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General Buddhism => General Buddhism => Topic started by: kurava on February 03, 2012, 10:12:25 AM
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A high Lama once taught - merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action.
What do you understand from this?
What is the difference between doing a good deed :
(1) on our own initiative , and
(2)on the Guru's instruction ?
Will we collect merits from (1)?
Please give reasons for "Yes" and "No".
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I think in this instance where the person has a Guru and is given instructions by the Guru, following the instructions would generate merit and not following would be demerits. The Guru's main motivation is to guide his or her student towards Enlightenment. So every instruction given by the Guru would be for this purpose.
If the student follows his or her own thoughts on doing things without contradicting or neglecting the Guru's instructions and benefits others, merits will still be generated. However, if the student follows his or her own thoughts and neglects the Guru's instructions, then no merits will be generated. Breaking the Guru's instructions would mean broken samaya. This creates lots of demerits that will neutralise or negate all other virtuous actions done on the student's own initiative.
Following one's Guru's instructions is therefore top priority.
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Agreed with Klein.
The moment we taken refuge with a Guru, we had made sure he is the one who bring us to enlightenment and one surrender oneself completely to the Guru, if we couldn't think this way, we should not take refuge under the Guru.
Yes, as human beings, we do have doubts. Every times we have doubts, we should recall all the good qualities a Guru posses, these including the great compassion, wisdom, the loves and cares, etc. He has all these good qualities since long time ago, remain unchanged from life to life.
Therefore, we generate full faith towards our Guru. He is not doing things for us for his own preferences, but for us personally, to customize an enlighten path for us. This is how compassion a Buddha is, yes, a Guru is our Buddha.
So by following any instructions from the Guru, no matter what action it is, it generate merits.
I do not think a Guru will ask the student to do something that against their refuge vows, as Guru is the one that gave us the vows.
I saw a debate before on Guru Devotion asking question about, "If a Guru asks u to jump over a bridge, will you do that?" For me, the answer is definitely yes. The next question from the debater was "But you will loss your life?"
I wasn't in the debate, but personally I compare my life and my Guru's instructions, certainly Guru's instructions are more important as this Guru who I have full faith with, knows my life better than me, so he definitely have better decision towards my life instead of my own decision which arise from selfish reasons.
There's a very fantastic book on Guru Devotion is the 50 Stanzas of Guru Devotion by Ashvagosha, also known as Aryasura and others names. I think it answers all my questions in Guru Devotion. There's a verse saying:
"It has been taught that for the Guru to whom you have pledged your word of honor (to visualize as one with your meditational deity), you should willingly sacrifice your wife, children and even your life, although these are not (easy) to give away. Is there need to mention your fleeting wealth? "
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merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action
isn't following the instruction an action?
I think it should be as long as you follow the Guru's instruction, you will collect merit regardless of what the action relating to following the instruction is? E.g. you will collect merit from following the Guru's instruction to clean the toilet or build a 33 ft Buddha statue. Hence i agree with Poonlarp that by following any instructions from the Guru, no matter what action it is, it generate merits.
Agree with Klein on If the student follows his or her own thoughts on doing things without contradicting or neglecting the Guru's instructions and benefits others, merits will still be generated.
I guess if the student does something from his/her own initiative which is consistent with what the Guru has been teaching, this is also following the Guru's instructions. E.g. the Guru teaches his students in general to be kind to animals, and a student takes upon himself to leave food out for strays --> the student is following the Guru's instructions to be kind to animals and will thus collect merit, even though it is not a direct instruction specific to that particular student.
Why do we collect merit from following the Guru's instructions? I believe it is because the Guru will use every means to benefit as many sentient beings as possible. So by us carrying out the Guru's instructions, we are the "SPV" of the Guru to fulfil his Boddhisattva works, and along the way we develop virtuous qualities and skills required to benefit others purely. Like how a fire passes on from one candle to another candle...
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Thank you Kurava for this post.
I have a question:
Why do we create merit when we follow our Guru's instruction (regardless of the action)?
The same question asked differently:
Why is it that it is by following our Guru's instructions that we create merit?
What is the logic of that?
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The same question asked differently:
Why is it that it is by following our Guru's instructions that we create merit?
What is the logic of that?
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At our stage we do not have the attainments to see and hear the Buddhas. But we have the merits to see and hear the Guru.
In truth the Guru is the emanation of all Buddhas and so when we receive instructions from the Guru, it is equivalent to receiving instructions from the Buddhas.
And what could create more merits that directly carrying out the instructions of the Buddhas? I can only thinkm carrying out the instructions of the Guru well and to completion.
