dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Namdrol on February 17, 2012, 01:35:04 AM
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Out of curiosity I did a search on CTA's website www.tibet.net (http://www.tibet.net) for "shugden", and a list came out, but when I tried to click on the links with Shugden as the main topic, for example "His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)", it only says "page not found", same for a few other links with Shugden as the main topic (see pic attached).
Other articles which had been removed from CTA website include:
"The Central Tibetan Administration’s position on the Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet"
"Statement by the CTA on Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet"
"Limitations on Shugden Should Sustain: His Holiness"
If the topic came out in search, but when you click on it it says "page not found", it should mean that the article was originally there but was removed right?
Can someone else please verify this also? If this is true, good for you Kalon Tripa Dr. Lobsang Sangay! You have done the right thing for your government and people!
This means that CTA is now has been quietly separating state and church (religion). State is secular, government, people; church is religious issues, what you can and cannot practice...
There are still Shugden mentioned here and there in some articles, but those with Shugden as the main topic, had been removed. Those articles with Shugden mentioned are articles in which the majority of the content is not Shugden related, but Shugden is just being mentioned as a one-liner for example by Dalai Lama, Samdhong Rinpoche etc.
On those articles with Shugden as the main topic, it is also purely secular, like "Delhi High Court Dismisses Dorjee Shugden Devotees’ Charges".
The trend is clear now, those news with Shugden QUOTED by other personnel like Dalai Lama is still there, those are QUOTED and it does not represent CTA's stand on Shugden issue; those news which mentioned Shugden devotees pressing charges against Dalai Lama, those news about other people making allegations against Dalai Lama regarding Suhgden is still there; BUT, those articles that represent the STAND of CTA regarding Shugden, IS GONE.
Also, few years ago until sometime last year, there used to be an anti-shugden website with every materials against Shugden called www.antishugden.com (http://www.antishugden.com), and the registrar record clearly showed that the website was made by Gangchen Kyishong (CTA) (see pic attached), the CTA blatantly didn't bother to hide their identity in creating the anti-shugden website back then, but the website has since been shutdown and Gangchen Kyishong has abandoned the website altogether (see pic), this is another clear sign that the CTA has been changing their stand against Shugden!
Also, the CTA some years ago had made an anti-shugden documentary video called "Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy" with clips accusing and embarrassing Shugden high lamas like Gangchen Rinpoche, and the latest check shows that it has also been removed from CTA's official TV Station online (http://www.tibetonline.tv (http://www.tibetonline.tv)), it used to be there for the longest time. But now there are only three Shugden related videos on the TV station, two are Dalai Lama's speech about Shugden, and another one made by Swiss TV. Again we can see that THE CTA HAS ABANDONED ALL MATERIALS ABOUT THEIR STAND AGAINST SHUGDEN. You still can see the original video "Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy" on Youtube here: Dorjee Shugden, The Spirit and the Controversy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9ni15ueFZk#)
IN OTHER WORDS, THE CTA HAS ABANDONED THEIR PREVIOUS STAND AGAINST SHUGDEN, WHICH IS TO PERSECUTE, TO BAN, TO OSTRACIZE, TO SIDELINE, TO OUTCAST SHUGDEN PRACTITIONERS!!!
Can we say that the ban against Shugden is half-lifted now?!?!
p/s "His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)" still exists on Dalai Lama's website (http://dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/his-holiness-advice (http://dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/his-holiness-advice)) but it means now it is only a spiritual issue, and a Dalai Lama's "personal issue", a good development for Shugden practitioners!
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Hi Namdrol,
Thank you for the heads up in this. I checked and you are right, those topics stated showed "page not found".
This is really good news to rejoice. And I believe this is the collective works of all the DS practitioners around the world who have made this happen. We should all keep it up!!!!
Thank you Dr Lobsang Sangay, the kalon Tripa of CTA. This is the way to go, all Tibetans should be united and freedom of religious issues should be encompassing to include DS practitioners as well.
This is such great news and I am so happy that my day is filled with bright sunshine now!!!
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This is very interesting news indeed. I suspect perhaps the Kalon Tripa is moving to reconcile the differences between Tibetans that have been plaguing the entire Tibetan exile diaspora for so long. So if you were a new leader for a country in exile, without a home what would you do?
I would certainly find a way to rally and unite the people and what has been consistently a thorn in the image of Tibetans in exile, it is that they are divided over the Dorje Shugden issue! Dear Lobsang Sangye I applaud and congratulate your courage in doing the right thing. If Bon who are not buddhists can be accepted as part of the Tibetan nation I see why not Dorje Shugden practitioners to be part of the Tibetan Community. Happy news, thank you Namdrol for you ever alertness and vigilance. You made my day!
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Yes, it is interesting to read Namdrol's post but more interesting to search on CTA's website. I typed in Dorje Shugden and the message after the search showed "Unable to connect". I tried 30 minutes later and the same message appeared. If it is true that as what Namdrol suggested that the pages have all been removed, then I take back my word to Dr. Lobsang Sangay that he is not a puppet after all. I hope he will do more than that, working towards lifting the ban and allowing Dorje Shugden practitioners of Tibetan origin to freely continue with their practice openly, and reinstating their basic human rights and ending their suffering. I hope also that this may be soon before some of the older Tibetan people pass away so they may have joy and peace when their time comes.
Om Mani Padme Hung, Om Mani Padme Hung, Om Mani Padme Hung.
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a wild thought just came to mind from no where but did we all at dorjeshugden.com just shut CTA down???!!! In the online sense of course. Because we have been refuting, explaining and writing our thoughts and wishes in order to lift the ban from our heads it has now come to our knowledge that CTA's link to Dorje Shugden issues are wiped off from their website.
I can't find any substantial explanations for this really but to think that our postings made something happen.
Lift the ban! Lift the Ban!
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Wow! Thank you! This is incredibly great news indeed. Shugden topics being removed from CTA website! A wish come true! If indeed this is true,I must take back my criticism of the new Kalon Tripa as being inert and ineffective in redressing the anguishing issue of Shugden. Yes, it takes excessive courage to steer a new direction re this issue. I applaud this brave and bold move.
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Great New! I strongly believe the ban will be lifted from the secular side first and follow later by the spiritual side. The CTA is also losing the PR war regarding the ban and the treatment of the TIbetan in exile. If we keep up the pressure up there is no way they can withstand the pressure as they risk being regarded as the new apartheid regime of the world.
This is a good sign. Lets hope they truly mean to permanently remove these links/content. The CTA should be a government for ALL Tibetans.
Lets keep the pressure.
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There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!
CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.
They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.
CTA, WAKE UP!!!
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There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!
CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.
They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.
CTA, WAKE UP!!!
I totally agree with you. It's great news and I rejoice!!! This is a clear indication that the truth will always prevail. CTA withdrawing the articles is the first step. I believe if we all continue to spread the info around the world in more creative and harmonious methods regarding dorje shugden, more and more people will back down.
The key is educate the world with facts. Anyone of you who has the funds should make a movie and or documentary in National Geographic or Discovery Channel. Ride on the worldwide publicity that dorje shugden is having and disseminate the truth so that people's mind turn around and realise the benefits of the practice.
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There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!
CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.
They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.
CTA, WAKE UP!!!
I wanted to gently say the website IS NOT DOWN, but the articles removed. There's a difference. If it is removed, this means the CTA realizes it is bad for their PR to ban a sector of their own people due to religious beliefs.
This is an excellent post by Namdrol. I thank Namdrol for his vigilance. It has really made my week. I feel extremely happy to see this 'trend' I dare hope.
CTA is the secular 'leaders' of the Tibetans in exile at least. And if they still require the millions ($) in donations they are recieving to survive and operate their activities, they need to have good PR. Good PR means no ban, no suppression of their own people, no bias and religious injustices. Otherwise they sound like medieval England, Spain or witch hunts 200 years ago in the Americas.
The chronic problem with majority of CTA people is that they are highly backwards, uneducated, unexposed, very sedentary, always looking for handouts, have never travelled the world, have zero background in democratic modern governance. Their only source of information is BBC and Dalai Lama. With Phd Harvard graduate Lobsang Sangye coming in, there might be a difference. But we must do our part. We must write in, do E-protests (forum writings, Facebook, social medias) to continuously create an embarrassing situation for CTA. We are embarrassing them with their own silly and outdated ban, policies against a sector of people who's only crime is practicing Shugden. How can Dalai Lama say "choose him or Shugden?" It's not as simple as that, to choose Shugden means you can't vote, get medical assistance from Tibetan doctors, attend Tibetan schools, take part in decisions of the exile Tibetans, expelled from Monasteries. It's not freedom of choice but blackmail and pure dictatorial imposition.
