dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: LosangKhyentse on September 01, 2011, 09:54:09 PM
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These days majority or rather a great number of Shugden people have gone underground. It is easier on two fronts. On the spiritual front they don't have to 'defy' the guru they have taken spiritual practices/commitments from yet tell them to give up Shugden. On the other hand they have also taken teachings from gurus that openly practice Shugden and encourage their Shugden practice. So caught in between. Being caught in between has happened to many practitioners who are unfairly and unethically forced to choose a side or a guru.
On a secular level, for the time being, the voice of HHDL is strong and powerful. Since he says don't practice or don't attend his teachings, many who do not attend his teachings are considered traitors, bad practitioners with broken samaya or committed treason of some sort. Tibetans and Tibetan centres speak loudly against these people who do not pose photographs with HHDL or attend his teachings. These centres contrary to Buddha's teachings loudly discourage others from attending centres/lamas they suspect doing Shugden or openly practicing Shugden. That is very sad. So it's easier to just go underground. Many Gelug lamas have no choice but to practice in secret, keeping their Shugden items under lock and key. It is sad when politics get mixed up with something as sacred as Buddha's teachings.
Going underground does not mean you don't have courage. It just means you are balancing a spiritual juggling act of not offending your teachers from both camps of pro- and anti-Shugden. It is easier to just come out and say I PRACTICE SHUGDEN. After all, you take care of yourself and must stick up for your beliefs. You feed yourself and your detractors don't feed you, so why should you worry what they think or say. Whether they like you or not, what does it really matter. Easy to think and wish it that way, but sometimes life is not so simple although it should be.
TK
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Dear Tk,
You have perhaps spoken the minds of innumerable Dorje Shugden practitioners and Lamas who have silently gone underground with their beliefs. I don't think it is a cowardly act, I think they don't really have a choice especially if they are Tibetan and are caught in between Lamas of both sides and the hegemony of the CTA. I belief there are much more Dorje Shugden practitioners within the Tibetan populace than we have anticipated.
These people don't live in the West where oppression and discrimination based upon religious beliefs is outlawed. Hence, we find the strongest voice for Dorje Shugden outside of Tibet. However, most westerners or outsiders don't know what it is like to live with such a fragile political situation within Tibetan Society. However, the strongest devotion to samaya and Lama is found within Tibetan monastic tradition with the formation of the Serpom and Shar Gaden monasteries. They didn't form the monasteries in protest or to 'come out'. They did it because they want to safeguard this sacred tradition of Kyabje Pabongka and Trijang Dorje Chang.
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I totally agree with TK that Shugden practitioners who go underground are not cowards. Besides the reasons given, I think it is also out of compassion that Shugden practitioners do their practice secretly. In this way, ordinary beings (who see this sign of defiance of the Dalai Lama as spiritually negative and then go all out to vilify those who practice Dorje Shugden openly) are not provoked into committing gross and violent acts against Shugden practitioners, out of deluded minds.
At the same time, the high Lamas and great Masters who have set up Shugden monasteries like Serpom and Shar Gaden are to be lauded for setting up these monasteries to preserve the great treasure of Gelugpa lineage teachings and practices, so reverently collected together by Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche and passed to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and other root disciples, who brought all intact out of Tibet into India. These monasteries are now the bastions for preserving all these teachings and practices intact, including the sacred Dorje Shugden practice.
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I am sure it's very difficult for Shugden practitioners to decide whether to be public with their practice or not. Unlike westerners like me, where nobody gives a toss really what i'm practising in my little flat, for the monks and the great masters, it must really be like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Even the supreme head of the Gaden lineage, HH Gaden Trisur Khensur Lungrik Namgyel only publicly 'came out' after his term of office ended. And during his term of office, he had to tow the Dalai Lama's party line. In 2003, the 101st Ganden Tripa said, "I did not do the practice of this protector." Does that mean he is a coward? Definitely not. I think that every single one of us do not have the right to judge the decision of someone to be public in their practice or not. What if they are advised by their Gurus to keep their practice secret?
Let's not judge one another when we have no idea of what the real states of affairs are.
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I do not think going underground is being a coward. It's more of exercising wisdom to practice Dorje Shugden with minimum havoc especially for those practitioners living withing the Tibetan community in exile in India. They are being torn between loyalty to their guru and the practice given to them and to Dalai Lama and the Tibetan government.
It is not a simple thing to go against the Tibetan government to practice DS. The consequences can be severe. They and their families will be ostracized, their livelihood and even their lives will be threatened. What is the point of inviting such problems? Since they placed great importance on their Guru samaya and they need to be sufficiently free of trouble from the authorities to practice, it is only common sense and wisdom to go underground until such a time conditions are conducive for them to come out of the closet and practise freely.
