About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: maryjane on February 04, 2008, 03:03:05 AM

Title: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: maryjane on February 04, 2008, 03:03:05 AM
As the date for the final collection of votes on the 'practice' of Dorje Shugden approaches in South India, we must protest the voting and call for it to be nullified as it is illegal.There is just cause for this to NOT have reached the ballot box.Please start a letter writing campaign and send (via email, fax, phone calls etc.) to the Tibetan Govt. and its affiliates @ and click on 'address'. Time is of the essence. Here is a sample letter:

To Whom it May Concern,

I/We protest the voting in the monasteries in South India for the following reasons:

1. Right to freedom of religion.This is a fundamental right with which no govt., individual or group can interfere.

2. Right to Freedom of choice. Another
fundamental right with which no govt., individual or group shall interfere.

This issue should have never reached the ballot box.  Both these fundamental rights have been infringed upon and we call for an immediate nullification of the votes.

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: a friend on February 04, 2008, 03:26:50 AM
Dearest Maryjane,

May I point to you that the letter you are kindly offering almost supports the Dalai Lama´s actions. If you invoke the right to freedom of religion then they can answer what the DL already said, that he is not forcing anybody, it's the monks that are voting. If you invoke the right to freedom of choice, they will answer that the monks are choosing with whom to share their religious life.

So to send such letter ... and to the Tibetan Government!!! ...well, let´s say that it´s not going to produce any discernible fruit.

If you want to "shake" the Tibetan Government ... then you should inondate them with letters that contain most excellent reasons, exposed in a detailed manner, and suggesting that copies are being sent to the great newspapers of the world, and to the small too.

Why don´t you try again? This website contains all the material needed for a great, powerful letter. Sorry, for several great, powerful letters.

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: mountains on February 04, 2008, 12:40:41 PM
Dear 'A friend',

I agree with you. The Tibetan Government in Exile in India and its representative offices around the world must be inundated with physical letters, emails and phone calls. These peaceful letters/phone calls must contain details which this website is rich in. The human rights and freedom to religion issue will not hold water with them because after ten years of fear tactic campaigns, outwardly the monks are told it is freedom to pick in the referendum, but actually they have a 'gun' pointed at their heads to pick the 'yellow' sticks.

The Tibetan offices throughout the world must be inundated with letters. Also the Monastic offices of

Sera Mey
Sera Je
Gaden Shartse
Gaden Jangtse
Drepung Gomang
Drepung Loseling
Tashi Lunpo-South India
Namgyal Monastery-Dharamsala
Sera Mey-Pomra Khangtsen
Gaden Shartse-Dhokhang khangtsen
Dorje Shugden Charitable Society-new Delhi
Tibet House New York
Trijang Intstitute -USA

Even Celebrities who are involved with Tibetan Buddhim to raise awareness within them:

Richard Gere
Keanu Reeves
Steven Seagall
Oprah Winfrey (very important to bring to her attention)
Larry King
Prince Andrew of UK
Former VP Al Gore


Glenn Mullin
Professor Jeffry Hopkins
Robert Thurman

Publishing Houses:

Snow Lion

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: jeff Ryan on February 04, 2008, 02:59:45 PM

Future of Dalai Lama Seminar in New York
Phayul[Monday, February 04, 2008 16:51]
Dharamsala, February 4: A seminar on “The Future of Dalai Lamas and Tibetan Democracy” is to be held on Sunday, February 10, 2008 at Tibet House, 22 W 15th St., New York.

Robert F. Thurman, director of Tibet House, Elliot Sperling, Professor of Tibetan Studies in the Department of Central Eurasian Studies at Indiana University and Jamyang Norbu, award winning writer and author of a recent article on this subject “The Jewel in the Ballot Box: Electing a New Dalai Lama" will be the main speakers.

The discussion is to be moderated by Wangchuk Shakabpa.

Rangzen Alliance, Students for a Free Tibet, US Tibet Committee and Tibet House are organising the seminar, which will be open for public participation.

The organisers hope that the seminar will “contribute to opening up a greater national debate on this most vital development in the future of Tibet and the Tibetan people”.

During the seminar, the North American edition of Jamyang Norbu’s SHADOW TIBET: Selected Writings 1989 to 2004 will be released.

