dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: Namdrol on February 12, 2012, 06:11:50 PM
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(http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/images/attachement/jpg/site1/20120211/0023ae6cf369109fec2b01.jpg)
BEIJING - Premier (Prime Minister) Wen Jiabao met on Friday with the 11th Panchen Lama Bainqen Erdini Qoigyijabu, in Beijing in Zhongnanhai, the compound containing the offices of both the Central Committee of the Communist Party of China and the State Council.
The 11th Panchen Lama presents a hada, a piece of silk used as a greeting gift for Tibetans, to Premier Wen Jiabao during their meeting in Beijing on Friday. Wen pledged that ethnic autonomy in Tibet will continue, while greater efforts will be made to improve the lives of Tibetan people. Photo by Li Tao / Xinhua
During the meeting, Wen, who is also a member of the Standing Committee of the CPC Central Committee's Political Bureau, offered his well-wishes to the Panchen Lama and all Tibetan compatriots in advance of Tibetan New Year, which will fall on Feb 22.
The premier heard a report by the Panchen Lama on his life and work since he was enthroned 17 years ago. Wen congratulated the Panchen Lama on the marked progress he has made on Buddhist research and cultural aspects, noting that the Panchen Lama has done well as a Living Buddha of the Tibetan Buddhism.
Last year was the 60th anniversary of the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet, and over the past six decades, Tibet has undergone enormous changes as a result of leadership by the Party and the government, assistance from peoples of all nationalities and the hard work and continuous efforts made by the different ethnic groups within Tibet, Wen said.
Talking to the Panchen Lama, the premier pledged that ethnic autonomy will continue in the region and that greater efforts will be made to improve the lives of Tibetan compatriots, as well as protect the environment, the region's cultural traditions and the religious freedom of the Tibetan people.
Wen asked the Panchen Lama to deepen his research on academic works on Buddhist doctrines in an effort to ascertain positive thoughts from Tibetan Buddhist doctrines.
He also asked the Panchen Lama to lead Buddhist lamas and followers in loving the country, abiding by laws and abiding by Buddhist commandments.
He also called on the Panchen Lama to play an even greater role in safeguarding national unification and the unity of all ethnic groups.
Present at the meeting was Du Qinglin, a vice-chairman of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference and director of the United Front Work Department of the CPC Central Committee.
Xinhua
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-02/11/content_14581846.htm (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2012-02/11/content_14581846.htm)
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Now, this is what I'd like to know: Will the 11th Panchen Lama recognized by China embrace the practice of Dorje Shugden, or has he embraced it yet?
The answer is probably in this picture of the 11th Panchen Lama with a thangka of Dorje Shugden.
Oh my!
If we could do a little "back to the future" I think we would definitely understand why the Dalai Lama imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden.
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Now, this is what I'd like to know: Will the 11th Panchen Lama recognized by China embrace the practice of Dorje Shugden, or has he embraced it yet?
The answer is probably in this picture of the 11th Panchen Lama with a thangka of Dorje Shugden.
Oh my!
If we could do a little "back to the future" I think we would definitely understand why the Dalai Lama imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden.
Just so you know the photo with Dorje Shugden is a fake. Its a Photo shop job the actual image was the Feild of merit behind the Panchen Lama.
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Now, this is what I'd like to know: Will the 11th Panchen Lama recognized by China embrace the practice of Dorje Shugden, or has he embraced it yet?
The answer is probably in this picture of the 11th Panchen Lama with a thangka of Dorje Shugden.
Oh my!
If we could do a little "back to the future" I think we would definitely understand why the Dalai Lama imposed a ban on Dorje Shugden.
Just so you know the photo with Dorje Shugden is a fake. Its a Photo shop job the actual image was the Feild of merit behind the Panchen Lama.
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The photograph may or may not be fake. That is a minor issue. That doesn't really matter. What is real is that the previous and current Panchen Rinpoches practice Shugden. If Panchen Lama didn't practice shugden then this picture would be a sort totally unrealistic. But he does practice.
