dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: WisdomBeing on September 25, 2011, 04:04:19 PM
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Dear all Dorje Shugden practitioners,
With all the bad press that Dorje Shugden has received... can anyone highlight any negative effects Dorje Shugden practice has had on its practitioners?
When i've asked DS critics, usually the murders which are mentioned in http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9065 are brought up.. but as can be seen at the link, all the allegations are definitely not beyond reasonable doubt. Anyway i am sure that more Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists aside from DS practitioners have committed crimes over the past few decades but no one is saying that they are practising an evil cult? I read somewhere a good point that just because the Al Queda have committed terrorism in the name of Islam, it doesn't mean that all Muslims are bad.
The high lamas who practised Shugden are reincarnating back, the monasteries are thriving.. the Dalai Lama's life is not shortened... Tibet is not seeking independence (so DS practice will not affect independence) so what is the issue?
I don't get it.
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http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=578.0
I read again about Choyang Dulzin Kuten and his life seems to be for others benefit. My lama told me if the deity going in was negative it will harm the person being possessed if the being was positive it will heal the person being occupied by the deity. I have seen a couple of pictures of the Dorje Shugden oracle they look really charismatic and vibrant full of vitality.
So Dorje Shugden is not having any adverse effects on its practitioners. Just read Trijang RInpoche's bio it is all there.
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Negative effects? None that I have personally experienced. Perhaps, the only thing negative from Dorje Shugden practice would be the discrimination, rumors and bad talk that I have experienced from other Tibetan Buddhist practitioners. Once people know I am Tibetan Buddhist, many will ask if I practice 'THE' Protector, insinuating he is evil and powerful. To avoid all that, I have to be careful of who I talk to about Dorje Shugden. It is very sad that I have to hide Dorje Shugden like that as he should be promoted and spread widely as he is extremely beneficial and efficacious. It is also very tiring and a big hassle to keep up the pretense. So I hope the ban is quickly dissolved.
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Same with Big Uncle. I have not experienced any negative effects from DS practice. In fact, on hind sight, from the time I came in contact with DS my life have changed drastically especially in the spiritual aspect. If not for DS, I would have chosen a completely different path. Of course, the process of it may not have been exactly what I had in mind but I guess that is just DS's way of giving me what I need instead of what I want which could have been completely detrimental to myself now that I think about it. In short, I must say that the situation DS has "arranged" for me to be in has had positive effects for me in my personal and spiritual development.
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yeah, agreed with everyone here. I personally think the only negative impact is the put down, negative comments that DS practitioners have to endure. And it is not even relevant because as a student, we follow our guru, whatever they passed down to the disciples, with guru devotion and vows. We must commit. How can we go against it with something that has been practiced for thousand of years?
And this is definitely not about Dorje Shugden or not. It is pure guru devotions. If we can switch back and forth of our practice, then i believe there is more negative effects. It can be seen as negative for now, but i am sure, it will be positive in the end.
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the Dalai Lama's life is not shortened... Tibet is not seeking independence (so DS practice will not affect independence) so what is the issue?
Agreed with everyone above, I have never experience any negative effects from practicing Dorje Shugden, and I don't think by practicing Manjushri will ever experience any negative effect. Remember HHDL make an official announcement not long ago saying that HH will only decide his reincarnation when HH is around 90 yrs old, is that consider short life ? I'm not cursing HHDL, but it's just doesn't make sense.
Beside the problem created by ex TGIE or CTA for now, I do not see NKT, Shar Gaden or Serpom having any problem with their monastery, sponsors or any tragic happen to them. If by practicing Dorje Shugden will bring negative effects, how to explain the 1100 Kadampa Centers and branches in 40 countries around the world, which benefit thousand of thousand people ?
Regarding Tibet independents, I'm really don't care. First of all I'm not Tibetan, secondly I'm not interested in politic at all.
My conclusion is all the negative effect that CTA warn us, look quite positive to me, and i will continue DS practice.
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How can this great practice would have negative effects to the practitioners?
I totally agreed with whitelion.
So many big centers practicing Dorje Shugden and their center keep on growing. So many high Lama that practice take their rebirth to came back and continue to spread the great teaching and practice.
There is no significant negative effects that I can see from the Dorje Shugden practitioners instead they are more and more positive effects where we can see the practice spread across to so many countries. How great!
The only negative effect that I would say is the people who created the disharmony.
But the practice have made us more tolerant and created much more wisdom instead of looking at the ban it make more practitioners to work for the growth!
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WELL DO YOU MEAN THE GREAT EFFECTS OF THE PRACTISE OF DS?ONLY BENEFIT ONLY BENEFIT!FROM HIGHEST WISDOM BUDDHA GREATEST BENEFITS.THANK YOU-PAOLO ::)
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So many great Masters has practiced Dorje Shugden but are still fine and reincarnated to be even better supreme masters. If there are any negative effects by practicing Dorje Shugden, shouldn't we all be going to hell already?