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To be honest, I used to think that DS practitioners gone underground are cowards.
Isn't one of our refuge vows that NOT to give up our refuge even at the cost of our life? How can one hide the practice that helps clear our spiritual path?
However, after meeting my Lama did open up my previously narrow and fixed way of thinking. I learnt to see both sides of the coin, learnt to see the difficulties that others face and appreciate their courage even more.
The uphill battles and inner frustrations of these underground practitioners experience make me respect them more!
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Isn't one of our refuge vows that NOT to give up our refuge even at the cost of our life? How can one hide the practice that helps clear our spiritual path?
Hey, hiding your practice and going underground is NOT giving up your refuge. Giving up your refuge is saying "I promise not to practise Dorje Shugden anymore" and actually MEANING it.
Going underground but still keeping Dorje Shugden close to your heart means youre still keeping your refuge.
If I recall correctly, there are a few ways of keeping your lama close to you. You can be physically close to your lama but spiritually distant. Being physically close but not following in their practices or their training means youre spiritual distant. You can be thousands of miles away or your lama could not be around but if you remain committed to their practice and do it (whether covertly or not), then youre still close to them spiritually... meaning youre still keeping your refuge.
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I think at this time knowing the prophecy made by Trijang Rinpoche on Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden is currently at odds it would be easier to go underground. A lama must have had teacher and if their teacher had 'appeared' to have given up the practise then the student should follow up.
If the student does not toe the line then, he or she puts his teachers in a precarious situation. And the teacher will have to do a lot of explanation if his student is found out to be a Dorje Shugden practitioner. So to keep one's promise to one's guru who gave them the protector practise in the first place it is probably better to go underground. Going underground is not harming anyone so it is perfectly acceptable.
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I think at this time knowing the prophecy made by Trijang Rinpoche on Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden is currently at odds it would be easier to go underground. A lama must have had teacher and if their teacher had 'appeared' to have given up the practise then the student should follow up.
DharmaSpace, I think your use of 'easier' needs to be clarified that its not an 'easier' thats selfish but an 'easier' thats kinder for everyone.
And I dont think its necessarily 'easy' to remain underground when all you want to do is practise openly and undisturbed. I can imagine how itd be stressful to keep hiding all the time because with something so great, why wouldnt you want to share it with the world? And when you cant because you dont know what repercussions there may be to exposing yourself...youre caught between a rock and a hard place.
Repercussions like what students and sponsors youll lose...of course the lamas dont care in the sense its never about money with them, but losing support will mean the Dharma spreads more slowly, and out of their compassion they cant let that happen. So they have to do all they can (including going underground) to keep their students minds stable and happy, so their students can continue to do dharma work and create the merit to one day have right view about the Protector practice. And going underground also means THEIR teachers are not put in a precarious position because remember, our teachers still have their teachers, and their teachers may be facing pressure to ensure their students swear in or give up the practice.
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I used to be so disturbed with how unfairly DS lamas are being treated in the past but I've gotten over it as I understand the bigger picture. Many thanks to this website which has cleared my view.
To me, going underground with DS is not being a coward. Definitely NOT. Giving UP the practice which was given by your guru is a COWARD.
Serkong Tritul Rinpoche and his organisation used to be open about their devotion to DS but in the recent years they have gone underground with the practice. Why? Cause they had problems with the sponsors. BUT their results in the recent years has also been very magnificent ie the new DS monastery in Taiwan, Nepal and I heard they are thinking about building a monastery now in Lumbini. THEREFORE, they are not a coward at all.....DS is still spreading.
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It is like when you believe in something but the whole world turn their backs against you. But deep inside you clearly know this will be good for you. So do you keep shouting and wanting to listen you when they are not or just like the 8 verses of mind transformation - offering the victory to them?
Yes. This is just what the Shugden practitioners are doing... this is a clear display of pure guru devotion. Not making noise is also because of respecting HHDL and of course ultimately understanding the bigger picture. Coward? Nay, I don't think so. Coward are those who create a lot of problems and schism among the Buddhist community and went silent when they are proven wrong. Only time will tell.
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Coward? Nay, I don't think so. Coward are those who create a lot of problems and schism among the Buddhist community and went silent when they are proven wrong. Only time will tell.
I agree with you. People who do Dorje Shugden practice quietly/secretly does not mean they are cowards. Sorry to say, I lost respect to those who give up their practice given by their Lama because of the pressure given by TGIE and society who does not know much about Dorje Shugden, they did it just want to have a so call "better" life, it is short term and they do not see the bigger picture beyond the controversial.
It really make me feel sad and these days people are so easy to give up. Whether the ban is lifted or not, i will not give up this mighty Protector.
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If you kowtow to the ban and give up on Dorje Shugden because you dont have the b**** to face trouble from the Tibetan Government or the Tibetan community, that's a coward.