Following is the press release of the seminar


Sunday, February 10th at 5:30pm; Tibet House, 22 W 15th St., New York

? Robert F. Thurman, Director of Tibet House and international authority on Tibetan Buddhism
? Elliot Sperling, Professor of Tibetan Studies in the Department of Central Eurasian Studies at Indiana University and a specialist on Sino-Tibetan relations.
? Jamyang Norbu, award winning writer and author of a recent article on this subject “The Jewel in the Ballot Box: Electing a New Dalai Lama".

Wangchuk Shakabpa will moderate the discussion.
All Tibetans and friends are aware of His Holiness’s recent statements proposing new and untraditional methods by which a future incarnation of the Dalai Lama might be chosen. It is most likely that the Dalai Lama offered these proposals as a response to Chinese government announcements of new rules regulating the incarnation process of Tibetan lamas that appear to be aimed at controlling the selection of the next Dalai Lama. These statements by His Holiness in addition to his announcement in May of 2007, of his desire to move into “retirement”, has greatly troubled Tibetan society.

Despite the tremendous concerns and fears of the Tibetan people there has been little public discussion on these happenings within Tibetan society. A small inaugural seminar THE FUTURE OF THE DALAI LAMAS AND TIBETAN DEMOCRACY is proposed for February 10th 2008, 5:30pm, at Tibet House in New York City. It is hoped that this will contribute to opening up a greater national debate on this most vital development in the future of Tibet and the Tibetan people.

All are welcome to participate in the discussion.

Organized by Rangzen Alliance, Students for a Free Tibet, US Tibet Committee and Tibet House

The North American edition of Jamyang Norbu’s SHADOW TIBET: Selected Writings 1989 to 2004 will be released on the occasion.
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: a friend on February 04, 2008, 10:54:41 PM

I don´t know about that, Jeff.

The Dorje Shugden Tibetan devotees of New York do not master English well, what are they going to do in Tibet House?

If they try to make a demonstration, although pacific, be sure that they have already everything in place to chastise and humiliate them. You can be sure of that.




I fear they might be praying that the Dorje Shugden people show up .... 


Please let's not push Tibetans to do things that they will regret. They can be expelled from this country, so they would be risking too much. And these other people have all mundane powers in their hands. I don't want to send the Tibetans like lambs to be butchered.

Sorry, Jeff, it sounds harsh what I am saying, but I've seen too much suffering already, I'm trying to prevent more pain and particularly more pain for nothing.

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: maryjane on February 05, 2008, 04:44:30 AM
Mr. Jeff Ryan,

What a wonderful idea.  Thank you for the heads up.  This seminar is a wonderful venue with talks on Tibetan democracy.   Let us not be discouraged by 'naysayers'. 

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: NYTibetan on February 05, 2008, 04:54:07 AM
Your postings have a common theme that conveys a message of staying away from protests, away from governmental organizations and now away from a seminar where there may be a chance for a message to be relayed.  Makes me wonder if your input is really to create paranoia and prevent Tibetans from fighting for what they believe in. You repeatedly point out the chances of deportation and other consequences. Now you talk about Tibetans who speak inadequate English. Please note that this seminar is about a "Tibetan issue" and it is important that our voices gets heard. It would be good if our material gets to people attending the seminar. You also talk as though you know what is best for Tibetans in NY what you do not know or understand is the importance of this issue to us. Are you really a friend or a Wolf dressed in Sheep’s clothing?
Title: From a friendly wolf
Post by: a friend on February 05, 2008, 05:44:38 AM
Dearest friend, whoever you are,

I understand your feelings. But I will keep giving the same advice: no demonstrations in the streets. Yes, I definitely fear any juridical figure, call it deportation or whatever, that can send Tibetans back to the Dalai Lama´s India or to Tibet against their will. And you should know that the Dalai Lama´s people do not hesitate to accuse the Protector´s devotees of the most heinous crimes. Just ask those who know all the things that happened since the problem started, you don't want to face such a huge enemy. It´s too risky, too unfair. For the Tibetans, I mean. For us Westerners it's very easy to give advice, go do this go do that, we don´t have to suffer like the Tibetans have suffered and still have to suffer, at the hands of a cruel government in exile, at the hands of communities that choose to trample their own fellow Tibetans to please their leader.

