dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: rignga on June 15, 2009, 04:53:35 AM
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I used to write articals for world famous Buddhist Forum Named E-Sangha since 2005.Bust Just last week i was being ban and some my articals were deleted coz' they blame me as like this.
Group: Admin
Posts: 3,023
Member No.: 6,010
Joined: 15-February 05
Please see your warning log:
"Having link to pro-NKT/pro-shugden article in profile.
Next mention of Shugden in chat, pm, link, or post will result in immediate ban."
We are clearly on HHDL's side of this debate. Do not post any links, mention this in PM, or chat again.
Thanks,
The Management
So where is freedom for us.Such a big Forum also do like this.
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Hi Rignga
Here are a couple of links:
http://esangha.110mb.com/index.php
http://newkadampatruth.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/e-sangha-and-sect-bashing-continuation-of-the-cult-smear-history/
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Also see:
http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/ (http://esanghalert.wordpress.com/)
vajralight
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Esangha is notorious for being truly sectarian and autocratic, with untrained moderators who do whatever they want in the forum and bully other moderators into submitting to their will. Luckily they have since imploded sometime in 2009 where the servers mysteriously crashed and the hosting company refused to give them back their backup. Needless to say, if they can spend so much time on criticizing and ripping apart lamas and lineages who dont agree with their views, most of them would probably have no time to train their minds or put into practice the teachings and it is quite evident and I have read it before it went down.
Unfortunately, Dharmawheel is resuming the whole discrimination again and it will slowly devolve into what esangha was before it imploded.
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There is politics everywhere and Dorje Shugden is great fodder for those holier-than-thou people who are gagging for an opportunity to smear others 'legitimately'. Unfortunately, by instituting the Dorje Shugden ban, HH the Dalai Lama has given these online hooligans a completely baseless excuse to bash up a sector of Buddhists. Surely if the ban has basis, people should be allowed to discuss it in a polite manner on supposedly Buddhist forums?
Instead, there are many forums where Dorje Shugden is topic non-grata. Apparently because of the greatly inflamed passions which arise when his very name is mentioned. The only reason i can think of that this happens is because the anti-Shugden vocalists actually have no basis to substantiate the ban, other than because HH the Dalai Lama says so. If people actually stop to think before jumping blindly onto the 'hate-Shugden' bandwagon, that in itself speaks volumes for the case of Shugden practitioners.
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The only reason i can think of that this happens is because the anti-Shugden vocalists actually have no basis to substantiate the ban, other than because HH the Dalai Lama says so. If people actually stop to think before jumping blindly onto the 'hate-Shugden' bandwagon, that in itself speaks volumes for the case of Shugden practitioners.
Wisdom Being,
You hit the nail on the head! If there were sound and solid grounds to institute the ban I am sure the pro-ban people and sites like e-Sangha would be shouting it from the top of the hill. And yet, all they do is stifle any discussion on Dorje shugden much like some religion that regard any questioning of their god as blasphemy.
Its really unfortunate for site such as e-Sangha that on the one hand promote the Dharma but on the other reject the Buddha's advice for learners and practitioners to investigate everything and accept only if what they hear makes sense.
I wonder, why are all these people so afraid?
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@vajratruth, @wisdom being, IMHO, there are a lot for the pro-ban people to afraid that's why they can only do damage control and suppress voices from the other sides.
In no way they will win the debate if they allow a fair and open debate. Whatever they are saying, it is just full of contradictions.
On a side note, when I go to e-sangha.com, there are some programming error messages and I can't get into the site at all...
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e-Sangha is being paranoid...
A forum that supposedly open for all discussion can't limit what others want to post as their opinions. Unless you put it up front that the forum is for Non-Dorje Shugden Buddhists only...
e-Sangha has been very extreme in condemning Vajrayana traditions and now it says it is against Dorje Shugden because they are on HH Dalai Lama side... this is so funny.
e-Sangha has no credibility to be a respectable forum for dharma discussion.