If you stick to your guns and publicly announce your allegiance to Dorje Shugden, that's NOT a coward.
So what if you go underground with your practice? Which camp to you fall in?
Methinks that it all depends on your motivation. If you love Dorje Shugden, and you are 110% devoted to him, but you have good reason to go underground, then you are NOT a coward. Motivation begins and ends all things after all! You may wonder what could possibly be good enough reason to not be considered a coward? Here are a few:
If you come out, and this causes the spread of BuddhaDharma in your area to be affected because the community shuns you - then you are NOT a coward if you go underground.
If you come out, and this affects the credibility of your gurus who are in the monastery and not practising, and the Tibetan Govt starts to pressure them because of you, then you are NOT a coward if you go underground.
If you come out, and this affects your monastery because you will be kicked out and can no longer support them eg with fundraising, then you are NOT a coward if you go underground.
nuff said?
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The coward is the one sitting behind the self imposed rules and regulations of a perceived ban. They are the true cowards. Sitting there believing they are not creating any negative karma by causing so much suffering for practitioners, and teachers alike.
Causing students to turn their backs on their teachers, causing Sangha to be split apart.
This is the real cowardice. As a practitioner don't be disheartened. Keep your relationship with our protector close as it was always meant to be and just ride out the lows until the next high.
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No, I don't think it's a cowardly act at all.
1. I think it's perfectly normal to want to stay underground and not want to announce one's practices as it's a personal affair since in this case the choice made is to keep and maintain peace
2. When we receive tantric practices, we don't go around announcing it either. Can look at it the same manner.
3. I think it's an act of bravery and loyalty to want to protect one's gurus while having respect of HHDL
Just my thoughts ;D
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These days majority or rather a great number of Shugden people have gone underground. It is easier on two fronts. On the spiritual front they don't have to 'defy' the guru they have taken spiritual practices/commitments from yet tell them to give up Shugden. On the other hand they have also taken teachings from gurus that openly practice Shugden and encourage their Shugden practice. So caught in between. Being caught in between has happened to many practitioners who are unfairly and unethically forced to choose a side or a guru.
You know that is one of the most horrible thing that a person can be subjected to. It would be like being forced at gunpoint to denounce your parents in front of them. Just because HHDL was put in that situation with Reting Rinpoche, why would anyone else should be subjected to the same thing? Or perhaps, it could be, that it is their karma to experience this due to what happened with Reting Rinpoche, so we have to bear it silently?
On a secular level, for the time being, the voice of HHDL is strong and powerful. Since he says don't practice or don't attend his teachings, many who do not attend his teachings are considered traitors, bad practitioners with broken samaya or committed treason of some sort. Tibetans and Tibetan centres speak loudly against these people who do not pose photographs with HHDL or attend his teachings. These centres contrary to Buddha's teachings loudly discourage others from attending centres/lamas they suspect doing Shugden or openly practicing Shugden. That is very sad. So it's easier to just go underground. Many Gelug lamas have no choice but to practice in secret, keeping their Shugden items under lock and key. It is sad when politics get mixed up with something as sacred as Buddha's teachings.
I find it very sad indeed as it causes so much unnecessary problems and complications to arise from this. It is so unnecessary for the ban to appear, yet it did. But what is more unnecessary is how the Tibetans are still so political despite having the Dalai Lama with them for 350 years. When will they start practicing Dharma?
Going underground does not mean you don't have courage. It just means you are balancing a spiritual juggling act of not offending your teachers from both camps of pro- and anti-Shugden. It is easier to just come out and say I PRACTICE SHUGDEN. After all, you take care of yourself and must stick up for your beliefs. You feed yourself and your detractors don't feed you, so why should you worry what they think or say. Whether they like you or not, what does it really matter. Easy to think and wish it that way, but sometimes life is not so simple although it should be.
It is of course, easier to be open about Dorje Shugden if we did not have any responsibilities and commitments to people that depend on us for spiritual nourishment, or if we dont give two hoots about their minds and how confused the may be when they find out about this issue (eventually). So to me, going underground is more compassionate as we do think about protecting their minds.
TK
your post really echoed my thoughts on this issue as I am underground too with my practice. Why be open and disturb the minds of others unnecessarily? I prefer to go underground and do my practice quietly without confusing my friends and family, thank you.
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Dear TK,
I don't think going underground is a coward act at all. Firstly is for those how have their commitments to gurus on both camps, one is asking you to keep your practice of the protector, while the other is telling you to give up. How are you going to choose? It's unfair to do that. So I think going underground is the best way without disrespect to any of the gurus.
