dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Roberto on February 07, 2011, 02:32:07 AM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_VLgXe97hw
I watched this before and saw that at the begininng around 0.29secs, the oracle is sitting infront of the altar. What is the process of taking trance?
I mean, the oracle doesn't just come in put on the clothes then sit on the throne waiting for something to happen. Is it a special occasion that the oracle takes trance, or is it like a department of the monastery that serves the public and sangha in providing answers to tough questions?
I'm sure somebody here has attended a trance session.
Please share :)
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Prior to Official Recoginition as Oracle:
The Training of the selected individual.
1. Migtseyma full length retreat (extensive form) minimum 1,000,000 mantras.
2. Full lengh Yamantaka retreat/fire puja.
3. Full length Hayagriva retreat/fire puja (optional)
4. full length Dorje Shugden retreat/fire puja
5. Tsagoo (opening of Channels and meridians by a Lama) (Dagom Rinpoche did tsagoo for the oracle of Gaden. Trijang Rinpoche performed tsagoo on Sera's current oracle. Dungkar Oracle had tsagoo done by the previous Domo Geshe Rinpoche)
6. Restricted diet free from meat, eggs, alcohol, garlic, smoking (at least during training). Both monk and lay persons may become oracles.
The above is done over and again depending on the capacity of the oracle. Some can take trance faster, some take more time. Some can take trance within a year, some five. It is dependent on the oracle. The whole procedure is overseen by a Lama from beginning to full completion of training.
After the Oracle is trained and ready. Then the oracle is officially recognized by the Monastic officials.
Approximate Trance procedure:
1. Oracle will be requested to take trance officially. Can be from lay officials, High lamas, Monastic officials, Sangha, lay persons, etc.
2. The throne area is set up with the oracle clothes. The area purified with Sang Kampa/juniper powder incense.
3. Long horns blown to announce the arrival of the Great King Dorje Shugen who will enter the oracle that particular day.
4. Oracle arrives. Dresses. Makes Serkym offerings of golden drink. Takes his place on the throne among the assembly.
5. Monks, invocation master and ritual assistants will recite:
A. Gaden Hlagyema
B. Self Generation of Yamantaka
C. Purification of environment (from Shugden Kangsol)
D. Generation of Shugden, Palace and environment (kangsol)
E. Actual invocation of King Dorje Shugden, at which time the oracle will have clear visualization of himself as Yamantaka within the divine palace in order to 'protect' his meridians and enhance the entry of King of Dorje Shugden into his awaiting oracular vessel.(kangsol)
F. Shugden Enters
G. The sponsors, officials, guests will offer tea to Shugden, then if available offer tsok directly to Shugden.
H. Khatas, offerings, questions are offered up to Shugden which will be answered one by one.
Answers recorded by a trained scribe. Later answers will be checked and sealed by the office of the oracle and given.
I. Prophecies, answers, advice that are general will be read out to the sangha.
J. Final offering of tea, and Shugden will take leave of his oracle.
The above is an approximation of the procedures, sometimes there are variations depending on the situation, crowd, oracle and lama.
TK
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Thank you TK for the detailed information!
It takes much dedication and years to prepare a person, suitable to be an oracle. It is well known that the Dorje Shugden Oracles are extremely accurate in giving answers. How fortunate we are to have such divine guidance.
Here's an excerpt taken from Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors (Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang), how Dorje Shugden's advice was so precise that he delighted the Chinese Emperor Dhakong and Dalai Lama, and they enthroned Dorje Shugden as the principal protector of the Yellow Hat teachings.
As for this, during the first period of the time of the eleventh Dalai Lama Kädrup Gyatso and the regent Ratreng Hotogtu Ngawang Yeshe Tsultrim Gyältsän, the Great Dharma King Nechung and the Lhasa Trokang Gyälchen Shugden were both swift to perform activities and both were very renowned to give accurate prophesies. Resident in Tibet was a high Chinese minister who was powerful and oppressive named Ambän Che Trungtang. He had some very important questions to ask for prophecy that he had written in Chinese. He came to the Lhasa Trode Kangsar Protector Palace and, in front of the image of the Dharmapala, burned the questions he had written in Chinese, and demanded that the Dharmapala give clear prophesies in answer to his questions during an invocation the following day. When Dharmapala was invoked the next day, he gave explicit powerful answers to the questions in the correct order. Trungtang, with delighted conviction, informed the emperor Dhakong (1782 – 1850) who awarded a proclamation of praise to Gyälchen of the Trokang Temple with a pandit's hat, and also gave a pandit's hat to Nechung at the same time. The regent Ratreng, the Kashag, the Shabpä, the head secretary and so forth, ordained and lay officials from the high to low, and the Chinese Amban and his entourage went to Nechung in the morning and after a ceremonial offering of the new pandit's hat, then went to Lhasa Trode Kangsar. There, in the center of a large stone courtyard, inside a pitched tent, in an elaborate auspicious ceremony, over the door of the protector palace was offered the pandit's award. The Trokang oracle, the temple monks, and general chief monks, with the regent Ratreng Rinpoche, the Chinese Amban, the Kashag, and Shabpä as chief attendees, Tibetan and Chinese people of all ranks were offered a feast and had a huge festival. With the Chinese emperor Dhakong and the Lord of Buddhas, the Dalai Lama, patron and lama together, they all praised and enthroned Gyälchen Dorje Shugden as principal protector of the Yellow Hat Teachings as praised in this part of the verse.
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That's is not an easy training course...thank you tk for explaining it so clearly.
Can anyone be an oracle? Can existing oracles reincarnate again as a human to then serve to be an oracle lifetime after lifetime? Are different people suited to be oracles specific for different Buddhas? Like for DS, who is suited to have the Great King enter them! A layman, high lama, geshe? I can't imagine a plain Jane like me being suitable.
Is it "better" to be an oracle, if given the chance? Does it improve your spiritual practice? I mean, using your body as a vehicle to host a Buddha must have immense blessings and benefits.
Oh no, these are a lot of questions - if it has been answered in a different topic already, sorry, you could just kindly point me to it and I'll read :)
Oracles are fascinating.
p/s I saw in some other threads that there are non-believers in oracles, please don't attack this thread - I'm actually genuinely interested. Thanks
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Thank you TK for sharing such detailed first hand information, you are our knowledgeable one on this forum.
