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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mana on April 21, 2011, 09:28:07 PM
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Gaden Monastery wanted to permanently remove the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche from their Main prayer hall as Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden. In a surprise and shocking move, the Tibetan Govt intervened and ordered the throne to remain in Gaden and not be removed. This added to the confusion as all Shugden practitioners of any rank must be removed from Gaden, Sera and Drepung. So why still keep his throne in Gaden 'reminding' everyone of Trijang Rinpoche's presence?
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I would like to think that the Dalai Lama has deliberately ordered the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to be left intact and to remain in place in Gaden monastery. I would also like to think that He has also deliberately allowed Trijang Rinpoche to continue his practice of Dorje Shugden.
My belief is that he is showing all Tibetans that he honors and respects his root guru and his incarnation. So others must also honor and respect him. By allowing Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to practice Dorje Shugden, he is also deliberately allowing a key modern day protector of Dorje Shugden practice to continue to protect and propagate Dorje Shugden practice. By this he shows that he has not closed all ‘doors’ to Shugden practice –one important ‘door’ and ‘gateway’ remains open.
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To do so really would be to take the cake dont you think. The Dalai lama demonstrating his reliance upon his spiritual guide by removing all trace of him from Gaden Shartse. No wonder why Trijang Labrang has gone next door.
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so many contradictions from the Dalai Lama's side regarding the Dharmapala's practice and the ban...
But perhaps it is a subtle little hint, just like what vajrastorm has suggested, that hints to practitioners that we should still follow in the footsteps of Trijang Rinpoche and uphold his lineage, a wink from the Dalai Lama that actually, not all is wrong.
(See the video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWi1fJkTA9Q)
Whether in Gaden or not, there are many practitioners who regard Trijang Rinpoche as their teacher. There are also many new people coming into Dharma now who are disciples of the present incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche. If the present incarnation is permitted to practice Dorje Shugden, don't you think all his disciples and all the sangha who follow him would also be practicing? Once he begins to teach (and he already has), wouldn't he naturally pass on the practices that he is doing and has received and upheld in his many incarnations?
I am sure the Dalai Lama would know this... so why does he allow Trijang Rinpoche to practice knowing that this is probably going to be the most influential lama to spread this BANNED PRACTICE to the most number of people?
Or is it precisely BECAUSE he knows this that he has allowed him to continue? Two sides to the same coin!
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This is quite an interesting topic. Where the monastery is going against a high Lama by removing his throne, on the other hand, the people who banned the practice are now helping the Lama who is being accused for the practice... How ironic?!!!? This shows the compassion of H.H respecting the throne, the guru and most important of all, the practice. He holds them dear to his heart. If he is really saying what he is saying... I am sure the throne would be destroyed in no time! Look at how even monks are hurting one another... It only meant that whatever is happening now is aiming at a bigger picture.
In Buddhism, Trijang Rinpoche is regarded as a highly attained being, a well respected guru, a great scholar, emanation of Heruka and most important the root guru of H.H... No matter where Trijang Rinpoche is, his preserved teachings are going to spread wide and far, regardless how many throne are removed. It all sound silly to me that the monastery with so much faith in the dharma would want to give up such precious guru. But i don't blame them really, one hand is Trijang Rinpoche, the other hand is H.H The Dalai Lama. It is only a matter of time where all will see the truth with their own eyes. In the end, all are connected with one protector.
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I'm so unbelievably over the moon right now, did I read correctly? The crumbling TGIE actually used their "unjustified powers" to overide HHDL Ban!!!!
People wake up everything is not as it seems, just what does this simple action mean... in easy
terms to understand.
TGIE the police, watchdog and executioner of all things to do with banning the practice have helped to save the practice!
HHDL keeps quiet... means he approves of Trijang Rinpoches incarnation practicing and this great Teacher passing on the practice.
Keeping the throne in Gaden serves to remind everyone to think again, think deeper and get it through their heads just stay out of the politics.
TGIE are staunch supporters of HHDL so who would they listen to otherwise, who could influence them to do what they did? HHDL of course that's who.
Well at least these are the conclusions that I come to anyways. Leave me to my delusions at least for the rest of the evening.
$%% Pleasantly smiling ##@#
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Gaden Monastery wanted to permanently remove the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche from their Main prayer hall as Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden. In a surprise and shocking move, the Tibetan Govt intervened and ordered the throne to remain in Gaden and not be removed. This added to the confusion as all Shugden practitioners of any rank must be removed from Gaden, Sera and Drepung. So why still keep his throne in Gaden 'reminding' everyone of Trijang Rinpoche's presence?