In Tashilunpo Monastery currently (Monastic seat of Panchen Lamas) in Shigatse Tibet has huge chapels to Shugden and Shugden pujas are conducted daily. That is a fact. It is great to know that the highest ranking lama in Tibet/China is practicing Dorje Shugden.
Tashilunpo's Shugden Chapel: http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10969 (http://dorjeshugden.com/wp/?p=10969)
Thaimonk
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Thats not the point Thaimonk its deceptive to present something in such a manner as authentic when it is actually not.
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It was so awesome, when I was visiting Tashi Lungpo Monastery at Shigatse I walked right into their chapel with monks doing Dorje Shugden puja. I have also seen their Dorje Shugden statue in the chapel. Tashi Lungpo Monastery is the seat of Panchen Lamas. Certainly Dorje Shugden is being conducted everyday.
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Thats not the point Thaimonk its deceptive to present something in such a manner as authentic when it is actually not.
Dear Zach,
the motivation is behind the act is not deceptive. Why do Tibetan laymen and monks throw grains and recite JANGCHUP SEMCHOK RINPOCHE/ MAKYEPANAM KYEGYURCHIG/ KYEPA NAMPA MEPAYANG/ GONGNAY GONGDU PHELWAR SHOG? and expect Bodhichitta to rain upon them?
Doing this is no different. We are making aspirations for the Panchen Lama to embrace his previous lives' practice and make it flourish in China in order to benefit sentient beings there. Don't u think life is better this way?
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The photograph may or may not be fake. That is a minor issue. That doesn't really matter. What is real is that the previous and current Panchen Rinpoches practice Shugden. If Panchen Lama didn't practice shugden then this picture would be a sort totally unrealistic. But he does practice.
In Tashilunpo Monastery currently (Monastic seat of Panchen Lamas) in Shigatse Tibet has huge chapels to Shugden and Shugden pujas are conducted daily. That is a fact. It is great to know that the highest ranking lama in Tibet/China is practicing Dorje Shugden.
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I rejoice that the Panchen Lama practices Shugden. This again shows Dorje Shugden is a Buddha. What is happening is that Shugden is blessing the whole world; not just Tibet thanks to the ban.
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Thats not the point Thaimonk its deceptive to present something in such a manner as authentic when it is actually not.
...the motivation is behind the act is not deceptive. Why do Tibetan laymen and monks throw grains and recite JANGCHUP SEMCHOK RINPOCHE/ MAKYEPANAM KYEGYURCHIG/ KYEPA NAMPA MEPAYANG/ GONGNAY GONGDU PHELWAR SHOG? and expect Bodhichitta to rain upon them?
Doing this is no different. We are making aspirations for the Panchen Lama to embrace his previous lives' practice and make it flourish in China in order to benefit sentient beings there. Don't u think life is better this way?
Life will not become better by making forgeries. By lying to others. By misleading others. By reporting untruths. By presenting as true that which is false.
Good wishes are good. But lies are not.
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Wow! These picture speaks a thousand words and open a thousand doors for Shugden practitioners like me. It has been a constant uphill battle for us but we are starting to see more results of sticking through thick and thin with what our practice. To me, this picture tells the whole world ESPECIALLY CTA that
1. China supports Tibetan Buddhism as it is part of the Chinese Culture
2. China supports Panchen Lama, his work & his practices ie SHUGDEN & it will continue to GROW more
3. China recognised that Tibetan Buddhism definitely has values which will create UNITY & HARMONY for the Chinese people
The Chinese GOVERNMENT IS NOT STUPID, they are extremely intelligent. Definitely, they have checked Panchen Lama out thoroughly before they even allow their Prime Minister to meet Panchen Lama. That is common sense. LOOK AT CHINA RESULTS IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. Whatever the government endorses, the people will follow and support.
Someone should send this picture to the CTA with a caption :-
WE HAVE 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE IN CHINA (WORLD BANK STATISTIC IN 2010)
YOU HAVE ONLY 189,000 TIBETANS OUTSIDE CHINA (SIL ENTHOLOGUE REPORT IN 2009) SO WHO IS MORE INFLUENTIAL?
Even if 5% of CHINA population (650,000) follows Panchen Lama, it is BIGGER THAN the Tibetan outside China. And they choose to ignore this. They are barking at the WRONG TREE.