@jessicajameson not an easy training up schedule indeed. I believe that an oracle can be made, if a Lama can control the oracle or tell the dharma protectors what to do, to make an oracle should be very easy for them .
Most definitely there will be blessings from using your body as a vehicle no doubt results similar to the cause no?!?
TKs explanation only left me with 2 more questions:
1 If being an oracle is safe and dorjeshugden is a buddha then, why the need to protect meridians of the oracle? What happens to the meridians during trance what is the dangers to the oracle? For a lay oracle I am assuming the dangers to be even more.
E. Actual invocation of King Dorje Shugden, at which time the oracle will have clear visualization of himself as Yamantaka within the divine palace in order to 'protect' his meridians and enhance the entry of King of Dorje Shugden into his awaiting oracular vessel.(kangsol)
2 Are there any lay oracles in the world today that take trance of DS? Such a person would be a rarity and also a threat to our lovely friends in the TGIE. Both lay and ordained DS oracles take trance of the same protector, same test can be checked in the monastery to show authenticity of the being taking control of the oracle. Information from previous trance sessions can be verified.. Lay or not it is still safe and able to be checked.
One more observation, being the oracle is a choice for life, i thank them for their selfless actions. Must have come from past life prayers or why else would it be a natural direction for them to progress. I think it would have to been like that in previous lives (@jessicajameson does that sound logical or not)
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Yes, there is a lay oracle in North India who can take trance of Dorje Shugden and Kache Marpo trained up by the late great Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche.
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Here's an excerpt taken from Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors (Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang), how Dorje Shugden's advice was so precise that he delighted the Chinese Emperor Dhakong and Dalai Lama, and they enthroned Dorje Shugden as the principal protector of the Yellow Hat teachings.
As for this, during the first period of the time of the eleventh Dalai Lama Kädrup Gyatso and the regent Ratreng Hotogtu Ngawang Yeshe Tsultrim Gyältsän, the Great Dharma King Nechung and the Lhasa Trokang Gyälchen Shugden were both swift to perform activities and both were very renowned to give accurate prophesies. Resident in Tibet was a high Chinese minister who was powerful and oppressive named Ambän Che Trungtang. He had some very important questions to ask for prophecy that he had written in Chinese. He came to the Lhasa Trode Kangsar Protector Palace and, in front of the image of the Dharmapala, burned the questions he had written in Chinese, and demanded that the Dharmapala give clear prophesies in answer to his questions during an invocation the following day. When Dharmapala was invoked the next day, he gave explicit powerful answers to the questions in the correct order. Trungtang, with delighted conviction, informed the emperor Dhakong (1782 – 1850) who awarded a proclamation of praise to Gyälchen of the Trokang Temple with a pandit's hat, and also gave a pandit's hat to Nechung at the same time. The regent Ratreng, the Kashag, the Shabpä, the head secretary and so forth, ordained and lay officials from the high to low, and the Chinese Amban and his entourage went to Nechung in the morning and after a ceremonial offering of the new pandit's hat, then went to Lhasa Trode Kangsar. There, in the center of a large stone courtyard, inside a pitched tent, in an elaborate auspicious ceremony, over the door of the protector palace was offered the pandit's award. The Trokang oracle, the temple monks, and general chief monks, with the regent Ratreng Rinpoche, the Chinese Amban, the Kashag, and Shabpä as chief attendees, Tibetan and Chinese people of all ranks were offered a feast and had a huge festival. With the Chinese emperor Dhakong and the Lord of Buddhas, the Dalai Lama, patron and lama together, they all praised and enthroned Gyälchen Dorje Shugden as principal protector of the Yellow Hat Teachings as praised in this part of the verse.
Thank you for sharing this story from Music Delighting... in those days, were Shugden and Nechung viewed as the same ranking or level? Or was one considered superior to the other? Since both received the pandit's hat....
just curious...
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Thank you TK for giving a clear and concise explanation of the procedure of training of an oracle and taking of trance. It definitely gives me a better understanding of the process and make me appreciate the time spent and effort put it by an oracle in training to become qualified to take trance so that the message from the King Dorje Shugden can be relayed to us. Understanding this makes me feel that an oracle is extremely kind and compassionate.
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1 If being an oracle is safe and dorjeshugden is a buddha then, why the need to protect meridians of the oracle? What happens to the meridians during trance what is the dangers to the oracle? For a lay oracle I am assuming the dangers to be even more.
I don't know much of oracles and the trance sessions that take place but I do know that Dorje Shugden is enlightened (and is wrathful energy) and we are not. Hence, for him to go into us would be likened to forcing himself down a toilet bowl. That process could be too much for the body of the oracle to take. This has got nothing to do to do with the state of mind of Dorje Shugden. It is to do with the limitations of our body to accommodate such a powerful force. That is why Yamantaka meditations come to help assist this... Like I say, I am no expert but that is how I see it...
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Toilet bowl, hahahaha, good one.
I thought you were going to say,
likened to
....keeping a lightening bolt in a paper bag.
hope you didn't mean the oracles are toilets?
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Thank you for all the information shared on this thread. Very beneficial and worth sharing with many!
The points TK mentioned are very important for us to consider. To see the very stringent procedures that an oracle has to go through, and very "strict" training ensures the credibility of oracles. This is important in protecting both the oracle and people who consult him - there are innumerable cases of so-called oracles taking trance of much lesser beings now which can be very harmful to the person taking trance as well as to the people conversing and receiving "advice" from these beings.
Buddhism advises that we should not really consult these kinds of spirit mediums or lesser beings - it opens the portal for many other malevolent spirits to enter; also as these beings are not enlightened and still within samsara, the advice they can give us (even with a good intention) is limited or could be tainted by their own personal agendas. There have been many instances where people are in turn hurt by these beings when they do not keep "their part of the deal" or given wrong advice which leads to long-term disastrous results.
This is a bit off topic, but I think it is important to realise the big difference between qualified oracles of enlightened beings such as protectors and "ordinary" oracles.
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Roberto,
This was a sharing from a facebook friend of mine who has personally seen the DS oracle in trance:
"One day, the oracle of DS was "performing". He walked aggressively in my direction (with his sword). I first was afraid... And the next moment, when I thought " why being afraid, he is my protector" he just changed his direction... Wow! ;-)"
Cool, huh!