Maybe the TGIE don't want to rock the boat. In this time of transition, you never know which 'camp' is going to arise as the stronger voice of the two. So the TGIE don't want to put all of their eggs in one basket, in case it's the wrong basket.
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Gaden Monastery wanted to permanently remove the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche from their Main prayer hall as Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden. In a surprise and shocking move, the Tibetan Govt intervened and ordered the throne to remain in Gaden and not be removed. This added to the confusion as all Shugden practitioners of any rank must be removed from Gaden, Sera and Drepung. So why still keep his throne in Gaden 'reminding' everyone of Trijang Rinpoche's presence?
Whatever the reasons might be, the fact that Trijang Rinpoche's throne remained in Gaden is a very good sign. The picture will only be clearer, (with due respect to HHDL), when HHDL passes away.
It also serves to make the Gaden monks to contemplate deeply the whole picture. Why only Trijang rinpoche is allowed to practise DS and not the other lamas. If DS is bad, then no exception to Trijang Rinpoche also.
I hope the Gaden monks can figure out the real picture sooner than later.
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Perhaps we are at the tail end of the ban, about to enter a new beginning??
I do find this news refreshing...thought the instruction looks contradictory with what TGIE stands for.
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They have also made no attempt to remove the sand mandala created by Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang from the Shartse prayer hall.
Last time I was there, the throne of the 101st Trisur Rinpoche was there as well.
Oh, also the statue of Panchen Sonam Drakpa still resides in Shartse's prayer hall.
Maybe I can try to get pictures.
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There are so many things in the monasteries that are just very inconsistent these days. But I feel they are not to blame. They are controlled by the Tibetan Govt and they HAVE ZERO FREEDOM or choice. It is sad when the sangha are controlled in such a way by a dictatorial govt that feigns democracy.
I am sorry to say, but I am just waiting for the Tibetan Govt to go under. They are not respected by any real govt in the world. They are buying time for the inevitable.
The abbots of Sera, Drepung and Gaden are forced to be puppets of the Tibetan Govt without any real control of the monasteries. One wrong step out of line, they are removed from office. They have to do everything what the Tibetan Govt tell them to do. The unfair treatment of the Shugden practitioners in the Monasteries is just one of the many examples how Tibetan Govt is abusive in their control of their people.
Does anyone have any ideas why the Tibetan Govt would keep Trijang Rinpoche & Gaden Trisur's throne still in Gaden's prayer hall? Trijang Rinpoche and Gaden Trisur have not sworn in to renounce Shugden and left for Shar Gaden. By right anything related to them should be removed. So why is it not removed?
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They have also made no attempt to remove the sand mandala created by Kyabje Zong Dorje Chang from the Shartse prayer hall.
Last time I was there, the throne of the 101st Trisur Rinpoche was there as well.
Oh, also the statue of Panchen Sonam Drakpa still resides in Shartse's prayer hall.
Maybe I can try to get pictures.
Hmmm interesting. I understand that Gaden Shartse also continue to study Panchen Sonam Drakpa's texts - those in fact, form the core of the Geshe curriculum. So Dorje Shugden is an evil spirit, but they will continue to study the texts of one of his previous incarnations, regarded as an enlightened being. ... yet another contradiction!
I asked once if these monasteries study Liberation in the Palm of your Hand by Pabongkha and yes, they do. So the lama is bad but his teachings are sacred?
I think one of the reasons the throne is allowed to stay arises from the argument that Trijang Rinpoche and other masters like him are great, holy etc BUT they were wrong with just this one practice. That's what's said anyway...
Contradictory? Yes!
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This is very shocking! I can't believe the TGIE is saving Trijang Rinpoche's throne after all they have done. However, I don't think the TGIE is acting in this case. I believe it is the Dalai Lama has decided to intervene to save Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's throne. This is my speculation and I think it is not merely Guru devotion that he is thinking but paving the way for Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to re-establish himself in the Great Monasteries as his throne is still there once the Dalai Lama is gone and Dorje Shugden is big. At that time, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche would be busy going back to the great monasteries to actively give large scale initiations to all the monks in the monasteries and re-introduce Dorje Shugden to the monastic community.
