eventually, were historically responsible for Tibet’s p olitical complexity and unclear identity.
The 14th Dalai Lama initiated the Tibetan ‘freedom movement’ given the necessity he felt to achieve a position of undisputed infallibility of spiritual and temporal leadership. But he himself with a stroke of his pen went ahead in 1988 in the European Pa rliament in Strasbourg to sign off Tibet’s independence. It is here that he changed his stand - from the demand for Tibetan independence to the demand for Tibetan autonomy. This fact was not publicly known until after the ban on the Dorji Shugden spiritu al practice was announced in early 1996.
In exile the Tibetans could not achieve democracy and unity. What would Tibet look like if the Dalai Lama and his fanatic band of watchdog organisations and followers were in power? It would be a fascist regime, slaughtering opposition and dissidence, mu tilating the limbs and gouging out the eyes of political opponents of the Dalai Lama! The history of Tibet shows that what I have just stated is not an exaggeration. Finally, is there a White Paper on Tibet’s proposed development which the Dalai Lama or his government in exile has brought out? All claims by his exile administration are mere propaganda. This is what I mean when I say that the movement has no substance!
When I heard about the witch-hunt being launched by the Dalai Lama’s government in exile, and the public attacks, slander, and abuse of the leaders and followers of Dorje Shugden (who were initially supporters of the Dalai Lama, including myself), I was horrified. This person whom we believed to be the embodiment of purity, peace and compassion was nothing but an ordinary man bent on consolidating his powers by destroying opponents by all means.
You can read more here :-
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=458.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=458.0)
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Let's pray and send good energy Kundeling Rinpoche stays safe. Because of his open criticisms to the Dalai Lama and CTA, his life would be in danger. How is that possible? It is possible sadly.
Within Tibetan society you are NOT ALLOWED to criticize Dalai Lama in any manner as it will be equal to treason. Democracy is spoken about within CTA but far from it. You have no one within CTA versed in democratic law.
There is no such thing as a lawyer or court of law in the Tibet prior to 1959 and now in exile. That should speak volumes.
TK
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Let's pray and send good energy Kundeling Rinpoche stays safe. Because of his open criticisms to the Dalai Lama and CTA, his life would be in danger. How is that possible? It is possible sadly.
Within Tibetan society you are NOT ALLOWED to criticize Dalai Lama in any manner as it will be equal to treason. Democracy is spoken about within CTA but far from it. You have no one within CTA versed in democratic law.
There is no such thing as a lawyer or court of law in the Tibet prior to 1959 and now in exile. That should speak volumes.
TK
This is a really shocking piece of information about the CTA: no lawyers? no court? What is going to happen if there are people who are accused of a crime that they did not commit? how many people have died of such similar methods? If evidence are fabricated, witnesses bribed, wouldnt it be extremely easy to put to death a hated enemy using the law? Is this how Reting Rinpoche died?
As the rest of the world progresses, CTA declines considerably, and they cant seem to improve even though HHDL keeps pushing them forward but they seem to want to remain in the past with no improvements whatsoever and they do not seem to mind not improving and still sticking to the old ways of thinking and doing things even though times and the situation itself has changed....
As for Kundeling Rinpoche, I really do hope that he stays safe from those fanatical supporters of Dalai Lama who do not apply reason or the teachings to their minds or their actions, to actually have compassion towards people who criticize their teacher (from their perspective, with the teachings applied) and this shows what kind of people they are to bring down their teacher's name.
It always perplexes me that people can do so much negative things in the name of their teacher and how they would rather commit violent acts against people who are against their beliefs or political views than to apply the teachings just for once, or even improve as people as a whole by actually showing grace to people who are against them. They really have to wake up and realize this is not Tibet anymore.
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As I was listening to Kundeling Rinpoche's answers during the interview I could not help but be impressed that here was a leader that really seemed to have understood what was truly going on, and could articulate his views based on logic. I did not get a sense that there was any personal reprisal in his stance against the Dalai Lama but rather the Kundeling Rinpoche was defending his lineage and in the process, seeking for truth to be told. Kundeling came across as being very sure of his stance and therefore virtuous in his decision to stand against the Dalai Lama.