We must continue to create more awareness and keep up the pressure. All Shugden practitioners must continue to group together and not stay apart or argue on idealogical/philosophical differences. That can be continued (if necessary) when the ban is released or forgotten. The ban is just like apartheid. We must group together to remove this unfair, undemocratic and outdated apartheid. Religious freedom should be enjoyed by all citizens of Tibet and the world.
Down with Tibetan apartheid.
TK
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INCREDIBLE NEWS!!! I AM SURE ALL OUR VOICES PUT TOGETHER WAS SOMEHOW SPIED & HEARD ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
I GUESS DR. LOBSANG SANGYE did not graduate from HAVARD for nothing lol. This is by far a wise move by the CTA. I am sure they do not wish to be seen by the world how inhuman and unethical they are towards their own Tibetans in exile. I hope they are thinking BIGGER.
The last thing they need is a dysfunctional, disharmony, dissemination of their very own people. And how many are there in India? Not much so if they are split within their own exile community... how many people they lose out which they could use to add voice towards their goals of "Freedom".
Look even China is acknowledging spirituality by meeting the Panchen Lama... so if they don't cut out the silly ban parade... they will create a world spotlight on them cos they would be the only country in this century to have such a law/rule for their own people. If Tibetan Shugden practitioners cannot even talk to their own PM, then I guess less votes for him.
Yes there are many great high lamas, masters & scholars who are doing wonders around the word for Tibetan Buddhism and who are Shugden practitioners, they are well connected & influential like H.E. Gangchen Rinpoche who is part of the UN... instead of being their enemy, witch hunting them... CTA shld be their best friend. They can help more then CTA can at the moment.
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This is good news and may indicate that the CTA wishes to dissociate itself from the Dorje Shugden issue. Removing articles connected to Dorje Shugden is the first step in the right direction. Now I hope they will address the problems directly and remove the ban. Not only this! They must help the affected people who have suffered so much from the discrimination by giving them back their dignity. May all Dorje Shugden practitioners receive the protection of the CTA and be given the rights and respect they deserve!
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Thank you Namdrol. This is truly splendid news. And what's most splendid about it is that the articles were removed! How exciting to contemplate that the CTA is quietly becoming secular as it should be. If this direction is the brainchild of the Kalon Tripa, Dr Lobsang Sangye, then i take my hat off to him for having the guts to stand up for human rights and non-discrimination because the ban, as TK has said, is really an insidious form of apartheid.
This news, combined with the demise of antishugden.com certainly bodes well for Dorje Shugden practitioners. I wonder what is the sentiment of the Tibetan community though - are they even aware that the CTA is softening its stance, at least on the official level. It is vital then that we write to Tibetan news/media to highlight this issue and praise the CTA for its progressiveness. When appropriate credit is given, especially in the international arena, perhaps this will be an incentive for the CTA to be more vocal about its stance to Dorje Shugden.
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It appears as if the pages have been deleted from their backend -- that their own administrators removed the pages although there were remnants of it everywhere, but this is good news indeed!!
This is a sign of progress for the Tibetans and I am very happy for them as they have did something that the Dalai Lama has wanted them to do: the prime minister performing the duties of a prime minister that is to focus purely on secular affairs and not prosecute others based on religion. The Dalai Lama's little baby government is finally standing up to perform and not dump everything on his shoulders!! That is not a proper way to treat a Lama even though he has vowed to guide Tibet...not taking responsibility but putting all the burden on his shoulders. But with this clean line, the CTA has truly grown on to be a government.
The next step that should be taken is that the CTA provide support for the ostracized Shugden practitioners now to assist them back into society. Just because they practice Dorje Shugden dosent mean they're any less of a human and does not deserve equal rights. There has been a caste system in Tibet before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_classes_of_Tibet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_classes_of_Tibet) and I am sure CTA dosent want to go that direction again because if they do, the world will turn their back on them. The removal of the webpages is a good sign that they are fighting against that.
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These are great news! If this continue on with what Dr Lobsang Sangay and CTA are doing then we can REJOICE at the separation of religious and political issues. This also means that people are no longer being ostracised for what they believe in and practice for the purposes of CTA are different now . Wouldn't it be wonderful? People of Tibet can live in peace and harmony as now CTA will concentrate on helping them and not abandoning them like previously. It is true that this website is being noticed for it's peaceful approaches to the ban and whatever mentioned are sensible and logical. I am pretty sure the CTA people come to this website and look at the comments here (hehe) as well. May the ban be lifted due to the joyous effort around the world. May the ostracized unhappiness becomes hapiness. May the admin and this forum continue to benefit all DS practioners! Thank you very much for all your hard work.
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Whether a person is Bon, Muslim, Dorje Shugden adherents if they are Tibetans, the CTA should take care of them nonetheless and must make sure their welfare is taken into consideration. The ban against Dorje Shugden is similar to the apartheid and thank goodness the Tibetan Geluga lamas have settled themselves in every part of the world. Hence many 'Nelson Mandela' are working all over the world to overturn this ban, down with the BAN!
I also think the pages have been left out and taken down, as this is the practise with most people if this is a relatively static site they wont do much maintenance on them hence I would think the article is taken down also. Unless they are adding content which is unlikely there are much better ways to update content without affecting the current posting.
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wow! what an exciting news for today! Thank you Namdrol.
I went to the website as you said, and yes, it shows to me Page Not Found when I click 'His Holiness the Dalai Lama’s Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)' and 'Statement by the CTA on Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet' and also 'The Central Tibetan Administration’s position on the Shugden/Dholgyal followers from Tibet'.
Even now when the Dalai Lama talks about Dorje Shugden, His tune is softer compared to 10 and 5 years ago. CTA should do the same, at least show their respect to others by not harming the freedom of religious. I guess CTA has learnt to be 'smart'. Attacking Dorje Shugden's practitioners openly is really not a good idea as they don't have the ground to prove what they said and prove their stand!
To me this is a kind of big progress to those who tirelessly write on the website to clarify, make explanation and help the other Dorje Shugden practitioners to have a clear vision and knowledge to distinguish things.
Hope the ban be lifted ASAP! Hope the DS practitioners all in well.
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Does anyone recall the last scene from the 'Return of the Jedi', when all the people in the galaxy were celebrating the fall of the evil EMPIRE i kind of have that feeling now :) , just thought I share something light as it is a Friday.
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Now, I say, this is a step forward, definitive step forward.
I am very happy to read this post.
I thought this would be what the Dalai Lama expected to happen with the separation of spiritual/secular.
It means that Tibetans who follow Dorje Shugden now have a representative to talk to that they can go to in trust.
It means that the ban is loosing force, by loosing its secular arm.
News to rejoice. May we have more like this!
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AT LAST! And i believed Dr. Lobsang Sangye had a meeting with HHDL regarding this issue separating secular & spiritual world.
With 'New' CTA doing that, people around the world will be wondering why are the articles regarding Dorje Shugden been removed? Perhaps the ban is half way been lifted?
To all Dorje Shugden practitioners out there, i wish to congratulate for not giving up our believes towards our Gurus and Lamas. How can DS practises consider a crime? How can HH Trijang Rinpoche be wrong?
Lets rejoice this movement!! Let's unite the Tibetan people and let's unite Buddhism as it started from one source.
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There can be other causes to the website being down but you know what? It is good that even for a while that the articles cannot be accessed. This would mean those who went to read the articles could not access the false news and hopefully when they did another search on Dorje Shugden, it directed them to dorjeshugden.com! But if the CTA has really taken down the articles, LET'S REJOICE! The works of dorjeshugden.com is shaking them up!
CTA is being really childish not taking care of their citizens. Seriously, so what if they're Dorje Shugden practitioners? NO MATTER WHAT, THEY ARE STILL TIBETAN IN BLOOD AND SWEAT. That will never change. Isn't the CTA silly for driving out their own citizens hence making their community smaller? I find that rather weird.
They always say they want to regain their independence of Tibet but don't they know they can do it better with a larger, smarter, brighter community? LOOK out there, so many High Lamas of Dorje Shugden have a NAME out there in the world. They can be of much help to the country and people.
CTA, WAKE UP!!!
I wanted to gently say the website IS NOT DOWN, but the articles removed. There's a difference. If it is removed, this means the CTA realizes it is bad for their PR to ban a sector of their own people due to religious beliefs.