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This is very shocking! I can't believe the TGIE is saving Trijang Rinpoche's throne after all they have done. However, I don't think the TGIE is acting in this case. I believe it is the Dalai Lama has decided to intervene to save Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche's throne. This is my speculation and I think it is not merely Guru devotion that he is thinking but paving the way for Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche to re-establish himself in the Great Monasteries as his throne is still there once the Dalai Lama is gone and Dorje Shugden is big. At that time, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche would be busy going back to the great monasteries to actively give large scale initiations to all the monks in the monasteries and re-introduce Dorje Shugden to the monastic community.
Good point you have there.
I agree that it could be the dalai lama. It matches what dalai lama has said about allowing Trijang Rinpoche to practice. So either the dalai lama is directly behind this decision, or it has somehow (unwittingly!) influenced the TGIE to follow in the same way. Either way, it matches this very strange and contradictory move of allowing no one to practice except Trijang Rinpoche... some sameness in the chaos.
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Yes, many things "authorized" by HHDL appeared to be contradictory and inconsistent NOW.
Perhaps in 10 or 20 years time, everything will fall into place and the bigger scheme of things will be revealed.
Just like the Lamrim, when Atisha placed all of the three schools of teachings systematically scope by scope, then nothing is contradictory. Things appear confusing to us when we look at issues separately through tunnel vision. I would like to think that if we were not to jump into conclusion always quickly, but instead keep an open mind leave some space and time; the results of the actions of these high Masters would show that nothing is wasted nor contradictory.
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There are so many things in the monasteries that are just very inconsistent these days. But I feel they are not to blame. They are controlled by the Tibetan Govt and they HAVE ZERO FREEDOM or choice. It is sad when the sangha are controlled in such a way by a dictatorial govt that feigns democracy.
I am sorry to say, but I am just waiting for the Tibetan Govt to go under. They are not respected by any real govt in the world. They are buying time for the inevitable.
The abbots of Sera, Drepung and Gaden are forced to be puppets of the Tibetan Govt without any real control of the monasteries. One wrong step out of line, they are removed from office. They have to do everything what the Tibetan Govt tell them to do. The unfair treatment of the Shugden practitioners in the Monasteries is just one of the many examples how Tibetan Govt is abusive in their control of their people.
Does anyone have any ideas why the Tibetan Govt would keep Trijang Rinpoche & Gaden Trisur's throne still in Gaden's prayer hall? Trijang Rinpoche and Gaden Trisur have not sworn in to renounce Shugden and left for Shar Gaden. By right anything related to them should be removed. So why is it not removed?
Trijang Rinpoche has already disrobed himself to lay low to continue his DS practice and do not want his followers to contact him, Trijang Rinpoche showed his respect to HHDL in this way and yet without giving up his DS practice. Gaden Trisur shocked the world and made a big move to Shar Gaden after his term as the 101th Gaden throne holder, during his term, I am sure he quietly continued his practice without showing any disrespect to HHDL.
So it is pretty obvious to everyone, including the monks in Gaden Monastery that these two high lamas are both Shugden practitioners. The fact that their throne are still intact in the monastery speaks volumn. Why would TGIE allow this when normal monks who are DS practitioners are ostracized and ill treated?
Yes, like everyone has mentioned.....CONTRADICTION!!!
But why the contradiction??? I think it is very clear. that HHDL wants to pave the way for Shugden practice to come back after he passes away. And the most qualified masters and high lamas holding this lineage would be the current incarnation of Trijang Rinpoche and the 101th Gaden Tripa.
I do believe, things are unfolding slowly and the political power of TGIE would be watered off slowly. The throne holder will take back their rightful power in the monastery.
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TGIE is slapping on their own face again. Since they hate DS so much, since DS is so evil why don't they just remove both of the great DS practitioner's throne from the most holy Gaden ? And announce to the World: We are 100% pure and holy.
Went to Shartse last year, it's very sad that to see H.H. Trijang Dorje Chang and 101th Gaden Trisur's throne been left on the side on the grand hall and not even one khata has been offered on it. Basically, the monastery dare not do anything "Grand" to the throne because they need to remain clean and have nothing to do with any DS practitioner. In the other hand, they also need to accept both of this "evil" masters is the most holy and enlighten great master.
Even if TGIE or monastery really want to remove both of the master's throne in the future, will they able to remove Trijang Rinpoche's stupa right in front of Shartse main gate? If they do, this will be the biggest joke in the Buddhism history.
Since we can't change the history that Trijang Rinpoche is H.H. Dalai Lama's guru, and it's "not so intelligent" to remove both of the great master's throne from the main hall, can we at least treat it as a high lama's throne? Can monastery side treat them as a high lama, and they really are.