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This news article is great as it shows that the China government is endorsing the works of the Panchen Lama. And that the China Government is supporting Tibetan Buddhism.
When the China Government supports the Panchen Lama, then the Chinese people will follow what their government says. With this the practice of Dorje Shugden will grow also. This is because the Panchen Lama practices Dorje Shugden. It is also China's history and heritage that the Emperor Sun Ji is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden, so it is not something new. The acceptance of Dorje Shugden by the Chinese people would be easier.
With China supporting the Panchen Lama, i think they hope that the Panchen Lama would reciprocate also and start to influence Tibetans to be peaceful and stay united with China.
May this meeting speed up the lift of the ban!
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This news article is great as it shows that the China government is endorsing the works of the Panchen Lama. And that the China Government is supporting Tibetan Buddhism.
When the China Government supports the Panchen Lama, then the Chinese people will follow what their government says. With this the practice of Dorje Shugden will grow also. This is because the Panchen Lama practices Dorje Shugden. It is also China's history and heritage that the Emperor Sun Ji is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden, so it is not something new. The acceptance of Dorje Shugden by the Chinese people would be easier.
With China supporting the Panchen Lama, i think they hope that the Panchen Lama would reciprocate also and start to influence Tibetans to be peaceful and stay united with China.
May this meeting speed up the lift of the ban!
This is the false Panchen Lama. How can a non-Buddhist, non believer of religon such as the Chinese govt find a Tulku. They don't even believe in higher states of mind, reincarnation and the power of Tulkus to choose their rebirth.
How can you choose a candidate of a reincarnated Panchen Lama when you don't even believe there is reincarnation? Does it make sense??
Then once this 'Panchen Lama' is installed by a Communist atheistic govt, the Shugden followers all lavish praises on this Panchen and go and meet him, and further the propaganda. How does it make you look?
Why would you believe in this Panchen hand picked by the Chinese govt? By what spiritual powers authorizes the Chinese govt to select the genuine Panchen Rinpoche?
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Dear Tenzin Gyatso,
Lama Gangchen Rinpoche met this Panchen lama a few years ago, Gangchen Rinpoche is well-known for his clairvoyance, why would he even bother to meet a fake Panchen Lama??? Why?
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Buddhism is promoting peace and harmony, when Wen Jia Bao meeting with 11th Panchen Lama, Premier Wen asked Panchen Lama to deepen his research on academic works on Buddhist doctrines in an effort to ascertain positive thoughts from Tibetan Buddhist doctrines. This shows China has the freedom to practice what you believe in, and not interfering or stopping the growth of it in China. Premier Wen accepted Tibetan Buddhism as part of China and even encourages the growth of Tibetan Buddhism. That is very wise.
It is always very heartwarming to see the leader of a country pay respect to a Lama, how much it explains by just an occasion like this. Dorje Shugden practice is growing in China now and by the support of China, it will still continue to grow bigger and bigger.
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This news article is great as it shows that the China government is endorsing the works of the Panchen Lama. And that the China Government is supporting Tibetan Buddhism.
When the China Government supports the Panchen Lama, then the Chinese people will follow what their government says. With this the practice of Dorje Shugden will grow also. This is because the Panchen Lama practices Dorje Shugden. It is also China's history and heritage that the Emperor Sun Ji is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden, so it is not something new. The acceptance of Dorje Shugden by the Chinese people would be easier.
With China supporting the Panchen Lama, i think they hope that the Panchen Lama would reciprocate also and start to influence Tibetans to be peaceful and stay united with China.
May this meeting speed up the lift of the ban!
This is the false Panchen Lama. How can a non-Buddhist, non believer of religon such as the Chinese govt find a Tulku. They don't even believe in higher states of mind, reincarnation and the power of Tulkus to choose their rebirth.
How can you choose a candidate of a reincarnated Panchen Lama when you don't even believe there is reincarnation? Does it make sense??
Then once this 'Panchen Lama' is installed by a Communist atheistic govt, the Shugden followers all lavish praises on this Panchen and go and meet him, and further the propaganda. How does it make you look?