I always held on to my faith that HHDL has a "bigger picture" in mind when HH played the ban card and I continue to believe that HHDL is the emanation of Chenrezig. However, yet again I find it obscene what devotees of Dorje Shugden has had to undergo all these years. I also cannot dismiss the very credible points raised by Kundeling Rinpoche in argument against the validity of HHDL's ban on Dorje Shugden practice.
I cannot help but wonder if the leader of the Tibetans in exile should have all the qualities found in this great and erudite scholar.
Here is the link to very interesting facts about Kundeling Rinpoche:
http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2119 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=2119)
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I may not agree with Kundeling Rinpoche as to what makes Dalai Lama put the DS ban in place (it does not make sense to me that Dalai Lama used DS as a political scapegoat while HHDL himself has been a DS practitioner).
Knowing the implication of the ban, I can understand, don't put blame or judge the DS practitioners that are not speaking up openly - I am one of those who does not speak up. However, I do admire his courage and have a lot of respect for him for speaking up his thought and against the ban. He also deserves a lot of respect for maintaining his samaya with his teachers and his protector. He gave us a lot of insight about what is actually happening inside the Tibetan community as the result of the ban.
I think that DS has been protecting him as he is always able to get by and always have sponsors to execute his activities. I pray to DS that he will keep this brave lama safe.
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Within Tibetan society you are NOT ALLOWED to criticize Dalai Lama in any manner as it will be equal to treason. Democracy is spoken about within CTA but far from it. You have no one within CTA versed in democratic law.
There is no such thing as a lawyer or court of law in the Tibet prior to 1959 and now in exile. That should speak volumes.
This is so true, if it was in the WEST, the officials of CTA would have been prosecuted.
Look at the below link which I was reading a few days ago
[url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=481.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=481.0[/url])
I mean news station like BBC and CNN would have highlighted it big time as it has got to do with human rights.
This is so ridiculous as their own government (CTA) can't even provide the Tibetans with proper travelling documents (passport). And most Tibetans has migrated overseas to the West holding other nationality passport, those who can afford. The government should look into matters like this instead of spending their time and effort in bashing Shugden.
Therefore, this website is important as it shows that the world is watching and CTA needs to be wary of this. They might be demoted to just Central Tibetan Clerical Office (CTCO) with 6 to 10 Tibetan officials who think they are so important in their deluded way.
TK
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Hey man, I hate to say this but what did Kundeling do for the country of Tibet and it's people? What insitutions of education or spiritual learning has he created? What did he accomplish before the Shugden ban? What is he accomplishing now?
How has he helped the monasteries, Tibetan people, dharma and goal of Tibet? His only accomplishment is speaking out against HHDL? What basis does he speak from? He has done nothing for anyone and yet he can speak so loudly. I find that amazing. It's like a homeless person telling Bill Gates how to make money. :P :-[ :-\
I admire his courage, but it should be directed to something bigger and much better.
Anyone has the right to express their opinions to the leadership, but it would be more effective and look better for any movement if the person speaking up has a record of accomplishments. Simply to scorn the leadership without concrete plans and successes would get anyone nowhere. Just sounds like 15 mins in the limelight to air out personal vendettas.
If you google Kundeling, you cannot find anything much on him besides a couple of youtubes. There is no website, no information. I find that strange? What has he done to have the basis to speak so strongly against HHDL who has done so much?
Sorry. :'(
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Hey man, I hate to say this but what did Kundeling do for the country of Tibet and it's people? What insitutions of education or spiritual learning has he created? What did he accomplish before the Shugden ban? What is he accomplishing now?
How has he helped the monasteries, Tibetan people, dharma and goal of Tibet? His only accomplishment is speaking out against HHDL? What basis does he speak from? He has done nothing for anyone and yet he can speak so loudly. I find that amazing. It's like a homeless person telling Bill Gates how to make money. :P :-[ :-\
I admire his courage, but it should be directed to something bigger and much better.
Anyone has the right to express their opinions to the leadership, but it would be more effective and look better for any movement if the person speaking up has a record of accomplishments. Simply to scorn the leadership without concrete plans and successes would get anyone nowhere. Just sounds like 15 mins in the limelight to air out personal vendettas.
If you google Kundeling, you cannot find anything much on him besides a couple of youtubes. There is no website, no information. I find that strange? What has he done to have the basis to speak so strongly against HHDL who has done so much?