It looks really bad and arrogant that we didn't take good care of our lama's belongings. Since they can't remove both of the master's throne out from the main hall, at least do some offering on the throne, it will makes the situation not so ugly.
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Gaden Monastery wanted to permanently remove the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche from their Main prayer hall as Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden. In a surprise and shocking move, the Tibetan Govt intervened and ordered the throne to remain in Gaden and not be removed. This added to the confusion as all Shugden practitioners of any rank must be removed from Gaden, Sera and Drepung. So why still keep his throne in Gaden 'reminding' everyone of Trijang Rinpoche's presence?
OMG, there is so much greed for power in whoever is behind the plan to permanently remove the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche from the main prayer hall of Ganden. What has Trijang Rinpoche done "wrong" except to practise Dorje Shugden, a protector given to him by his Guru? This is betrayal at the ultimate level considering what Trijang Rinpoche has done for Tibetan Buddhism in general and the Gelugpa tradition in particular.
It is crystal clear that whomever is behind the plan is all out for power and to be in the good books of the Dalai Lama. Interestingly, even the Dalai Lama would not go to the extent of removing his own Guru throne from the monastery. It is sad that people can resort to such betrayal to gain power and protect themselves.
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The previous trijang rinpoche was the spiritual heir to Pabongka Lamas' teachings. Pabongka Lama is reknown for teaching thousands of people and even teaching the lamrim to lay people. So Pabongka Rinpoche is truly a dharma hero.
And now we want to persecute the trijang rinpoche whose past incarnation was able to hold all the teachings his lama Pabongka Lama could bestow to him.
Something is really wrong in this picture!
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It is sad to know that Gaden Monastery wanted to remove Trijang Rinpoche's throne permanently. It has made a mockery of the function of the throne in the monastery. Does the Gaden Monastery's authority not know the importance of keeping the throne? They had shown tremendous amount of disrespect to Trijang Rinpoche whose current incarnation is living outside of the monastery.
Gaden Monastery has lost its independence and control by adopting the ban on Dorje Shugden in Gaden Monastery and removal of Trijang Rinpoche's throne etc.
It is indeed contradictory in the TGIE's action to intervene and stop the removal of the throne! I think the TGIE is paving the way for Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden’s practice to return to Gaden Monastery!
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Gaden Monastery wanted to permanently remove the throne of Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche from their Main prayer hall as Trijang Rinpoche continues to practice Dorje Shugden. In a surprise and shocking move, the Tibetan Govt intervened and ordered the throne to remain in Gaden and not be removed.
I find this rather peculiar. Fine that Gaden wants to follow the Dalai Lama's edict. The TGIE intervenes? TGIE would only intervene on the Dalai Lama's instruction. So the Dalai Lama WANTS HH Trijang Rinpoche's throne to remain in Gaden.. despite no offerings on it (which i suspect is an interpretation from Gaden rather than an instruction from above). It's all so contradictory but i see the message is that the Dalai Lama wants us to think.
Trijang Ladrang has moved to Shar Gaden. It's obvious where Trijang Rinpoche's affiliations lie. Yet the Dalai Lama does not permit the removal of the throne. Some clues to make the Shugden naysayers think, perhaps.
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Take note: HH Dalai Lama is currently in Washington for 12 days. Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche is not attending again. Whatever events large and small HHDL has, Trijang Rinpoche never attends. Trijang Rinpoche is the reincarnation of the current Dalai Lama's root teacher/guru. Yet because of the Shugden ban, Trijang Rinpoche does not attend any events by Dalai Lama. Trijang Rinpoche resides permanently in Vermont, USA. This is truly an awkward situation.
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Well here's the thing, if Trijang Rinpoche were ever to attend HHDL teachings it would put HHDL under the spotlight as His Holiness would have to say something either way.
HHDL doesn't say anthing then a known Shugden Practitioner is able to attend HHDL teachings.
If HHDL does say something then it would be to show what HHDL meant by instructing thrones to remain, and the allowance of Trijang Rinpoche to continue practicing.
It would be very interesting indeed if Trijang Rinpoche showed up for teachings.
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The fact that HH Trijang Rinpoche stays away, keeps a low profile and is taking a lay role shows the reverence and respect he has for the Dalai Lama. HH Trijang Rinpoche could easily attend the Dalai Lama's teaching and force the Dalai Lama to react. As you said - whatever reaction the Dalai Lama makes will have an impact. Yet Trijang Rinpoche remains quietly practising in the background.