Secondly, there are many people who are new to Tibetan Buddhism, or Buddhism in general, and there are many people with unstable mind. Going underground while still spreading Buddha's teachings to them out of compassion and having them firmly grounded with the practice their lama has assigned to them, keeps them from running around with an unstable mind or confusion is not a coward act, but done out of pure love and compassion. And this also minimize the chance of them being disrespectful to other lamas, centre or lineage.
Thank you for your post.
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Doing the practice quietly and not in the public's eyes is similar to not showing off one's ritual practice and telling the whole world of one's yidam.
Doing the practice quietly means one wants to pursue and gain attainments to fuel one's journey on the path of enlightenment.
Doing the practice quietly shows one only has dharma motivation in mind, not politics.
Doing the practice quietly is heeding and practicing guru devotion.
Doing the practice quietly removes violence instead of going to the streets and stomp on statues, burn flags, incite hatred and creating loss to properties and lives. Some even own lives.
Doing the practice quietly is HEROIC, not cowardly.
The End will justify the Means.
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Thanks samayakeeper! you have very strong points there that I personally find it a very compelling list of arguments that support the notion of going underground with Dorje Shugden and I personally find them very logical:
Doing the practice quietly and not in the public's eyes is similar to not showing off one's ritual practice and telling the whole world of one's yidam.
In this aspect, one must ask: what is the use and purpose of doing it publicly and announcing to the whole world about the protector practice? Is there an absolute need for people to tell the whole world what are they doing? If there isnt, then why the need to announce and make it public in the first place?
Doing the practice quietly means one wants to pursue and gain attainments to fuel one's journey on the path of enlightenment.
Why is it that the tantras keep harping on the point again and again for us to not show off our attainments? Surely, there must be a reason. If Dorje Shugden is a tantric practice by itself, why do we show off?
Doing the practice quietly shows one only has dharma motivation in mind, not politics.
Agreed!!
Doing the practice quietly is heeding and practicing guru devotion.
Isnt that what Trijang Rinpoche asked us to do in Music Delighting the ocean of protectors?
Doing the practice quietly removes violence instead of going to the streets and stomp on statues, burn flags, incite hatred and creating loss to properties and lives. Some even own lives.
Logically, how can something that is supposed to bring peace be represented with violence?
Doing the practice quietly is HEROIC, not cowardly.
It is more difficult to do the practice quietly because you dont have the whole world supporting you, but we dont do it for support, right?
The End will justify the Means.
Personally, I find these points very strong and very sharp and tart with regards to this 'issue' that is not even supposed to be one in the first place. I personally feel that Dharma practices should always remain private for the reasons stated here and this post really echoes my thoughts.
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We all have our own way of keeping our practice going. We all face different obstacles. Some face more obstacles than others, that is obvious. No one should judge how another is practicing, if the practice either in secret or openly. The bottom line is keeping samaya clean.
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I believe that it is always easier said than done. There are many Shugden practitioners out there who are suffering for practicing it openly. I may not be in the position to say whether they are cowards or not but I must say, I will openly practice Shugden if I am in their shoes. Like what TK said, they don't pay nor feed me so I don't have to play their games. For eg. it has nothing to do with other people but my Guru. There is no one out there I treasure more than my Guru for He is the one who will save me and give me the most precious, Dharma. If my Guru can practice and go all the way with Dorje Shugden, why should I be scared? For my Guru and my Protector are one!
Politics really have their ways... Sigh! And I do not believe that they are cowards...
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Well seeing as at the NKT we don't have any connection with the Dalai lama Geshe kelsang was able to set the agenda as he liked. Loosing political backing from the Dalai lama is a small thing compared to loosing samaya and the ability to attain accomplishments from said bond.
Are you a coward if you go underground ? No.
If you denounce your Root Guru's in the process of trying to make your self look good in front of the DL and his assembly...You are beyond despicable.
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We all have our own way of keeping our practice going. We all face different obstacles. Some face more obstacles than others, that is obvious. No one should judge how another is practicing, if the practice either in secret or openly. The bottom line is keeping samaya clean.
Everyone has their own ways of doing Dorje Shugden's practice and nobody can say that which method is right or wrong. Each Guru has his own methods of propagating the protector and the end results will still be the same: that people benefit from protector practice. If we criticize one method of practice, it would be the same as criticizing all the Buddhas and also our own Guru because how do we know which method is wrong or correct? Why spend so much time judging and finding out instead of putting things into practice? irregardless of whether or not the practice is done openly or covertly, the practice is still being done and both methods are correct but criticizing those who go underground for whatever reason isnt exact a nice thing to do or say because each teacher would have their own methods of planting seeds and mode of practice. It is good that we all understand each other as Dorje Shugden practitioners, and that is our common ground to be united.
I am really happy to see everyone here in a united voice, because this is what this forum is for: to unite all Dorje Shugden practitioners and to support each other during these times.