Sorry. :'(
I'm sorry but it also does not make sense to destroy something which you are nurturing for almost hald a century! Of course there are many things within the Tibetan community which HHDL has been directly or indirectly involved which made the Tibetans what they are today. Look the TGIE, TIPA, CTA etc etc were due to HHDL's kindness.
But kindness does not allow you to deprive your own people from basic needs and spirituality! Yes I do agree when you put HE Kundeling Rinpoche and HHDL together the difference in terms of their contribution towards their own community is monumentally different. But if both these great masters were to be my teachers, it is according to the Buddha's teachings that I would need to meditate them as being the same in attainments and blessings within my mind. Hence they are all BUDDHAS playing different roles and not one higher than the other.
HE Kundeling Rinpoche has done a great deal for both the Indian and Tibetan community and now the Shugden community! I wouldn't be surprised that the CTA is on his back constantly and tapping him on every phone line and e-mail box available within his vicinity that he has so little access to the world via the internet now that basic information of him is unavailable! We're helping to fill that gap because we are practicing compassion and myself is one passionate and ardent fan of HE Kundeling Rinpoche even though he aint my teacher!
Hope this helps :)
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Hey man, I hate to say this but what did Kundeling do for the country of Tibet and it's people? What insitutions of education or spiritual learning has he created? What did he accomplish before the Shugden ban? What is he accomplishing now?
How has he helped the monasteries, Tibetan people, dharma and goal of Tibet? His only accomplishment is speaking out against HHDL? What basis does he speak from? He has done nothing for anyone and yet he can speak so loudly. I find that amazing. It's like a homeless person telling Bill Gates how to make money. :P :-[ :-\
I admire his courage, but it should be directed to something bigger and much better.
Anyone has the right to express their opinions to the leadership, but it would be more effective and look better for any movement if the person speaking up has a record of accomplishments. Simply to scorn the leadership without concrete plans and successes would get anyone nowhere. Just sounds like 15 mins in the limelight to air out personal vendettas.
If you google Kundeling, you cannot find anything much on him besides a couple of youtubes. There is no website, no information. I find that strange? What has he done to have the basis to speak so strongly against HHDL who has done so much?
Sorry. :'(
I think Kundeling Rinpoche is so very brave to be doing this and saying what He is saying to the world so that everyone can watch, think and make their own skillful decision. All Kundeling RInpoche is pointing out is logical facts and anyone can see this.
Kundeling and anyone else has the right and freedom to say what they wish to say because it affects them and many others who are experiencing "unfairness" and "unethical" persecutions just because they have a different belief and practice. It is so true how it is Dorje Shugden is the only protector being singled out and made in to a scape goat with the failure or getting Tibet free. All other traditions has their own unique protector that protects their tradition, so why is Dorje SHugden viewed so negatively as sectarian???
Well if anything happens to HE Kundeling RInpoche, we have our no1 suspects... the CTA. It is amazing how a Buddhist society, which is what the world knows of, Tibetans, could actually write, threatened, and perhaps even execute murder towards sangha, monks, and on top of that Lamas. This clearly shows it is not about Buddhism, because they do not have Dharma, it clearly shows Tibetan society has no "compassion" nor "wisdom" and is in fact a huge political power struggle agenda is bigger then human rights.
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I find the justifications presented aimless and without merit to continue to rationalize the activities of this dalia, lama are as insane and pointless as his words are to justify his continued existence as any kind of leader whatsoever. Whilst the Tibetans may continue to cling to his image as meaningful. I find this idea of a Big Picture completely ludicrous and demeaning to any rational thinking person. Buddhism is based upon logic and common sense. Not a juxtaposition for inmates in a lunatic asylum. However, I do think it possible, he is perfect mirror for the corruption of our times and his relationship to one of the most corrupt governments in the world and the admiration he has garnered as a tool for the CIA is actually perfect in it's presentation. I find the Big Picture will be the final and complete comprehension that this dalia lama will be recognized as one of history's better ruses, as the truth is his historical predecessor had the Wisdom Buddha Drakpa Gylatshen murdered in order to seize complete control the Tibetans and maintained the population as a pool for slave labor and treated no better than chattel.This Big Picture idea is ludicrous. My Big Picture is one that has absolute pity for this pawn of the Eight Ruling Families for the last 400 years.