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Toilet bowl, hahahaha, good one.
I thought you were going to say,
likened to
....keeping a lightening bolt in a paper bag.
hope you didn't mean the oracles are toilets?
I do mean the oracles and being an oracle does not necessarily mean he/she is attained. Hence, they would have to go through extensive retreats to purify and open our psychic channels. The psychic channels are blocked or contaminated by our various delusions - anger, hatred and desire that we experience on a daily basis. Hence, to Dorje Shugden, entering us would be like entering a toilet bowl! So the retreats which is meant to bring us to enlightenment automatically cleans our psychic channel as they are merged with the deity's mind. So a clarity of the channel allows Dorje Shugden or his minister to function fully.
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Here's an excerpt taken from Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors (Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang), how Dorje Shugden's advice was so precise that he delighted the Chinese Emperor Dhakong and Dalai Lama, and they enthroned Dorje Shugden as the principal protector of the Yellow Hat teachings.
As for this, during the first period of the time of the eleventh Dalai Lama Kädrup Gyatso and the regent Ratreng Hotogtu Ngawang Yeshe Tsultrim Gyältsän, the Great Dharma King Nechung and the Lhasa Trokang Gyälchen Shugden were both swift to perform activities and both were very renowned to give accurate prophesies. Resident in Tibet was a high Chinese minister who was powerful and oppressive named Ambän Che Trungtang. He had some very important questions to ask for prophecy that he had written in Chinese. He came to the Lhasa Trode Kangsar Protector Palace and, in front of the image of the Dharmapala, burned the questions he had written in Chinese, and demanded that the Dharmapala give clear prophesies in answer to his questions during an invocation the following day. When Dharmapala was invoked the next day, he gave explicit powerful answers to the questions in the correct order. Trungtang, with delighted conviction, informed the emperor Dhakong (1782 – 1850) who awarded a proclamation of praise to Gyälchen of the Trokang Temple with a pandit's hat, and also gave a pandit's hat to Nechung at the same time. The regent Ratreng, the Kashag, the Shabpä, the head secretary and so forth, ordained and lay officials from the high to low, and the Chinese Amban and his entourage went to Nechung in the morning and after a ceremonial offering of the new pandit's hat, then went to Lhasa Trode Kangsar. There, in the center of a large stone courtyard, inside a pitched tent, in an elaborate auspicious ceremony, over the door of the protector palace was offered the pandit's award. The Trokang oracle, the temple monks, and general chief monks, with the regent Ratreng Rinpoche, the Chinese Amban, the Kashag, and Shabpä as chief attendees, Tibetan and Chinese people of all ranks were offered a feast and had a huge festival. With the Chinese emperor Dhakong and the Lord of Buddhas, the Dalai Lama, patron and lama together, they all praised and enthroned Gyälchen Dorje Shugden as principal protector of the Yellow Hat Teachings as praised in this part of the verse.
Thank you for sharing this story from Music Delighting... in those days, were Shugden and Nechung viewed as the same ranking or level? Or was one considered superior to the other? Since both received the pandit's hat....
just curious...
Interesting question. I don't know for sure but, Dorje Shugden was enthroned as principal protector of the yellow hat. Also, during the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden was already praised and recognised as an enlightened being. This is the praise written by the 5th Dalai Lama.
HUM
Though unmoving from the sphere of primordial spontaneity,
With wrathful turbulent power, swifter than lightning,
Endowed with heroic courage to judge good and bad,
I invite you with faith, please come to this place!
Robes of a monk, crown adorned with rhinocerous leather hat,
Right hand holds ornate club, left holds a human heart,
Riding various mounts such as nagas and garudas,
Who subdues the mamo’s of the charnal grounds, praise to you!
Samaya substances, offerings and torma, outer, inner and secret,
Favorite visual offerings and various objects are arranged.
Although, previously, my wishes were a bit dense,
Do not stop your powerful apparitions, I reveal and confess!
Now respectfully praising with body, speech, and mind,
For us, the masters, disciples, benefactors and entourages,
Provide the good and avert the bad!
Bring increase like the waxing moon in spiritual and temporal realms!
Moreover, swiftly accomplishing all wishes,
According to our prayers, bestow the supreme effortlessly!
And like the jewel that bestows all wishes,
Always protect us with the Three Jewels!
Sorry, this is abit off the topic on the process of taking trance, but knowing the qualities and nature of Dorje Shugden is vital. Dorje Shugden oracle take trance of a Buddha!
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Here's an excerpt taken from Music Delighting the Ocean of Protectors (Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang), how Dorje Shugden's advice was so precise that he delighted the Chinese Emperor Dhakong and Dalai Lama, and they enthroned Dorje Shugden as the principal protector of the Yellow Hat teachings.
As for this, during the first period of the time of the eleventh Dalai Lama Kädrup Gyatso and the regent Ratreng Hotogtu Ngawang Yeshe Tsultrim Gyältsän, the Great Dharma King Nechung and the Lhasa Trokang Gyälchen Shugden were both swift to perform activities and both were very renowned to give accurate prophesies. Resident in Tibet was a high Chinese minister who was powerful and oppressive named Ambän Che Trungtang. He had some very important questions to ask for prophecy that he had written in Chinese. He came to the Lhasa Trode Kangsar Protector Palace and, in front of the image of the Dharmapala, burned the questions he had written in Chinese, and demanded that the Dharmapala give clear prophesies in answer to his questions during an invocation the following day. When Dharmapala was invoked the next day, he gave explicit powerful answers to the questions in the correct order. Trungtang, with delighted conviction, informed the emperor Dhakong (1782 – 1850) who awarded a proclamation of praise to Gyälchen of the Trokang Temple with a pandit's hat, and also gave a pandit's hat to Nechung at the same time. The regent Ratreng, the Kashag, the Shabpä, the head secretary and so forth, ordained and lay officials from the high to low, and the Chinese Amban and his entourage went to Nechung in the morning and after a ceremonial offering of the new pandit's hat, then went to Lhasa Trode Kangsar. There, in the center of a large stone courtyard, inside a pitched tent, in an elaborate auspicious ceremony, over the door of the protector palace was offered the pandit's award. The Trokang oracle, the temple monks, and general chief monks, with the regent Ratreng Rinpoche, the Chinese Amban, the Kashag, and Shabpä as chief attendees, Tibetan and Chinese people of all ranks were offered a feast and had a huge festival. With the Chinese emperor Dhakong and the Lord of Buddhas, the Dalai Lama, patron and lama together, they all praised and enthroned Gyälchen Dorje Shugden as principal protector of the Yellow Hat Teachings as praised in this part of the verse.