This is an excellent post by Namdrol. I thank Namdrol for his vigilance. It has really made my week. I feel extremely happy to see this 'trend' I dare hope.
CTA is the secular 'leaders' of the Tibetans in exile at least. And if they still require the millions ($) in donations they are recieving to survive and operate their activities, they need to have good PR. Good PR means no ban, no suppression of their own people, no bias and religious injustices. Otherwise they sound like medieval England, Spain or witch hunts 200 years ago in the Americas.
The chronic problem with majority of CTA people is that they are highly backwards, uneducated, unexposed, very sedentary, always looking for handouts, have never travelled the world, have zero background in democratic modern governance. Their only source of information is BBC and Dalai Lama. With Phd Harvard graduate Lobsang Sangye coming in, there might be a difference. But we must do our part. We must write in, do E-protests (forum writings, Facebook, social medias) to continuously create an embarrassing situation for CTA. We are embarrassing them with their own silly and outdated ban, policies against a sector of people who's only crime is practicing Shugden. How can Dalai Lama say "choose him or Shugden?" It's not as simple as that, to choose Shugden means you can't vote, get medical assistance from Tibetan doctors, attend Tibetan schools, take part in decisions of the exile Tibetans, expelled from Monasteries. It's not freedom of choice but blackmail and pure dictatorial imposition.
We must continue to create more awareness and keep up the pressure. All Shugden practitioners must continue to group together and not stay apart or argue on idealogical/philosophical differences. That can be continued (if necessary) when the ban is released or forgotten. The ban is just like apartheid. We must group together to remove this unfair, undemocratic and outdated apartheid. Religious freedom should be enjoyed by all citizens of Tibet and the world.
Down with Tibetan apartheid.
TK
TK has pointed out a key point here! The current Prime Minister, Dr Lobsang Sangye is a highly intelligent PhD holder. Perhaps with his leadership, and Dorje Shugden practitioners valid points and pressure there will be a change!
If Dr Lobsang sets the right momentum, we will see a long term positive change. All the future Prime Ministers and leaders will follow suit because of the positive results shown by this current Prime Minister. I highly believe that if CTA stops their suppression against Dorje Shugden practitioners, financially they will be sound, they will have great support internationally and all Tibetans will no longer be separated.
For years now, even kids understand that if we unite, many more things can be achieved!
Down with CTA's ignorance! CTA cannot win!
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OMG!!!!! Wow! This is great news! :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) ::)The CTA is certainly watching our little friendly web forum. The hours spent discussing and analyzing why and how the CTA should abandon the ban is bearing a little bit of fruit. This is great! CTA, you are doing the right thing! Please don't stop with just the DS content on your website. Please gradually remove all traces of the ban from the Tibetan psyche.
Please remove the signs that outlaw Dorje Shugden practitioners at all your institutions. Please disseminate this info to all your governmental departments and continue by requesting the great monasteries to stop the swearing monks as the swearing and segregation of Shugden practitioners does not help the Tibetan cause. The monks should be provided with constitutional rights to choose whether to practice or not. Please disseminate this information to all Tibetans to accept and live with each other harmoniously. Please ensure that all Tibetans know that there must be unity and harmony which in turn will contribute to the Tibetan cause. The power is in the hands of the Tibetan people now as was the intention of the Dalai Lama all along. So wield it wisely.
Bottom line, the Tibetan cause is achieved when there's harmony and when all traces of old policies like the ban is eradicated. This will be beneficial for the Tibetan cause - No more ban!
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Thank you, Namdrol, for sharing such wonderful news with us! I went into CTA website as per those topics you click; it shows “unable to connect”. I feel this is sometime good to rejoice. Why are those topics removed? Is Kalon Tripa Dr. Lobsang Sangay doing something right now? Is he trying not to mix secular matters with religious ones? If so, will he be able to reunite the Tibetans as one instead of segregate them due to religious matters. I sincerely hope that Lobsang Sangay will be fair to treat all his citizens equally and if he does he gains my deepest respect.
As DS practitioners, we must create more awareness and together with the unsung heroes let us put in our effort to the lifting of the ban. May it be soon!!!
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To all the open and hidden DS warriors , well done !
This is indeed a good sign for what we have been fighting for - Lifting of the Ban and true Freedom in Spiritual Practice.
Another thing I realize is the power of social media. Thanks to internet and all the related tools , we can influence and help people from different parts of the world swiftly and effectively.
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Wow! This is exceptionally good news. The CTA has finally removed things that would be considered anti-shugden on their website. Thank you, Dr. Lobsang Sangye. Lobsang Sangye is separating religion and secular subjects. Good for him. He is creating the causes for the Tibetans to be more united. It feels like the ban is slowly drifting away :D
However, we still need to stay vigilant. We must create more pressure but NOT in a bad way. We must create more awareness about this situation. That way, the ban will be lifted even sooner.
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I am very happy to read the news. Thank you Namdrol for sharing it with us. I sincerely wish that CTA will act as a true secular government to Tibetan people. Tibetan DS practitioners have not gone to exile to be further discriminated for their choice of religion. As choosing your own religion is one's basic human rights.
I sincerely hope that the ban will be lifted soon.
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I have checked their website thoroughly and found that the most of the articles regarding Shugden has been removed from their system. There are still a few Shugden related articles, such as:
http://tibet.net/2010/04/21/delhi-high-court-dismisses-dorjee-shugden-devotees-charges/ (http://tibet.net/2010/04/21/delhi-high-court-dismisses-dorjee-shugden-devotees-charges/)
but most of the more "fierce" articles have been removed. I take that it is a good sign for the Dorje Shugden practitioners.
However, until the official press release for all Dorje Shugden practitioners to enjoy the same benefits as others is released, I will not celebrate yet. Instead, if DorjeShugden.com has done his part in causing the articles to be removed, I felt the DorjeShugden.com team should work even harder for the ban to be lifted SOONER. DorjeShugden.com cannot relax and wait for it to happen, and must continue to find new ways to make the CTA's ears itchy so that they know they, as human to human, cannot let the practitioners suffer anymore.
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THis is definitely good news. I supposed it is a hint for the ban to be removed eventually. Negative links about Dorje Shugden removed and www.antishugden.com (http://www.antishugden.com) is down is a clear sign. I hope CTA will bring about positive changes for their citizens by creating unity and upholding religious freedom and harmony.
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Thank you Namdrol,
I have checked, it's really showed "page not found".
This is really a great news.
Kalon Tripa does making some action for a change for GOOD.
Realizing the important of unity of the people is important to make them strong. Not sure how far Kalon Tripa as a leader of the cabinet will move on from here but it definitely a good start. No doubt it's like a silent move but is good move. It should continue to remove all the unnecessary that will not bring benefit to the people as a whole.
CTA want to restore freedom and happiness in Tibet. Gather the people in, Lord Shugden partitioners are part of the people. Unity will make them strong.
Agree with Wisdom Being, CTA should be praise for such work, this is also to show them that they will get support for standing for human right.
Rejoice.
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This a very good news for all the Dorje Shugden practitioners.
CTA is taking actions by removing controversial articles. They are moving towards harmony now.
That is the right way to go. Since the state is to after their people's right this should be continue.
Really rejoice for the moved and a good sign from CTA. Bright future for the ban to be lifted.
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China government did a great job, Dorje Shundge ban should remove early, religion and polite should not be mixed up together.
Religion practice is a very personal issue, will not affect any polite, everyone want a harmony, unity and a peaceful world. And Buddha Dorje Shundge can benefit many people in many ways.
So please totally remove.
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Finally! Some sense kicked in into the CTA on how to manage the DS ban.
It is as many have hoped for, a separation between state and religion. I suppose they noticed this issue has to be addressed as it is after all the main cause that's causing disharmony within their own circle... Although it is so obvious from the start, but people do get blinded when it comes to siding with their own personal views and agendas.
Frankly speaking, I thought the PM was incapable, unwise, and unable to be the wise circular leader that is much needed by his people, mainly due to his earlier lack of action in addressing the issue on DS ban. However, if CTA websites has truly and permanently removed ALL articles that is directly indicating the ban on DS, then there is hope that CTA is a functioning 'government' that takes the interest of the people's welfare.
All DS practitioners everywhere, Rejoice! This is truly good news as we can see it as a soft lifting of the ban. Now is the time for all of us to push harder and not let it die down and remain as only this. With more effort, the ban can be lifted officially.