I do feel sorry for this man and wish him all the best in his next lifetime. He as we all do , deserves our pity and hope he recovers from the Three Poisons and emanates loving kindness for all concerned instead of the vile and venom he spews with his lies about Dorje Shugden and his true Devotees.
The Buddha never supported Deception as a method to assist the Sentient Beings on the path to enlightenment~~May Tenzin Gyatso Norbu live a long life to reach clarity for his actions and words
I have withdrawn my energy from this schism, as I believe the more input we give this ruse is as ludicrous as two moons circling the earth.
The only solution is Loving Kindness~~ All the rest is delusion and insanity~~May Love Prevail and the Suffering Cease All Around the World of Sentient Beings!~!
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Hey man, I hate to say this but what did Kundeling do for the country of Tibet and it's people? What insitutions of education or spiritual learning has he created? What did he accomplish before the Shugden ban? What is he accomplishing now?
How has he helped the monasteries, Tibetan people, dharma and goal of Tibet? His only accomplishment is speaking out against HHDL? What basis does he speak from? He has done nothing for anyone and yet he can speak so loudly. I find that amazing. It's like a homeless person telling Bill Gates how to make money. :P :-[ :-\
I admire his courage, but it should be directed to something bigger and much better.
Anyone has the right to express their opinions to the leadership, but it would be more effective and look better for any movement if the person speaking up has a record of accomplishments. Simply to scorn the leadership without concrete plans and successes would get anyone nowhere. Just sounds like 15 mins in the limelight to air out personal vendettas.
If you google Kundeling, you cannot find anything much on him besides a couple of youtubes. There is no website, no information. I find that strange? What has he done to have the basis to speak so strongly against HHDL who has done so much?
Sorry. :'(
First of all, I fold my hands at Kundeling Rinpoche for his courage to act and speak out for his beliefs and for doing all he can to alleviate the sufferings of Shugden practitioners in his way. I will leave the arguments and praises to others in this forum.
What I want to ask Tenzin Gyatso is that, do you know what is critical thinking? Judge what is said and not who said it. Examine the facts of what is said and not the "credibility" of who said it. Even if HHDL who has done a lot said something , it doesn't mean he is correct all the time. Even if we believe he is a Buddha and therefore is correct all the time, does he actually meant it the way you think? Who are you to say so? Others can interpret it the way they think. It is all about perception. It is our karma to have the 5 aggregates which is flawed.
So at least listen and logically examine. You can agree or disagree. Putting someone down and asking "how much has he done for so and so" shows your immaturity. This is the cause all the problems we are having in this world today.
I am sorry. Hope you understand.
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Hey man, I hate to say this but what did Kundeling do for the country of Tibet and it's people? What insitutions of education or spiritual learning has he created? What did he accomplish before the Shugden ban? What is he accomplishing now?
How has he helped the monasteries, Tibetan people, dharma and goal of Tibet? His only accomplishment is speaking out against HHDL? What basis does he speak from? He has done nothing for anyone and yet he can speak so loudly. I find that amazing. It's like a homeless person telling Bill Gates how to make money. :P :-[ :-\
I admire his courage, but it should be directed to something bigger and much better.
Anyone has the right to express their opinions to the leadership, but it would be more effective and look better for any movement if the person speaking up has a record of accomplishments. Simply to scorn the leadership without concrete plans and successes would get anyone nowhere. Just sounds like 15 mins in the limelight to air out personal vendettas.
If you google Kundeling, you cannot find anything much on him besides a couple of youtubes. There is no website, no information. I find that strange? What has he done to have the basis to speak so strongly against HHDL who has done so much?
Sorry. :'(
lol somehow i think you're talking about yourself as this is what i read:
Hey man, I hate to say this but what did you do for the country of Tibet and it's people? What insitutions of education or spiritual learning have you created? What did you accomplish in your life? What are you accomplishing now?
How has you helped the monasteries, Tibetan people, dharma and goal of Tibet? Your only accomplishment is speaking out against Dorje Shugden? What basis do you speak from? You has done nothing for anyone and yet you can speak so loudly. I find that amazing. It's like a homeless person telling Bill Gates how to make money. :P :-[ :-\
I admire your courage, but it should be directed to something bigger and much better.