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merit is different from blessing. the above are blessing. blessing cant leads you to enlightenment. however, if blessing is given unconditionally and heartfelt kindness, it is merits. blessing can be in form or formless regardless of wealth.
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Why is it that it is by following our Guru's instructions that we create merit?
What is the logic of that?
And what could create more merits that directly carrying out the instructions of the Buddhas?
I can only think carrying out the instructions of the Guru well and to completion.
Why does it create merit when we follow the instructions of a Buddha?
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The reason why we have a Guru is that we have strong faith and trust in him and we rely on him to guide us in our spiritual path. Our Guru's purpose and motivation is to guide us towards Enlightenment. Thus we should surrender to him and trust him all the way as not following his instructions is breaking samaya with him. So how can we collect merits if we do not follow his instructions and have broken samaya?
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When Milarepa was asked by his guru Marpa to build and rebuild the nine-storey tower of "Shekhar Guthok", I'm sure he didn't know why but he carried out his guru's instructions. It was part of his preliminary training. If he had disobeyed his guru, he would not have achieved the supreme goal.
So, the bottom line is: whatever the action, carry it out. This way we will collect merits to support our practice. If the action or good deed is performed on our own initiative, there will be merits because it is a meritorious deed. But it is not the same as doing what the guru wants us to do.
Why is it important to follow instructions? Because the guru knows what we need in order to progress in our spiritual practice and will give instructions according to our needs. He knows we need to perform certain types of actions to remove obstacles, to purify our negative karma and to collect the merits necessary for our practice.
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Yes, the moment we accept and take refuge in our Guru, he becomes the Guide to lead us to Enlightenment and total liberation from suffering. As the Lamrim says, proper reliance on our Guru, that is, viewing him as a Buddha and following his instructions, is the foundation or root of the Path. He becomes the supreme merit field and, following his instructions, we will accumulate huge amounts of merit.
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A high Lama once taught - merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action.
What do you understand from this?
What is the difference between doing a good deed :
(1) on our own initiative , and
(2)on the Guru's instruction ?
Will we collect merits from (1)?
Please give reasons for "Yes" and "No".
Here's what I think :
Yes - we will collect merits from (1) BUT the merits collected (assuming (1) & (2) entails the SAME good deed) will NOT be as much as in (2)
Reason - in (1) good deed was done - hence merits collects, in (2) good deed was done AND Guru's instruction were followed - hence merits will be 'rewarded' for both !
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A high Lama once taught - merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action.
What do you understand from this?
What is the difference between doing a good deed :
(1) on our own initiative , and
(2)on the Guru's instruction ?
Will we collect merits from (1)?
Please give reasons for "Yes" and "No".
Doing good deed on our own initiative will generate good karma, in my opinion, whereas doing good deed on the Guru's instruction will generate merits.
I can explain like this, when a baby is born, a baby cannot kill, so the baby will only generate good karma as long as he does not kill. But when he grows up, he has the choice to kill or not to kill, so when he takes refuge vows (from his Guru) and hold it well and refrain from killing even at situation he can, he then generate "merits" from not killing.
Here, holding vows is exactly like following what your Guru tells you to do or not to do, it generate "merits"
To answer HopeRainbow's question, why do we generate "merits" by following Guru's instrutions?
If we view our Guru as the emanation of all buddhas, a guru's instruction is like the buddha's words, when we carry out instructions from our guru, it is like carrying instructions from the buddha whereby great merits fields is generated.
I am in line with the thought that merits are created by following an instruction from one's guru and not so much the results. Sometimes one's guru will give a very difficult task to his disciple so that during the course when the disciple follows the instruction, he gets lots of obstacles and sufferings, and in the process the disciple gets to purify certain negative karma there and then, sooner rather than later.
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I personally feel that any instruction from your Guru should be considered dharma work, and does earn you merits. If your Guru asks you to perform any action wether it relates to dharma or not, when the action is performed you will earn great merits, and the equivalent merit to normal dharma work, not from your Guru's instruction.
However if you do not do what your Guru instructs you to do, then you will break your samaya with your Guru, and this collect negative Karma.
The main point I am trying to make here is that if you receive and instruction from your Guru, no matter what it is, or how ridiculous is it, and even if it does not relate to the dharma, you will receive merits. So always follow your Guru's instruction. After all anything our Guru will tell us to do is to guide us towards enlightenment, so why wouldn't you follow your Guru's instruction?
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To answer HopeRainbow's question, why do we generate "merits" by following Guru's instrutions?
If we view our Guru as the emanation of all buddhas, a guru's instruction is like the buddha's words, when we carry out instructions from our guru, it is like carrying instructions from the buddha whereby great merits fields is generated.