Thank you for sharing this story from Music Delighting... in those days, were Shugden and Nechung viewed as the same ranking or level? Or was one considered superior to the other? Since both received the pandit's hat....
just curious...
Interesting question. I don't know for sure but, Dorje Shugden was enthroned as principal protector of the yellow hat. Also, during the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden was already praised and recognised as an enlightened being. This is the praise written by the 5th Dalai Lama.
HUM
Though unmoving from the sphere of primordial spontaneity,
With wrathful turbulent power, swifter than lightning,
Endowed with heroic courage to judge good and bad,
I invite you with faith, please come to this place!
Robes of a monk, crown adorned with rhinocerous leather hat,
Right hand holds ornate club, left holds a human heart,
Riding various mounts such as nagas and garudas,
Who subdues the mamo’s of the charnal grounds, praise to you!
Samaya substances, offerings and torma, outer, inner and secret,
Favorite visual offerings and various objects are arranged.
Although, previously, my wishes were a bit dense,
Do not stop your powerful apparitions, I reveal and confess!
Now respectfully praising with body, speech, and mind,
For us, the masters, disciples, benefactors and entourages,
Provide the good and avert the bad!
Bring increase like the waxing moon in spiritual and temporal realms!
Moreover, swiftly accomplishing all wishes,
According to our prayers, bestow the supreme effortlessly!
And like the jewel that bestows all wishes,
Always protect us with the Three Jewels!
Sorry, this is abit off the topic on the process of taking trance, but knowing the qualities and nature of Dorje Shugden is vital. Dorje Shugden oracle take trance of a Buddha!
Well, I think that the Pandit's hat was awarded by the Chinese without putting much thought to rank and hierarchy of the deities. To the Chinese, a deity is just a deity and they awarded the Pandit's hat to Nechung and Dorje Shugden oracles mainly because they were very accurate and powerful with their prophesies. The Tibetans would never award a Pandit's hat to Dharma Protectors, enlightened or otherwise because it is a symbol of a attained Lama. A Lama is always higher than the Yidam and Dharma Protector within the context of spiritual practice.
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Can anyone just request to be an Oracle or make a decision to be an Oracle?
It would seem like such a noble and beneficial "profession" - an Oracle can help so many people.
How would one go about that?
Just curious....
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Prior to Official Recoginition as Oracle:
The Training of the selected individual.
1. Migtseyma full length retreat (extensive form) minimum 1,000,000 mantras.
2. Full lengh Yamantaka retreat/fire puja.
3. Full length Hayagriva retreat/fire puja (optional)
4. full length Dorje Shugden retreat/fire puja
5. Tsagoo (opening of Channels and meridians by a Lama) (Dagom Rinpoche did tsagoo for the oracle of Gaden. Trijang Rinpoche performed tsagoo on Sera's current oracle. Dungkar Oracle had tsagoo done by the previous Domo Geshe Rinpoche)
6. Restricted diet free from meat, eggs, alcohol, garlic, smoking (at least during training). Both monk and lay persons may become oracles.
The above is done over and again depending on the capacity of the oracle. Some can take trance faster, some take more time. Some can take trance within a year, some five. It is dependent on the oracle. The whole procedure is overseen by a Lama from beginning to full completion of training.
After the Oracle is trained and ready. Then the oracle is officially recognized by the Monastic officials.
TK
Dear Helena,
Tk has already elaborated at the beginning of this thread. Just to add, there are some people with a natural ability to take trance and there are people who can be trained to take trance. Whichever one the prospective oracle is, he must go through the prescribed retreats because it will purify and bless the channels so only the right deity will enter the oracle. Anyway, the retreats are not really meant just for oracles, it would be tremendously beneficial for anyone who wishes to engage in them.
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Hi Big Uncle,
Thank you for re-posting what TK wrote.
It is my fault for not framing my question properly. My apologies.
Actually, what I wanted to know was - if someone like me, though very much un-qualified, could become an Oracle and how would I go about it from where I am.
From TK's writings and sharing, I am aware that these are the training we have to go through. But I wanted to know if it is something I can just go up to my Guru and request though I am not ordained nor qualified in any way.
However prior to this, I managed to consult one of my senior Dharma brothers earlier.
He shared that it is the Lama who creates the Oracles and can make anyone into an Oracle. So, if I have faith in my Guru, my Guru would know which path is best for me - to be an Oracle or not, or something else entirely. And perhaps, I need not request after all.
Most importantly, it is my samaya with my Guru and keeping all my commitments with my Guru and following all that my Guru has instructed me. These would help create the causes for me to become much more than what I am now.
Sorry, this is getting a little personal - I have always been very attracted and fascinated with Oracles.
I find them truly beautiful and beneficial since very young.
Thank you, Big Uncle, for taking the time and trouble to answer me.
Really appreciate it.
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I think Dorje Shugden well deserved the pandit hat. Why?
Because he is three in one.....The lama, the Yidam and the protector.
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Hi Big Uncle,
Thank you for re-posting what TK wrote.
It is my fault for not framing my question properly. My apologies.
Actually, what I wanted to know was - if someone like me, though very much un-qualified, could become an Oracle and how would I go about it from where I am.
From TK's writings and sharing, I am aware that these are the training we have to go through. But I wanted to know if it is something I can just go up to my Guru and request though I am not ordained nor qualified in any way.
However prior to this, I managed to consult one of my senior Dharma brothers earlier.
He shared that it is the Lama who creates the Oracles and can make anyone into an Oracle. So, if I have faith in my Guru, my Guru would know which path is best for me - to be an Oracle or not, or something else entirely. And perhaps, I need not request after all.
Most importantly, it is my samaya with my Guru and keeping all my commitments with my Guru and following all that my Guru has instructed me. These would help create the causes for me to become much more than what I am now.
Sorry, this is getting a little personal - I have always been very attracted and fascinated with Oracles.
I find them truly beautiful and beneficial since very young.
Thank you, Big Uncle, for taking the time and trouble to answer me.