In fact, I have to thank Dorje Shugden for giving me assistance over and over again for my spiritual journey to be smooth.
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No negative effects here. Well only one... the whole things led me to have a mistrust of one particular government >:( but then I guess thats all in my mind and whether or not it affects me, is up to me.
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No negative effects here. Well only one... the whole things led me to have a mistrust of one particular government >:( but then I guess thats all in my mind and whether or not it affects me, is up to me.
They could be all part of the bigger picture like Samdhong Rinpoche!! I highly doubt it though, but here's to hoping the Dalai Lama gave a massive talk and told all of them to go all the way with him - left, right, north, south, anti-DS and (hopefully ) back again! HEH :P
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I have not experienced any negative effects while practising Dorje Shugden, only positive ones. During situations when i have problems paying bills, somehow I'll get money to pay the month's bills. It happens all the time.
My friend was asked to recite 10 million mantras of Dorje Shugden by her Guru to overcome her husband's huge financial obstacle. She told me that when she was near to completion, her husband's business recovered and is currently doing well.
Another friend of mine had pretty bad spirit disturbances. After doing Dorje Shugden's practice, the disturbances became less. It's been 2 years and he no longer has any spirit disturbances.
There are so many accounts that I can think of that are positive. I've not heard of any negative ones.
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I could be wrong, but looking back, it wasn't any lay people who made claims of getting negative effects from practicing Dorje Shugden.
Dorje Shugden was practiced by many high lamas. But when one high lama (HHDL) made his claims, then lay and many monastics stopped practicing. Many high lamas practice. Why not follow them?
I certainly have not had negative effects from practicing and it is because of Dorje Shugden that i felt my dharma practice is stabilizing, my mind more at peace.
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There are only benefits for me to practise Dorje Shugden. How can there be negative effects if we practice Dorje Shugden? I have not come across any negative effect from practising Dorje Shugden. If there is any negative effect at all, Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche and all the lineage masters will definitely not practise Dorje Shugden.
Our guru is very kind to us by giving us Dorje Shugden practice. How can our guru be wrong? How can our Guru’s guru and their gurus all the way back to Trijang Rinpoche, Pabongka Rinpoche, Tsongkhapa and Shakyamuni be wrong?
His Holiness Dalai Lama (HHDL) said practising Dorje Shugden is wrong. Failing to see the bigger picture, many Dorje Shugden practitioners and Tibetan Buddhist organizations have ignorantly stopped practising Dorje Shugden because HHDL said not to practise it. As a result these practitioners have broken their samayas and commitments to their Gurus.
HHDL said that if you practise DS, then don’t go to his teachings or attend His initiations. HHDL seems to imply that practitioners have a choice. Only the CTA or some minority Buddhist organizations had stopped practising or banned others from practising. Yes practitioners of Dorje Shugden have complete liberty to decide whether to practise Dorje Shugden or otherwise. It is not because HHDL said stop practising or CTA or certain organizations are preventing you from practising. The ban is there but why stops practising if Dorje Shugden practice is beneficial to you?
For those who is anti-Shugden:
- Why stop others from practising Dorje Shugden when you don’t practise? Everyone has religious freedom to practise what they believe.
- Where is your compassionate mind that cares for the welfare of others if you practise Tibetan Buddhism?
- Do you not rely on Trijang Rinpoche and Pabongka Rinpoche who practised Dorje Shugden?
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How can a Buddha, Manjushri gives negative effects. I experienced before like what Big Uncle mentioned, friends from oversea know that i am a Tibetan Buddhist, they asked "If I Practice DS?"..some even advise better abandon the practice. Anyway, I just ignored them......
By practicing DS, gives me many positive effects, protector always create positive conditions in my money matters & dharma works.
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Just read the article on http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9065 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9065) , and I feel that it is quite unfair to put a negative link to the entire Shugden Association.
Anyone knows how the murderers were identified as murderers in the first place? I'm interested to know. Anyways, I agree with WisdomBeing said that "...just because the Al Queda have committed terrorism in the name of Islam, it doesn't mean that all Muslims are bad."
It is not fair to generalise an entire society/belive from one or 2 people's actions.. i've read many stories about Buddhist mediums cheating others, and Christian pastors sexually abusing the vulnerable, but that doesn't account for all Buddhists mediums or Christian pastors. How can you generalise based on the actions of a few people? Then the entire population of mankind itself would be bad because everyday there are people getting killed/harmed/hurt, no? Definitely there are people of both extremes in a single society.. no doubt, but it cannot be applied across all, because everyone is different.