Why would you believe in this Panchen hand picked by the Chinese govt? By what spiritual powers authorizes the Chinese govt to select the genuine Panchen Rinpoche?
For that being to be picked by the Chinese Government to be the 11th Panchen Lama requires a specific type of karma.
Is he the re-incarnation, is he not? I personally don't know, I can't say. But on the same ground, who am I to say he is not neither?
So I think it is best to keep an open mind before I simply reject everything and inspect the clues.
Of course, we have Gangchen Rinpoche paying his respect to the 11th Panchen Lama.
That is one clue, but if that is not enough, let's also look in the past and see if history can give us some more clues, some tools to put a little bit of perspective, to add some further dimensions to the play.
It is not the first time that the Chinese government interferes with who should be leading Tibetan affairs
I take for example Kelzang Gyatso, the 7th Dalai Lama, who replaced Ngawang Yeshey Gyatso, the 6th Dalai Lama (#2) while he was still alive. The 6th Dalai Lama (#2) was installed by Lha-bzang Khan, a Mongol king, to replace Tsangyang Gyatso, the 6th Dalai Lama (#1) on the ground of misbehavior (there is more to say about that though) while he was still alive also.
from wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Dalai_Lama (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7th_Dalai_Lama)
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Kelzang Gyatso was born in Lithang of Eastern Tibet, in the present-day Garzê Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture of present-day Sichuan province.
At that time, the Dalai Lama's throne in Lhasa was occupied by Ngawang Yeshey Gyatso, who had been installed by as "the real 6th Dalai Lama" in place of Tsangyang Gyatso.
Ngawang Yeshey Gyatso still held this position (though most Tibetans did not consider him to be a legitimate Dalai Lama) when a monk at Litang monastery, spontaneously channeling the Nechung Oracle, identified Kelzang Gyatso as the reincarnation of Tsangyang Gyatso.
Since this presented a contradiction of Lha-bzang Khan's Dalai Lama, it was a controversial matter and potentially dangerous to the child.
Subsequently, the Tibetan leader of a delegation from Lhasa covertly confirmed that the child was Tsangyang Gyatso's reincarnation.
The child was quietly taken into Litang monastery for protection and training.
In 1715, the Qing emperor Kangxi sponsored Kelzang Gyatso's entrance into Kumbum Monastery.
This entrance was marked by formal ceremonies due to a Dalai Lama and thus signified a public challenge to Lha-bzang Khan's Dalai Lama.
He was ordained by Ngawang Lobsang Tenpai Gyaltsen.
The Dzungars invaded Tibet in 1717, deposed Ngawang Yeshey Gyatso, which met with widespread approval, and killed Lha-bzang Khan.
However, they soon began to loot, rape and kill throughout Lhasa, destroying Tibetan goodwill towards them.
They also viciously destroyed a small force sent by Emperor Kangxi in 1718 to support clear traditional trade routes.
A second, larger, expedition sent by Emperor Kangxi, together with Tibetan forces under Polhaney (also spelled Polhanas) of Tsang and Gangchenney (also spelled Kanchenas), the governor of Western Tibet, expelled the Dzungars from Tibet in 1720.
They brought Kelzang Gyatso with them from Kumbum to Lhasa and he was enthroned as the seventh Dalai Lama in the Potala Palace in 1721, or in November 1720.
He took the novice vows of monk-hood from the 5th Panchen Lama Lobsang Yeshi, who gave him the name Kelsang Gyatso.
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I do not mean to debate here the 6th, the second 6th, the 7th or other Dalai Lamas, that is not my point.
My point is that enlightened beings live along sentient beings and work with them, with their delusions, for their good.
There can also be emanations of enlightened beings who do not necessarily live as monks but find themselves in places where they can and will help the growth of the Dharma, whether they know themselves as emanations or not.
I have seen myself, and this is from direct personal account (and confirmed by my Guru), I have seen people born in traditionally non-Buddhist countries, and that had embraced another religion totally still recognize their guru, their lama, and develop devotion without having to change the religion they had embraced in this life and help their guru in a way that would be impossible to do from a Buddhist stand.