If I may add, I say this:
By ourselves we are incapable to create merits, because in order for a karmic result to be merits it requires pure intentions that only Buddhas have achieved.
We do not have pure intentions, even if we do Dharma.
When we follow the instruction from our Guru, we can tap from the pure intentions behind the instructions and we can create merit.
We can imagine it like we have a field in which nothing much grows because it is polluted and we use someone else's field that is pure, a field that we have been offered to use until ours stops to be polluted.
This is why we call our Guru a merit's field.
This is why we call the Guru tree our merit's field.
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If you want to know more about karma and merit, you can read this post.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=988.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=988.0)
The dynamics of karma / merit.
The number ONE enemy in the studies and practices of a Buddhist is SELECTIVENESS.
Being selective with our Guru is the same as saying that we know better than our Guru.
this is why we follow some instructions and not others.
So it is not the following or not following that is the problem, is the train of thoughts that we entertain and that tells us: "I know better than my Guru".
How could we possibly create merit this way?
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Thank you for sharing. They are all valid points to be contemplated upon.
Since most of us have not developed the mind of renunciation, our actions are most definitely contaminated by the 'I'. In other words, even when we think we are doing good deeds for others our motivation will arise from the self grasping 'I'.
According to the Lamrim, a qualified Spiritual Guide is someone who has ' a deep and stable realization of emptiness'. All the actions of body, speech and mind of the Guru are meant purely and sincerely for the benefits of his students and others. Therefore following our Guru's instruction ensures the results of our actions will also be pure.
Thus good deeds done on our own initiative , at best, will produce good karma while good deeds done on Guru's instruction will generate merits.
Some may rebutt that our mind is not the Guru's mind, therefore by carrying out his instruction does not automatically make our action pure. However, at our present level, this is the best we can do.
The path of Guru devotion is the swiftest path of purification and merit collection as the Guru is the purest object we can perceive and rely on directly.
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To answer HopeRainbow's question, why do we generate "merits" by following Guru's instrutions?
If we view our Guru as the emanation of all buddhas, a guru's instruction is like the buddha's words, when we carry out instructions from our guru, it is like carrying instructions from the buddha whereby great merits fields is generated.
If I may add, I say this:
By ourselves we are incapable to create merits, because in order for a karmic result to be merits it requires pure intentions that only Buddhas have achieved.
We do not have pure intentions, even if we do Dharma.
When we follow the instruction from our Guru, we can tap from the pure intentions behind the instructions and we can create merit.
We can imagine it like we have a field in which nothing much grows because it is polluted and we use someone else's field that is pure, a field that we have been offered to use until ours stops to be polluted.
This is why we call our Guru a merit's field.
This is why we call the Guru tree our merit's field.
This is interesting as I did not see it as thus. Of course even if our intentions are there our motivation is not entirely pure because we still operate out of samsara... hence it would make sense to "tap" from a pure source... in this case our Guru. My question is, does it matter if one takes refuge from a Guru in order to tap into the Guru's merit field? Can one tap into the merit field even without taking refuge?
I would tend to think it does as Buddhas or the personification (in this case, our Guru represents the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha) of one clearly means the Guru is non discriminatory.
If one can generate the merits from tapping into the merit field of a Guru then can someone explain the importance of taking refuge?
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To answer HopeRainbow's question, why do we generate "merits" by following Guru's instrutions?
If we view our Guru as the emanation of all buddhas, a guru's instruction is like the buddha's words, when we carry out instructions from our guru, it is like carrying instructions from the buddha whereby great merits fields is generated.
If I may add, I say this:
By ourselves we are incapable to create merits, because in order for a karmic result to be merits it requires pure intentions that only Buddhas have achieved.
We do not have pure intentions, even if we do Dharma.
When we follow the instruction from our Guru, we can tap from the pure intentions behind the instructions and we can create merit.
We can imagine it like we have a field in which nothing much grows because it is polluted and we use someone else's field that is pure, a field that we have been offered to use until ours stops to be polluted.
This is why we call our Guru a merit's field.
This is why we call the Guru tree our merit's field.
HopeRainbow, what you said make lots of sense, we are indeed "tapping" along the merits fields of our Guru as most of the time we do not have pure intentions and motivations.
I once remember a friend who related this to me, he said would I help someone I dont know and give him say 100K dollars even he needs that money badly? My answer was most likely not. Then my friend asked me, would I offer 100K dollars to my Guru? I said yes I would. He then said my Guru may use my monatery offering to help that person in need of the100K and perhaps that person's life changes for the better after that.
So in this way, I am actually tapping along my Guru's pure intention and as a result, I am also collecting "merits" because of my monatery offering to my Guru, which in turn end up helping someone whom I dont know at all.