Forget the streets. They don´t have the slightest chance in any public event organized by the other side. What do you think? That they are going to allow them to talk freely for more than 30 seconds in that seminar? As soon as those people understand that they are trying to explain their case against the actions of the Dalai Lama they are going to be silenced, guaranteed.

I was thinking, though, that may be some courageous person, preferably an American or a couple of Americans that are "street wise" and have some experience in dealing with this type of things, might go to that seminar and very nicely and discreetly try to circulate one of the good letters that have been posted in this website.

Among the audience you might be able to find some individual, may be only one, who knows, that will read it with an independent mind.

This is just a thought, others might have other ideas.

But I am adamant in my advice to the Tibetans: do not go to the streets, do not go to places where you can be accused, mistreated, you don't need that, it would not help your cause, you risk too much.

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: NYTibetan on February 05, 2008, 06:50:03 AM

Do not use this forum to feed fear and spread paranoia. You "talk" about having age and experience yet you know not what it means to be Tibetan. You "talk" about knowing people who have sufferred the wrath of the Dalai Lama and his government, we have experieced it.
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: a friend on February 05, 2008, 03:52:45 PM
Go ahead and do whatever pleases your person.

But if you have any influence among Tibetans, be very aware of the risks you might push them to undergo.

And, dear Tibetan, please do not confuse things: don't tell your friend about feeding fear and spread paranoia, you know who has done that. It's your government in exile, it's your own communities.

And I insist, to all the rest of Tibetans: do not take to the streets! Even if you have green cards, they can be revoked. You know your own government in exile. You know how it spreads false accusations against the Protector's people. So don't give it the opportunity to attack you.

Anyway, whatever you do, be careful, please!

Your friendly wolf
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: Alexis on February 06, 2008, 04:39:33 AM
DS practitionners have already been branded, by the Gov. in Exile propaganda machine, as:

1) Talibans of buddhism (extremists)

2) Working for Chinese Gov (chinese spies)

3) Murderer cultists (criminals)

In the post 9/11 United-States, it's very easy for the Tib. Gov. in Exile to sell DS practitionners as terrorists-extremists to NY city and US officials. They probably did already in expectation of the protests!

If this is so, then what could be the reaction of the authorities faced with so called 'Tibetan extremists' possibly 'working undercover for China', some of them even 'ready to commit murder'?

You would probably be handled very, very unfairly to say the least!

The Tib. Gov. in exile is not a democracy and there are very, very smart people working for them.
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: beggar on February 06, 2008, 09:08:40 AM
Dear friends everywhere,

Whatever we do or say, may it come from a mind not separate from the holy Dharma, otherwise the benefits will be non-existent, shallow or short-lived.
As every moment can be our last, may and i all like me remember the words of the great Most Venerable Geshe Ngawang Dhargyey about our precious human birth and the incredibly rare precious opportunity of meeting the Dharma.

yours, beggar

Turning the Wheel of the Dharma
Gen Rinpoche's (The Most Venerable Geshe Ngawang Dhargyey) Last Formal Teaching

Given in the morning of Thursday, 2 February 1995, this was Gen Rinpoche's last teaching in the Gompa. Gen Rinpoche himself decided to teach that morning and because the teaching was unscheduled the only people present were four of the Sangha who happened to be there at the time. There was a strong sense, however, that Gen Rinpoche was addressing everyone. Though by this time Gen Rinpoche's body was very weak, his mind was as sharp as ever and his message as direct. The teaching was orally translated by Ven. Sönam Tenzin. (c) Copyright Dhargyey Buddhist Centre.

I have said many times that there is no difference between the speech of the Protector Nagarjuna, and the speech of the Buddha.

Nagarjuna says in one verse that of all the kinds of wealth, the wealth of contentment is the best. Even if you have no material wealth you are wealthy when you have contentment. With contentment you have the absolute, perfect, supreme wealth. So what these lines say is extremely important.

What does contentment mean? Contentment comes with being satisfied with what one has. It means that whatever one has, one thinks, "This is enough, this is sufficient for me." One doesn't feel that one has to accumulate many things, or have things of extremely good quality. If one has contentment one doesn't have those kinds of grasping feeling.