Really appreciate it.
Dear Helena,
No worries, no need to apologise for a small matter. I like your questions and back to your question, I also think that it would be up to a Lama and you can make request to the Lama to be an oracle but be ready for the retreats and training for it. Depending on our psychic channels and karma, I could imagine some oracles-to-be would take a longer time to train than others.
On the other hand, I don't think it is necessary for an oracle to be ordained because there are many lay oracles in Tibet and if I am not mistaken, there have been a lay Dorje Shugden oracle. Hence, anybody can be an oracle, it is whether they would want to do it because an oracle cannot make this into a business or they loose their power to take trance. Another important aspect of this is samaya with their Guru or they would also loose their power to take trance.
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A friend of mine just told me that it is a very painful process to clear the meridians of the trainee oracle. Is this true? I can imagine if we are all such contaminated bodies - with alcohol, tobacco and any illegal substances! - and our negative karma of course...
and should non-oracles (eg joe bloggs like me) get their meridians purified too? or is it a very complex process?
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Thanks, Big Uncle. Truly appreciate your answers and especially, your time taken to answer.
Hey, WB - I just found out that it is true that oracles in training do need to get their chakras or meridians 'cleared' or purified. Whether it is painful or not depends on the individual itself. I think some people have more to clear than others? Also different people have varied threshold if pain and different degrees of negative karma.
Apparently, the entourage of the Protector will come and clear the oracle in training's meridians and purify his or her 'vessel' before the Protector can enter.
This clearing or purification of the meridians and chakras can take up to months - depending on the individual again. Every case or individual is unique and different. Considering one's past karmic imprints, affinity and even aptitude.
I believe such a process should be extremely beneficial for anyone or everyone - not just because one is training to be an oracle.
It is, essentially a purification process. That is always good, considering how much negative karma one has been accumulating all this time.
If anyone has any more information, please do share.
Thank you so much.
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I'm a little confused now... does Dorjeshugden choose the oracle, does the lama choose the oracle, or both?
Does an oracle know they are an oracle?
Does a person volunteer themselves to become an oracle?
Is it for life?
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I'm a little confused now... does Dorjeshugden choose the oracle, does the lama choose the oracle, or both?
Does an oracle know they are an oracle?
Does a person volunteer themselves to become an oracle?
Is it for life?
I have heard that there are some people who have natural ability to take trance. They exhibit this by having fits and spasms especially in holy places. So usually, the prospective oracle would know if he is aware of the signs. If it is in holy places, it is most likely the entourage of the Protector that is entering. The deity may not be able to speak until the retreats are completed. The oracle would have to go through a barrage of tests by High Lamas to affirm that it is the right deity entering the oracle.
I have not heard of an oracle without a natural ability yet but technically that should be possible too with the right training from a qualified Lama. So, I think technically there should be oracles that would volunteer to be one. Oracles are not for life because as the oracle ages, the trances would be too much for the oracle's body. So a Lama would request the deity not to enter and sometimes, he would even seal his psychic entrances to prevent this from happening.
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I have heard that there are some people who have natural ability to take trance. They exhibit this by having fits and spasms especially in holy places. So usually, the prospective oracle would know if he is aware of the signs. If it is in holy places, it is most likely the entourage of the Protector that is entering. The deity may not be able to speak until the retreats are completed. The oracle would have to go through a barrage of tests by High Lamas to affirm that it is the right deity entering the oracle.
I have not heard of an oracle without a natural ability yet but technically that should be possible too with the right training from a qualified Lama. So, I think technically there should be oracles that would volunteer to be one. Oracles are not for life because as the oracle ages, the trances would be too much for the oracle's body. So a Lama would request the deity not to enter and sometimes, he would even seal his psychic entrances to prevent this from happening.
I read this amazing article about the biography of this oracle, His Eminence Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama, (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1127) who was the uncle of Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso but has since passed on in 2002. The article mentions that H.E. Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama exhibited this natural ability of an oracle when he was 17 years old on a visit to Bodhgaya. Do read the article for more information on this.
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You are right, WB - it is a great article!
Very moving and inspiring.
Kuten Lama was indeed very special. I especially liked this paragraph -
Finally we reached Buxa in northern India. There we met a Tibetan official called Phala Dronyer Chenmo. At his home he requested Kyabje Zimey Rinpoche to join the Tantric College re-established in Dalhousie. The Chushur Samkhar family was also sent to Dalhousie to a home for displaced people. I was left behind because I was not counted as a lama or an old person. So I stayed in Buxa with about 1500 monks from all traditions, not only Gelugpa.
I stayed at Buxa for ten years at the request of the officials of His Holiness and served as an oracle. Whenever there was a major decision to be made I was consulted, irrespective of any tradition posing the questions. I also served as a representative at many conferences in New Delhi and Dharamsala during this time.
That is the way it should be - everyone living together, helping one another - all traditions living in harmony despite the chaos surrounding them and the challenges that laid before them.
How quickly they have forgotten...that makes me sad.
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I have heard that there are some people who have natural ability to take trance. They exhibit this by having fits and spasms especially in holy places. So usually, the prospective oracle would know if he is aware of the signs. If it is in holy places, it is most likely the entourage of the Protector that is entering. The deity may not be able to speak until the retreats are completed. The oracle would have to go through a barrage of tests by High Lamas to affirm that it is the right deity entering the oracle.
I have not heard of an oracle without a natural ability yet but technically that should be possible too with the right training from a qualified Lama. So, I think technically there should be oracles that would volunteer to be one. Oracles are not for life because as the oracle ages, the trances would be too much for the oracle's body. So a Lama would request the deity not to enter and sometimes, he would even seal his psychic entrances to prevent this from happening.
I read this amazing article about the biography of this oracle, His Eminence Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama, ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1127[/url]) who was the uncle of Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso but has since passed on in 2002. The article mentions that H.E. Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama exhibited this natural ability of an oracle when he was 17 years old on a visit to Bodhgaya. Do read the article for more information on this.
Dorje Shugden in 3,211 words or less http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5878
Incidentally, a point that should be mentioned for the clarification of context with regard to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s position, is that Geshe la’s brother has worked directly with the monk who serves as the Oracle of Dorje Shugden
I was hoping to find the name of this brother but the above is all I could find.