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I do not agree that if you go underground, u are a coward.
There are many reasons Tibetans who practices Shugden are forced to go underground. I do know a few as I do have friends who are monks. A lot of them have to go underground mainly because of their guru's instruction. Some, they have NO WHERE TO GO, they have been staying in the monastery for so many years, the family is in the monastery itself. I do not blame them as long as they do not talk bad about Shugden and be two face about this.
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Going underground is the best thing that sincere and devoted Shugden practitioners can skillfully do now due to the ban. It is necessary because Dorje Shugden practice had become very political.
Spiritual practice is personal, and no one should actually control another on how the practice should be conducted. Many have become disillusioned by this ban. Many are concerned with the broken samaya or commitment with His Holiness Dalai Lama. If practising Dorje Shugden is so difficult and causes so much concerns, fears, tensions, stress, wouldn’t it be better not to practise it because there are 84 thousand teachings taught by Shakyamuni Buddha to choose from?
If Dorje Shugden practitioners had received and chosen to practise Dorje Shugden, then they should follow their spiritual guides’ instructions all the way and not be affected by the ban.
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To me the primary issue is not about whether it makes me a coward or not, to hide that I am practicing Dorje Shugden. Neither should it be important for me to openly declare that I am defying the ban imposed by the Dalai Lama. The issue of my bravery or cowardice should not arise.
Instead we should consider whether it serves the cause of Dorje Shugden better to practice quietly for now and share the teaching with others without interruption from the CTA and pro-ban people. In addition, we should consider how our declaration may implicate other practitioners and put their lives into possible danger.
The previous (101st) Ganden Tripa shows great wisdom in going "underground" with the Shugden practice while he was still holding office. The impact of His Holiness's declaration at the right time had great positive impact and to me was a great coup in the propaganda war against the ban.
It is more about wisdom rather than courage. It is about how we can best further our practice, not how we may be seen in the bravery stakes.
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Going underground is the best thing that sincere and devoted Shugden practitioners can skillfully do now due to the ban. It is necessary because Dorje Shugden practice had become very political.
It has become very political and polarizing, so to speak. Either you are for or against Dorje Shugden, and both sides of the camp seem to view you as bad: the Dalai Lama camp says that you're praying to an evil spirit and going against the Tibetan independence, while the other side claims that the Dalai Lama is evil. Why cant it be neutral: whatever i practice is none of your beeswax? Who can tell anyway unless they have clairvoyance?
Spiritual practice is personal, and no one should actually control another on how the practice should be conducted. Many have become disillusioned by this ban. Many are concerned with the broken samaya or commitment with His Holiness Dalai Lama. If practising Dorje Shugden is so difficult and causes so much concerns, fears, tensions, stress, wouldn’t it be better not to practise it because there are 84 thousand teachings taught by Shakyamuni Buddha to choose from?
If you choose HHDL to be your Guru for whatever reason, then avoid Dorje Shugden. The end. Simple, isnt it? Now, why the need to deride Dorje Shugden? If your Guru aint Dorje Shugden, no broken samaya. broken samaya is when you leave your Guru for the Dalai Lama.
If Dorje Shugden practitioners had received and chosen to practise Dorje Shugden, then they should follow their spiritual guides’ instructions all the way and not be affected by the ban.
Ban does not really affect serious/sincere practitioners, if you ask me. Sincere practitioners just stick to their teacher and they dont get feedback from other teachers because they need to focus on their practice.
I think you have made your point very clearly across with regards to this issue and have also highlighted the issues that crop up with the ban. In the end, everyone agrees that the ban is nothing more than a political guise/stance and sincere practitioners will avoid it.
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Personally, I do not think you would be a coward if you go underground because ultimately your practise is between Dorje Shugden and yourself, your guru and yourself and not between you and what you are in the eyes of others. I have no doubt that many are in the situation where they are caught between a pro-shugden and anti-shugden teacher or monastery and face tremendous dilemma in their decision making. It's like choosing your left hand or your right hand - either way, it's tough.
Therefore, going underground does not make you a coward. If it protects your guru, protects you, protects those around you and yet you are still able to benefit others in your faith, then it totally beats those going around and shunning Shugden practitioners.
Afterall, what is a corward? A real coward is "a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person." In other words, a coward does not take responsibility for and of others for fear of the difficulties they have to endure. That's a coward. So if your motivation to go underground doesn't fall according to those lines, then you are not a coward.
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For me, I would believe for the time being, with the ban still on, practicing underground would be a better choice while I am still following what my Guru teaches me, and I still respect HH Dalai Lama for bringing Buddhism to others. In this way, I am not harming my Guru and all around me and yet I am still able to spread Dharma to others. Isn’t it good?
