dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Big Uncle on December 27, 2011, 10:56:42 AM
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Kundeling Rinpoche took the Dalai Lama to court regarding the Dorje Shugden ban and in a video interview spoke about the ban. I found his interpretation of the ban quite witty and almost humorous impression of the stark reality that is happening within India.
"So, there is no democracy. The man, Dalai Lama talks about democracy. Talks about compassion. Talks about dialogue. Talks about understanding. Talks about a solution. But for us, there is no solution. There's no dialogue. There's no understanding. There's no compassion because in his perception, we are not human beings. We are evil. We are just evil and we are agents of the Chinese. That's what it is."
2:57 - 3:30 of this video - Dalai Lama Taken to Court for Religious Discrimination (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VClQpd4QXHc#)
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What I find interesting is when Kundeling Rinpoche says this, I cant detect malice in his voice at all. Its just basically a way to say look, if your going to do something illegal then Ill use legal means to ask you to stop speaking. As embarrassingly public as it makes the split in Tibetan Buddhism, it seems to me a perfectly reasonable way of asking His Holiness to stop suppressing Dorje Shugden. After all, when in Rome do as the Romans do eh? The Tibetan government and His Holiness should abide by Indian law which protects democracy.
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Yes, Kundeling Rinpoche does not harbor any ill will towards the Dalai Lama. He sounds funny and very witty. He must be very intelligent and a great teacher. It is so sad that a great teacher like him is reduced towards spending his time and effort with lawyers and legal cases. According to this video, he is taking the Dalai Lama to court. I am wondering if there's any outcome towards this legal action. Does anybody know what's happening? I am wondering if the legal action was ever taken...
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"So, there is no democracy. The man, Dalai Lama talks about democracy. Talks about compassion. Talks about dialogue. Talks about understanding. Talks about a solution. But for us, there is no solution. There's no dialogue. There's no understanding. There's no compassion because in his perception, we are not human beings. We are evil. We are just evil and we are agents of the Chinese. That's what it is."
It is so true. Dalai Lama talks about democracy, compassion, etc, yet when this issue arises, there is no understanding, democracy nor compassion.
When Kundeling Rinpoche talked about the issue, he is not evil or anything. Also, I have been to India and visited a few monks who practices Dorje Shugden, they are not evil, and in their altar, I can see that they have photos of Dalai Lama clearly displayed. When asked about this issue, they still show a lot of respect to Dalai Lama, and when discussed further, a few of them shed tears and was very puzzled as to why Dalai Lama has treated them this way. There is no way they are terrorists!
On the other hand, I would really like to see Dalai Lama go to court :P and may be that will help spread Dorje Shugden even wider!!
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This is what happened exactly, the world can openly talked about how evil Shugden is but Shugden practitioners can not talk about it. What happens to religious freedom? The ban which caused Sangha and Buddhists community splitting, and Shugden practitioners have to go into hiding! And yet the non Shugden practitioner can openly talk about it. It really gets on my nerves whenever I thought of old monks who suffered without even knowing why... knowing why were they not allow to see their family, some got kicked out the monastery, and perhaps die not knowing... But of course it is for a bigger picture, so i really pray that the ban will be lifted soon so that the old monks will get to see the day.
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Kundeling rinpoche using modern and legal method to protest without physically hurt anyone. This is shown he can't take it anymore seeing those DS practitioners friends and family suffered. Especially tibetan already very sad, force themselves to accept the fact tibet belongs to china. Now their closed protector DS been banned and practitioner became terrorist.
He successfully made international tv channel report this case so even non buddhist also curious who or what is shugden. Like those artist using media to become famous, but after well known who still care or remember what you have done right or wrong?
In this case, result and good motivation is more important !
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Looking at the various matters related to Dorje Shugden and the ban, it becomes clearer and clearer how there is really no logic behind the whole drama.
The Dalai Lama is a highly attained and enlightened master. HH has brought Dharma to the world that has, consequently, benefited so many people. Thus, it is unlikely that such a principal figure of Buddhadharma would contradict and jeopardize:
1) His own role as a sound Dharma practitioner and leader,
2) The principals of Dharma by which He lives and
3) His own hard work over the last decades.
Not only is it illogical that HH would do such a thing, it is outright stupid that HH would leave so much evidence lying around to be caught red handed. Therefore, all these “scenes” are manifested for a bigger and beneficial purpose.
The growing attention the practice of Dorje Shugden as a direct result of the ban is the broad outcome of this “show”. I am grateful for those who have sacrificed themselves to materialize this entire event so that we get the opportunity to know of and even practice Lord Dorje Shugden. I pray that the suffering they had to go through to benefit us will soon end and they will be able to proudly and openly practice within their current lifetime.
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There's no compassion because in his perception, we are not human beings. We are evil. We are just evil and we are agents of the Chinese. That's what it is."
Oh my! That's hilarious! But you know, there's a lot of truth in what he's saying, ironic as it may sound. Unfortunately, that IS how Shugden practitioners are often viewed. Sad really - if they are so bad and such evil people, then wouldn't it behove us as Buddhists to treat them with even more kindness? We pray and send Bodhicitta to spirits and demons - so how can we mistreat our own human beings and still call ourselves Buddhists?
Also, hey, in the first place, it ain't that easy to be an agent of the Chinese!