Nevertheless, I love reading about oracles and how they become such beneficial beings due to the kindness of the lamas.
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I have heard that there are some people who have natural ability to take trance. They exhibit this by having fits and spasms especially in holy places. So usually, the prospective oracle would know if he is aware of the signs. If it is in holy places, it is most likely the entourage of the Protector that is entering. The deity may not be able to speak until the retreats are completed. The oracle would have to go through a barrage of tests by High Lamas to affirm that it is the right deity entering the oracle.
I have not heard of an oracle without a natural ability yet but technically that should be possible too with the right training from a qualified Lama. So, I think technically there should be oracles that would volunteer to be one. Oracles are not for life because as the oracle ages, the trances would be too much for the oracle's body. So a Lama would request the deity not to enter and sometimes, he would even seal his psychic entrances to prevent this from happening.
I read this amazing article about the biography of this oracle, His Eminence Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama, ([url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1127[/url]) who was the uncle of Ven. Geshe Kelsang Gyatso but has since passed on in 2002. The article mentions that H.E. Choyang Duldzin Kuten Lama exhibited this natural ability of an oracle when he was 17 years old on a visit to Bodhgaya. Do read the article for more information on this.
Dorje Shugden in 3,211 words or less [url]http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=5878[/url]
Incidentally, a point that should be mentioned for the clarification of context with regard to Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s position, is that Geshe la’s brother has worked directly with the monk who serves as the Oracle of Dorje Shugden
I was hoping to find the name of this brother but the above is all I could find.
Nevertheless, I love reading about oracles and how they become such beneficial beings due to the kindness of the lamas.
Just curious - if Geshe-la's brother works closely with the oracle monk and Geshe-la's uncle was this renowned venerable oracle, i wonder why Geshe-la discourages oracles in his organisation. Perhaps it is because his organisation is western centric though i heard that it is also growing in the east, where oracles would be more easily acceptable.
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A friend of mine just told me that it is a very painful process to clear the meridians of the trainee oracle. Is this true? I can imagine if we are all such contaminated bodies - with alcohol, tobacco and any illegal substances! - and our negative karma of course...
and should non-oracles (eg joe bloggs like me) get their meridians purified too? or is it a very complex process?
Does anybody know how long it'll take for the alcohol/tobacco to clear out from our system?
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painful? My god... ouch. We have all seen the movies where spirits / demons enter the human body. How so the oracle?
I read some where that spirits, ghosts can enter through our orrifices, fingers, toes etc. What about deities such as Dorje Shugden. I'd hate to think that such an enlightened being would enter through the backdoor (no disrespect).
If a deity can enter through one door can anything else follow that is unenlightened?
Hey just why would the oracle sit in on conferences... because its not the actual oracle whom they consult for answers is it. meaning to say as a person the oracles opinion is not much credibility, but if it's the deity then granted.
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Interesting question regarding from where the deity enters. I've always assumed it enters through the chakra point on top of our heads...
For a trained oracle, my understanding is that no other beings will enter except what is permitted by the lama.
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It has not really been answered by this thread.
Does a person request the Lama to be an oracle?
Does the Lama tell the person they are to be an oracle?
Does DS himself just know the person is oracle material and just take control of the person?
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It has not really been answered by this thread.
Does a person request the Lama to be an oracle?
Does the Lama tell the person they are to be an oracle?
Does DS himself just know the person is oracle material and just take control of the person?
A person may request to be an oracle.
A Lama may also choose a person and train them up.
Dorje Shugden can also choose and takes the person up to be his oracular voice.
In short, all three methods and combinations of them are possible.
The Oracle of Gaden Choyang Kuten and the current Gameng Kuten were chosen by Dorje Shugden.
The Oracle from Sera residing in Taiwan was chosen by Trijang Rinpoche.
The Oracle of Kalimpong was blessed by Domo Geshe Rinpoche.
The Oracle of Ladakh currently was blessed by Kyabje Dagom Rinpoche.
The Oracle of Simla was blessed by Trijang Rinpoche.
The Oracle of Panglung in Tibet (very famous) was chosen by Kache Marpo.
TK
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Thanks so much, TK - I have finally got the answer I was seeking for.
I guess, even if a person requests to be an Oracle - their Lama would know if the person is ready or not, or rather, has the potential or not.
I am assuming that even if the person is under-qualified in many ways - that individual can be trained, right? It is not as if an individual has to be pre-disposed with some gifts or talents in the first place. Although I am sure having any gifts and talents are a real bonus.
I am assuming that as long as the person is determined and trusts their Lama, he or she can be trained to become an Oracle.
I am sorry to be asking so many questions again.
I am just really fascinated and interested in Oracles. I think it is the most beautiful and meaningful profession, after a Dharma Teacher that is.
An Oracle can help so many people and bring about so much benefits.
An individual trapped in samsara can never do much do, no matter what samsaric worldly job they acquire or got hold of.
We seem more trapped in the body we have been given since birth than anything else, because we choose to use our bodies for everything else except spiritual pursuits.
Imagine when our bodies are used as a channel or vehicle for the Divine Enlightened Beings and Buddhas to enter and help others. That to me is the most noble of jobs that anyone can find in samsara. Then our bodies are used for a truly worthy cause. Not just worldly self-serving pursuits.
Again, of course, the most supreme is still the spiritual teacher or Guru who teaches the Dharma.
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Some ppl not chosen by Dorje Shugden or the Guru may still be an oracle. But that person must get their lama's blessings, permission and training.
To be a good student that practices Lam Rim, holds commitments/samayas, practices and follows the instructions of their lama is much easier than becoming/being an oracle. If one connot be a reliable and honourable student, nevermind being an oracle which is much harder. Some ppl would like the more 'glamorous' tasks, but not realizing it's much more than meets the eye. And if you do every assignment the lama gives you no matter how small and without selectiveness, it automatically leads to something bigger. Finishing successfully an assignment is a good sign of guru devotion and that you are ready for more and 'bigger'.
If your lama gives you assignments, works or duties and you cannot perform, what makes you think you will follow the intructions to become a oracle which could be alot of physical pain during training for a few years.
In short, you can be an oracle if the lama trains you. The training is very difficult and take up to five years.
TK
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Thank you, TK.
What you shared makes perfect logical sense.