To me, it shows the spectacular calibre of HH Trijang Rinpoche and an example all of us can emulate.
Perhaps this is why Trijang Rinpoche's throne is quietly left in place in Gaden.
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Knowing that H.H. Trijang Rinpoche's seat still remains in Gaden Prayer Hall and that the Tibetan Govt themselves said it should not be removed tells us that there is still much respect given to Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche which also contradicts their move against Dorje Shugden practitioners.
It shows that all the TGIE cares about is politics not about their people or the spiritual paths of their people, and uses Dorje Shugden as a way to go against the Chinese Govt. I think this is because of TGIE's silly narrow mindedness that DS practitioners, Lama and monasteries are funded and supported by the Chinese?
The only thing positive is that there is still some kind of respect, perhaps it was not approved by the Dalai Lama. Whoever who wanted to initially removed it sure speaks volumes of his character. How sad that Dharma is being poluted to serve their own greed and how easily betrayal can arise from power and greed. This is truly sad. But I am glad Trijang Rinpoche's throne remains!
Wish there was a picture we can put up here.
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The fact that HH Trijang Rinpoche stays away, keeps a low profile and is taking a lay role shows the reverence and respect he has for the Dalai Lama. HH Trijang Rinpoche could easily attend the Dalai Lama's teaching and force the Dalai Lama to react. As you said - whatever reaction the Dalai Lama makes will have an impact. Yet Trijang Rinpoche remains quietly practising in the background.
To me, it shows the spectacular calibre of HH Trijang Rinpoche and an example all of us can emulate.
Perhaps this is why Trijang Rinpoche's throne is quietly left in place in Gaden.
Trijang Rinpoche had prophesied that DS would flourish.
By not putting Dalai Lama in the spot light but instead showing reverence and respect quietly while TGIE on the other hand, had left Trijang Rinpoche's throne at Gaden shows how these high Masters are working together to spread DS, the most efficacious Protector at this degenerate time.
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How ironic???
The ban which has been going on so strongly and TGIE wants to remain H.H Trijang Rinpoche's throne in Gaden left untouched and abandoned. Why not remove it?
Yes, just like what everyone had said. His Holiness might be behind TGIE not wanting the throne to be removed, this showed great guru devotion. On the other hand, Trijang Rinpoche had showed the greatest respect to His Holiness because he has every right to come out since he is well known Dorje Shugden practitioner.
So i am very happy that the throne remained. Wherever the throne is, it is for the lama to return, to stay. This only means His Holiness is expecting the return of HH Trijang Rinpoche, and Dorje Shugden will be taking the center stage. I rejoice. :)
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Let us see here about the consequences of removing Trijang Rinpoche's throne from Ganden. It would basically mean that HHDL cast off his own Guru and that would be an extremely bad example for everyone to follow. HHDL has made his point very clear about Trijang Rinpoche: That he is still a Buddha and is to be respected by everyone, but him worshipping Dorje Shugden is wrong, and that we are allowed to see our Gurus as people who make mistakes. But, this position does not make much sense to me: If the Guru can be wrong in one aspect, does it not open the doors to the fact that the Guru can also get other things wrong? If the Guru can get other things wrong, then what is the point of Guru devotion anymore? In other words, Ganden removing Trijang Rinpoche's throne would have an implication that they do not respect their lineage lamas and this would be extremely bad. The orders from the CTA were probably made by the Dalai Lama to not remove the throne...but I am confused: why remove the throne when it is bad to forget about the lineage lamas? Why is there such a need to placate the Dalai Lama so much....? That's not Guru devotion and that is not Dharma practice.
But I am glad that they did not remove the throne. If they did, it would mean that they are not Gelug anymore.
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This is the Pandora's Box that has been opened by the ban, if one guru is wrong due to certain beliefs or views then which guru is safe from criticism? Aren't all gurus of the Tibetan then subject to doubt, then where does the buck stop. Dorje Shugden has been practiced since the time of the Dalai Lama so all the lamas who engaged in the practice are deluded in their views?
Zong Rinpoche, Domo Geshe Rinpoche amongst all the great Gelug are all deluded and don't know what they are doing? Trijang Rinpoche's throne not removed by the CTA/TGIE should be a hint for many of the people out there of the many inconsistencies that is prevalent in the ban and should make us think deeper about this issue.