Anyone has the right to express their opinions to the leadership, but it would be more effective and look better for any movement if the person speaking up has a record of accomplishments. Simply to scorn the leadership without concrete plans and successes would get anyone nowhere. Just sounds like 15 mins in the limelight to air out personal vendettas.
What have you done to have the basis to speak so strongly against Dorje Shugden who has done so much?
Sorry. :'(
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My Gosh... Kundeling Rinpoche really is a courageous and FEARLESS Lama! I stumbled upon an old interview and glanced through a few Qs & As and I am just so amazed by his statements and humbled by his motivation and thoughts... here's just a snip bit:
Volume 17 - Issue 26, Dec. 23, 2000 - Jan. 05, 2001
India's National Magazine
from the publishers of THE HINDU
What do you see as your role in relation to the Tibetan 'cause'?
I want to clarify my role by stating that I am an Indian and not a Tibetan national. This issue of confrontation with the Dalai Lama with regard to his persecution of me and others is important, but is not my primary agenda. My life's agenda has been to revive the Buddhist heritage in India as an academic or cultural heritage, if not as a religious practice, and to inspire Buddhist monks and Mahayana Vajrayana practitioners to come out of the conservatism of their outlook and contribute towards the soci al projects within the Indian mainstream. Since Buddhism is merely a living relic of past history in India and the holy places related to Buddhist development are now but mere open museums, my intention has been to revive the essential message of altruis m and compassion for all beings by putting it in a language of practical interaction that can be related to the masses in India.
Under what conditions do you think can Tibetans living in exile return to the Tibet Autonomous Region of China?
I think it is most important for the Dalai Lama to engage in a serious and positive dialogue with the Chinese rather than beating around the bush. His insincerity, his strategy of buying time, and not discussing or addressing the two issues that are rele vant to the society of Tibet is evident. If there ought to be a Tibetan nation, as the Dalai Lama desires, then there is the issue of its economic development along with the development of education, science and technology. The second issue is that of th e democratic rights of the society, which can only develop if there is literacy and intellectuals and thinkers are encouraged and developed into true policy-makers. The first set of development markers have been achieved to a great extent by China. This is not only my personal opinion but also that of others and the Dalai Lama himself who in his recent speeches on the question of autonomy for Tibet has been praising the current development of Tibet. He should be joining hands with the Chinese to bring f urther development within Tibet and seriously working towards a solution himself. He should ask his followers to cease all their anti-China activities within Indian soil and that of other countries.
http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1726/17260840.htm (http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1726/17260840.htm)
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I liked the way Kundeling Rinpoche answered with conviction and deftness of someone who is so focused with his arguments and reasons. I may not be in agreement with what he says especially with regard to HHDL but I can see the reason behind his debate.
From the interview he surmises that one of the reasons behind the ban is because he claims HHDL feels unity is going to be achieved in bringing about a ban in Dorje Shugden. Apparently Dorje Shugden creates sectarianism!
Which Kundeling vehemently claims that is incorrect.
The reason is because Dorje Shudgen is in no way an obstacle to unity of all the traditions to begin with. There are a lot of lies being said about this he adds. He also mentioned that the different traditions have their own unique protectors. They are uncommon protectors. Why is Dorje Shugden being singled out as the enemy to unity or the as main object of sectarianism?
Kundeling Rinpoche claims the main reason is because Dorje Shudgen has been very popular. Gelugpa’s are a majority in Tibet and also in exile. The popularity may have caused constrain and jealousy in certain practitioners. In the history of Tibet there has always been a tussle and quarrel or disagreement on the basis of fame, popularity, patrons, property and or disciples. These are typical peculiar human failings and human problems. It has nothing to do with sectarianism within the protectors of the Gelugpas or protectors of the other traditions.
Hence in removing Dorje Shugden, could pave the way for HHDL to “unite” the traditions because the problem would be eradicated. However that can never be as we cannot lose the uniqueness of each tradition because it would break the purity of the lineage and that is unthinkable.
So logically this reason, which Kundeling Rinpoche claims is one of the reasons HHDL has in instilling the ban, is utterly baseless. So why does HHDL make it seem to be so?