In general we should think about how extremely fortunate we are. Even though we do not have a lot of jewels decorating our heads and bodies as nagas do, we have a precious human rebirth which has the eight leisures and ten good-fortunes. Because we have these eight leisures and ten fortunes we have the opportunity to practise dharma. In this we are more fortunate than nagas who, though they have jewels, do not have the eight leisures and ten fortunes, so cannot practise dharma properly. Thus we are extremely fortunate -- much more fortunate than most beings. Because of the kindness of our teachers and the three jewels, we have obtained a precious human rebirth and so we can practise well.

It is also said of nagas that the more jewels they have attached to their heads, the more suffering they have in their bodies due to carrying those jewels. And of course they also have the suffering of losing their jewels or having them stolen. This shows us that those sorts of jewels are of no use.

The Teacher of Gods and Men declared that being satisfied
Was the greatest of all riches. Remain
Satisfied always. One knowing satisfaction is
Truly wealthy, even without material possessions.

Gentle Sir! Those having few desires
Lack the misery of those with many possessions.
However many the heads of the foremost nagas,
Just so is the misery obtained from them.

Nagarjuna, Friendly Letter

Though we, as ordained practitioners, do not have those sorts of jewels, we do have the precious eight leisure-jewels and ten freedom-jewels, so we are extremely rich in the necessities for practising dharma. We should remember how fortunate we are, and even as we are walking around we should collect manis etc, and do as much practice as we can. We will never have better conditions than these to practice dharma: these are the best possible conditions. Even celestial beings do not have conditions as good as ours, because they do not have teachers to teach them dharma. They do not have the sort of circumstances which are available to us.

So the essence of that first verse about contentment is that if one has contentment then even if one does not have worldly wealth one has absolute or supreme wealth. Contentment is a really wonderful thing in that even if one has just a little bit of money one thinks, "This is wonderful, I've got this money!" But without contentment it doesn't matter how much money one has -- whether one has $100 or $1,000 or $100,000 one always wants more; one is always dissatisfied with what one has.

That is Nagarjuna's teaching. We should listen well to Nagarjuna's teaching because it is really no different from the Buddha's. I have taught you the entire Friendly Letter, and I want you to remember it well. It is a very great teaching, so you should never allow yourself to forget it. It is also very beautiful to listen to and pleasant to read -- especially the verse that says if you have contentment you have absolute wealth. Those lines are lovely to listen to, especially in Tibetan*. All the verses are like that -- beautiful to listen to.

If, when having found leisure such as this,
I do not attune myself to what is wholesome,
There could be no greater deception
And there could be no greater folly.

If the arising of a Tathagata,
Faith, the attainment of a human body
And my being fit to cultivate virtue are scarce,
When will they be won again?

Shantideva, A Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way of Life.

Shantideva said that if one has a precious human rebirth and does not take the virtuous steps forward, there is nothing more shameful than that. There is nothing more wasteful than not engaging in virtue while one has a precious human rebirth.

We should take Milarepa as our example. He had no jewels -- in fact he didn't even have any tsampa to eat -- yet because he had a complete, precious human rebirth and used it wisely, he was able to attain enlightenment in that one lifetime. But nagas, who have jewels all over their heads and sometimes all over their bodies as well, do not have a precious human rebirth so they cannot give meaning to their life as an animal, and they cannot generate a human rebirth. They probably cannot even generate an animal rebirth -- they have nothing but bodily suffering from all those jewels.

Having a precious human rebirth is not something that happens all the time, but just this once. So, since you have the possibility for great happiness, thinking in the correct way take the essence of your precious human rebirth. If you just put it off until tomorrow or the day after, you will end up empty-handed, not having collected any merit.

It is incredibly hard to meet with a human rebirth that has dharma, so don't waste it. Try as hard as you can to practise. There may be many billions of people in the world, but the number of them who meet with Buddhist teachings is very small. You might think that it is easy and commonplace to meet with Buddhist teachings, but it is not.

We can look into our own minds to see whether we will get a precious human rebirth in the next life. If we find we are only partially keeping our vows and commitments there is not much hope for us. Only a crazy person would say that someone who keeps their vows and commitments poorly will have the chance of a human rebirth. On the other hand, if we keep our vows and commitments carefully, as carefully as we would protect our most valuable possession or our own life, then we have a chance.

It would be very strange to think that we could get a precious human rebirth in the next life while wasting this life not practising properly and not keeping our vows carefully. It would be the same as a farmer who sowed any old grass seed in the spring, and in autumn expected to have a harvest of edible grain.