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There is politics everywhere and Dorje Shugden is great fodder for those holier-than-thou people who are gagging for an opportunity to smear others 'legitimately'. Unfortunately, by instituting the Dorje Shugden ban, HH the Dalai Lama has given these online hooligans a completely baseless excuse to bash up a sector of Buddhists. Surely if the ban has basis, people should be allowed to discuss it in a polite manner on supposedly Buddhist forums?
Instead, there are many forums where Dorje Shugden is topic non-grata. Apparently because of the greatly inflamed passions which arise when his very name is mentioned. The only reason i can think of that this happens is because the anti-Shugden vocalists actually have no basis to substantiate the ban, other than because HH the Dalai Lama says so. If people actually stop to think before jumping blindly onto the 'hate-Shugden' bandwagon, that in itself speaks volumes for the case of Shugden practitioners.
I agree too. Words are all they have and they do not have anything else to back them up, other than imaginary facts and twisted truths and they tend to be very imposing on others and people who would support Dorje Shugden. These people are all over the religious forums and Buddhist forums and they will come and clamp down on anyone who supports or talks about Dorje Shugden. This is an example:
http://www.interfaith.org/forum/dorje-shugden-kadampa-dalai-lama-12347.html (http://www.interfaith.org/forum/dorje-shugden-kadampa-dalai-lama-12347.html)
Observe how Tenpel tries to strike mercilessly an TenzinChoje for trying to defend Pabongkha Rinpoche and make him appear cultish for supporting Dorje Shugden. But TenzinChoje stood his ground and did not waiver. Tenpel only has 11 posts and seems to have registered specifically to discredit NKT and Dorje Shugden related issues including Pabongkha Rinpoche. I am not surprised if he was hired by the CTA to do so. Do have fun if you want to by registering and rebutting him. He is one of the many internet warriors that try hard to discredit Dorje Shugden which we will have to encounter.
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Just like the ban on Dorje Shugden, this ban on the forum due to having link to pro-NKT and pro-shugden is without any basis or any fact to support.
Buddha has been teaching us to be open. He was even OK for us to challenge his teaching in order for us to find the truth behind his teaching.
However, the eSangha forum is just blocking people off from its forum just because of different opinions. It is just ridiculous and not open at all!
One of my friend just told me that he stopped volunteering and visiting a nearby Buddhist centre in his city due to other Buddhist Centre said that this centre is practicing evil spirits, i.e. Dorje Shugden. This is just way too much and creating conflicts between the Buddhist communities. So sad to know this. :(
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Dear Rignag,
What happened to freedom of speech??
So what the website is pro-Dalai Lama? If they are confident enough, they would welcome discussion from all angles on every subject. welcome open discussion, respect other people' idea, even though this is NOT what they embrace.
xxx
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Just like the ban on Dorje Shugden, this ban on the forum due to having link to pro-NKT and pro-shugden is without any basis or any fact to support.
Buddha has been teaching us to be open. He was even OK for us to challenge his teaching in order for us to find the truth behind his teaching.
However, the eSangha forum is just blocking people off from its forum just because of different opinions. It is just ridiculous and not open at all!
One of my friend just told me that he stopped volunteering and visiting a nearby Buddhist centre in his city due to other Buddhist Centre said that this centre is practicing evil spirits, i.e. Dorje Shugden. This is just way too much and creating conflicts between the Buddhist communities. So sad to know this. :(
The reason why is because they do know that they lack the facts to actually prove that Dorje Shugden is bad, like what wisdombeing has pointed out. If they were confident of their stance on Dorje Shugden, they would have not needed to ban anyone from the forums and be able to confidently engage in a proper conversation, debate and reasoning with pro Dorje Shugden people or try to drown their voices in the forums and dismiss them as fanatics. they should be able to reason things out. Their inability to do so and their need to drown out voices or implement censorship shows very clearly that they are insecure about their own opinions on that matter.
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They just want to silence us by banning us because they cannot prove beyond any doubt that Dorje Shugden is actually beneficial for the practitioner and also Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition.