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By ourselves we are incapable to create merits, because in order for a karmic result to be merits it requires pure intentions that only Buddhas have achieved.
We do not have pure intentions, even if we do Dharma.
When we follow the instruction from our Guru, we can tap from the pure intentions behind the instructions and we can create merit.
We can imagine it like we have a field in which nothing much grows because it is polluted and we use someone else's field that is pure, a field that we have been offered to use until ours stops to be polluted.
This is why we call our Guru a merit's field.
This is why we call the Guru tree our merit's field.
This is interesting as I did not see it as thus. Of course even if our intentions are there our motivation is not entirely pure because we still operate out of samsara... hence it would make sense to "tap" from a pure source... in this case our Guru.
My question is, does it matter if one takes refuge from a Guru in order to tap into the Guru's merit field?
Can one tap into the merit field even without taking refuge?
I would tend to think it does as Buddhas or the personification (in this case, our Guru represents the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha) of one clearly means the Guru is non discriminatory.
If one can generate the merits from tapping into the merit field of a Guru then can someone explain the importance of taking refuge?
I will try to reply at the best of my ability.
There are a three questions in your post:
Does it matter if one takes refuge from a Guru in order to tap into the Guru's merit field?
Can one tap into the merit field even without taking refuge?
If one can generate the merits from tapping into the merit field of a Guru then can someone explain the importance of taking refuge?
We create merits when we act in the sphere of activity of a Buddha, assisting the Buddha in his activities.
(as explained above and in the linked topic referred above)
What are the Buddha's activities?
Whatever the activity is, it is always an action of bodhicitta. It always is.
How do we assist a Buddha in his activities?
If we do not have a Guru, it can be by reciting mantras, this is a simple way of creating merit.
It is even better to do it properly and build up the proper mindset by going through the preparatory rites and say a prayer that has the 7 limbs, even better if we understand what the 7 limbs are and how we must apply our mind to them and use them as antidotes.
How do we assist a Buddha in his activities?
If we do not have a Guru but we have taken refuge, then everyday we create merits by not breaking our refuge vows.
How do we assist a Buddha in his activities?
For those of us who have a Guru, it is following our Guru's instructions (and that includes keeping our refuge vows of course).
Thus, it is not the action "per se" that creates merit, it is the action of following our Guru's instructions.
Someone else that does exactly the same action, but not within the instruction from a Guru, creates karma, not merits. The karma can be negative or positive, depending upon many factors, mostly the intention for the action. But it is not merit.
If someone does the action, following the instruction from a Guru, yet has not established a Guru-disciple relationship with this Guru or/and has not taken Buddhist refuge, then does that person create merit?
Possibly yet, but that person will loose the merit at the first thought of anger.
When we create merit, and when we have been educated to recognize situations during which we have created merits, we should dedicate the merit, we should "give it away".
In fact, this is the only way to keep going on a spiritual path. No matter how much merit we create, it will dissipate when our mind entertains a polluted thought, so it is essential that we dedicate our merit and learn to do it sincerely and with conviction.
We dedicate our merits towards our enlightenment so that we can be of assistance to all sentient beings.
That is how we dedicate, the final object of the dedication is others.
We may also add that we dedicate like the Buddhas have done in the past, like the Buddhas are doing now and like the Buddhas will do in the future, and we dedicate like our Guru dedicates, just to ensure that our dedication itself is not polluted.
Why? Because we are incapable to keep the merit pure (we do not have pure thoughts), and at the first thought of anger, the merit we have dissipates or simply becomes some type of normal karma. Our thought has polluted the merit to extinction.
When we dedicate our merits to others, we "trick" the law of karma, we turn it around, we use the tools of the 4th Noble Truth to turn the wheel of karma in the opposite way, towards enlightenment.
If I want something, I must give it away, that is the law of karma.
And so we do that with merits, and at the same time we develop a mind looking towards bodhicitta : "what I do for me, I do it to serve others".
Does the Buddha need our help? No.
The Buddha is offering us opportunities to help because we need the merit to back up our journey to enlightenment.
We need help, not the Buddha, nor our Guru.
Some people create merits and simply don't know about it because they have not learned about merit, or karma or even buddhism. Do they still create merit?
Yes, if it is an instruction from a Buddha.
No, otherwise.
And they likely loose the merit if it is not dedicated.
But, if they have appreciated what they did and linked it with a Buddha, trough an image for example, or a sound, they create something like a connection in their mind. And the next time they come across that image of a Buddha, they will associate it in their mind with something positive, they will find it attractive, without exactly knowing why, and will get another opportunity to create merit. So there may be no direct merit remaining but there is a positive mental association with a Buddha that can act as a supportive factor to create merit again in the future.