Spiritual practices are personal and it is not to be flatter around. We can also see that tantric practices are also done quietly. Therefore, there is no wrong at all to practice secretly as long as our motivation is clear and pure.
I just can’t wait for the day that the ban will be lifted and everyone can practice Dorje Shugden in harmony and get the blessing from him.
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I recall one of the Chinese sages once quoted
'If we are under duress it is permissible to use deception'
Yes some lamas they have many teachers on the Dorje Shugden side and you also have received teaching for His Holiness the Dalai Lama so one is caught in between.
Plus for the people who have to hide their practices they do need a greater sense of awareness and practice not to reveal their practices which is a great training in mindfullness. For people when they get their tantric empowerments they cannot simply reveal what practices they have and are doing also.
Live to fight another day, this kaliyuga age is it not exactly easy to for people to get the dharma, if what we can do with the practice and by also going underground can help people to benefit and to be saved, I would choose to go underground. There is no indignity to hide one's intentions if it is benevolent.
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We can be very deceptive with our own desires and having our ways. In fact most of time we can say one thing but do another thing to protect our ego self, our desires. We promise one thing but not keeping it. We are betraying ourselves.
If we say we don't practice but did it anyway are we increasing our desires, our ego self? Why do some are so glad to give up a practice? Does it point to the lack of results from the practice? Does giving up instead serve a higher purpose for your own self?
The methods given by a guru to disciples will produce results to devoted and faithful disciples. If the disciples have gained compassion and wisdom from these methods, the results have spoken for themselves. Going underground and continuing the practicing and thus achieving the results as compared to stopping it doesn't mean you're a coward, it means you're going to achieve something no matter it is public or private knowledge.
In a sense the wisdom is when we serve others we don't trumpet our actions, our methods, our religions or whatever. Therefore this goes back the main reason and motivation of practicing Dharma, and having a guru, and being a Buddhist.
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The definition of coward from dictionary.com explains that coward is a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
In light of this definition and also what I have read thus far here on this thread, and this website, the word coward is not the right word for this situation.
The practitioners of Dorje Shugden are patient, brave and loyal. Plus, for whatever reasons they may have, they are upholding their faith despite all the odds against them. Considering the violence which have taken place it would be smart to stay out of violence by going underground. If one loses one's life then how will they continue the practice?
At the same time I rejoice that monasteries like Serpom can practice openly... I truly rejoice.
Thus, there is really no right or wrong way. There is of course always a heavy-hearted feeling knowing the Ban still continues and I pray that all our efforts to spread DS practice here on this website will reach many many and the Ban be lifted before HHDL passes!
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"The Dharma is about to be wiped out, and when the time for that comes, all the gods will weep tears. Rainy and dry seasons will be untimely, the Five Grains will not ripen, pestilential vapors will be prevalent; there will be many dead. The common people will toil in hardship, the public officials will be calculating and harsh; not compliant with the principles of the Way, all will have their hearts set on pleasure or disorder. Wicked men will steadily increase in number, to become like the sands of the sea; the good will be very scarce, no more than one or two."
"Great floods will suddenly occur; they will strike by surprise, unlooked-for. The people of the world will have no faith, and hence they will take the world to be permanent. Living creatures of every variety, with no distinction between gentry and the base, will be drowned and float away, dashed about, to be eaten by fish or turtles."
"At that time, there will be Bodhisattvas, Pratyeka-Buddhas, and Arhats; the gang of demons will drive them away, and they will not participate in the religious community. These three types of disciples will enter into the mountains, to a land of merit. Tranquil and self-controlled, they will rest content in this. Their lives will grow longer, the various gods will protect and watch over them, and Moon-Light [Bodhisattva] will appear in the world. They will be able to meet him, and together they will make my Way flourish."
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i personally do not think its a coward act too. just keep this practice as a secret practice doesnt make you a coward at all. when the time ripens, many people will be able to do this practice openly and 'legally' all around the world. For the time being, DS practitioner keeps the practice close to heart and practice the perfection of patience.
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Ultimately, whether or not someone goes underground or overground is not really any of our business. Any Lama that choses either path is not really our business either. Why? Because who are we to talk about and criticize high lamas? If we want to talk about how lamas who go underground are cowardly, then we are criticizing lamas who keep their practice to themselves, and these can be lamas with many high attainments and many years of study and practice and have benefitted many people before them. To criticize that lamas who go openly with Dorje Shugden would also have the same implications. If we criticize another lama just because we do not like how they practice, then how are we different than the people who go against Dorje Shugden and criticize the Shugden lamas. so why should we go that way? Would it not be better to know our enemy and then be different from them? Wouldnt it be ironic and disastrous to end up like the very people who prosecuted and denied Dorje Shugden?
Therefore with this issue, the logical conclusion is to not criticize either sides.