We also have examples of very high lamas reincarnating as head of states, and build the ground, build the secular foundation for the Dharma to grow in the future.
Maybe this 11th Panchen Lama is not qualified (I don't know), maybe he isn't, but then perhaps the 12th Panchen Lama will be qualified and recognized without any doubt. So if this is to be, why burn the bridge?
I think, on the matter here we need to apply investigation with an open mind and remain at the service of the bigger picture with Guru devotion and bodhicitta always.
One must always follow the instructions of his Guru with faith.
What must be done must be done for the benefit of others now and for the future generation.
"One is to follow His Guru's instruction with faith, for the merit gained comes from that, not from the action itself."
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This picture speaks thousand words! And the report says it all...
Talking to the Panchen Lama, the premier pledged that ethnic autonomy will continue in the region and that greater efforts will be made to improve the lives of Tibetan compatriots, as well as protect the environment, the region's cultural traditions and the religious freedom of the Tibetan people.
Wen asked the Panchen Lama to deepen his research on academic works on Buddhist doctrines in an effort to ascertain positive thoughts from Tibetan Buddhist doctrines.
He also asked the Panchen Lama to lead Buddhist lamas and followers in loving the country, abiding by laws and abiding by Buddhist commandments.
He also called on the Panchen Lama to play an even greater role in safeguarding national unification and the unity of all ethnic groups.
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The Chinese PM - Wen Jiabao meeting the Panchen Lama shows that the Chinese Govt supports spirituality and FREEDOM of Religion :) I believe this a huge mark that tells us the PRC is making great effort for harmony amongst their people/nation, and especially the Tibetans. Most monasteries i.e Tashi Lungpo as mentioned by thaimonk in China's Tibet are allowed to go on their marry way with their own lineage and practices. Dorje Shugden practice is still happening there - there is no problems there. No ban and no disharmony there. Seems like there is more Freedom in China's Tibet now then in Dharamsala for Tibetan in exile.
If the CTA have 1/3 of some wisdom, they would realise what a totally nonsensical ban and problems they have self created that causes disunity amongst their own people whom they wish for support. Secular wise and political wise it does not serve them. So the banning Dorje Shugden just creates more confusion and seperation amongst their own people. Very sad indeed.
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Wow! This pictures says a lot about who this monk is. I am talking in the sense that this monk who claims to be the incarnation of Panchen Lama is taking on his predecessors footsteps. Even in such a young age, he is already meeting with leaders and obviously trying to secure the spiritual freedom of the Tibetan people. He is doing a lot within China and his work will grow and grow.
I don't know if he is the real incarnation but his every move seem to increase the Dharma within China. Even if he is denounced as a fake Panchen Lama incarnation but his Dharmic works are increasing, that show his level of commitment to the Dharma. I think he understands it is crucial that he hobnobs more and more with the Chinese leaders as this will ensure the continued success of the resurgence of Buddhism within Tibet/China. Thanks to the Dalai Lama's efforts, the effort will be concentrated mainly on Dorje Shugden.
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Quote from Tenzin Gyatso -
"This is the false Panchen Lama. How can a non-Buddhist, non believer of religon such as the Chinese govt find a Tulku. They don't even believe in higher states of mind, reincarnation and the power of Tulkus to choose their rebirth."
A lot of people can't understand why Dalai Lama aka Chenrizig inflicted so much pain and suffering to DS practitioners of his own lineage when he preaches universal compassion and promotes interfaith harmony. Some people think he is fake, some lose faith in the religion because of what he's done to DS followers.
I choose to see the results of his actions. After all these years, no one can deny that HHDL has done more for Buddhism than any other Buddhist leaders. Therefore, I respect him and sincerely pray for his long life.
If the 11th Panchen Lama can bring spirituality to 1.3billion people in China , I don't care who recognized him. To me, he is the real Mc Coy.
After all ,Buddha Shakyamuni didn't have any high lama to recognize him ;)
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Seeing this picture, I feel a sense of relief. Reasons, the purpose of of these High Lamas/Monks taking ordination to be a Sangha member is to benefit others.