Then if people cannot keep merit, it sounds almost like mission impossible?
No, because we have dedicated our merit, and in doing that action we get our merit back multiplied by our sincerity factor when we dedicated it. That is one aspect.
The second aspect is that other beings benefit from the merit we dedicated to them.
Dedicated merit can grow very big!
Does it matter if one has taken Buddhist refuge?
Yes it does. And I thought about this for a while... I think it is like this: how can we possibly dedicate our merit to enlightenment if we have not taken refuge (and I don't mean the actual ceremony, but refuge in our mind with or without ceremony).
Another aspect of refuge and merits: the Buddhist refuge comes with vows. When these vows are kept, merit is created. Thus, every day of my life that I have kept my refuge vows solidly, I create merit, and should dedicate. A Buddhist should dedicate every day for the merit created this way.
Yet, as a refuge comes with vows, there is also the possibility of breaking the refuge vows. When one has broken his vows, one must apply the 4 redeeming powers. When vows are broken, it is no merit it is de-merit.
What is de-merit?
-absence of having created merit
-destruction of previously acquired merit
Breaking our vows also results in a reinforced habit and familiarity of breaking our vows.
Now this is the 2nd Noble Truth spinning at "turbo" speed.
PA, did you find answers in my post?
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Thank you HR,
I do see the importance of taking refuge, as it creates conditions to create more merit, and of course we want and NEED more merit!
Why do we want/need more merit?
- because we want to create karmic conditions for us to continue further on our spiritual path.
Why do we want to continue further?
- because we want to attain the cessation of suffering.
Why do we want to attain such?
- because it is the only way we can start to really help the other suffering beings.
What can bring about such a state of mind?
- merits!
Merit can bring us again and again into conditions that are conducive for us to take refuge lifetime after lifetime for as long as it is needed for us to gain enlightenment.
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A high Lama once taught - merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action.
What do you understand from this?
What is the difference between doing a good deed :
(1) on our own initiative , and
(2)on the Guru's instruction ?
Will we collect merits from (1)?
Please give reasons for "Yes" and "No".
For some reason, this quote makes alot of sense to me... That merits come from our Guru's instruction, not the action itself. When our Guru gives us instructions, and we carry out the instructions perfectly.. it is without doubt that we gain merits from it.
I believe the reason why it is said 'not the action itself' is because sometimes the things we do are not entirely 'Dharmic' or at least we would view it that way. So, sometimes our Guru may give us weird instructions like 'buy a cupboard' or 'rearrange furnitures in the middle of the night'... though it may seem strange, but perhaps, the group of students there and then needed the merits generated from the Guru's instructions at that time... So the Guru compassionately give them a chance to collect these vast merit.
To answer the question if we collect merits through good deeds from our own initiative, I would say yes. The logic is that, or else all those that do not have a Guru (not everyone's fortunate to have one) will not be able to collect merits. However, if you want to compare 'how much merits...' That's I'm not sure... but I believe both option 1 and 2 is able to generate vast merits if either one is done with pure and good motivation.
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To answer the question if we collect merits through good deeds from our own initiative, I would say yes.
The logic is that, or else all those that do not have a Guru (not everyone's fortunate to have one) will not be able to collect merits.
Dear Q, thank you for your post.
May I add this, from my understanding of merit:
-we cannot create (collect) merits from our own initiative if we do not rely upon a Buddha.
-we can create merits from our own initiative if we rely upon a Buddha.
-the absence of a [reliance upon a] Guru does not mean that one cannot rely upon a Buddha.
-thus we can create merits without having a Guru.
How? Simple, we already create merits when we chant mantras. the action of saying mantras is done on the basis of a reliance upon a Buddha.
Anyone can recite mantras, with or without a Guru.
However, if I give food to the hungry moved by humanitarian compassion I create good karma, NOT merits.
And if I do the same action following the instruction from my Guru, I create good karma AND merits.
;D
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Thank you Hope Rainbow for your detailed explanation.
What I have learned:
1. Good Karma – generated from good action.
2. Merits
- Merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action itself' : what I understand is as long as we follow what’s the Guru’s instruction, even the instruction is not Dharmic, eg, wash the plate, but as long as we do it, we will collect merits.
- Merits is generated from actions only when we rely upon a Buddha/Guru, meaning we need to take refuge to them first.
- Merits can be bring forward from lifetime after lifetime and can help us to gain enlightenment.
- To gain enlightenment, we need both Wisdom and Merits. When we are enlightened, we would know the way & can help more people to be free from sufferings.