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I personally got to know Dorje Shugden practice when looking for the Dalai Lama videos. At first I just refuse to watch anything negative being said about the Dalai Lama. It was so strange and awful to hear Tibetan monks talking negatively about him. But slowly I began to look at websites like this one and got a broader outlook of the picture. Many monks and their family are suffering. Can't even buy groceries. Families divided on this issues. What is happening? Who is wrong? Is HHDL wrong? Or is Kyabe Trijang Rinpoche wrong?
Now we see a Rinpoche taking HHDL to court. Crazy stuff. Kundeling Rinpoche refers to HHDL as 'this man'. Showing lack of respect. I guest you wouldn't respect someone you are suing.
Next thing you know, we may hear that HHDL himself is a Chinese spy....!!?? That would be really interesting.
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I was just going through the old threads and came across this one. Cracked me up, it did what Kundeling Rinpoche says. Hahaha if Id a penny for every time some troll on Phayul levelled this accusation against me, Id be able to pay for another of Kundeling Rinpoches court cases!
yontenjamyang I thought about that too but personally I think Kundeling Rinpoches just giving his own back to the ban, not to the Dalai Lama. I think he respects him but he doesnt respect the ban. Let me put it this way - Kundeling Rinpoche had a choice of taking class action against the CTA, and taking class action against the Dalai Lama.
Whyd he sue the Dalai Lama? Why didnt he sue the CTA? Yes the Dalai Lama spoke about a ban, but it was the CTA who perpetrated the ban. But then suing the CTA brings less publicity, whilst suing the Dalai Lama (ZOMG!!1!!11! Suing THE DALAI LAMA.) brings a lot of publicity...and thus it gives Kundeling Rinpoche a free and easy method of promoting Dorje Shugdens name aaaaaaall over the place.
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What I find interesting is when Kundeling Rinpoche says this, I cant detect malice in his voice at all. Its just basically a way to say look, if your going to do something illegal then Ill use legal means to ask you to stop speaking. As embarrassingly public as it makes the split in Tibetan Buddhism, it seems to me a perfectly reasonable way of asking His Holiness to stop suppressing Dorje Shugden. After all, when in Rome do as the Romans do eh? The Tibetan government and His Holiness should abide by Indian law which protects democracy.
I LOVE KUNDELING RINPOCHE!
It seems like Rinpoche is such a bubbly person yet full of depth in every single way. What Kundeling Rinpoche is doing and taking this to the media is really awesome. It must have been a waking up call for those in the CTA
We need to viral this on the net
Harry <3 Kundeling Rinpoche!
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There's no compassion because in his perception, we are not human beings. We are evil. We are just evil and we are agents of the Chinese. That's what it is."
Oh my! That's hilarious! But you know, there's a lot of truth in what he's saying, ironic as it may sound. Unfortunately, that IS how Shugden practitioners are often viewed. Sad really - if they are so bad and such evil people, then wouldn't it behove us as Buddhists to treat them with even more kindness? We pray and send Bodhicitta to spirits and demons - so how can we mistreat our own human beings and still call ourselves Buddhists?
Also, hey, in the first place, it ain't that easy to be an agent of the Chinese!
Yes it is truly funny to watch Kundeling Rinpoche say all those words in the interview. And he is just stating the facts as he sees it and very logical. There were no solution or even a discussion of coming up with a solution for the ban or DS practitioners. Just push it down our throats and we deal with it ourselves. How compassionate is that?
I really would like to hear about the outcome of the case.
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Watching the video made me feel very lucky to be able to practice in accordance with my own faith without fear of discrimination. Being the agent of Chinese or the Tibetan government is just a label. I would like very much serve as the agent of Dharma. It does not matter if the Dharma is with the Chinese or the Tibetans
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Kundeling Rinpoche made a very strong point with the video. There is no doubt that logically, what he said about the whole scenario is true, mainly because the Dalai Lama has been keeping quiet over this and also that CTA has been keeping quiet as well. There is no Democracy because in Dharamsala, you are either for the Dalai Lama or against the Dalai Lama and if you're against the Dalai Lama, you'll be getting death threats.
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It is such an absurd statement that they have made based on their own assumptions. Just because we practise Dorje Shugden, it definitely doesn't mean that we work for the Chinese Gov. We have religious freedom and this is one of the most simplest basic rights of a human. So I don't see why is it that we must be working for the Chinese Gov when we practise Dorje Shugden. It doesn't make sense at all. Not to me at least.
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Apparently the High Court of Delhi dismissed this writ petition and application on the grounds that the allegations of violence and harassment were vague as there was no specific instances of such attack on Dorje Shugden practiotioners. The judge also concluded that matters of religion and the differences among groups concerning propitiation of religion cannot be adjudicated by the courts.
Well that was then (2010) but does this qualify now? http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/cta-creates-violence-again/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/cta-creates-violence-again/)
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Thank you, Rihana, for the update on this subject. Although the Indian courts may not be able to judge such a sensitive issue, it definitely cannot also judge that Shugdenpas are evil and agents of the Chinese.
It is quite amazing that CTA has accused Shugdenpas to be agents of the Chinese since 2011 until now, they have no evidence to prove such.
Does this implies what a bully the CTA can be???? May all Shugdenpas hold onto their faith in Dorje Shugden and have the Ban be lifted.