dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: DharmapalasDharma on June 01, 2010, 11:30:09 PM
-
I have been a Gelugpa on both sides of the Shugden issue. I hold both His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Shugden close to my heart. I am so glad to be a member of this site forum. Unlike the Western Shugden Society this website is focused on pure dharma and not politics. I feel Dorje Shugden and His Holiness are both great kings spreading BuddhaDharma. Buddhists like His Holiness for his faith and not for his politics. I feel very sad for all Shugdenpas in India but hope that things get better. The ban on Shugden should be repealed but let us hold strong to our values as dharma practitioners and not lose faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden.
-
Welcome dear new member.
I certainly wish that you will enjoy your participation in this Forum where friends of the Dharmapala congregate.
I also wish that you take a look at the website, and try to be a little less quick in attacking its members from day one. An important number of the old members of this Forum belong one way or another to WSS. We have already had a period where a number of newbies came precisely to criticize the WSS. You might want to read the posts since last January, and maybe you will take into consideration the response the WSS people already gave.
Otherwise we are on for another round of unfair attacks against WSS, the people who, with their extraordinary demonstrations around the world in 2008 prevented the total wiping out of our monks from Southern India.
I hope you will enjoy the reading.
Welcome, again.
-
Dear DharmapalasDharma
Welcome to this website and forum. This website has benefited many and has provided a supportive platform for many to learn, respectfully exchange views and grow together. There's much to read from this website and the many postings from our dear forum members. Do take time to read through them.
sincerely
DSfriend
-
Otherwise we are on for another round of unfair attacks against WSS, the people who, with their extraordinary demonstrations around the world in 2008 prevented the total wiping out of our monks from Southern India.
Thanks Friend for your beautiful post, reminding us of the great achievements following the public protests against Lama policy in 2008. It is hard to have faith in both the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, as suggested, when Dalai Lama himself repeatedly has said that people need to chose between him and Dorje Shugden. Just for clarification.
small being
-
Even though he may have committed henious actions, we should not speak ill of others...But set an example of real compassion. :)
-
Sorry, Zach! It is my job to destroy this Usuper!
The Truth does a pretty good job of coming out on its own, people cause their own destruction by their own actions...Kind mother remember ? :)
Stop them harming themselves by stopping them from harming others. :)
-
We all have our own stuff to do in this life.
The Man attacked me first
I do not turn my cheek for Murderers!
6 perfections....patiences being one to cultivate, especially with our perceived enemies.
As Buddha was rather clear hatred will not cease by hatred. :)
I am not a fan of his actions with cleansing part of our lineage, but i can bear no ill will toward him either.
Just as when a forest burns the growth back is far brighter and more splendid then before, Many people now know of the great protector many people now will receive a karmic connection.
May all beings be free from suffering. :)
-
I am not suprised to see more BS from NKT world some people really do have a warped and extreme view of course im not at all suprised it was set up by one of the usual suspects for a guess...
Hey just more practise for loving compassion :)
-
Even though he may have committed henious actions, we should not speak ill of others...But set an example of real compassion. :)
Thumbs up Zach! Love that thinking.
-
Even though he may have committed henious actions, we should not speak ill of others...But set an example of real compassion. :)
Thumbs up Zach! Love that thinking.
All praise to my teachers they really know their onions ! ;D
-
I have been a Gelugpa on both sides of the Shugden issue. I hold both His Holiness the Dalai Lama and Shugden close to my heart. I am so glad to be a member of this site forum. Unlike the Western Shugden Society this website is focused on pure dharma and not politics. I feel Dorje Shugden and His Holiness are both great kings spreading BuddhaDharma. Buddhists like His Holiness for his faith and not for his politics. I feel very sad for all Shugdenpas in India but hope that things get better. The ban on Shugden should be repealed but let us hold strong to our values as dharma practitioners and not lose faith in His Holiness or Dorje Shugden.
Dear DharmapalasDharma ,
I m agree what you said , i m also have very strong faith in HH Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden. Because of the ban of the Dorje Shugden from HH Dalai Lama indirectly promote Dorje Shugden to the world .i m sure His Holiness knows what he is doing with all the contradiction matter.His Holiness so compassion to use himself for people to criticise definitely he has valid reasons.