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Merits arises in following Guru's instruction as the guru is seen as a Buddda in Tibetan Buddhism.Without the teacher,it is asserted,there can be no experience or insight.In Tibetan text,great emphasis is placed upon praising the virtues of the guru.Blessed by the guru,whom the disciple regard as a Bodhisattva,the disciple shows great appreciation and devotion to the guru whose blessings is the last of the four foundations of
Vajrayana Buddhism.When we take refuge it create condition to gain more merits for our spiritual growth,thus
bu following the guru's instruction the disciple gain both merits and good karma.
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Vast collection merits arises when we rely fully on a Spiritual Guide who is the root of one's spiritual path and the foundation of all spiritual attainments. Hence,
Namo Guru Beh
Namo Buddha Yah
Namo Dharma Yah
Namo Sangha Yah
By fully following on Guru's instructions where he is one as the Buddha for we seek enlightenment and aspire to be one.
Our mind is a field;
Our Guru's instructions are the seeds that sow on this field;
Our faith in our Guru is the water that germinates the seeds.
Without all the above, spiritual understanding and attainments would not come easily nor we able to harvest the richness of it. By putting Guru's instructions into practice is considered the supreme offering one can offer and to please the Guru. Verses 46 to 48 on 50 Verses of Guru Devotion explained clearly on this. (http://viewonbuddhism.org/resources/50_verses_guru_devotion.html (http://viewonbuddhism.org/resources/50_verses_guru_devotion.html)) It is not the prostrations nor the many gifts offered to the Guru will help us to gain much realizations as compared to following Guru's instructions with pure and deep faith. Reliance on a Guru is a powerful way for us to accumulate merit, purify negative karma and to receive blessings which we needed very much.
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To answer the question if we collect merits through good deeds from our own initiative, I would say yes.
The logic is that, or else all those that do not have a Guru (not everyone's fortunate to have one) will not be able to collect merits.
Dear Q, thank you for your post.
May I add this, from my understanding of merit:
-we cannot create (collect) merits from our own initiative if we do not rely upon a Buddha.
-we can create merits from our own initiative if we rely upon a Buddha.
-the absence of a [reliance upon a] Guru does not mean that one cannot rely upon a Buddha.
-thus we can create merits without having a Guru.
How? Simple, we already create merits when we chant mantras. the action of saying mantras is done on the basis of a reliance upon a Buddha.
Anyone can recite mantras, with or without a Guru.
However, if I give food to the hungry moved by humanitarian compassion I create good karma, NOT merits.
And if I do the same action following the instruction from my Guru, I create good karma AND merits.
;D
Thank you Hope Rainbow for the explanation and the example given. In Tibetan Buddhism, Guru is everything for a student to collect merit from even if the action is very minimal or you are serving the Guru in his labrang. That also means we generate merits by doing our daily prayers given to us by our Guru or a normal daily prayer in this case Migtsema.
My question will be, if this is the same for other sects of Buddhism schools like the Taiwanese Mahayanas to the Buddhism in Thailand/Myanmar countries? What merits do they collect or are they just creating good karma for themselves unknowingly? Anyone would know of this?
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I believe, when we receive instructions from a Guru, there are definitely GOOD things that arise from it. And yes, merits do arise from us carrying out the instructions. I also believe that a Guru give instructions that will help us to attain or achieve something higher.
http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/english/Natsok/0014_Leksheyling_teaching/leksheyling_teachings_0009.htm (http://www.dharmadownload.net/pages/english/Natsok/0014_Leksheyling_teaching/leksheyling_teachings_0009.htm)
If one doesn’t have a teacher and cannot rely upon his instructions, one wouldn’t know how to attain Buddhahood. Some teachers are very good, some aren’t that good. But if one has devotion, then I think one can receive the blessings. If one doesn’t have devotion, nothing will happen. If one is near the Gyalwa Karmapa 24 hours a day but has no devotion, then it’s useless. On the other hand, it doesn’t matter where one’s Guru is if one has devotion – the blessing is there. Gampopa was an eminent disciple of Milarepa and I think he only stayed 3 or 4 months in all with him, but he received every instruction on how to meditate from his Guru. So, if you have received instructions from your teacher and practice, it doesn’t matter if he is near or far. The main thing is däd-pa, “devotion.” If one has devotion, then one will receive the blessings; if not, one won’t. Great Siddhas never practiced without a teacher. Disciples who do not have a spiritual master first need to find one and then check if he is the right one for them. It’s too late for practitioners who already have a spiritual master to check whether he is right or not. In the Kagyü Lineage it is said: “Kagyü-mös-pa'i-bka'-babs.” Kagyü is special through great devotion, i.e., in our Lineage, the master blesses students who have great devotion.