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What a great NEWS!! Thank you Namdrol for sharing this exciting news!
How can leaders of a country ban their citizen from getting education, medical and other benefits a citizen should have. Even a person who is an EX-PRISONER has the RIGHT to receive all the helps and benefits like other citizen of the country!
So many friends and relatives were being separated, hurt, back biting because of the ban, truly this is not the way to have peace and harmony. If CTA’s reason of enforcing the ban strongly (towards Shugden practice) is to get independent, then HOW does the segregation HELP Tibet to become independent?
I’m so glad the CTA under the leadership of Dr. Lobsang is doing something right, or at least realize what they are doing is totally backward and cruel.
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Thank you Namdrol for sharing this interesting news. I've checked the website and the links related to Dolgyal are no longer there. I've also checked that when it says "page not found" it actually means that the page was originally there but it was either relocated or deleted. This shows that the new government has realized that by banning ds practitioners who are also their own citizen is only making their community smaller and why the separation due to different religious views?
A bunch of closed minded, uneducated, stubborn and refuse to look at bigger picture people will not make it. The community will only shrink if they continue the ban. I'm glad that by removing the articles, it tells us that Dr Lobsang Sangye is actually plotting something, and it's kinda obvious that this discrimination is an obstacle for Tibet to move on.
Look at the meeting between Panchen Lama and Wen Jia Bao, it clearly shows us the Unity, Harmony and Acceptance they want to promote to the world. Why cant CTA wake up and realize things already?
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Dorje Shugden's around the world REJOICE with these good news!May there be more good news in future.Perhaps the Kalon Tripa wants the people to be united by slowly removing the secular side first and watch the outcome.It's time for tthe government to be fair to it's citizen,regardless of their religious beliefs.In this way there will be peace and harmony within the country.
Through the collective prayers of Dorje Shugden's practitioners,the ban will be lifted permanently.
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I have checked their website thoroughly and found that the most of the articles regarding Shugden has been removed from their system. There are still a few Shugden related articles, such as:
[url]http://tibet.net/2010/04/21/delhi-high-court-dismisses-dorjee-shugden-devotees-charges/[/url] ([url]http://tibet.net/2010/04/21/delhi-high-court-dismisses-dorjee-shugden-devotees-charges/[/url])
but most of the more "fierce" articles have been removed. I take that it is a good sign for the Dorje Shugden practitioners.
However, until the official press release for all Dorje Shugden practitioners to enjoy the same benefits as others is released, I will not celebrate yet. Instead, if DorjeShugden.com has done his part in causing the articles to be removed, I felt the DorjeShugden.com team should work even harder for the ban to be lifted SOONER. DorjeShugden.com cannot relax and wait for it to happen, and must continue to find new ways to make the CTA's ears itchy so that they know they, as human to human, cannot let the practitioners suffer anymore.
This is very positive news for Shugdenpas! One step closer towards lifting of the ban. I agree with what Kris said that unless there is official confirmation BY THE CTA that all Tibetans will receive equal rights and treatment, then we still cannot fully rejoice, and that we must still continue to work hard to bring CTA's treatment of Shugdenpa's down. This is definitely a step up, and this result shows that Shugdenpas have to unite, come together, and ride on this, to make their stance. Until the time that there will be no more discrimination against Shugdenpas on a secular level, then we can rejoice more. We cannot let this opportunity to fight slip away!
It is blatant stupidity that the CTA chose to come down so hard on Shugdenpas.. because religion and politics should be two separate things from the beginning. Now that Dr. Lobsang Sangye has taken over, the CTA has no reason to continue ruling Tibetans with a "religious motive" also. They have no backing, no support (in religious rights), as opposed to when HHDL was in place.
So why has this removing of articles come about on the CTA website?
1.) Dr Lobsang Sangye has put some sense into the governing body, seeing it as an opportunity to segregate secular works from religion.
2.) For the world to see (not the lay Tibetans because I doubt most of have computers) that it is their first step to harmonizing the nation. It may just be a front. They might however choose not to do anything apart from removing these articles, which would not result in anything for Tibetan DS practitioners in terms of having their rights. We shall see.
3.) Finally realise that they need the support from their people, the Tibetans , and that maybe they were a little extreme (duh!) hehe.
4.) I feel that HHDL has his own reasons to picking Dr. Lobsang Sangye to lead the country as a secular head.... maybe this is what HHDL has planned all this while.
Anyways, it is still very positive news that CTA is toning down their take on Shugdenpas. Thanks Namdrol for this! There was no need to divide their people in the first place, and now, they're slowly reversing their actions.
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Thank you, thank you.
The Tibetan people have been deprived of their human rights for so long; DS practiioners being side-lined for their practice of this Protector.
Dr Lobsang has the foresight to separate secular and religious issues from office. This is the way to move forward.
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It's a good news to brighten up my days, agree with Kris this should not be a celebration yet, but no doubt it is a really GOOD news.
People from all around the world started to notice DS, thanks to HHDL and the ban. By more and more people know about the ban, people will try to understand more about DS, and based on what reasons he's so dangerous and CTA must kill him.
I believe a lot of people started to know the truth, they know whatever bad news that CTA made out about DS are not true.
If Mr. Lobsang Sangye the new Kalon Tripa of CTA really is the one who take out these news from their website, I must say thank you very much. Mr. Lobsang Sangye, you are making a step forward to bring harmony and peace to your own people. I hope Mr. Lobsang see it with his own eyes, how his fellow Tibetans suffer from the ban, how many people force to leave their beloved family because they have different view on DS. I doesn't means to be rude, Tibetan have lost their home 50 over years ago, why still put salt on wound? why create more problems within Tibetan community ? Why make our own family suffereing more ? If someone take over my home, I will not create another problem with my sibling and pointing finger on each other, I will work closely with my family and make sure everyone is ok.
I thanks Mr. Lobsang Sangye to fulfill your duty, you are doing a good job, and you are helping your family to be unity again. I hope the ban will be lifted soon, and all Tibetan from around the world will have a peace of mind. and may all suffering stop.
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This is great news - hopefully of better things to come.
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Wow! This a great news and a good sign for all the Dorje Shugden practitioners. From this issue we can see that closer the ban to be lifted soon..... :) and CTA is already taking actions by removing controversial articles. Same they are slowly moving towards harmony now. we are notices from this issue Dr.Lobsang Sangye is making a step forward to bring harmony and peace to the Tibetans, and he is creating the causes for the Tibetans to be more united. Realizing that the religion and polite should not be mixed up together.
Dorje Shugden practitioners must still continue to work hard and unity to the bright future for the ban to be lifted soon... :)
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This is indeed wonderful news and heartiest congratulations and a big thank you must go out to the Administrators of Dorjeshugden.com and all its contributors.
The removal of certain articles on CTA websites signals the reversal of CTA's stance on the Shugden affair. My opinion of this is as follows:
(i) The hard work and dedication of this Website and Forum has got the whole world looking at the CTA and asking questions that are uncomfortable to the CTA. The Administrators of DorjeShugden.com has successfully engaged the international community on the subject of the Shugden ban.
(ii) The CTA is now aware that it is being watched closely by the international community online;
(iii) The CTA has decided that either (a) it cannot afford any more bad press especially when questions about it's credibility as a government for all Tibetans regardless of their stance on the Shugden affair, is going viral and reaching more and more people and/or (b) it has changed its stance from being anti-Shugden to being neutral. Being neutral on religious beliefs of its citizens the correct position for a fair Government to take;
(iv) Dr Lobsang Sangye is coming into his own and is now exercising his powers away from the influence of HHDL.
At this critical juncture everyone seeking justice for Shugden practitioners should now step up their activities to draw even more attention onto the matter and force the ban to be lifted quickly. Build on the momentum that has been gained now that we know that the CTA is sensitive to the scrutiny of the only international community.
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This is good news indeed about the CTA. At least finally CTA is getting more civilised in their governmental practice. Good for CTA if they are going to succeed in governing Tibet they need to win their people, unite them and create harmony. By not banning dorje Shugden their uphill task is half won. I must say Kalon Tripa of the CTA is smart by not mixing up secular and religious affairs.
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OMG!!!!! Wow! This is great news! :) ;) :D ;D :o 8) ::)The CTA is certainly watching our little friendly web forum. The hours spent discussing and analyzing why and how the CTA should abandon the ban is bearing a little bit of fruit. This is great! CTA, you are doing the right thing! Please don't stop with just the DS content on your website. Please gradually remove all traces of the ban from the Tibetan psyche.