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It is hard to say if a person is coward if he goes underground with Dorje Shugden practices. This situation is quite tricky and many things to take into consideration.
I really salute the practitioners who openly declare they are Dorje Shugden practitioners. They have to suffer a lot, including very basic necessities such as hospital, schools, etc. That said, I do not have any disrespect to practitioners who has gone underground.
I think for some, it may be better to go underground. I have also heard that there are some Lamas who would like to declare themselves as Dorje Shugden practitioners, but the protector specifically ask them not to do so YET because the timing is not correct...
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I recall one of the Chinese sages once quoted
'If we are under duress it is permissible to use deception'
Yes some lamas they have many teachers on the Dorje Shugden side and you also have received teaching for His Holiness the Dalai Lama so one is caught in between.
For some lamas, if they openly declare themselves as Dorje Shudgen practitioners, it would harm the minds of many students and thus, they have to go underground. For example, Lama Zopa is a very clear example of one such lama. They are doing this out of compassion.
Plus for the people who have to hide their practices they do need a greater sense of awareness and practice not to reveal their practices which is a great training in mindfullness. For people when they get their tantric empowerments they cannot simply reveal what practices they have and are doing also.
If we announce our practice to the world it can cause us to have pride, that only works for tantric practices but in the case of Dorje Shugden it is perhaps to promote unity and openness: united we are strong. Thus there are forums such as these to give us a voice to be united for the Dorje Shugden cause.
Live to fight another day, this kaliyuga age is it not exactly easy to for people to get the dharma, if what we can do with the practice and by also going underground can help people to benefit and to be saved, I would choose to go underground. There is no indignity to hide one's intentions if it is benevolent.
If going underground damages and confuses less people but makes it harder for me to do my practice, I would choose to go underground because ultimately my reason for doing Dharma practice is to benefit others. Makes no sense to go loud and proud in a situation where it will confuse others i.e. when my lama is underground. It's a different story if my lama is open about it tho.
Thanks Dharmaspace for your opinions on this issue. I do agree that this issue has been dividing Dorje Shugden practitioners for a long time and if we can work this out we will be able to resolve our issues and be united for one cause: the lifting of the ban.
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Cowardice is when you go along with a silly decision because you want to look good and no guts to speak your mind. That is being a coward. The cowards are those who blindly follow without investigating the truth and agree with the crowd.
What do you expect the Shugdenpas to do? Especially those who are within the radar of CTA? Be ostracised by their own community or break their samaya? Totally unfair either way. If you openly practice, you are condemned. If you give up your practice, you are condemned. Ridiculous. The best solution is to continue your practice quietly. You are definitely NOT a coward but acting with wisdom.
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Cowardice is when you go along with a silly decision because you want to look good and no guts to speak your mind. That is being a coward. The cowards are those who blindly follow without investigating the truth and agree with the crowd.
What do you expect the Shugdenpas to do? Especially those who are within the radar of CTA? Be ostracised by their own community or break their samaya? Totally unfair either way. If you openly practice, you are condemned. If you give up your practice, you are condemned. Ridiculous. The best solution is to continue your practice quietly. You are definitely NOT a coward but acting with wisdom.
To me, cowardice is discarding your own values and taking on the values of others, such as abandoning Dorje Shugden for the sake of following the politically correct Dalai Lama. People who just follow the crowd to look good and they dont even know what are they doing at all, like what rihanna had said. Going underground is just going underground, the practice is not being done openly but from the shadows...and they're not discarding Dorje Shugden.
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Real cowards hide because if they are found out, they have may be punished and the reason for their hiding is to cover some fault or agenda which benefits them. Or they will not own up because they have done so much wrong to someone else.
Shugden worshippers hide not out of cowardice but to maintain harmony and create peace so that no more people especially Tibetans will suffer from discrimination.
They also hide because of respect for the Dalai Lama. I think it is not cowardice but sure compassion and strong faith.
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Reminds me of an old saying "judge not lest you be judged". It is very fine balancing act that the lamas have to toe. One the one hand, they do not wish to break samaya with their lama, but on the other they do not wish to openly defy the Dalai Lama. As wisdombeing said, they are caught between the rock and a hard place.
Even Jesus said to the crowd when they wanted to stone Mary Magdalene "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Have compassion for the practitioners who is trying to do right by the Buddhist path. Please Dalai Lama practice equanimity and lift the ban. Don't just let others practice religious freedom but not the Tibetans, don't let other be free but not the Tibetans.
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I do not think that going underground is a coward act. Some DS practitioners and lamas need to go underground so that they can do their practice in peace and privately. If they publicly announce that they practice DS, their life might be in danger and they might be harm.