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A high Lama once taught - merits come from following a Guru's instruction, NOT the action.
What do you understand from this?
What is the difference between doing a good deed :
(1) on our own initiative , and
(2)on the Guru's instruction ?
Will we collect merits from (1)?
Please give reasons for "Yes" and "No".
Answer is YES to both (1) and (2).
(1) Doing a good deed in itself collect merits, what more (2) on the Guru's instruction - that goes without saying. Any instruction given by our Guru that is carried out will definitely allow us to collect merits.
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To answer the question if we collect merits through good deeds from our own initiative, I would say yes.
The logic is that, or else all those that do not have a Guru (not everyone's fortunate to have one) will not be able to collect merits.
Dear Q, thank you for your post.
May I add this, from my understanding of merit:
-we cannot create (collect) merits from our own initiative if we do not rely upon a Buddha.
-we can create merits from our own initiative if we rely upon a Buddha.
-the absence of a [reliance upon a] Guru does not mean that one cannot rely upon a Buddha.
-thus we can create merits without having a Guru.
How? Simple, we already create merits when we chant mantras. the action of saying mantras is done on the basis of a reliance upon a Buddha.
Anyone can recite mantras, with or without a Guru.
However, if I give food to the hungry moved by humanitarian compassion I create good karma, NOT merits.
And if I do the same action following the instruction from my Guru, I create good karma AND merits.
;D
So Hope Rainbow... by this logic/truth, am I to assume that non Buddhist cannot create merits even though the actions were virtuous? And they only create good karma?
If this is true, am I also right to assume that enlightenment can only be achieved through Buddhist practice. Am not trying to imply that Buddhism is the ONLY path to "salvation" but given the circumstances, it seems to point in that direction.
If that is so, being in this opportune condition (human life) and to be able to practice the Dharma is remarkably "rare". And for those of us still doubting or unsure, the stark truth is right in front of us. We should really cherish what we have NOW.
Only the Buddhas know when this opportunity will ever arise if it will at all... scary thought yes but thought provoking and very logical.
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For this, I have been thinking about this for a long time and I have finally came to somewhat of a conclusion. If we have Guru devotion, and we instil it in ourselves if we dont have, it makes our minds less resistant to receiving and practicing Dharma. If we're resistant to Dharma concepts that challenge us and force us to step out of our comfort zones, then how will we actually progress in the path? Having Guru devotion trains us to be able to challenge ourselves and our own laziness, doubts, sneakiness, fears and stubbornness that we will not be able to develop if we just read Dharma books and listen to audio Dharma teachings alone, or have a Lama that lives so far away that he is unable to observe and interact with us directly or gives us personal advice or peel us off our delusions...
If we are too stubborn to rely on a Guru, we are probably too stubborn to be able to get rid of our delusions and comfort zones as well. And that in any case is not a good thing by any standards. In short, without Guru devotion, nobody would be able to progress on the path as it is only a teacher that can help us identify and peel off our delusions and prevent us from falling into the trap where we think we are progressing on the path when there is none. Guru devotion is the key for practicing Dharma as if you can listen to the Guru's instructions without misinterpretations, excuses, ands, ifs and buts, we can do that to the Buddha's instructions too. And when we do that, we gain attainments and progress.
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Also, the Fifty Verses of Guru Devotion says, “If you cannot do what your guru suggests, you can
request permission not to do it by explaining why you can’t.” 1 Humbly, without arrogance,
without thinking, “Oh, my guru doesn’t know this, he doesn’t know that,” by looking with
devotion at your guru as Buddha, humbly explain how you are incapable of doing what he asks.
As skillfully as you can, try to get permission from your guru not to do what he has asked you to
do.
His Holiness the Dalai Lama has said, “Special disciples and special gurus, like Milarepa and
Marpa or Naropa and Tilopa, are different. In such cases, every single word that the guru says to
the disciple, even if it involves killing, stealing and so forth, has to be followed exactly.”
My question is, so when you follow your Guru's instruction and killed someone, so do you collect merits from the killing then? :P
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What about Dorje Shugden practitioners that have Lamas on both side of the camp? What should they do? One Lama is the Dalai Lama who asks to renounce and give up Dorje Shugden and another Lamas is a simple Geshe who has given you the practice Dorje Shugden from the bottom of his heart.
So who do you follow in this matter? Does the answer to that question means that we have to pit one Lama against another? Does the status of the Lama even mean anything? Is the Dalai Lama, who is an emanation of Chenrezig more important than the simple Geshe in the practice of Guru devotion?
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I read a good story about following Guru's instructions, and this story illustrates how faith in Guru helps us avoid bad results if only we have faith and to know that our Guru only has the best for us in mind as well as caring for other sentient beings at the same time.