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I wonder when all this charade will end - quite soon I heard. So many contradictions. But it's pretty entertaining though just like a drama with all its intrigue. The lead actors are all real pro playing out the characters as per the script written for the play. In this play the lead actors are also the director, producer, and script writer.
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This is one of the most exciting topic on the forum actually.
Who wants to have the throne of Trijang Rinpoche removed?
Who wants it to remain?
The answers are ever so more confusing indeed????
At least confusing in appearance that is!
Are the key people at CTA Shugden practitioners? Are they disciples of Trijang Rinpoche? Have they kept a Guru devotion from parents to children?
Maybe the Dalai Lama does not want to over-stretch the Guru devotion of Trijang Rinpoche's students?
So many questions...
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I wonder if Tibetan govt officials ever question HHDL aka their boss why he makes contradictory decisions or do they just follow blindly? Or do you think they are all in cahoots, knowing The Truth yet deliberately taking Shugdenpas for a ride and doing the countdown to the day the ban will be lifted? Well, who knows....the whole world is a stage, some just have bigger parts.
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This I have to share with all of you.
When Gaden Shartse broke up into 2 ie Shar Gaden which comprise of majority Dokhang Khamsen (Trijang Rinpoche Khansem), Gaden Shartse refused to give the late Trijang Rinpoche's pair of slippers which is place respectfully in the main Shartse prayer hall to Shar Gaden. After much long debate, the monks then agreed for each monastery to take one side of the slippers. Now, if Trijang Rinpoche practices the demon, why in the world the monks of Shartse wants to keep Rinpoche's slippers????
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This I have to share with all of you.
When Gaden Shartse broke up into 2 ie Shar Gaden which comprise of majority Dokhang Khamsen (Trijang Rinpoche Khansem), Gaden Shartse refused to give the late Trijang Rinpoche's pair of slippers which is place respectfully in the main Shartse prayer hall to Shar Gaden. After much long debate, the monks then agreed for each monastery to take one side of the slippers. Now, if Trijang Rinpoche practices the demon, why in the world the monks of Shartse wants to keep Rinpoche's slippers????
Thank you for your information. I do find it fascinating that Ganden Shartse still thinks of Trijang Rinpoche highly even when they did nothing to stop him from going to the US. They could have very least provided bodyguards for him or do more to beef up the security, the consult the protector again on what to do after that. They could have, but they did not, so Trijang Rinpoche had to leave them. If Ganden Shartse could hold on to the actual incarnation, they wouldnt have to hold on to just a pair of slippers that he has and actually listen to his melodious voice resonating in the prayer halls. In any case, they lost their Guru and there is nothing much they can do about it unless they make requests to Trijang Rinpoche to return, but that is highly unlikely at the moment as they have to be sensitive about the political situation.
My question is this: if they have given up Dorje Shugden and has caused their lama to leave them and allowed him to be exposed to death threats (which are totally unnecessary, by the way), and they go against the Dharma protector he relied on for so many lifetimes, why hold on to his slippers? It is utterly meaningless to old on to them as they went against all that Trijang Rinpoche stood for. So why?
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REMOVE IT. I mean, if your going to bloody chuck his practices out the door, when THATS the most important thing, what does a throne really mean? Its just a bit of wood and paint, if your not going to respect Trijang Rinpoches practices and teachings.
What a farcical show of respect from the CTA. Typical!
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Oh yes, of course that was the right thing to do, CTA chaps.
Keep the throne and keep up the facade of respect for the teacher. Behind the scenes, stab him in the back, condemn his practices, witch hunt his students, throw out his monks, but of course, keep the throne so you don't look bad. That sure is the foundation of guru devotion, isn't it?
What Buddhism are you guys practicing when you dare to crucify one of your own lineage? What attainments do you hope to attain, when you put down the very object of your refuge - your guru? What Buddhism do you think you are protecting, when you choose one political point of view over the other schools of Buddhism?
Is it really a spiritual decision, or a political game to cover your tracks?
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Trijang Rinpoche's throne should be removed from the Gelug institutions such as Sera, Drepung and Ganden. After all he is not a monk anymore and laypersons should not sit above the sangha in Gelug traditions isn't it?
If his throne remains it devalues the significance of the sangha. After all you will not see laypersons sit above sangha in Southeast Asian countries such as Sri Lanka and the likes. Sangha has value over laypersons where true dharma is revered.
I vote Trijang Rinpoche's throne be removed from the monasteries. :(
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Oh yes, of course that was the right thing to do, CTA chaps.