If there are so many restrictions of who they can't meet, how they should speak, their ways of transmitting the Dharma, HOW ARE THEY GOING TO BENEFIT OTHERS?
This picture shows the 11th Panchen Lama with the Premier of China, Wen Jiabao. For many years now, people have been criticizing Tibetans and especially Tibetan Lamas of working with the Chinese for reasons only they themselves can understand (ie silly/selfish reasons). In my opinion, these Lama ONLY want to do work to benefit others. They do not care about politics or any other selfish reasons. But for most people, they can't even understand this simple point.
China has more than 1 billion citizens. It is such a huge potential for the Panchen Lama to reach out to spread peace, unity, compassion besides spreading Buddhism. This picture will give confidence to many people out there to speak out, stand up to do good.
Also, People will think, the Panchen Lama is willing to do anything even to meet China leaders, putting his reputation at risk. So this will inspire more people to do the same. They will put their egos down, put aside their attachments and get down dirty to do work that benefit others. Only this way, we will improve, we will care more for others.
This picture really speaks a thousand words.
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I believe either the 11th Panchen Lama real or fake it really doesn't matter. What matters is the monk robes, the study behind, the vows, the intelligence, the understanding of sutra and tantra, and most important the lineage and the practices. I personally don't think China is that stupid, the fact they have selected this particular Panchen Lama must have a deeper reason behind.
Now, when Wen Jiabao personally meeting Panchen Lama and recognized his work, brought a new light into the scene. Not only the Chinese has shown respect to the practice of Tibetan Buddhism and Tibetans, indirectly the Chinese has recognized the practice of Tibetan Buddhism in China and would like to gain more information on the subject. China is not stupid, they must have done years of study and research to take this very step. What is the motive? I don't know. All I can guess is they "want" to have full control over Tibet in every aspect.
By doing that, in fact China is getting all the benefits. But soon, China will be a powerful country and it has always been the most important country for Buddhism. How Tibetan Buddhism grows in China is accelerating the dharma to many intelligent, powerful chinese. From there, it will unite the nation with core Buddhism practice. I believe this is what every country is seeking for, unity, peace and harmony. It may all seem politically incorrect now, but soon it'll be faded. That is why all these high lamas worked tirelessly all these while to bring dharma to others, no doubt.
This is the beginning of the light, the truth will be revealed soon.
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Ironically, like HH the 14th Dalai Lama, the 11th Panchen Lama is scrutinized and criticized for political issues. When will we stop letting politics seep into the spiritual arena? We keep saying HH is combining Dharma with politics but do we not know that we, the lay followers are also culprits to the same “crime”? Are we not the pot calling the kettle black? Enough already!
Like Big Uncle says, let’s focus constructively on the tangible benefits these great beings have created through their effort. HH brought Buddhadharma to the world when he left Tibet 50 years ago. In the past 5 decades, Buddhadharma has graced many nations but one: The People’s Republic of China. Why? It is due to HH’s political status with China.
50 years ago, it was not significantly urgent for Buddhadharma to bless the nation of China. However, in the past 20 years, as China rose and revealed its potential to become the world powerhouse, it became clear that it was time for Buddhadharma to return to motherland China. I believe that this was the time when HH started to cook up the controversy in the form of the Dorje Shugden ban.
Why create a controversy? The drama is needed because HH can never spread Dharma to China consequent to His political relations with China. If HH cannot bring Dharma to China directly, maybe He can through reverse psychology: by discouraging it…by banning it! This goes back to explaining and reinforcing the debate argument that the ban is a part of a bigger picture that will bring ultimate benefit.
Besides creating the ban, HH has to pass the spiritual baton to someone (as he has already done so for His secular work). So, who would China accept? Certainly not someone picked by the Dalai Lama! How about someone the Dalai Lama does NOT recognize? A possibility arises. How can this someone be created? By creating a diversion of a “fake” Panchen Lama.
Panchen Lama, Dalai Lama, Dorje Shugden...these are just names that are created to make sense to our unattained minds. The importance and ultimate goal is for Buddhadharma to flourish to bless and benefit all sentient beings. If it takes a “fake” Panchen Lama that is recognized, endorsed and supported by the Chinese government to achieve this goal, then so be it.