CTA is definitely watching and reading our forum. All the more important we band together and write on the forum. We need to let them know Shugden will not and cannot be suppressed.
TK
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Thank you to Namdrol!
It's really showed page not found.
Wohoo.. good news to Tibetan Dorje Shugden practitioner! Wish the ban will be lifted soon.
Is very obvious that CTA removed Dolgyal topics from CTA website "quietly", CTA might found out a "truth" of DS.
Thanks to Dr Lobsang Sangye seeing the truth of religion freedom.
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Thank You Namdrol for sharing such wonderful news!
It is a good sign that CTA is toning down their stance on the Shugden issue and perhaps CTA is slowly moving towards the complete ban.
I fully agree with Kris and Manjushri, unless it is official from the CTA, we cannot afford to slow down our effort to completely lift the ban.
Wisdombeing brought up a good point. We must highlight this recent movement by CTA to the all Tibetans.
Perhaps it is timely now to launch a signature campaign on the internet to petition the CTA to lift the ban? All Tibetans and practitioners affected by the current ban should sign on this petition to request the removal of this ban. What do you all think?
Upon checking the CTA website, I had noticed an article below:
http://tibet.net/2012/02/15/kalon-tripa-launches-tibet-policy-institute/ (http://tibet.net/2012/02/15/kalon-tripa-launches-tibet-policy-institute/)
Kalon Tripa Launches Tibet Policy Institute
Kalon Tripa said the institute aims to carry out comprehensive research works on all aspect of Tibet-related issues, which he underlined would help the administration in framing policies for the next fifty years and making the Tibet issue a competent case on the international platform.
When Kalon Tripa said “all aspect of Tibet-related issue”, does it include the plight of the Tibetans who practise Dorje Shugden? Since this institute will be doing research on many Tibet-related issues including political issues, it is timely that CTA be well informed about the ban and its effects on the Tibetans.
We need to provide Tibet Policy Institute and CTA all the relevant information about the Dorje Shugden and why the ban should be lifted completely now!
This news, combined with the demise of antishugden.com certainly bodes well for Dorje Shugden practitioners. I wonder what is the sentiment of the Tibetan community though - are they even aware that the CTA is softening its stance, at least on the official level. It is vital then that we write to Tibetan news/media to highlight this issue and praise the CTA for its progressiveness. When appropriate credit is given, especially in the international arena, perhaps this will be an incentive for the CTA to be more vocal about its stance to Dorje Shugden.
However, until the official press release for all Dorje Shugden practitioners to enjoy the same benefits as others is released, I will not celebrate yet. Instead, if DorjeShugden.com has done his part in causing the articles to be removed, I felt the DorjeShugden.com team should work even harder for the ban to be lifted SOONER. DorjeShugden.com cannot relax and wait for it to happen, and must continue to find new ways to make the CTA's ears itchy so that they know they, as human to human, cannot let the practitioners suffer anymore.
This is very positive news for Shugdenpas! One step closer towards lifting of the ban. I agree with what Kris said that unless there is official confirmation BY THE CTA that all Tibetans will receive equal rights and treatment, then we still cannot fully rejoice, and that we must still continue to work hard to bring CTA's treatment of Shugdenpa's down. This is definitely a step up, and this result shows that Shugdenpas have to unite, come together, and ride on this, to make their stance. Until the time that there will be no more discrimination against Shugdenpas on a secular level, then we can rejoice more. We cannot let this opportunity to fight slip away!
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I'm happy to hear that the section has been removed from the CTA website. There is indeed a difference with a Fullbright scholar in position. I'm not surprised as Lobsang Sangay even organised conferences between His Holiness the Dalai Lama and 35 Chinese scholars at Harvard University in 2003.
2 days ago, the Kalon Tripa also inaugurated the Tibet Policy Institute, which "would strive to focus on research towards evolving policies to tackle challenges in the coming fifty years in all spheres of Tibet issue".
The Kalon Tripa also has plans to make Gangchen Kyishong (the seat of the Central Tibetan Administration in Dharamsala) an “Intellectual Hub” where top researchers from India and abroad will be invited to hold monthly and annual debates and symposiums to hone the skills and knowledge of the Tibetan researchers.
Now, I wonder if Gaden Phodrang will be as progressive? 8)
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Dear all,
This is very good sign that the CTA has noticed this the ban doesn't bring any benefit at all to Tibetan. It will only bring suffering to the Dorje Shugden practitioners.
Dr Lobsang Sangye is very open and he has very clear mind. He knows that secular and religion cannot mix together, it is not important if a person is a Dorje Shugden practitioner. If all Tibetan can live in harmony, the 'country' will definitely improve.
For the Dorje Shugden practitioner, it is a very good news. That means we can practice openly !! Keep it up and show the world ! We have done nothing wrong, we just want to do our practice to be a better person. We do not intend to hurt anyone.
Dorje Shugden will bring harmony & unity to the world.
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OMB!! this is awesome news! i can't help smiling as i read this post, thanks Namdrol for checking in on the CTA and sharing this great news! the tide is changing! the epic ending to this story is about to unfold!
If i remember correctly, i went to the CTA website few months ago and there was a special section just for anti-DS propaganda... the whole website theme looks different now actually.. it used to be maroon (like monk's robes) and beige, now its blue and green. I just went again to check the website, the special section is gone, and indeed, the links to articles on CTA's stand on DS draws a blank =D =D
i'm really happy! cos i remember feeling upset about how they wrote about DS that time, its like the feeling of someone you hold dear to you whom would never hurt anyone ever being defamed for manslaughter no valid reason. ah yes... felt a sense of injustice.
CTA removing the articles means there must be a lot of pressure on them, most probably from the international community. CTA knows that if they want to survive in this world, they need to make friends with everyone. and doing things which are against international standards for human rights and saying things which are obviously contradictory, is a BIG BIG deal breaker.
There must have been enough noise made by the international community to make CTA begin the reversal of their stand on DS, and these international movers and shakers must have been working overtly and covertly... makes my hair stand to imagine all the DS practitioners all over the world, quietly working and unknowingly doing it together to lift the ban.
Reminds me of this song by the late Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey: "There can be miracles when you believe, though hope is frail, its hard to kill... who knows what miracles, you can achieve, when you believe, somehow you will.... you will when you believe..." :D
DS ninja workers.... keep it up! CTA and the world is watching, listening and changing!
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The Dalai Lama has not changed anything on his website, which I am sure gets many more viewers than the CTA website
http://www.dalailama.com/messages#shugden (http://www.dalailama.com/messages#shugden)
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Indeed, it is the most happy and wonderful news for all Tibetans :D
Thank you Namdrol for highlighting this latest progress in CTA's stand pertaining to DS practitioners :)
Perhaps it is the new strategy of Dr Lobsang Sangye (as mentioned by some of friends posted here) or perhaps it is the commitment of CTA to bring Tibetans together to fight for self-governing authority / power in home country Tibet.
Whatever it is, this is definitely a new progress towards better future of all Tibetans residing in Tibet, India and other parts of the world. This is what should have been practiced by CTA from the beginning when HHDL started to ban DS practitioners from attending his teachings; religious matter and secular matters should not be mixed but it is still never too late.
This is a victory to DS practitioners and I would say it is a result of the never say die attitude and bravery of all practitioners to continue their practice, especially the old monks that being ostracized openly.
I also believed that this latest progress is being speed up by our good dear admin and all the friends in DS.com that continue to bring this issue forward in public.
Rejoice Rejoice Rejoice! I am waiting for ultimate good news for a total lift of the ban ;D
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Yeaa~~
This is a very good sign!! For the first time when I saw "Page not found" I feel so happy, been refreshing a few time, it still shows "Page not found", I??????????????????????????????????????????
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???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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This is a good thing, the central government has been quietly accept Dorje Shugden although not openly. This shows that he is separating politic from religion, the Tibetan people soon will have their freedom of religion.
Dorje Shugden ban could be lifted soon. People who have suffered so much just because they are Shugden practitioners will now have their justice back.
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Thank you Namdrol for the posting such wonderful findings about CTA having removed anti Dorje Shugden posts on their website.
A glorious thought is coming to my mind. Is this truly the brilliance of Dr. Lobsang Sangye or is he but a puppet to undo what is not correct?
Although I truly am grateful for this initiative by Dr. Lobsang Sangye, as a faithful practitioner of Dorje Shugden, I hope that part of what he is doing is by order of a very experienced Boss.