Keep the throne and keep up the facade of respect for the teacher. Behind the scenes, stab him in the back, condemn his practices, witch hunt his students, throw out his monks, but of course, keep the throne so you don't look bad. That sure is the foundation of guru devotion, isn't it?
You are absolutely right, Thor. Why pretend to have Guru devotion and pretend to respect the Lineage Lama when you condemn his practices and deride his root Guru (Pabongkha Rinpoche?) What is the difference between doing that and smearing feces at his throne? None at all. In fact, putting the throne there increases bad karma as they are just practicing hypocrisy and not Dharma.
What Buddhism are you guys practicing when you dare to crucify one of your own lineage? What attainments do you hope to attain, when you put down the very object of your refuge - your guru? What Buddhism do you think you are protecting, when you choose one political point of view over the other schools of Buddhism?
There is in fact, nothing that they have gained. How many new high lamas that are actually about and abroad teaching and nurturing students that come from Ganden, Sera and Drepung? I dont see any. There are the resident Geshes of FPMT centers, but they rarely do anything big and its not on the newspapers...in fact only the previous generation of high Lamas from these monasteries are shining and opening centers everywhere. To me, that is a very clear proof that they have already lost their efficacy and power. No blessings from lineage lamas.
Is it really a spiritual decision, or a political game to cover your tracks?
Putting the throne there is to not offend the Dalai Lama. Dont think its for any spiritual purpose.
I still do find it very sad that this has to happen. Spiritual hypocrisy is still rampant and this will only mean disaster. I hope that these monasteries wake up and do the right thing: either get rid of Trijang Rinpoche's throne, or stand up against the ban and preserve the sanctity of the lineage.
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Trijang Rinpoche's throne should be removed from the Gelug institutions such as Sera, Drepung and Ganden. After all he is not a monk anymore and laypersons should not sit above the sangha in Gelug traditions isn't it?
If his throne remains it devalues the significance of the sangha. After all you will not see laypersons sit above sangha in Southeast Asian countries such as Sri Lanka and the likes. Sangha has value over laypersons where true dharma is revered.
I vote Trijang Rinpoche's throne be removed from the monasteries. :(
Since we believe there are many planets in the universe, what if HH Dalai Lama decides not to take rebirth on this earth again, I wonder if we should also remove HH Dalai Lama's throne from the monastery?
I strongly believe that HH Trijang Rinpoche is not practicing openly because of all the political issues instead of He is giving up, and He will come back when the political issues are settled.
So, KEEP THE THRONE!!
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It is sad to know that Gaden Monastery wanted to remove Trijang Rinpoche's throne permanently. It has made a mockery of the function of the throne in the monastery. Does the Gaden Monastery's authority not know the importance of keeping the throne? They had shown tremendous amount of disrespect to Trijang Rinpoche whose current incarnation is living outside of the monastery.
Gaden Monastery has lost its independence and control by adopting the ban on Dorje Shugden in Gaden Monastery and removal of Trijang Rinpoche's throne etc.
It is indeed contradictory in the TGIE's action to intervene and stop the removal of the throne! I think the TGIE is paving the way for Trijang Rinpoche and Dorje Shugden’s practice to return to Gaden Monastery!
I think the 'Gaden authority', the current abbot has a big say in this. Unless he has been so busy traveling to whatever countries and doing whatever. Still, if he was so 'busy', surely he gets reports of Gaden Monastery's admin and operations. I do not think that such a big thing would not have gotten the approval from the abbot.
Why Dharamsala stopped the removal of the throne is amusing. After all it's just a throne (that's what the authority of Gaden monastery think) that is currently not used by the current HH Trijang Rinpoche (who obviously does not garner the respect of Gaden authority) and who was allowed by HHDL to continue with the harmful practice.
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Now it seems there are really 'bigger scene behind the current scene". i hope it will be revealed very soon and get the everything in place. No more confusion and hatred, jealousy among the tibetan buddhist community. Appreciates the effort of The Great King of Dharma Manjunatha Tsongkhapa on one of his great deeds the Monlam festival....Buddhist must stay in unity inorder for Buddhadharma to flourish, it doesnt matter is its of any tradition but most importantly is the authenticity of the teachings.
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I think the 'Gaden authority', the current abbot has a big say in this. Unless he has been so busy traveling to whatever countries and doing whatever. Still, if he was so 'busy', surely he gets reports of Gaden Monastery's admin and operations. I do not think that such a big thing would not have gotten the approval from the abbot.