Another thing that struck out for me was when he said that as a Buddhist we have taken refuge in the 3 jewels sincerely and one of the 8 benefits is that we cannot be harmed by evil spirits or demons. Hence by logic, if HHDL says an evil spirit (seemingly in this case Dorje Shugden) can harm him, then one can conclude that HHDL has not taken refuge and hence why is HHDL a Buddhist teacher to begin with. Certainly does not make sense and that is one of the major contradictory statements HHDL has highlighted over the years of the ban.
The fact that HHDL seemingly would like us to think he is using the ban to unite the different traditions and that Dorje Shugden can harm him all clearly points to me that HHDL wants us to think deeper and to find out for ourselves the true reason behind the ban and act accordingly with a Dharmic motivation.
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One thing I do admire about Kundeling Rinpoche is his DEVOTION to his lineage gurus. If you check the facts and you see his previous history about Kundeling, his "biggest downfall" (in the mind of a layperson like me) was his devotion which brought him down. But if you look at it carefully, he devotion did not waver and in fact he was very outspoken about it.
I always wonder about Kundeling Rinpoche. I have asked around a couple of times but the monks has informed me that nobody knows his whereabouts as his life is always in danger because he was outspoken and went against HH.
However, I have gather a few information from a few sources. These information was very inspiring for me to work hard so that one day, we create the causes to lift the BAN on Shugden.
1. Kundeling Rinpoche was from Drepung Monastery.
2. He was extremely devoted to all his lineage guru and exceptionally Trijang Rinpoche. Previously, when he was in Drepung, whenever someone ask him about Trijang Rinpoche, he will cry.
3. He was expelled by the monastery because he went against HH on the Shugden issue
4. After that, HH enthroned another Kundeling Rinpoche and built a huge Labrang for this Rinpoche.
5. Even his assets in his previous life were all taken away. He used to have a huge foundation in US which was also taken away.
6. In his previous life he was very wealthy. He was the Regent of Tibet. All abbots of the 3 great Gelugpa pillars ie Gaden, Drepung and Sera had to show respect to him including Zong Rinpoche at that time.
Kundeling Rinpoche fought hard against HH and the rest of the Tibetans, he wanted justice for Shugden. He never did give up even in such harsh condition, he endured the pain and sufferings.
We do need a lot of these type of Shugden warriors. One day when the BAN is lifted, Kundeling will be part of that cause.
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"First of all, I fold my hands at Kundeling Rinpoche for his courage to act and speak out for his beliefs and for doing all he can to alleviate the sufferings of Shugden practitioners in his way. I will leave the arguments and praises to others in this forum.
What I want to ask Tenzin Gyatso is that, do you know what is critical thinking? Judge what is said and not who said it. Examine the facts of what is said and not the "credibility" of who said it. Even if HHDL who has done a lot said something , it doesn't mean he is correct all the time. Even if we believe he is a Buddha and therefore is correct all the time, does he actually meant it the way you think? Who are you to say so? Others can interpret it the way they think. It is all about perception. It is our karma to have the 5 aggregates which is flawed.
So at least listen and logically examine. You can agree or disagree. Putting someone down and asking "how much has he done for so and so" shows your immaturity. This is the cause all the problems we are having in this world today." quote by Yongten Jamyang.
I cannot agree more with Yongten , this is precisely the type of immature critical thinking that most of HHDL supporters has that leads them to act fanatically towards courageous devotees of Dorje Shugden such as HE Kundeling RInpoche !
I am one of those Western DOrje SHugden practitioners who was initially wondering what all the big fuss was about ! Would there really be religious persecution within BUddhism itself ? I could not believe that fellow buddhist would actually act so fanatically , event to the extent of murdering fellow Buddhist .
Upon watching Kundeling Rinpoche's video I found the "unbelievable" risks that he faces to be real . One can actually see the disappointment and the pain he has to endure due to the ban. He seems to have long accepted his fate and is not regretting it in the slightest bit, for this fact alone he has my utmost respect ! He may not be my guru but he has shown me in his short talk that I have much to learn from this RInpoche , my sincere prayers goes out to him , may he be protected always by our DHarmapala DOrje SHugden .