I do not think that it is remotely glamourous to be an Oracle. But I do feel that is truly a vocation of great servitude. The Oracle no longer has control of his or her body, but the Enlightened Being will control over it and perhaps, even the Lama as it is always the Lama who directs the Enlightened Being to enter the Oracle's body as I understand.
So, I would think the most important attribute to have and hold as an Oracle would be humility, knowing that you are not here to be served or revered and it is really not you, but what your body as a vehicle is channeling. You are just the shell and nothing more. The real divine force comes from the Lama and the Enlightened Being. A simple human being has no power at all, but the Buddhas and the Lamas have. And coupled with one's sincere desire to want to benefit and help others, I think being an Oracle would be truly powerful and wonderful, in that sense.
I love these words of yours -
If one connot be a reliable and honourable student, nevermind being an oracle which is much harder.
I think if one cannot be a reliable and honourable person, that's really the end for that person. The karma will accumulated and incurred will be horrendous - never mind anything else, actually. This is the basic virtues of humanity.
Thanks again for your kind sharing, TK. I truly appreciate it.
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Shugden taking trance of the Gameng oracle monk in Shar Gaden (seated on throne). The abbot of Shar Gaden writing down the answers given by Dorje Shugden. Afterwards, all the monks in the monastery will come up to Shugden for blessings. The monks have been recieving instructions from Shugden in this manner for years. The very formation of Shar Gaden was advised by Shugden and blessed by Shugden due to the ban by Dalai Lama. Regularly, Gameng Kuten will take trance of Shugden to answer questions from Shar Gaden. The sangha of Shar Gaden very much trust and rely on this form of communication. Kyabje Zong Rinpoche already predicted to Tenzin Choephel he would become a Shugden oracle while the oracle was in his youth.
It is the same for Serpom Monastery in Bylakuppe. They consult their oracle monk who reside in Taiwan. The Sera Boompra Kuten has been taking trance for Sera for over three decades since his installment as officlal oracle by the previous Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche. If Trijang Rinpche installed him, there's is no doubt of the benefits and authenticity.
This tradition of oracles taking trance has been alive for the last 1,000 years in Tibet.
The current Gameng oracle is Tenzin Choepel a student of the previous Kyabje Zong Rinpoche. Tenzin Choepel lived in Zong Rinpoche's household (labrang) for the most part of his youth. Now Gameng Oracle Tenzin Choephel resides in Indiana, USA. He takes regular trance of Shugden for the many requests/questions that come from around the world.
Personally my business has improved very much since consulting the oracle several times for pujas/practices. I had wanted my business as I travel often to improve in order to be a more support to the dharma. The correct predictions and advice from Shugden via the oracle has made me really financially much better. Where as before I was having many problems financially and my business was very down. Shugden reminded me, if my motivation for business was for dharma is true, then my business would improve and He would help. I always remembered this advice. Now I am better able to sponsor dharma growth as a businessman.
We have an oracle of Shugden in the Far East (Taiwan) and in the West (USA). Very helpful.
TK
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Been awhile since I visited this thread to see how it developed. My what a nice surprise. Questions answered, insight given and to top it off nice pictures of communication with our Protector.
Thank you TK!
Its quite surreal to those of us from the outside looking in.
To the people in this picture its just a normal days Dharma work. I love how the Abbot is seated and writing the answers to serious questions that decide the future paths of so many thousands if not millions of people. You never know.
Sad after reading the other thread regarding "Rime" (unification of sects) that this; link, tradition, communion, collaboration, partnership - is in effect being targeted to be wiped of the face of the planet.
May that never come to pass.
May we grow as dharma practitioners
May truth be told
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May there be a new generation of DS Oracles so that this wonderful tradition continues and remains.
Thank you for taking the time to share more, TK.
No matter how advanced the future will look like and evolve into, this Oracle tradition is something that's precious and important to the Gelug Lineage. The world can never become too advanced for an Oracle to become obsolete.
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Gosh, this forum has so much content and the knowledge shared by the forum participants are extremely enriching.
I had forgotten about this thread and came across this post while browsing in the forum.
It is as refreshing and enriching as when i first read it. I hope one day, I will be qualified to receive higher teachings and practices and do something good with my life!
Hope you guys are having a good weekend and thank you for all your generous sharing on this site.
Prior to Official Recoginition as Oracle:
The Training of the selected individual.
1. Migtseyma full length retreat (extensive form) minimum 1,000,000 mantras.
2. Full lengh Yamantaka retreat/fire puja.
3. Full length Hayagriva retreat/fire puja (optional)
4. full length Dorje Shugden retreat/fire puja
5. Tsagoo (opening of Channels and meridians by a Lama) (Dagom Rinpoche did tsagoo for the oracle of Gaden. Trijang Rinpoche performed tsagoo on Sera's current oracle. Dungkar Oracle had tsagoo done by the previous Domo Geshe Rinpoche)
6. Restricted diet free from meat, eggs, alcohol, garlic, smoking (at least during training). Both monk and lay persons may become oracles.
The above is done over and again depending on the capacity of the oracle. Some can take trance faster, some take more time. Some can take trance within a year, some five. It is dependent on the oracle. The whole procedure is overseen by a Lama from beginning to full completion of training.
After the Oracle is trained and ready. Then the oracle is officially recognized by the Monastic officials.
Approximate Trance procedure:
1. Oracle will be requested to take trance officially. Can be from lay officials, High lamas, Monastic officials, Sangha, lay persons, etc.
2. The throne area is set up with the oracle clothes. The area purified with Sang Kampa/juniper powder incense.
3. Long horns blown to announce the arrival of the Great King Dorje Shugen who will enter the oracle that particular day.
4. Oracle arrives. Dresses. Makes Serkym offerings of golden drink. Takes his place on the throne among the assembly.
5. Monks, invocation master and ritual assistants will recite:
A. Gaden Hlagyema
B. Self Generation of Yamantaka
C. Purification of environment (from Shugden Kangsol)
D. Generation of Shugden, Palace and environment (kangsol)
E. Actual invocation of King Dorje Shugden, at which time the oracle will have clear visualization of himself as Yamantaka within the divine palace in order to 'protect' his meridians and enhance the entry of King of Dorje Shugden into his awaiting oracular vessel.(kangsol)
F. Shugden Enters
G. The sponsors, officials, guests will offer tea to Shugden, then if available offer tsok directly to Shugden.
H. Khatas, offerings, questions are offered up to Shugden which will be answered one by one.
Answers recorded by a trained scribe. Later answers will be checked and sealed by the office of the oracle and given.