-
Thom,
You don't think they are talking seriously? I've come to the conclusion that they are just teasing us, the old grumpies of the Forum ...
Besides, some people might just be taking a break from the zillion letters they've probably written to help the monks discriminated in Nepal.
-
Although I am new here, but I agree with what Zach says - no matter what happens nothing should deter us from practising harder and better to become shining examples of Buddhism. Courage is not in the absence of Fear, it is inspite of because there are more important matters at hand. Everything around us gives us opportunities to practise on everything that we have learnt. Hence, why do we learn the Dharma in the first place, right? I repeat again - DON'T LOSE FAITH IN HIS HOLINESS AND DORJE SHUGDEN.
We all have our own stuff to do in this life.
The Man attacked me first
I do not turn my cheek for Murderers!
6 perfections....patiences being one to cultivate, especially with our perceived enemies.
As Buddha was rather clear hatred will not cease by hatred. :)
I am not a fan of his actions with cleansing part of our lineage, but i can bear no ill will toward him either.
Just as when a forest burns the growth back is far brighter and more splendid then before, Many people now know of the great protector many people now will receive a karmic connection.
May all beings be free from suffering. :)
-
I am not a fan of DL's ways and means, but neither am I Enlightened to judge. I cannot say that I know the man anymore than I know myself fully. Otherwise you and I will not still be stuck in Samsara, we'd be chilling out with all the Buddhas in the Pure Land. You are obviously well read and very knowledgeable. That is very much needed and valued in a place where there is so much confusion, fear and sometimes, pure darkness.Question: Must this war be fought with "blood shed"? Is there no other way to do this that reflects the essence of Bodhichitta? Is there no better way for us to act, when we are the ones exercising that choice - despite or inspite of what THEY or THE OTHERS choose to do? Do we have to sink to their level?
TK posted something I found to be very interesting - Having Contaminated Dharma is better than having no Dharma at all.
I'll have to contemplate on that. Sometimes being at "war" for so long and with the "blood in our hands", it is hard to tell who is contaminated and who is not. THANK YOU for all your sharing. Much appreciated. Have a good Sunday.
Your fantastic expression of, don't lose faith in the dalia lama, is incomprehensible to me.
I take faith in what Domo Geshe Rinpoche told me and what I surmised by my own observations of
this man's acts of abomination and desecractions of Lord Buddha Teachings and the Defamation of Lord Je T'Song Khapa Teachings.
Thank you for Defending My Lineage.........................................................................was more than adequate to convince me of my own convictions that this is not Buddhism 101 and this is a Battle that has invoked the Warriors of Shambala to Awaken, Arise to Defend the Dharma from those who seek to Destroy it.
This man represents and archaic antiquidated medieval kingdom that enslaved the masses and sought only to further it's own preservation as overlords of an entire people for hundreds of years. This is the Over throw of an old mind set of faux superiority over others. This is a Battle for The Defense of All People to Believe as they Wish without fear of moleatation or abuse by others.
This man has an entire of history of subjugating others and using mutilation as punishment in his Shangrila.
He is not a king or a buddha.
Check out his lineage and get back to me about this usurper, you call the dalia lama!
The One We have Been Fighting for over 14 years.
Stretching over two centuries............................................
Now what were you saying about equanimity and dharma practice??
-
I am not a fan of DL's ways and means, but neither am I Enlightened to judge.
Dear Samayatree, you don't need to be enlightened to judge. Actually you are required to judge, all the time. Required as a practitioner. You need to ponder and judge actions and results following the advice of Lord Buddha. This is the basis of the Buddhadharma. The matter that is exclusive object of the Buddha's mind is the actual results of karma in every one and all beings, the intricacy of that extraordinary "computer" where no action is lost ... that, yes, only an enlightened mind can follow.
But you, like all of us, need to judge the Lamas, particularly if you are thinking of taking them as "your" Lama. This is a requirement.
And by implication one needs to be clear in the judgement of somebody who can become the Lama of new people seeking Dharma. They will need also to judge the candidate. So if you are not a fan of the DL's ways and means say it, and in a logical, clear Dharma way, in accord with conventional reality, stating your good Dharma reasons for your "not being a fan".