May this secular approach to unite Tibetans, be the first step to reconciliation with what should not be and cannot be stopped. The Era of the Protector of our Times, Dorje Shugden!
May all the work of awareness by Committed Practitioners come to fruition and May the BAN be lifted quickly.
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I also believe it is not due to the server down. As i know, Usually when it show "page not found" definitely the original article or the link has been removed. Even in the search engine you still can see but you won't be able open it because the source had been removed or relocated.
Obviously that CTA has deleted their previous articles. Perhaps they realize what they did in the previously are wrong? It's good that they are making this step and give the human right back to their people, treat everyone equally, not to create disharmony and disunity among their people.
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Woohoo! Thank you Namdrol, for the good news.
The effort made by posting and commenting about this subject matter is bearing tangible fruits! This reminds me of my Guru's teaching on being proactive and consistent in our efforts that will cause an eventual desired result. If we are sincere, we will consistently work for our Lord Dorje Shugden and the ban's lift will manifest!
So, besides thanking Namdrol for this update, I would like to thank everyone for playing a role and contributing to this exciting news. May this result reinforce our faith in our Protector, the dorjeshugden website and this forum. May our stronger faith, in turn, enhance the intensity of our hard work and focus to ensure that this campaign to lift the ban comes to a completion as soon as possible.
Until the ban is lifted and the sangha members who suffered greatly in upholding this sacred worship can practice openly in glory and with dignity, shall we not go to rest and keep our fingers tapping away on our key pads.
May the need for CTA to survive within the secular political system continue to drive them to make more "right" decisions to distance themselves from HH's stand on DS.
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This is great news. It is a stepping stone in the removal of the ban. Thank you to the work of many teams, such as the one of this website, with sending letter to these organizations. Thank you to all the people on the forum who work tirelessly in contributing to the forum, to those who raise awareness about the Ban, and to those spreading Dorje Shugden through many means.
We must continue with what we are doing, it is not the time to ease up, because of one victory, but it should be a call to work even harder, as their is evidence that what we are doing is working. Lets keep contributing and raising awareness of the issue. Sooner or later the ban will become less and less publicized. It is because of all the hard work being done out there.
Thank you so much, may we dedicate the merit we attain through this type of work, whether it be contributing on this forum, or any other forms of DS work we do, to relieve the suffering of all DS practitioners, and to the benefit of future DS practitioners.
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Yeah! It is indeed a great news! Thank you to Namdrol for keeping check on the latest progress of CTA.
Let this be the onset causes for the ban to be lifted much faster. How wise and brave for Kalon Tripa to have the articles removed...a commendable act. In fact, with all the collective writings and commenting on this website has indeed bore results. Congratulations to all who have contributed especially so to the admin of this website. This could be their first step to get on the good side and support of their fellow countrymen.
Quote,
http://tibet.net/2012/02/15/kalon-tripa-launches-tibet-policy-institute.... (http://tibet.net/2012/02/15/kalon-tripa-launches-tibet-policy-institute....)"Kalon Tripa said the institute aims to carry out comprehensive research works on all aspect of Tibet-related issues, which he underlined would help the administration in framing policies for the next fifty years and making the Tibet issue a competent case on the international platform."
Would the plight of the ostracized DS practitioners be looked into and allowed the freedom? Hmmm..
Anyway, lets all not rest on our laurels and continue to bang on our keyboards to have the ban be lifted soon.
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Wow.... thank you thank you thank you thank you Namdrol for this wonderful news. 'The Cage' has definitely been rattled!!! :) ;) :D ;D :P :-* 8)
Yes, it might be too soon for the bottle of champagne, but this is definitely a step forward for all DS warriors around the world.
Thank you to members and friends of ds.com for your continuous effort in promoting ds. Thank you Dr Lobsang Sangye for initiating this move and walking out of HHDL's shadow. May this move create the causes for the lifting of the ban soon.
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The Dalai Lama has not changed anything on his website, which I am sure gets many more viewers than the CTA website
[url]http://www.dalailama.com/messages#shugden[/url] ([url]http://www.dalailama.com/messages#shugden[/url])
So what would you like to do about it?
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Yes, when I tried to check the link, it is showing “Page not found” too. Searched through the Chinese website and do not find the relevant articles too.
If it is due to CTA is reconsidering their ban on DS under the leadership of Lobsang Sangyye, it is really a great news to rejoice.
May the ban be lifted and DS practitioners can freely practice and more people can be benefited from the supreme protector.
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This is a very very great news for many who really hoping the BAN can remove fast!!! Sorry I want to say I not really know what was CTA had done in previous years to dorje shudgen practitioner. But I believed that is will be many ugly things had done by them to "torture" the dorje shugden practitioner. Now, under this new Tibetan government, they started to change their trend.....I think, if not they won't bother to remove those links.
I not sure what is the real motivation from Tibetan government side....suddenly changed the trend. but I believe the new Tibetan government start think about the BAN issue seriously nowadays. They seem like try to separate spiritual and politic which had conceptualized over 10 years ago by Dalai Lama.
The BAN issue no right or wrong....however because the ban then someone be hurt then I think this should be considering....why? Because at least 90% of Tibatan ds practitioner practice ds only stand in pure motivation, they didn't deserve this kind of"punishment". I think for this reason, as a new Tibetan government should be consider...the BANNN issue.
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Hi HS,
The tibetan government in exile real motivation for toning down DS talk and overt things on their website?
My thinking is that their focus will be more and more towards actually secular affairs as already stated by HHDL.
Tibetans running their affairs on their own without HHDL in the equation and in the long run one would also assume without the substantial financial contributions from HHDL worldwide teaching tours and associated brand Dalai Lama.
Presently, funding is made up of worldwide relief organizations, western governments, private charitable trusts, private individuals, independence tax (green book) and recently (blue book) donations solicited by any pro HHDL individuals in the west.
A large proportion is contributed from HHDL teachings abroad (not sure of the exact percentage but think its around 30%). So what happens to CTA if they cannot count on HHDL funding when he is not around in the future?
Will large donors be as forthcoming with financial support and aide when no Dalai Lama?
How will the CTA handle PR situations when Dalai Lama not around? Presently no media or reporters do not report negatively about Dalai Lama because he is big News around the world, and the world cannot get enough of him (sells papers, tv ratings, national, international news) not hard to see why.
The real question is not what is the motivation behind the CTA/TGIE but is their actually a clear separation of Spiritual and Secular affairs.
Who is taking leadership of this from the CTA/TGIE side?
Newly Elected Prime Minister Dr Lobsang Sangye could issue a statement with these subtle changes on their website that the MAIN FOCUS OF THE CTA IS TO FOCUS ON SECULAR AFFAIRS TO BRING BENEFIT TO ALL TIBETANS IRREGARDLESS OF THE DS AFFAIR AND BRING PEACE OF MIND TO ALL TIBETANS.
Hope this helps HS? if anyone can add to the trail of the Phantom Understated Finances within the CTA? (not very transparent in my humble oppinion).
Please excuse me a bit off topic but will post more on the 4question thread soon ;D
I think we need to collectively keep up the pressure and focus the spotlight onto the CTA representatives and what they are doing in relation to what they stand for, which we all know they have not done in equal measure for DS practitioners worldwide and in India.
CTA your words of honour should match what you stand for! Actions and words should be one and the same. You want to be respected by the International Community (as a progressive Buddhist Country) FOCUS ONLY ON SECULAR MATTERS would be a good start.
When the Dalai Lama is not around I don't think the world will be as forgiving for indiscretions against its own people examples of change around the world? examples Egypt / Middle East / Syria etc...I am not comparing CTA to these places? some might say Yes? But you can see how the media treats these issues because BAD NEWS also is BIG NEWS...just food for thought.
xo
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Namdrol! This is incredible news - totally brightened my day. THANK YOU! I rejoice in your efforts to have found this out.
I rejoice also in all the work that this website and its people have done to put pressure (nicely!) on the government over these few years. We may think, in the short term, that a few letters couldn't change anything, that maybe they might just be thrown away or whatever. A few people have said this to me and scoffed at the idea. I disagree. whether or not the CTA and their people actually read letters is not the point (perhaps some of them don't even speak english well!). But surely, just receiving the letters alerts them to the fact that there are people who are watching the situation and who are QUESTIONING in very logical, clear ways. The letters become an embarrassment to them. It shows them that the ban isn't just affecting the few hundred thousand Tibetans in exile in India but THE WORLD IS WATCHING.