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Dorje Shugden practitioners are not cowards for going underground. As tk says, it is easier to come out but you would not want to offend either type of teacher that you may be under. The best way to practice this completely harmless deity is to do so in secret until the ban is lifted, at which point, everyone can come out and practice openly. Alternatively, we could slowly start coming out, until the majority is converted and they would have no choice but to either unban or make practicing Shugden a whole new religion.
Politics should never be mixed with holy teachings. The teachings are and always will be pure. There is no reason to detract from this purity. To all, continue practicing regardless of what general consensus is. If you want to practice in secret. Fine! You are not a coward. If people are willing to forsake their gurus and their practice due to politics, those are unfortunately the true cowards as they allow secular reasons to intervene with their holy practices.
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It had been noticed that once the Shugdenpas surface and declare their faith to Dorje Shugden, the response from so called Dalai Lama supporters is extremely violent in especially in the social media and OMG the whole world can see their discrimination not only among Tibetans but across of borders to other nationalities.
What is most saddening to read is the profanity with which these anti Shugdenpas and pro Dalai Lama would condemn Shugdenpas. Where is the compassion as taught by the Dalai Lama to his followers?
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I don't think if i practice what i want and go underground is an act of coward. Why should i announce what i practice to the world? Can i change anything if i announce? Further, i thought in Vajrayana practice, we are not suppose to loudly tell people what are we practicing as an act of humble.
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“Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.”…..Wikipedia
In the case those Shugden practitioners who continued their practices secretly or underground should in fact be regarded as loyal , faithful and consistent. Therefore, the word coward is inappropriate to be used in this situation . I believe these practitioners have been going through some tough period before making the decision to go underground. I salute their courage in embracing tight to this great king protector practice. If not of their perseverance, the lineage will be broken and extinct.
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[Within the Tibetan community, you are ostracised, spat on, your children forbidden to be registered in a local school, unable to buy sundries from the local store, etc etc. What choice does one have except to practice in private while keeping his samaya with his teacher? Anyways, isn't it supposed to be a secret practice to begin with? The Gelug tradition practices humility and not flaunt practices given to them by their teachers. They are heroes, not cowards.]
“Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need—it is the opposite of courage. As a label, "cowardice" indicates a failure of character in the face of a challenge.”…..Wikipedia
In the case those Shugden practitioners who continued their practices secretly or underground should in fact be regarded as loyal , faithful and consistent. Therefore, the word coward is inappropriate to be used in this situation . I believe these practitioners have been going through some tough period before making the decision to go underground. I salute their courage in embracing tight to this great king protector practice. If not of their perseverance, the lineage will be broken and extinct.
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IMHO, the issue of being a coward does not arise here. Some of the Lama chose to go underground because the circumstance that they have taken teachings from HHDL. When the ban was imposed , they are caught in the absurd position if they continued with the practice they will defy HHDL’s instructions . If they abandon , they will break samaya with their DS Guru.
For those who took on the practice after the ban, naturally we should not take formal teaching from HHDL as his advice , doing so will be like knowingly banging our own head against the wall. There are many qualified DS Lama who could impart to us the complete teaching of the Gelupa sect. Spiritually, it would be for the best of current given situation. As for those who are caught in this dilemma, it is definitely not our cowardly act as some might perceive it to be. Many silence Lama that we know of done so with great compassion as not to create more disharmony to the Tibetan community as current situation had been bad enough. Being loud and vocal does not help the entire Tibetan Buddhism community as well. In many instance mentioned in the scripture when Lord Buddha was asked a question, he remained silence as an answer.
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I do not think practicing Dorje Shugden underground is cowardly, it is a decision made that would protect not only the practitioner but those who oppose the practice of Dorje Shugden. Those who act as spiritual police of HHDL sometimes go to the extreme, by practicing it underground it doesn't give them any attention to you to what you're doing which prevents them from committing any harm on to you or those around you. It saves them the opportunity of creating bad karma for themselves. It really depends on the situation, you need to know your situation best for yourself in order to know who and what benefits more in whether practicing Dorje Shugden openly or disclosed.
Although no one needs to know your practice in the first place whether deemed politically correct to practice Dorje Shugden or not, many monks wouldn't show of whom their yidams are and practice in secret but yet may promote their yidam without having told anyone thats their yidam. I suppose it is a very subjective decision to make. One end you could be protecting those who wish to harm you, protect those who wish to harm those around you, or even protect yourself so that you may practice in peace. But I do salute those in Tibet and India who are practicing it openly and have not sworn in to leave their practices because of their guru devotion and faith in Dorje Shugden. They are the heroes for having to suffer the life of oppression, ostracization and violence yet stick so faithfully to their practice.
You may decide to practice underground in hopes to create less obstacles for yourself for a higher goal and purpose in your spiritual path of enlightenment, who knows. Nice discussion I enjoyed reading it.