So, with this controversial setting of a “fake” Panchen Lama , Buddhadharma finds its way back to China.
As China continue to rise and influence the world economically, politically and socially, Buddhadharma will flourish to more parts of the world…maybe even Africa as China is developing a strong presence there. Is this not our aspiration?: “May the precious Boddhi-mind, where it is not born arise and grow; May that born have no decline but increase forever more”.
Thus, in summary, if our motivation as Buddhists is to have Dharma bless more people, this seems like the way to go. After all, we are in the 21st century where achieving the desired end result, which is for Buddhadharma to flourish, is of vital importance. Conclusion, I rejoice to see Premier Wen Jia Bao meet with Panchen Lama.
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Dear Tenzin Gyatso,
Lama Gangchen Rinpoche met this Panchen lama a few years ago, Gangchen Rinpoche is well-known for his clairvoyance, why would he even bother to meet a fake Panchen Lama??? Why?
Dear Tenzin Gyatso,
LET ME SHOW U ANOTHER LATEST PICTURE. IT WAS ONLY TAKEN LAST YEAR IN 2011. IT WAS TAKEN WITH GADEN TRISUR. WHY WOULD THE EX-AMBASSADOR OF TSONGKHAPA WHO REPRESENT THE WHOLE GELUGPA LINEAGE TAKE A PICTURE WITH PANCHEN LAMA IF HE IS FAKE.
If you want more information, please read this
http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1290.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1290.0)
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This is the false Panchen Lama. How can a non-Buddhist, non believer of religon such as the Chinese govt find a Tulku. They don't even believe in higher states of mind, reincarnation and the power of Tulkus to choose their rebirth.
How can you choose a candidate of a reincarnated Panchen Lama when you don't even believe there is reincarnation? Does it make sense??
Then once this 'Panchen Lama' is installed by a Communist atheistic govt, the Shugden followers all lavish praises on this Panchen and go and meet him, and further the propaganda. How does it make you look?
Why would you believe in this Panchen hand picked by the Chinese govt? By what spiritual powers authorizes the Chinese govt to select the genuine Panchen Rinpoche?
Why would I believe this Panchen Lama who was selected by the Chinese govt?
- I have no clue whether this Panchen Lama is real or not, but like Hope Rainbow, i believe in HE Gangchen Rinpoche and since Gangchen Rinpoche is endorsing this Panchen Lama, it is not a great leap of faith to also believe in this Panchen Lama.
- I also believe that the Panchen Lama can emanate in many forms. There are other controversial examples of Lamas who may have two or more emanations, such as the Karmapa, Dromo Geshe Rinpoche, and even Tulku Drakpa Gyeltsen. The Panchen Lama is no different. Who is to say that the one selected by China is NOT an emanation of the Panchen Lama?
- The China recognised Panchen Lama, who is now publicly endorsed by Premier Wen Jia bao, will have freedom to share Dharma with China. What a powerful position. And this Panchen Lama is not restricted by the Dalai Lama on Dorje Shugden practice. See the fantastic Shugden chapel in Tashi Lhunpo! Instead of criticising this Panchen Lama, why not support and see what he will achieve?
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This is great news ever since HHDL announced the ban!
We all can see china became the key country now and future in the world, many countries is following china footstep. So such as top important person Wen jiabao meets with panchen lama is consider official accepted and welcome vajrayana buddhism flourish in china. On top of that panchen lama did practise DS. ;D
The number is not only 1.2billions china people , how about westerner ? These days many westerner learning mandarin and get to know china history and cultures. This will also lead people to buddhism practises regarding lama tsongkapa and DS. All is inter connection.
Rejoice!
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I do not think it is important if the picture is a forgery or not but I am sure whoever did it would have good motivation, the motivation of fighting for free religious rights, the motivation to lift the ban on Dorje Shugden’s practice, the motivation that Tibetans who are practicing Dorje Shugden to be not further persecuted and treated as pariahs among their own people. So, I would not debate about a teeny weeny picture when the real issue is still unresolved.