IF they want to compete on a global scale as an internationally recognised people, they they had better get their act together and act in accordance with the global standards of human rights and governance of the people.
Karmically, also, the very effort of preparing these letters - from writing to sending to discussing them online - definitely contributes to something beyond what we can see. Karmically, we are creating the causes for the truth of Dorje Shugden's practice to grow in the world, unfettered. By doing all we can to draw attention to the silliness of the ban and its illogic, we create the cause for the ban to be diluted. It is logical after all - the more knowledge, education and awareness there is in the world about the truth of Dorje Shugden's nature, the more difficult it becomes to quash the practice by that silly illogic upheld by anti-shugdenpas.
Karmically, all these acts add up to become a huge lake of water. Whatever puny efforts by the CTA to denounce the practice become only like a small pot of ink that they may try to tip into the lake - it becomes barely noticeable.
Congratulations again to dorjeshugden.com I think you deserve it. A great reward for all your hard work.
Next mission: to remove all the shugden references from the Dalai lama's website also!??
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The next step is CTA change their name to CSA
And their site changed to http://CentralShugdenAdministration.com (http://CentralShugdenAdministration.com)
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
(http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n637/nagaseeker/csasite.jpg)
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Wow, this is surprising, indeed, when I click on the link, it shows page not found, further to check on whether is the website error or not, I have click on other link and all got no problem except Dorje Shugden issue.
After the tone down comment re Shugden by HHDL and now shugden link in CTA page is gone, this is a clear sign that the ban of Dorje Shugden is slowly faded away. I have also tried to log in to www.antishugden.com (http://www.antishugden.com) several times, but it says page is not loading, not sure is my PC problem or the site is down.
From the consistency and spread of Dorje Shugden, I guess the CTA now has reconsidered the statement of Dorje Shugden. The fact is, regardless of what deity they believe / worship, the citizen is still the citizen, a country is depend on the people, projects, money contributions, investments, everything that the government wanted to do will depend on the people, but if the government is splitting up the people, how foolish it will be.
If the CTA is really removing this state of discrimination, Tibet will definitely grow and become a much better country. Can’t wait for Tibet to become a spiritually freedom for Buddhism.
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This is a very positive news that topics on Shugden have been removed from CTA website. All of you who did this website should be commended for a job well done. There is so much contents here and I am sure has provided the much needed information to the CTA. Perhaps many on the decision makers board in CTA do not even know much about who Shugden really is and they just went along with the decision. I say this with conviction because when I first heard about the ban years ago, I was confused myself. I have been following this website and has provided me and my colleagues with a clear picture on this matter.
This new CTA administration has made a wise decision in correcting their misconception. Or so it seems. How can they be campaigning around the world to free tibet on grounds of freedom and democracy when they themselves do not walk the talk and surpress their own people on freedom of choice of spiritual practice????? Does not make one bit of sense to me!
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Dear Nagaseeker... Let me start by saying, very cute the way you have "created" this visual of the CTA website. Who is to say this wont happen in the future!!! ;)
Anyway, on the topic at hand, I believe there is cause to rejoice... however, CTA's stance is still rather "unclear". They may have removed "incriminating evidence" towards their discriminatory positions and written stance on their website but that can be seen as purely a self defence game plan.
Having said that, it is very good that they are even considering taking this step. So perhaps the splilt between secular and spiritual can be attained even within the CTA? We will have to keep a close watch on this and perhaps some encouragement to CTA with this regard could be good (e.g. send them messages on their website or write in to let them know).
It is a positive step for sure and I know with the spread of Dorje Shudgen around the planet, the ban will indeed become a thing of the past... in fact, the ban would have "served its purpose" so to speak.
Keep up the good work the team behind dorjeshugden.com as I am sure all the rattling is indeed creating quite a ruckus now and it is just a matter of time... Thank you and I am sure everyone here in the forum will continue to contribute and share.
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This is incredible news. Thank you Namdrol for bringing this ray of light into my life which is looking so bleak at this moment. I would say that all the prayers and hopes of all the Shugden practitioners all over the world are being answered. To all the people everywhere who are working very hard to get the ban lifted, please carry on with your cause. This is proof all your hard work are bearing fruits. May the ban be lifted soon. Very soon.
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Hopefully this is a sign for Lobsang Sangays step in the right direction. If theyre doing this quietly, or making a fanfare of it, I dont really care...just get rid of the ban!
I mean, COME ON. What kind of democratic government devotes an ENTIRE section of their website on suppression? Most governments dedicate sections on their website to the eradication of suppression and segregation, not the other way around. Yet another sign of the CTAs backward thinking...or should I say, gradually-former backwards thinking. I guess now their ready to throw off the shackles and move into the 22nd century!
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I think this is the best news that I had so far. I really happy to know that. How nice that the CTA together with the Prime Minister are taking the right step doing the right thing. This shows that they are making an effort to play their part correctly for sake for their people. I hope the welfare of Dorje Shudgen practitioners could be improved from today on. So such of suffering they have been accountered ever since the ban started.
Dorje Shugden practioners should have the right just like any other Tibetan. Their children should allowed go to school, they can get a job, to have the respect as normal human being deserved to have.
This is such a relief when I read about it. Thank you for sharing this with us. I do hope this is the first step to the lift of the ban.
Rejoice that the PM and CTA have started to act something right. I really appreciate their effort very much. Thank you.
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There are 2 possibilities of pages disappear in website, 1 is hacked, another one is deleted by it's own admin.
In this case, the chance for the second possibility is higher. Because if it's done by hacker, it will not be these little amount of content be deleted.
Seems like the Dalai group started to open more space for Dorje Shugden practice.
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Tashi Delek to All, If We check properly the website of CTA, Under Kashag the Executive of CTA, the Office of kalons, there is a section called "Political and Public Affairs" Under this section, it is still there as one of their work to be "Dolgyal Affairs Scrutiny Section".
So nothing is changed.
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CTA removed all anti dorje shugden site is wise decision. Now even china government accepted panchen lama whom practise ds , which mean future will have more and more ds practitioner manifest. At the same time will have more people hate HHDL and CTA if CTA keep promote to ban ds.
Very simple choice here,
1) CTA love and protect HHDL, should support more to lift the ban now.
2) CTA and HHDL in future will become the most ugly unit or people in vajrayana buddhism.
May DS win in this battle !
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What a great news to DS practitioners !
From the recents news of
1)HHDL hand over his secular power to prime minister, 2) China government met Panchen Lama whom practice DS to 3) CTA removed DS topics from website
Logically, if CTA remains those DS articles may create some negative effect to them, so they choose to removed the articles from website.
The voices of against DS is reduced shown the indication that DS's ban is will be lifted soon
DS.COM team, thanks for the effort, all these good news mean very much to me.
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Thank you Namdrol for this great piece of news!!! Finally the CTA is acknowledging that they are being discriminatory and decided to bring down the pages that has anything to do with the ban of Dorje Shugden. Have they come to their senses that they should represent all the people of Tibet and not just a part of the society.
Congratulations to Mr. Lobsang Sangay, the Kalon Tripa, for making such a stand. It is a beginning of a new era for Tibetans. And we hope that there will be more good news to come. We shall wait and see.
This also means that the Dalai Lama has loosened his grip on this ban. If not, do you think the pages could be so easily taken down? This is because all this years the Dalai Lama has combined politics and religion together because he was the head of Tibet. And no one can say anything about it but to follow.
Since the Dalai Lama has stepped down from politics, the CTA has a chance to step up and start to represent the people and be more like a democratic country.
Great job, Mr. Lobsang Sangay!
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Now, a chance to end Tibet stalemate
Lobsang Sangay Aug 7, 2011, 12.44am IST
Tags: Dalai Lama
Tomorrow, i take the oath to become the Kalon Tripa, or elected political leader, of the Tibetan people. I assume these duties with the support of His Holiness the Dalai Lama and a democratic mandate from Tibetans living in exile in 30 countries around the world. I will strive to restore freedom for Tibetans and the return of the Dalai Lama to Tibet. The values that i seek for Tibetans are those enjoyed and often taken for granted in India: freedom, equality, and dignity.
We are not against the Chinese people or China as a nation. We want to resolve the issue of Tibet peacefully through dialogue. But the Chinese people must know that historically Tibet and China were two different entities as enshrined in the Treaty of 821-822, which states that "Tibetan shall be happy in the land of Tibet and Chinese will be happy in the land of China."