Why Dharamsala stopped the removal of the throne is amusing. After all it's just a throne (that's what the authority of Gaden monastery think) that is currently not used by the current HH Trijang Rinpoche (who obviously does not garner the respect of Gaden authority) and who was allowed by HHDL to continue with the harmful practice.
If people lose the significance of having a Dharma throne, then whether or not a throne is there makes no difference. Even if it was there it would be nothing but a decoration piece. It would just be another furniture in the monastery with no significance. If the government has to intervene in matters that should lie within the hands of the abbot, then what use is there, using the texts and traditions that the particular Lama has taught? Why go against a lineage lama or deny him out of the lineage Guru prayers? If a lineage lama can be removed from the Guru tree, or from the dedication prayers, can the rest be done for the other lineage lamas who we do not agree to as well? Then what is the use and why are the lineage lamas still scared?
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Why keep Trijang Rinpoche's throne and stupa in Gaden when there is a complete disrespect in his practise. Why have an object of refuge and respect in the prayer hall but shun the one thing that Trijang Rinpoche kept at such high regard and propritiated all his life - Dorje Shugden. If they keep this throne, that means that there is still respect for Trijang Rinpoche, and they should respect all that Trijang Rinpoche practised. Having the throne there is to create causes for Trijang Rinpoche to return. Therefore, if there is no respect for Dorje Shugden and all the lamas that rely and propriate Dorje Shugden, there is no need to take refuge in that lama or keep his throne . So why keep the throne? Such contradiction between words and actions.
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Why keep Trijang Rinpoche's throne and stupa in Gaden when there is a complete disrespect in his practise. Why have an object of refuge and respect in the prayer hall but shun the one thing that Trijang Rinpoche kept at such high regard and propritiated all his life - Dorje Shugden. If they keep this throne, that means that there is still respect for Trijang Rinpoche, and they should respect all that Trijang Rinpoche practised. Having the throne there is to create causes for Trijang Rinpoche to return. Therefore, if there is no respect for Dorje Shugden and all the lamas that rely and propriate Dorje Shugden, there is no need to take refuge in that lama or keep his throne . So why keep the throne? Such contradiction between words and actions.
AGREED! Look we cannot say we believe and respect Trijang Rinpoche and on the other hand we say "He is wrong"... how can he be right in every other practice and wrong in one? That just basically degrades the whole Guru system which is so well preserved since Lord Buddha's time. That is like saying all Guru's are wrong too because they were taught by someone and is passing down their knowledge to their students. Hence it makes no sense... so if this Guru is wrong, so many of his disciples is wrong too and they've passed on wrong teachings to their students... so basically might as well stop all practices because no attainments can be gained if the teachings are wrong or bad right? So why bother have a wrong "Guru" throne in Monastery?
It just goes to show the illogicality of this whole made up Ban that has no substance when you look at it deeper and question it. Only uneducated people who do not know more and those who are like sheep minded supporters would swallow such an illogical ban! Sorry but this is the obvious fact.
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It is a subtle (or rather not so subtle) hint that the decision of keeping Trijang Rinpoche's throne in Gaden monastery is that the ban on practising Dorje Shugden is just a mere ploy and is of a major plot behind such a ban. The Dalai Lama banned everybody from continuing the practice of Dorje Shugden except his Guru Trijang Rinpoche. Why?
Well we can say that in respect of Trijang Rinpoche as a guru of Dalai Lama, that is why Trijang Rinpoche's throne haven't been removed away from Gaden Monastery. But if practising the banned and so called worshiping spirit practice can shorten Dalai Lama's life, will it be possible the Guru would not be able to see it? Will the Guru still want to continue the practice to harm his student? Why would the Dalai Lama still let Trijang Rinpoche continue to practice it? Ok, so its a ploy then...
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Its funny when they want to assassinate Trijang Rinpoche while he is in Ganden, but keep his throne in Ganden because its as if they are hoping to kill off the real incarnation and pick the incarnation that is politically correct like they did with some tulkus such as Domo Geshe which we all know what happened. Then when the actual incarnation migrates to the US, and still completes his monastic education as a layman and is equally as powerful as his predecessor, Ganden does not invite him back but places an empty throne for him. So what does that empty throne stand for? "look at our religious hypocrisy"?
why not just invite Trijang Rinpoche back to Ganden? He has already said he is on the fence regarding the Shugden issue, so what are you waiting for?