Guru: The True Protector
It is an old story, but the truth contained in it is ever relevant. A Guru and his disciple were extremely tired due to continuous walking. Seeing a proper place, the master stopped for taking rest. When the disciple was fast asleep, the master was awake. Suddenly a black serpent came hissing and moving towards the disciple. Moving aside, the master tried to divert it, but the serpent had come very close to the sleeping disciple. When the master tried to stop it, the serpent spoke in human tongue, "Oh! Great Sage, I have to bite this disciple of yours; so do not stop me."
"After all you must have some reason to bite him," the master asked.
The serpent put forth the reason. "In the previous birth he had drunk my blood; now I have to drink his. In the previous birth he had tortured me a lot. It is in order to take revenge that I have taken birth as a serpent. So you please don’t stop me. If you now stop me, I will come at some other time in your absence and do my job".
The serpent continued - "In the previous birth, I was a sheep. In order to satisfy his selfishness, he mercilessly slaughtered me with a sword and drank my blood. In front of his eyes I fluttered in agony and died."
"Is the ire of previous birth is still there?" The master asked, as if immersed in deep contemplation. The sage thus explained to the irate serpent bent upon taking revenge, the eternal secret of spiritual wisdom. "Dear One! Our own soul is our enemy and no one else. If you bite him, hatred towards you will be generated in his heart. After leaving this body, he will take a new one and take revenge. You will again die bearing hatred and after death take revenge in the next birth. Then it will be his turn. In this way the chain of hatred will go on forever. And what will be the gain?"
"Oh! Great Master, what you say is true, but I am not as spiritually enlightened as you are. Please excuse me, I will not leave him without taking revenge," the serpent said.
When, even after repeated persuasions and pleadings, the serpent did not give up his resolve for revenge, the sage said, “Would your blind urge for revenge be satisfied, if I take out his blood and give it for you to drink?"
The serpent agreed to the sage’s suggestion.
The wise sage then sat on the disciple’s chest and holding a cup made of leaves he made a slit in his throat with a knife. Collecting the blood in the cup, he began to feed it to the serpent. No sooner did the knife touch his throat, the disciple woke up, but seeing his master he remained calm and assured. Sitting on the chest, the master was taking out blood from the throat and feeding the serpent. Seeing all this he immediately closed his eyes and lay calm. When the serpent drank the blood to its satisfaction, it went off. Like a surgeon, the master closed the slit and after applying herbal medical paste, bandaged it. When he got off the disciple’s chest, the latter sat up.
Scoldingly, the master asked him, "How deep is your sleep?"
"Yes master, under your protection, I was calmly seeing everything. You were sitting on my chest. You had a cup of leaves in your hand. Making a slit in the throat, you were taking out blood. As soon as the knife touched the throat I became awake", the disciple said humbly.
"Yes, my son! Why didn’t you speak then?" Asked the master.
The disciple said "I have unshakable faith in you. I have surrendered myself completely body, mind, and soul at your feet. On hearing the serpent’s talk, seeing its deed and listening to your advice to renounce the feeling of hatred my blind urge for revenge, too, was calmed down like that of the serpent. I am blessed."
He continued "No other harm can touch me as I have taken refuge under your protection. You are not only my spiritual guide, but also the protector of my body. Everything of mine is yours body as well as life. You can use them, as you deem proper. How can I, a mere novice, understand your supreme wisdom? I have fully surrendered myself to you. I have no worry about my well-being and safety."
Hearing these words of the disciple, blessings poured out from deep within the master’s heart.
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Thank you Kurava for this post.
I have a question:
Why do we create merit when we follow our Guru's instruction (regardless of the action)?
The same question asked differently:
Why is it that it is by following our Guru's instructions that we create merit?
What is the logic of that?
The guru knows what is best for the student to do which is necessary to detach oneself. If the student is usually not comfortable with doing something even if it was something mundane and simple, the student will create merits when it's executed and most importantly executed well and with joy.
For example, if the guru instructed a student to sweep the floor to cultivate humility in the student who looked at cleaning something low for what he/she is actually capable of, then the attainments will come if the student accepts it and does it well. There are many sort of instructions the guru will give which may appear so mundane but the reason behind it will help the students push their boundaries, get out of their fears, lessen their pride or laziness.
When a student follows instructions will, it's easier to initiate the student into higher tantric practice. That is the ultimate attainments.
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Namo Guru Beh!!! is how we Gelugpas start our prayers. How are we going to collect merit by this proclamation?
Very good comments are here on this post. It will be good to know how we can gain merits in following what we proclaim.