The above quote was taken from : http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-08-07/all-that-matters/29860802_1_tibetan-administration-kalon-tripa-tibet-and-china (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2011-08-07/all-that-matters/29860802_1_tibetan-administration-kalon-tripa-tibet-and-china)
This is one of the articles at the Times of India, Lobsang Sangay mentioned that he will work towards the freedom for Tibetans and the return of HHDL. Does this means the ban of Dorje Shugden will be lifted very soon?
After reading this article and the links commenting about Dorje Shugden removed from www.tibet.net (http://www.tibet.net). I really feel shivering, this is word beyond than excited, after so many years, so much suffering, this is the time that I’m waiting, waiting for DS practitioner to be freed from all these unnecessary suffering.
As I was typing this, my tears just can’t stop flowing out, because this reminded me how much the monks went through in Shar Gaden, in Serpom. It is really heartbreaking when talking to the monks when I visited them last year.
If this is really what Lobsang Sangay is working towards, Freedom for Tibet will be very soon…
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Oh wow, Congratulation CTA for taking your first step to me a real democratic "government". I am sure the Tibetans and the world will be LOOKING at your next move.
I feel it is important that CTA during the reign of Lobsang Sangay to start strategising how they want benefit the Tibetans all over the world. I mean, look Tibetans in general do not even have travel documents to travel. They have a yellow refugee passport which is almost near impossible to travel. The "government" in charged of all Tibetan is now downgraded to just an administration office. It is so obvious they are losing grip of the Tibetans and their stands in the WORLD.
I have heard from friends that when they lost their country, most tibetans including the monks thought it will be only for awhile and not forever. There was a talk by Dalai Lama in 90s that he promised the Tibetan that they will return to Tibet in 2 years. I have heard from some monks in Gaden & Drepung that at that time, they were anticipating to return to Tibet. Most monks even had their bags packed. Of course that did not happened and this was when Dalai Lama diverted his promise to the Shugden issue. There was never a proper explanation on why Dalai Lama made that promise and why it was not fulfill.
Therefore, the whole TGIE and CTA operation was never meant to be in EXILE for so long. It is very apparent when you mix with the Tibetans especially the youth. They do not have any direction and most of them are wasting their life away. Too bad. Come to think about it do we know any famous TIBETAN BUSINESSMAN/ENTREPRENEUR?................. NONE
I do seriously hope, Lobsang Sangay does more than just removing Shugden out from the CTA website. Tibetans do have their LAMAs as an asset whereby they can use to gain a place for Tibetans in the world. BUT FIRST, they have to stop this ban on Shugden. It is time for Lobsang Sangay to make the Tibetan proud and use his HARVARD Phd Cert to use.
BY THE WAY, DOES ANYONE HAS THE VIDEO OF THE DALAI LAMA PROMISING THE TIBETANS THAT THEY WILL RETURN TO THEIR COUNTRY IN 2 YEARS TIME IN THE 1990s??
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Yes, not one single lay people that is truly famous amongst the Tibetans, yes Tibetans have exported and uprooted a lot of their main lamas to the rest of the world. I am thankful for that and that is the highest knowledge in samsara, it is dharma that can take us out of samsara so the Tibetans have offered a lot to the world though it was not by their choosing.
Also yes in the 1990's some of the monks were preparing to head back to Tibet already, well like in all things despite things are predicted to go this or that way, things can still changes sometimes in between. But I hope Lobsang Sangye like how shugdenpromoter is saying that use the top lamas to help you gain the influence of the international community, you have Gangchen Lama working for world peace for instance Geshe Kelsang 1000 centres all over the developed world , etc etc ...
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If i remember correctly, i went to the CTA website few months ago and there was a special section just for anti-DS propaganda... the whole website theme looks different now actually..
I made a silly blunder... the special anti-DS section was actually in HHDL's website! and the section is still there! boohoo....
Hopefully in the near future, the CTA will announce in its website that the ban is lifted! It just seems like a natural logical step to take after removing the DS literature from their site... go all the way CTA! Hopefully the next step will then be removing the anti-DS section in HHDL's site! Hopefully CTA is checking out this site and realising the benefits of lifting the ban!
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I wonder is this what you called the "swept under the rug" effect? haha... It is funny sometimes to see the CTA are so into it, talking, banning, using 101 ways to support the ban. Okay, party's is over where is the fun? Now many are getting more information on the internet, study and exploring. Eventually people will conduct their research and compare notes, we can not hide the truth from the people! Now, CTA has to find answers to all these. It seems like they have no substantial answers to the ban after all besides "HHDL says NO", "Evil spirit" hence the BAN.
With the newly elected Prime Minister Mr.Lobsang Sangay (he seems promising) with removing the articles on the Shugden issue, I personally feel it was a good move. Because there is no point talking about it anymore, it has divided people, the nation even loosing the nation. I think it is high time to unite people back together, and revive what Tibetans are well known for peace, spiritual and unity. Prove to the world that this is the nation that spread Buddhism to the world, world peace. and it should be like that.
I hope Mr.Lobsang Sangay will take this into consideration. And I am sure he will be after all the mess. Just think how monks and nuns died because of the ban, how many left homeless, sick and cut ties with families...? They are deserve to live, evil spirits or not. They are your people.
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Hopefully in the near future, the CTA will announce in its website that the ban is lifted! It just seems like a natural logical step to take after removing the DS literature from their site... go all the way CTA! Hopefully the next step will then be removing the anti-DS section in HHDL's site! Hopefully CTA is checking out this site and realising the benefits of lifting the ban!
I think we're all hopeful of the ban being lifted, but by not mentioning the ban on the CTA website and having it on the Dalai Lama's website, there is a cover up going on. What they are effectively saying is that it is a religious issue and not a political one - we know that the opposite is the case; it's ENTIRELY political.
If it's a religious issue and not a political one, it's more difficult to lift that ban because the Dalai Lama has pronounced that Dorje Shugden's nature is that of an evil spirit, not a Buddha, so how can Dorje Shugden change his nature? If the majority of people believe that Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit (based on no evidence, I know) simply because the Dalai Lama says so, his practice will be regarded as non-Buddhist and so the ban would never be lifted....or,. if it was, those who practised it would be seen as non-Buddhist or 'cultists' - precisely the view that the Dalai Lama and his followers are trying to plant into people's minds.
It would therefore follow that it would be more likely for the Bon tradition to be regarded as Buddhist than those who follow Dorje Shugden!
The only possibility is that the Dalai Lama is seen as wrong, but he has a great deal of power in this world and is very charismatic. I don't want to be pessimistic, but the chances are very slim indeed. Also he's not going to say that he was wrong, so if he dies with the ban in place, chances are that it will continue.
The only chance is that people see and believe the truth.
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I believe that whether the ban is lifted or not depends on what the Dorje Shugden practitioners do. We have to create the causes for the ban to be liften. Dorje Shugden has always advocated harmony. Unfortunately, I feel that often we are not. There are criticisms of those who believe in the bigger picture, criticisms of those who physically protested at the Dalai Lama. Criticisms, criticisms, criticisms. And what do they achieve? Disharmony. Disunity. Ergo, the perpetuation of the ban.
There are so many positive things we can do… we can write to the CTA, the media, NGOs, Tibetan organisations, governmental organisations. There are letters prepared already for those who do not wish to draft their own (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10541 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10541)). With these letters, I truly believe we can ‘make a difference’.
Re making the ban a religious issue, I think that politically, the CTA is empowered to change things – as I have often said previously, the CTA can gently lift the ban by allowing Dorje Shugden practitioners to travel freely. Previously, some monks who had escaped to Nepal and wanted to come to India were prohibited from joining the Tibetan refugee community as they were Dorje Shugden practitioners. The CTA can now say that politically, there is no issue, and let them in. The CTA can also allow children of Dorje Shugden practitioners to attend school. They can also stop shops from discriminating against Dorje Shugden practitioners. There is much that the CTA can do, but it depends if it has the political will to openly counter the Dalai Lama’s stance.
Tibetans have been away from their country for so many years. The young ones especially have never been to Tibet. Even Kalon Tripa, Dr Lobsang Sangay, has never set foot in Tibet. Tibetans are brought up all over the world now. What would they think of their ‘government’ being so petty over a spiritual matter? I’m sure many of the young ones wouldn’t give a flying toss over who Dorje Shugden is but they would care about how some Tibetans are ostracized. Even though there is no country to govern, these are your people, CTA. Watch what kind of example you are showing to them.