Well, regarding the negative effects on DS practitioners, I've only heard, seen and experienced the benefits of it. People have been financially assisted after relying on DS practices, people have been saved from harm. For me, I've experienced much more clarity of the mind since I've relied on DS. I feel that DS is always there to help us to the best of his ability and the situation, when we rely upon Him.
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I have been practising DS for a couple of months now, I do not encounter any negative effect. I think DS protects whoever propitiate him sincerely. This is my own experience. I went to this dinner last week, was supposed to sit next to a big standing speaker. Then I was told that my seat was at another table that was further away. Of course I moved myself to the other table. Not long after that, the standing speaker next to where I was supposed to sit fell and hit a girl who was sitting there. I was lucky to have escaped from the accident, immediately I thought of DS. It must be him that I avoided the accident.
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From my experience, as a Dorje Shugden practitioner, I have not encountered any negative effects but received many many benefits instead.
Dorje Shugden is an enlightened being, there is no way we can have negative effects, and he will be like our guardian angel helping and guiding us on our spiritual journey!
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I have experienced a lot of healing whilst chanting the mantra. And when I was at a temple with Dorje Shugden I can stay there for hours and hours and feel energetic about it as well. My girlfriend also experienced healing chanting the mantra or having me blow after chanting the Dorje Shugden mantra.
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The only negative experience i have with Shugden is that my samsaric desires become harder to fulfill. haha. And i do see me getting less and less interested in secular work and craving more and more to assist my lama with his works. To this point i have basically lost all interest in secular work and would like to do Dharma fulltime. It's positive but some people may see this as negative hahahahahaha
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Dorje Shugden and Manjsuhri are one, the blessings from DS for practitioners sometimes can only be felt at a greater length of time, depending on our karmic depositions. If we believe in karma, then sometimes when bad things happen when we are practicing, it is considered extremely good as our negativities are purified now rather than later. Buddhas certainly do not want us to have our negative karma piled and compounded up and become a tsunami at a later part in our life or in one of our future lives.
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The only negative experience i have with Shugden is that my samsaric desires become harder to fulfill. haha. And i do see me getting less and less interested in secular work and craving more and more to assist my lama with his works. To this point i have basically lost all interest in secular work and would like to do Dharma fulltime. It's positive but some people may see this as negative hahahahahaha
Really? I get the total opposite effect from Dorje Shugden. I noticed that my properties and finances are getting better and better. It gives me faith in the Protector and allows me the opportunity to use my finances for the Dharma and helping others. I believe the Protector has given me the finances so I can use it for others. If your Samsaric desires are withheld by Dorje Shugden, it only means only one thing, your Samsaric wishes will pull you away from the Dharma or that you will commit a lot of negative karma or you simply don't have the karma for it. As for your wish to do more Dharma work. Congratulations, that's the blessing of Dorje Shugden's wisdom for you.
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So many great Masters has practiced Dorje Shugden but are still fine and reincarnated to be even better supreme masters. If there are any negative effects by practicing Dorje Shugden, shouldn't we all be going to hell already?
This is a very good point!
Well, for myself, I have not experienced any negative effects since practicing Dorje Shugden. No bad things, nothing...
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Same with Big Uncle. I have not experienced any negative effects from DS practice. In fact, on hind sight, from the time I came in contact with DS my life have changed drastically especially in the spiritual aspect. If not for DS, I would have chosen a completely different path. Of course, the process of it may not have been exactly what I had in mind but I guess that is just DS's way of giving me what I need instead of what I want which could have been completely detrimental to myself now that I think about it. In short, I must say that the situation DS has "arranged" for me to be in has had positive effects for me in my personal and spiritual development.
WT, what you have said here is true for me as well. When I first came to practice Dorje Shugden, I was not in a good place, I was caught in the pains and sufferings of failed relationships. I was tired of blaming and wanted to find a real solution i.e. a solution which is from my mind and inner strength. When I first started my practice, I must admit that things did not go as I had expected, and at some point the pains got worse like mental anguish. I even thought that it was "more difficult". But then by reading many people's experiences and understanding the purification process, I decided to stick it through. It took a while, close to two years, and today I am good and my mind is strong. I have accepted and taken my responsibility and moved on.
To the ignorant minds, this process of purification where things do not match our expectations of a quick fix, could be perceived as "negative effects" - this would be wrong view and ignorance. Life is never simple, so how can we expect such goodness and strength to come without any difficulties and challenges. At the end of it, the result of practising Dorje Shugden is strength and long term. We develop wisdom and compassion - I have.
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For me, the negative effects meaning sufferings in short or long term.
As my personal experience in practicing Dorje Shugden, I didnt see any negative effects at all.
But the ban itself brings so many negative effects to high lamas, monks, and practitioners. So many monks suffer because of the ban.