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watch 9:30 it is so funny... all it takes is pure logic which we have been trained to use in our tradition and practice...
think: if HHDL can be harmed by Dorje Shugden, hence it seems He does not have refuge, then how is it that He can be a Buddhist teacher?? Obviously HHDL is still very much alive and healthy, no?
Kundeling Rinpoche is not only brave His Guru Devotion speaks volumes of who He really is. When Kundeling Rinpoche heard about the Ban, he was shattered and had to make the most difficult decision of his life because he cherishes his Root Guru, the rest as we can see. When Kundleing did not give up his practice... his house was attacked - the Tibetans threw stone on his house...and He was then forced to leave his Ladrang.
Now the CTA actually went to recognise another Kundeling Rinpoche which has caused dispute...
The recognition of the 13th Kundeling Tatsak Rinpoche is presently in dispute.
Lobsang Yeshi Jampal Gyatso (born 1959 in Kolkata), who is not officially recognized by the Dalai Lama.
Tenzin Chokyi Gyaltsen (born 1983 in Lhasa), officially recognized by the Dalai Lama in 1993. Presently he studies at Drepung Gomang Monastery in Mundgod, India.
And because of this interjection of yet 2nd Kundeling Rinpoche, heard that because of this his huge foundation in the US was all transferred to this newly recognised Kundeling, Lobsang Yeshi Jampal Gyatso.
Where in the world does this Tibetan Govt have the nerve to change lineage Lamas?
Bio on Kundeling Rinpoche can be found here...http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=2119 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=2119)
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My Gosh... Kundeling Rinpoche really is a courageous and FEARLESS Lama! I stumbled upon an old interview and glanced through a few Qs & As and I am just so amazed by his statements and humbled by his motivation and thoughts... here's just a snip bit:
Volume 17 - Issue 26, Dec. 23, 2000 - Jan. 05, 2001
India's National Magazine
from the publishers of THE HINDU
What do you see as your role in relation to the Tibetan 'cause'?
I want to clarify my role by stating that I am an Indian and not a Tibetan national. This issue of confrontation with the Dalai Lama with regard to his persecution of me and others is important, but is not my primary agenda. My life's agenda has been to revive the Buddhist heritage in India as an academic or cultural heritage, if not as a religious practice, and to inspire Buddhist monks and Mahayana Vajrayana practitioners to come out of the conservatism of their outlook and contribute towards the soci al projects within the Indian mainstream. Since Buddhism is merely a living relic of past history in India and the holy places related to Buddhist development are now but mere open museums, my intention has been to revive the essential message of altruis m and compassion for all beings by putting it in a language of practical interaction that can be related to the masses in India.
Under what conditions do you think can Tibetans living in exile return to the Tibet Autonomous Region of China?
I think it is most important for the Dalai Lama to engage in a serious and positive dialogue with the Chinese rather than beating around the bush. His insincerity, his strategy of buying time, and not discussing or addressing the two issues that are rele vant to the society of Tibet is evident. If there ought to be a Tibetan nation, as the Dalai Lama desires, then there is the issue of its economic development along with the development of education, science and technology. The second issue is that of th e democratic rights of the society, which can only develop if there is literacy and intellectuals and thinkers are encouraged and developed into true policy-makers. The first set of development markers have been achieved to a great extent by China. This is not only my personal opinion but also that of others and the Dalai Lama himself who in his recent speeches on the question of autonomy for Tibet has been praising the current development of Tibet. He should be joining hands with the Chinese to bring f urther development within Tibet and seriously working towards a solution himself. He should ask his followers to cease all their anti-China activities within Indian soil and that of other countries.
[url]http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1726/17260840.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.frontlineonnet.com/fl1726/17260840.htm[/url])
When I read this piece of information, it gladdens me because HE Kundeling Rinpoche states it clear that he is a monk with the only motivation to benefit regardless his nationality etc. As a Tulku of the Gaden lineage, we can see that Rinpoche's focus on benefiting both the teachings and sentient beings is clear. Whether it is 12 yrs ago or just last April, his speech is eminent in delivering the needed points to put attention on this particular issue. It is true that Rinpoche might not be famous in much sense and his work is not highlighted much by the local or international media. What I wanna point out again is the fluency, confidence and most of all, Rinpoche's courage in speaking openly in a as-a-matter-of fact way to the media about the Shugden issue.