-
Contaminated Dharma is not Dharma. Dharma is by definition pure and a holy object of refuge
-
Dear all who have taken the time to share their knowledge with me, I do appreciate it very much. Thanks for the link, Protectors Champion. I shall take a good read and then get back to discussing with you once I am done. In relation to judging - I am not sure if I am in a position to judge HH DL, but I am in a position to check my Lama out because I am there with him and I can ask his existing students and get their feedback. With my Lama, I spend time observing him and seeing how he has treated all his students and I look at his students' progress or the results of his progress. From there, I am able to ascertain if he is indeed the right Lama for me. But I do not judge my Lama at all. I still maintain that I am not that enlightened to do so. As in HH DL's case, there is a difference in what I think of him and what I think of the TGIE. To me, they are not the same. DL's motivations and theirs may differ tremendously. As I have written earlier before, if it is without the DL's constant 'promotion' of DS, I would have never come across this Protector at all. In fact, there are so many Deities and Dharmapalas - DS would not have been found out, if not so constantly highlighted by DL. As I have said before, I come into this sacred space to learn and gather new info, not to challenged by people who wish to use big words and their gift of eloquence to intellectualize everything. I am not here for a debate, as I am not going for any Geshe examinations at this point in time. But what I do appreciate is when someone takes the time to share more info and post links to where I could learn more info. If you wish to deliver a Dharma talk, then please state something that is relevant and helpful to me. Readers can easily tell very fast the way a person write - is it just to flex and showcase how intellectual they are and how wonderfully articluate they are - or are the authors truly caring in sharing and giving knowledge and building real undertstanding. A friend becomes a friend when he or she acts like one and speaks like one. And I'd appreciate a friend very much in here, always. THANK YOU.
-
I am not here for a debate,
Well, this is an interesting position. You say that you are not here for a debate.
You are not here only for information either.
You are here to state your opinions, which you have done with a very articulate language.
But to state your opinions and then say "I'm not here for a debate" is not tenable.
Samayatree, we can be all friends even with different opinions. Why equal "opposing opinion" with "enemy"?
I for one will fight your position towards the Dalai Lama with all the might that I can muster from my speech ... and still be your friend.
-
I like that, I really like that - though I am not interested in a fight as you put it but I like learning new things from a friend. Again, I am not here for debate. I would like to enrich my knowledge. That is the purpose of me being here. I clarify again so that you do not need to write another long line about how I want to debate, ok. Now, can you please share more info on your thoughts on DL with facts and data so that we can all learn here. I'd like to read up too or if there are links you can point me to? I'd appreciate that. Then at least, I get to see the different points of view and make my own conclusions. OF course, the same goes with me, I will remain your friend even if I do end up disagreeing with you. And I will still respect you, despite our different views. Thank you.
-
Clarify this for me, please - if people who have misunderstanding of Dharma or who hold wrong views of Dharma, is that not considered contaminated Dharma? Obviously the best is for people to have Dharma and no misunderstanding of it. But if all they have is a misunderstood view of Dharma, is that not better than having no Dharma at all?
-
Samayatree,
It's a good beginning, to accept that we can be friends no matter our opinions.
Please help me spread the concept. I'm not kidding, we have partially lost this concept and it would be so much easier and more pleasant if we could adopt it again. I assume that you have indeed adopted it and this makes me very happy.
To answer your question. Ok, first we have to say that we are talking about Buddhadharma. If we are talking about Buddhadharma then it cannot be contaminated.
But the expression does exist, "to pollute Dharma with wrong views" or something like that. I don't want to mislead you, let me check on this one if I can.
-
Dear A Friend, now I can call you that - a real Dharma Friend :) That makes me very happy too. THANK YOU. I truly appreciate that. I am really new to DS and Dharma. So, I am really hungry for knowledge. I like your way of putting Dharma Logic and awaits with anticipation on how you will present your case against HH DL via Dharma Logic. With respect and humility, thank you. :)
-
Are you new to DS and Dharma? This is a surprise.