I. Prophecies, answers, advice that are general will be read out to the sangha.
J. Final offering of tea, and Shugden will take leave of his oracle.
The above is an approximation of the procedures, sometimes there are variations depending on the situation, crowd, oracle and lama.
TK
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I was asked whether there has been any western research/documentation on an oracle taking trance of a Protector. I had said that I didn't know but that it's unlikely as is it a private, sacred ceremony that cannot be recorded with scientific instruments.
I very much wish to see a Dorje Shugden oracle in real life (as opposed to youtube videos) one day. I am sure it will be a tremendous occasion. I'd just like to ask though - if the Lamas are considered "higher" than the Protectors, surely the Lamas would not need to consult the oracles? The Lamas would be able to answer questions through their own clairvoyance? Eg the Dalai Lama would not need to consult Nechung especially, who is an unenlightened protector and thus not reliable (and proven to be not reliable with regards to the Dalai Lama's exodus from Tibet and the independence of Tibet!)
Please do share your opinions.
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I'd just like to ask though - if the Lamas are considered "higher" than the Protectors, surely the Lamas would not need to consult the oracles? The Lamas would be able to answer questions through their own clairvoyance? Eg the Dalai Lama would not need to consult Nechung especially, who is an unenlightened protector and thus not reliable (and proven to be not reliable with regards to the Dalai Lama's exodus from Tibet and the independence of Tibet!)
Please do share your opinions.
Dear WB,
I have asked this question myself and I was told that sometimes Lama do consult oracles although they do know the answer themselves. This is because many ordinary people due to lack of understanding have more faith in the protector than the Lama. They tend to think that the protector is god whereas the Lama, wise no doubt is still just a man. (They do not know that the protector in fact takes instructions from a qualified Lama) Therefore, should the protector gives any advice, they are more likely to follow. In such cases, for the benefit of people who do not know better, they Lama still consults the oracle. For people who have faith in the Lama, the Lama's advice would be sufficient and there is no need to consult the oracle.
However, the part I still do not get is why would High Lamas in the monastery consult the oracle. I am sure the monks who are trained in Dharma would understand that the advice of the Lama would be enough. What is even more puzzling is why would Dalai Lama, the emanation of Avalokiteshvara himself consult Nechung, an enlightened protector? The question of faith here I think is not the issue since many people already have great faith in Dalai Lama as Avalokiteshvara himself and therefore do not need any convincing if the advice was given by Dalai Lama.
I am still puzzled.... Can anyone explain?
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Dear Wosel Tenzin
I do not claim to have the answers and have these question in mind also. However, the following are thoughts I have to share :
1. It is the compassion of Enlightened beings, in this case Dorje Shugden allowing us to have direct contact with him through a suitable vessel such as a trained Kuten. As we cannot see celestial beings/enlightened beings, through the oracle, Dorje Shugden teach, blesses, gives advice, connect with us and manifests in such a way to show us that he is close to practitioners to guide us on the path.
2. Beings who use their lives to be trained as oracles gain tremendous merits. Just look at the extensive retreats the candidate will need to go thru in order to be a suitable vessel.
3. From what i understand, high lamas do not depend on oracles however, they do work together to accomplish the lama's work quicker. One of the reasons for this partnership is that the compassionate high beings took on the nirmanakaya form/tulkus, and along with it, certain "limitations" due to composition of the human body. This does not mean that their mind is defiled like ours. Example, when tulkus are born, they have the capacity to be trained much quicker than others, however, they still need to be "retrained". Therefore, enlightened beings manifests to help us as teachers, via oracles, as animate and inanimate objects etc...
Please correct me if any of what i have shared above is incorrect as I seek to know the answers also.
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Some ppl not chosen by Dorje Shugden or the Guru may still be an oracle. But that person must get their lama's blessings, permission and training.
To be a good student that practices Lam Rim, holds commitments/samayas, practices and follows the instructions of their lama is much easier than becoming/being an oracle. If one connot be a reliable and honourable student, nevermind being an oracle which is much harder. Some ppl would like the more 'glamorous' tasks, but not realizing it's much more than meets the eye. And if you do every assignment the lama gives you no matter how small and without selectiveness, it automatically leads to something bigger. Finishing successfully an assignment is a good sign of guru devotion and that you are ready for more and 'bigger'.
If your lama gives you assignments, works or duties and you cannot perform, what makes you think you will follow the intructions to become a oracle which could be alot of physical pain during training for a few years.
In short, you can be an oracle if the lama trains you. The training is very difficult and take up to five years.
TK
Was watching some YouTube videos on trances at the monasteries and all, and it got me thinking about the process of taking trance. I wanted to resurrect this post because I found it extremely useful in broadening my understanding of oracles.
I once heard someone describe the process of taking trance as being like squashing a mountain through the eye of a needle. Taking into account the pain of the trance and the intensity of the trainings, you have to see that oracles arent ordinary monks, being so willing to go the extra mile and dedicate their human bodies to becoming a vessel for the deities.
What do the rest of us use our bodies for? Eating, sleeping, copulating, defecating. We come and go, and spend our lives as animals. Having been so habituated into that for so many lifetimes, Im basically just amazed as how oracles can break this cycle of lifetimes to do something that benefits others so greatly. Imagine how pure they have to be, to become a vessel for a Buddha!!
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http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/becoming-a-divine-messenger-how-oracles-are-created/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/dharma-readings/becoming-a-divine-messenger-how-oracles-are-created/)
The above article and the two threads mentioned are full of information that have now answered many of my questions which I did not have the opportunity to ask in the past. Thank you to the people who wrote the article, to those who posted on both threads and to those who participated on the threads. I hope to revive this post for the benefit of new visitors to this forum.
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1203.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1203.0)
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Many of us may not have had the opportunity to see a qualified Oracle taking trance of Dorje Shugden.
This article is full of information of such an event and also have links to other sites that are also very informative. I encourage everyone to have a read.
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LosangKhyentse, thank you for the details on the training of the oracle. For someone to have to go through the rigorous and strict training is something extraordinary indeed. Is the oracle-to-be identified and trained from young?