As soon as you have heard teachings you should immediately apply them to your practice. This is excellent advice.

*nor nam kün gyi nang nä chok she pa
rab chok leg pa lha mäi tön päi sung
kun tu chog she tsö chig chok kyen na
nor mi dog kyang yang dag jor pa lag
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: Alexis on February 06, 2008, 01:00:01 PM
Beggar my friend,

Let's not mix Dharma and politics.

The title of this thread is 'Campaign to nullify votes'.

Please preserve the blessings of this teaching by securing it in a new thread. Otherwise, the dirt of worldly affairs might come to stain Gen. Rimpoche last teaching.

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: beggar on February 06, 2008, 03:27:21 PM
If we mix Dharma and politics we have already lost, and it begins here, calling one of our long standing devoted contributors wolf in a sheep's skin, when it would suffice to read some of his posts to see how sincere she or he is. It's not about agreeing or disagreeing, it's how we do it. Are we digging ditches or building bridges?

Dependent origination, interconnectedness goes all the way, no exception, let's face it or keep pissing in the wind and search for a new enemy when impermanence has taken the favorite of the day.

Karma manifests as suffering of 'Tibetan' oppression, sickness oppression, poverty oppression, rape oppression, loneliness oppression - what's the difference? Before we go to the animal preta hell realm, may we remember the unique chances we are given as humans with intact faculties and teachings available.

Unite is unite is unite is unite...                   Divide is...
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: Alexis on February 06, 2008, 03:33:52 PM

It was not clear you were refering to that (wolf in sheep's clothing).

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: light on February 06, 2008, 06:35:43 PM
to a friend.
Dont be scare your own shadow, all goods source begin with this risk without risk life is not so intrestenting. Who knows tomorrow, today they show us and may be tomorrow???????????????? look back on history when you are going too far advance. I understand your concern but we have to do something to makes out, if not there has no voice, if there no voice then where is the democarcy? Please continue your key advise for them.

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: lobby on February 06, 2008, 07:10:16 PM
I agree with the views of "a friend" and being a concerned Tibetan would advice to abstain from such activities, that would do us more harm than good.  I would rather suggest that we be patient and keep writing letters to different people (in the media, newpersons, college professors etc.). People, the need of the hour is perseverance.
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: beggar on February 06, 2008, 07:53:26 PM
Dear friends,

demonstrating, participating in public events and so on can maybe be a good or necessary thing; i  don't know. Maybe the dangers involved for individuals and the potential fresh food for those who are just waiting to point at the 'fanatics' are worth it; i don't know.

It all depends if our motivation is guided by concern, care, wisdom - if it is then maybe the short term results may not look good but it will help in the long run; we can't know for sure.

But if we act from anger we have already defeated ourselves before the action, and this we know for sure.

I think it would be very important for us here to remember that harmful actions come from confused states of mind, not from evil inherently existent entities. This is the great hope for all of us that the Buddha's teachings bring. Confusion can be cleared, lucky us!

So to point out the power politics of an institution and striving to show a deeper truth is one thing, and to give up love for any being and bodhicitta is another, namely braking our most sacred tantric and bodhisattva vows.

Our dear 'a friend' has been foremost in encouraging and supplying addresses for informational letter campains, something which is very much an action that helps raising awareness, is safe and allows us to formulate distinguished reasoning, and i'd like to express my gratitude here and encourage all to keep on or start writing in.

Whatever you do, all my best wishes and please take care, not because you are worried about yourself but because you care about the bigger picture - unity includes all.

Yours, beggar

Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: maryjane on February 06, 2008, 11:27:46 PM
Thank you for all the cautions and warnings out of profound motivation for all sentient beings. Hopefully people have started writing letters or doing something about what's going on in South India and the referendum that is splitting up the monks and their community. Doing something to raise awareness by peaceful means is better than doing nothing. Being motivated and  fearless is the key. Fear can immobilize and paralize. It may be this exact tactic that the Tibetan govt.and it's smart people use to conform people. All the feedback is appreciated and great. Let's be fearless everyone. Now is the time to DO something besides exchanging opinions.
Title: Re: Campaign to nullify votes
Post by: mountains on February 07, 2008, 12:39:58 AM
Dear Maryjane,

I fully agree with your statements. And I am definitely writing and sending.

Let's everyone do it.  Thank you all.