The best thing I can advice right now is for you to read Pabongka Rinpoche´s LIBERATION IN OUR HANDS, in Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin with Artemus Engle's version. This version is not only extraordinarily accurate, it also has a treasure house of notes that Engle took at the feet of that great Lama, his Teacher.
Also, an interesting thing about this version is the proximity to the source.
It is said that the closer to the source, the better. Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tharchin, a great Lama with immaculate lineage, received the teachings stated in LIBERATION in the still more extensive version that Lord Pabongka gave during two months, I think. Rinpoche was very young but he had that extraordinary transmission directly from the sublime Master Kyabje Pabongka Deche Ñingpo himself.
Samayatree, I could not give you anything more precious than this suggestion. It can take years to read, analyze and contemplate these holy teachings but the journey is the best any human being can take.
The book is published by MSTP, Mahayana Sutra and Tantra Press: www.mstp.us (http://www.mstp.us)
-
Samayatree,
Though you are a newbie, it's lovely to have you with us - and what a tango you are having with A Friend :) I'm glad to see that we can all be friends and agree to disagree. After all, we are Dharma brothers and sisters. In a forum like this where passions for our dearest Protector can run high, it is easy to lose our equanimity. There are many of the old guard who were here before I joined and I know that several of them have gone through quite a lot that the newer people like us could not begin to understand.
However, being new doesn't mean that our views are not valid, and i am glad that this forum allows all of us to have a voice within the expected decorum of a Dharma forum - where our interaction should be exemplary of the Dharma motivation that we should be driven by - respect, civility and not getting personal in our disagreements.
Going back to the topic at hand - this issue of whether people are pro-Dalai Lama or against him has always been particularly contentious in this forum, so do read some of the older threads. As a newbie, please do read this fabulous commentary by TK: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=1425. I personally find those points very logical and it just makes sense to me.
Love
Kate
-
My dear Protector's Champion,
Having faith in the Dalai Lama is a choice each of us makes. You do not have to have faith in the Dalai Lama to participate in this forum. While I have not experienced the hell you have gone through in your journey with Dorje Shugden and the Dalai Lama, I do have moments of frustration with what the Dalai Lama is doing. I then go back to the article, 'Contemplate This' (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?page_id=46) to find calmness within. I quote from there:
"Those of you who have tremendous obstacles, fearful situations, desperate predicaments, financial woes that hinder your dharma growth and practice should engage in the tremendously quick and efficacious practice of Dorje Shugden. It must be combined with pure Guru devotion, consistent practice of one’s yidam, holding one’s vows and words of honor, no harm should be done to others, respect of all lineages and lineage lamas, teachers and masters. Forgive and forbear those who show enmity and disdain. For that would please the holy mind of the Dharmaphala King of the Three Lokas, Gyelchen Dorje Shugden. Even if one has no confirmed practice, lama or vows, still with good motivation, if one propitiates this holy protector, one can see the benefits. Like anything with time, the help, and mystical intervention of this supreme being will be felt more and more obvious. Especially if one is on the path of the cultivation of Lam Rim realizations. Put your energies not into worry, despair, depression, unnecessary wastage of time, but channel it into the modernly adapted yet supreme practice of this protector."
In this forum, we can express our feelings towards what is going on, but not to be a character assassination of anyone - including the Dalai Lama. I think all of us are well aware of your opinion of the Dalai Lama and I have often expressed that I do empathise. However, I do believe that tempering our anger and frustration and transforming these negative energies are key Dharma practices that we should all strive for and the benefit is ultimately not the Dalai Lama but ourselves.