I really hope the ban will be lifted one day soon to stop all these negative effects and sufferings in people.
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I have not experienced any negative effects. I have only positive results, I feel my mind and emotion is more stable. Once I was attending a dinner, for some reason I was asked to sit at another table. Not long after I shifted to the other table, there was a small accident happened at where I was sitting!
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Really? I get the total opposite effect from Dorje Shugden. I noticed that my properties and finances are getting better and better. It gives me faith in the Protector and allows me the opportunity to use my finances for the Dharma and helping others. I believe the Protector has given me the finances so I can use it for others. If your Samsaric desires are withheld by Dorje Shugden, it only means only one thing, your Samsaric wishes will pull you away from the Dharma or that you will commit a lot of negative karma or you simply don't have the karma for it. As for your wish to do more Dharma work. Congratulations, that's the blessing of Dorje Shugden's wisdom for you.
Haha when i said samsaric pursuits i meant having samsaric friends to hang out with and the game of finding a partner which i find entertaining and also ive reached the point in life where all my friends have partners but not me. I lost interest in those pursuits although they were highly entertaining i must admit. Career wise, i got mysterious raises in salary and somehow conditions were such that i could leave early from work to do more volunteer work at my Buddhist center. I wish i can do more Dharma work as my current career does not lead to anywhere long term or short term, just as my Lama has predicted. That is how i know Dorje Shugden has helped stabilize my mind and make it more firm towards the Dharma.
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Dear all Dorje Shugden practitioners,
With all the bad press that Dorje Shugden has received... can anyone highlight any negative effects Dorje Shugden practice has had on its practitioners?
When i've asked DS critics, usually the murders which are mentioned in [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9065[/url] ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=9065[/url]) are brought up.. but as can be seen at the link, all the allegations are definitely not beyond reasonable doubt. Anyway i am sure that more Christians/Muslims/Hindus/Buddhists aside from DS practitioners have committed crimes over the past few decades but no one is saying that they are practising an evil cult? I read somewhere a good point that just because the Al Queda have committed terrorism in the name of Islam, it doesn't mean that all Muslims are bad.
The high lamas who practised Shugden are reincarnating back, the monasteries are thriving.. the Dalai Lama's life is not shortened... Tibet is not seeking independence (so DS practice will not affect independence) so what is the issue?
I don't get it.
Logic proves and supports the fact! While double standard statements show that how irresponsible those people are.
The way to break through all these, is by educate the people, to see how the logic works, how the logic proves and support the fact. Not by using a double standard to do any judgement and ask the whole world to trust blindly.
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Thanks Lawrence! And it is our duty to share that logic with others. If people remain ignorant and we can help them, we are as much responsible for their ignorance. So whatever we have learned - and there is much effort and time invested in this website to provide the information - we should share with others. There are amazingly creative and innovative ways conjured up by dorjeshugden.com's admin - such as the illustrated story, the comics, the brochures etc. Even email and snail mail addresses of influential or relevant people have been collated so we can write to them to tell them our side of the story. It is made really easy for me to email the list of people now and then with articles i find useful from here. If many people did the same, accurate and authentic information would get out there and people would become more informed about he real situation about Dorje Shugden practice. We all want that, don't we?
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To practise dorje shugden is impossible to have negative effect, at the same time don't have positive effect too. Have anyone experience this??
I think the problem is...
1) the wishes is to harm others
2) not pure motivation
3) have doubt in DS
4) not sincere
5) the wishes end result is not good for you
6) no let go yourself, have to gain trust and go all the way.
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To practise dorje shugden is impossible to have negative effect, at the same time don't have positive effect too. Have anyone experience this??
I think the problem is...
1) the wishes is to harm others
2) not pure motivation
3) have doubt in DS
4) not sincere
5) the wishes end result is not good for you
6) no let go yourself, have to gain trust and go all the way.
Sometimes its because the practitioner is insincere and/or is requesting for something that he/she is not ready for yet. It could also be that the results will not be good in the long run. Or it is a waste of time and merits to get that wish. Dorje Shugden wants our sincerity and effort when it comes to requests and if we dont show that we dont get results because we did not play our part in the equation. DS maybe powerful but we still need to do our part as well.
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It has been more than 10 years that I do this practise, so far I have not received any negative benefits through doing Dorje Shugden's practise. There will definitely be obstacles but how can we blame it on His practise? We all have our obstacles, furthermore, what is life without obstacles? We should be glad that our obstacles and negative karma opened up in this life.
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Have never heard of anyone having negative effects arising from Dorje Shugden practice nor neither come across any news concerning this . If Dorje Shugden is a spirit , where is the ultimate evidence to proof this statement and why did CTA stayed stagnant and silence pertaining to all their claim and accusations. Instead, the only action CTA done was that to discriminate and torture the DS practitioners .