They really remind me of the people who would burn books just because they are not able to control the ideas behind them. This shows the worst hypocrisy especially coming from the West, so much for freedom and equality for all. The western ideals are truly dead, it is replaced a false sens of security and an unwillingness to be open to new ideas no matter how diverse such ideas can be. The West used to be a beacon of hope, freedom and democracy it is now a pale shadow of its past, it is now just a pretender of such ideals. If the people in those countries censor, it reflects what the country stands for.
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They just want to silence us by banning us because they cannot prove beyond any doubt that Dorje Shugden is actually beneficial for the practitioner and also Lama Tsongkhapa's tradition.
They really remind me of the people who would burn books just because they are not able to control the ideas behind them. This shows the worst hypocrisy especially coming from the West, so much for freedom and equality for all. The western ideals are truly dead, it is replaced a false sens of security and an unwillingness to be open to new ideas no matter how diverse such ideas can be. The West used to be a beacon of hope, freedom and democracy it is now a pale shadow of its past, it is now just a pretender of such ideals. If the people in those countries censor, it reflects what the country stands for.
Well, when people prefer backwards thinking over progressive thinking to preserve their ignorance and insecurities, we get things like these happening. But then again, it could be also that they are too lazy to clean up remarks from passionate rebuttals from the Nyingma and Kagyu camp of Buddhist fanatics who think that practice is all about sadhanas and not transforming the mind. These people do exist and they are all over the place but they will soon fall off the Buddhist bandwagon as they realize they cannot compare or catch up with those who do their Dharma practice and just abandon Buddhism altogether.
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I can't be judgmental on this, yes its true that we must respect other people, religion or practises. Being respectful is one of the most basic things no matter if we were doing Dharma work or other works. When we go on other people's blog, we must be polite and aware, we don't go around criticising the Lama/ practise or religion of course.
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It is scary that any groups or Forum, claims to be on any side of the debate. For E-Sangha to be on any side disqualifies them as a Forum by definition. A Forum can be formed and have an opinion but also must allow dissenting opinions otherwise it will just amount to fulfilling it own view by forcing out other views and basically living in a box; which is the very cause of suffering as taught by the Buddha; ie Ignorance.
Yes, by not listening to others it stem from and leads to ignorance. However. "wrong" and "right" others might be; it is only through listening, analyzing, debating and contemplating that one can be rid of ignorance.
So, to me E-Sangha is basically practicing ignorance.
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Dear Rignga, if your comments was of logical discussion and not some meaningless bickering over inconsequential and baseless arguments , I don't see why Esangha should be so paranoid. Isn't that what a forum is for: an online site created for the purpose of allowing discussion??
While Esangha, or any forum admin has the right to ban anyone, I think articles and opinions that have a level of proof and logic behind them should be encouraged especially comments with some references to articles and links.
Those who could contribute to a meaningful discussion, regardless of whether it is pro or against any topic creates a thread of interest over a period of time and would actually contribute to our mutual benefit.
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E-Sangha had long been known to be an anti-Shugden online forum. What’s the point of getting upset over being ban when posting Shugden related view on it?
You are not the Administrators, moderators and I presume neither had you paid the bill of maintaining the operations of the servers. We should respect their forum rules set down by the owner; it’s their “playground” and their space to voice out.
Similarly, it’s the same over here in DS forum. The administrator and moderators of this site will impose rules and regulations for all to follow. You can always share you opinion here and they had to respect this sacred space of ours!
IMHO there’s no conflict occurred when both side had mutual respect for each other’s space. I’m sure the opposition camp will be lurking around quite frequently to check out our subject of conversation! ::)
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This also should serve to remind us that we should not bash the Dalai Lama too lest we implode too. We should fight to lift the ban without any lama bashing else we will be no better than the Dalai Lama's followers.
This is a spiritual fight where the dharma is to be learned and practiced. I must confess that sometimes, i too get carried away by emotions which I later regret. So, it's back to the drawing board for me to check my mind!
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E-sangha forum died a long time ago...