Wishing you happiness and peace,
love
Kate
-
Dear everyone - especially to Mohani, A Friend and Samayatree,
Firstly, I would like to express my deepest and sincere apologies. I must admit when I first read about how some people wanted to open a mirror site and just abandoned ship like that, so easily - it sparked a defense mechanism within me. As it stands, DS practitioners are already getting bullied in all ways. So, I felt much incensed by how our own members would seemingly do the same. Having said all that, I realise these are just my own perceptions. Whether they are right or wrong, I cannot say. I have no right to say. Whether they themselves understand what they are doing and what their real motivation is, I am also not in a position to judge. As our main practice is always loving kindness, I felt most ashamed that I displayed none of it. As I logged in and read all the posts - especially the conversations between A Friend and Samayatree and how they resovled their differences and ended up friendship, it truly moved me. In addition, when I read Mohani's own post - it brought tears to my eyes. I am sure it is not easy for Mohani to do this. I know it would not be easy for me, personally, if I were Mohani. But I have gained faith and respect in the members of this Forum due to what has happened recently. Sometimes we ourselves may not know how well our sincere intent may be received. Some of us may not even realise whether our intent is sincere or genuine in the first place as well. After much reflection on my own shameful actions, and the kind actions of others in this Forum - my belief and faith in this Forum are deeply reinforced. This website and Forum not only share a treasure of valuable information but it brings people to a higher understanding of one another, and of ourselves. And that is truly amazingly beautiful to me.
I had to re-value my own thoughts and feelings as well. Perhaps this is similiar to what is happening in Dharamsala & TGIE - HH DL may have his own plans in doing what he does with DS - but the ways in which the TGIE has executed those policies have been too extreme. Some may have been over-ruled by their own highly defensive emotions, some may be over-ruled by their own desires for more power and money and some may be just plain confused and are swept by the whole TIDE OF THINGS. Hence, there is a real difference between those who execute and those who issues a statement or policy, or those who want to do something important but the sincerity of the intent is not understood, or even appreciated. So much misunderstanding can arise from it, as can be exemplified by what happened in here. This is just a mirror to our outside world.
It is vry clear to me that I know very little and understand very little. Above all, it is so important that we begin everything with compassion so that we can end with compassion.
I can safely say that no one here is bad or has any ill intent. So many people – oldies or newbies have taken the time to post things and share so much meaningful information and have enriched us all. This Forum is great because of everyone’s collective efforts and dedication to share more. And that is what I truly value most of all.
So, once again, I am deeply sorry to have caused anyone, any grief or discomfort in any which way or form. And I humbly request that we all remember how valuable this Forum this and how important all of us are to this Forum. We are the ones who make this Forum special, every input and every word we put in here – may it all be drenched with loving kindness, and the true motivation to help others understand DS better and the glory of DS.
May this Forum be a haven, be an institution of learning and healing, a place of comfort and solace to anyone who needs and seeks for it.
May this Forum be a sanctuary of friendship, hope and great faith.
May the supreme glory of DS spread into the ten directions from here and change lives.
I shall re-post my comments here in other threads where I have commented so that the people whom my apologies are directed to can read them. This is my only intention and it is not to spam.
Thank you for having me here. It is a joy and priviledge.
May I always strive to behave and speak in a way that reflects my Guru’s teachings and kindness. May I always embody what I aspire to practice through my words. May I strive to be a good example of a student of Dharma and follower of DS.
THANK YOU ALL and have a wonderful day
-
From the very beginning this forum had and is still advocating faith in both HH Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden.
We are on this forum to learn and enhance our Buddhist faith not to be political nor abusive to which side we may be on.
Protector Practice is a personal and private choice which should create uncalled for judgement on both a Buddha and the world's most renowned Monk.
Persevere and pray that we overcome our negativities and have the best solution on the Ban on Dorje Shugden.
-
His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a Chenrezig or Avalokitesvara who is an enlightened Being who sees all. Dorje Shugden is a wrathful emanation of Buddha Manjushri who is Wisdom Buddha. There has been prayers propitiating DS written by the 14th Dalai Lama before the ban was enforced.
There would be this "divine play" which may be the workings of both enlightened Beings to ride us through this degenerate age, where it is said that "religion" and "Buddhism" will go down this way.
So we should pay respect to both and not take sides and keep the faith on both.
-
The 5th Dalai Lama also write prayers to Dorje Shugden and he also moulded a personal statue of Dorje Shugden as well.
So the Dalai lama and Dorje Shugden has had a very long association, so it would be very surprising or a lie if the 14th Dalai lama claims that he did not know the true nature of Dorje Shugden until he checked.
-
This has been predicted even before the ban was implemented, it proves that His Holiness the Dalai Lama does have His own reasons on imposing the ban. We may not see it yet but time will prove everything.