This will definitely raise a red button in the CTA and lift a few more eye brows for people to think deeper into their thoughts.
Here we have an Indian national ousted by Tibetans who are supposedly guests to his native land and ostracised many times by members of his own order for demonic worship. Yet he is so patient and only speak kind words to bring this attention to many so that people understand really what is happening in today's ignorrant world.
Yes, I do pray that Rinpoche continues to support the cause to lift this ban and may Rinpoche have a long life and great health. May he be protected by mighty Dorje Shugden and the Great Eight forces from all kinds of harm to continue his good work of bringing benefit to others.
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I personally really admire Kundeling Rinpoche for his courage to stand out and 'challenge' the Dalai Lama. his bravery and fearlessness is something that is something commendable. You dont see much lamas like that around these days! He has some really fiery points of their own. Kundeling Rinpoche, Geshe Keslang Gyatso and Serkong Tritul are presenting many questions to the Dalai Lama over the Dorje Shugden practice but he has chosen to keep quiet, oddly....
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The ban has really caused serious issues of debate between masters, students and teachers. It is shocking to know in the world's most supposedly "peaceful" religion has so much politics and internal conflict. To most people from the outside world it is quite hilarious and a huge shame for "Tibetan Buddhism" in general. What people knew about Buddhism is basically peace but due to the ban we see the opposite. Kundeling Rinpoche's debate and stance against the Ban has brought many attentions around the globe and when no one dares to questions His Holiness... he does and some more brings HHDL to court! Sure shock me alright... but if we hear his arguements and points... it is very logical and it is something to think about cos we certainly would not let anyone/any of our country's leader to get away with such discrimination.
However I do believe that these high Lama manifest in such away to teach us and to bring about a phenomenal change. How can Chenrezig be wrong and how can Heruka be wrong, how can Trijang Rinpiche and Pabongkha Rinpoche be wrong? So to change something drastic as the Tibetan politics and views and their people's expectation... it must require something huge such as this Ban... though to many it may be seen very hypocritical... I see it as a cause for some huge transformation in perhaps spreading the Dharma to those who would probably never embrace it... like China. So in some ways the debate and stance of Kundeling Rinpoche efforts is to create to bring even more awareness of Dorje Shugden practice. HHDL started this publicity.... and the high Lamas continues it in various different methods.
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The ban has really caused serious issues of debate between masters, students and teachers. It is shocking to know in the world's most supposedly "peaceful" religion has so much politics and internal conflict. To most people from the outside world it is quite hilarious and a huge shame for "Tibetan Buddhism" in general. What people knew about Buddhism is basically peace but due to the ban we see the opposite. Kundeling Rinpoche's debate and stance against the Ban has brought many attentions around the globe and when no one dares to questions His Holiness... he does and some more brings HHDL to court! Sure shock me alright... but if we hear his arguements and points... it is very logical and it is something to think about cos we certainly would not let anyone/any of our country's leader to get away with such discrimination.
However I do believe that these high Lama manifest in such away to teach us and to bring about a phenomenal change. How can Chenrezig be wrong and how can Heruka be wrong, how can Trijang Rinpiche and Pabongkha Rinpoche be wrong? So to change something drastic as the Tibetan politics and views and their people's expectation... it must require something huge such as this Ban... though to many it may be seen very hypocritical... I see it as a cause for some huge transformation in perhaps spreading the Dharma to those who would probably never embrace it... like China. So in some ways the debate and stance of Kundeling Rinpoche efforts is to create to bring even more awareness of Dorje Shugden practice. HHDL started this publicity.... and the high Lamas continues it in various different methods.
I really like what Kundeling Rinpoche has did because it shows that he is a fearless lama, especially fearless when it comes to defending the lineage. No matter how anyone wants to put it or say, Dorje Shugden is an integral part of Gelugpa. If Dorje Shugden is not allowed in a Gelugpa center, then that center is not a Gelug center anymore. At this stage and this point of time, we need more Lamas like Kundeling Rinpoche who is presenting debate points to Dalai Lama on the ban and to show the world and everyone how illogical it is, and to actually make people wake up.
The Dalai Lama/CTA's silence on them has been quite interesting because it means that they do not have the answer to the questions, and therefore, the ban is illogical from the start