If HE Lama Gangchen Rinpoche met with this Panchen Lama, then I do not need to think or debate anymore.
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What matters is that this 11th Panchen Lama has been 'endorsed' by 2 great Masters of the Gelug Lineage, Gangchen Rinpoche and Gaden Trisur. As Panchen Lama, he is second only to the Dalai Lama as Spiritual Leader of Tibetan Buddhism. His main role is to preserve and spread the Buddhadharma. If he also has the endorsement of China's political leaders(and in this instance, it is Wen Jiabao, China's Premier), then it makes his work in spreading the Dharma in populous China, the great powerhouse of the world.so much easier.
This picture speaks a million words and augurs well for the spread of Shugden practice and for the spread of Dharma in China. (It has already been verified in another thread that the Panchen Lama does practice Dorje Shugden and to spread Shugden is to spread the lineage teachings of Je Tsongkapa ).
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Wow! A revolutionary photo, showing the penetration and acceptance of Tibetan Buddhism into China! The prime minister of China meeting the 11th Panchen Lama shows that he respects and recognizes the works of the Panchen Lama in spreading and upholding the Buddhist doctrine. It is so important, to have the prime minister meet such a high lama of the Gelug lineage, creating the causes in widespread acceptance of Tibetan Buddhism in the future within China. From there, it will spread to the world.
Whether the Panchen Lama in discussion here is fake or not, doesn't matter. What matters is the result it has, and it is acknowledged here, by the Prime Minister of China.
I would also like to quote from the article:
"Talking to the Panchen Lama, the premier pledged that ethnic autonomy will continue in the region and that greater efforts will be made to improve the lives of Tibetan compatriots, as well as protect the environment, the region's cultural traditions and the religious freedom of the Tibetan people."
Even China is pledging for the religious freedom of the Tibetan people. What is the CTA doing for its people?
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After reading this article, i felt very heartened... that although the China have been pushing forward very hard and fast for economic progress and the country is growing in leaps and bounds, its leader has not forgotten that spiritual wealth is just as important as material wealth.
PM Wen Jiabao establishing connections with the 11th Panchen Lama at the almost-height of China's success is a strong indication that yes, we want progress, we want development, we want wealth and prosperity... but we also want Buddhism! We have not forgotten the religion practised and passed down by our forefathers and which survived the Cultural Revolution!
It is really important that the people of China remains grounded with Buddhism.. because they might just take over the world one day :P
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Reading the article and looking at the pic shows the open door of Tibetan Buddhism to spread in China. With the huge amount of people, there are so many to be benefited! is a WOW!
This also show the acknowledgment of the China government accepting Tibetan Buddhism. Premier Wen had mentioned their concern of toward the country and I believe he is giving hint on the direction or angle of how the Buddhist teaching should be benefitted for the government & the people.
China very particular in harmony of the country, their fabulous and ancient culture as well as the unity of the country.
Personally I have no question whether 11th Pachen Lama is the fake one, I believe in the great master.
The pic of Gangchen Rinpoche acknowledge the 11th Panchen Lama said everything. No question for this High Lama with so much of his great work.
I strongly believe of the blessing from Lord Shugden that make this happen and for Pachen Lama will open this door of China for more opportunity for the Great Lord Shugden practice to benefit the Chinese.
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WoW, the Premier of China meeting with the 11th Panchen Lama in the grounds of Zhongnanhai, Beijing, the highest ground of authority in China.
The second most powerful man in China requesting research and study into Tibetan Buddhism is such a great affirmation to the logical and authentic doctrine of Lama Tsongkapa. I am blessed to have the opportunity to follow this doctrine.
With China's growth as a world super power, may China once again take ownership of this very powerful religious doctrine and let her population of 1.3 billion have a better life spiritually.
Imagine with one sixth of the world population practising Gelup tradition, what will happen to the Ban of Protector Dorje Shugden? Disappear!
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As China continue to rise and influence the world economically, politically and socially, Buddhadharma will flourish to more parts of the world…maybe even Africa as China is developing a strong presence there.
I had never thought of this, but it is a reality, China's presence is very strong in Africa and going stronger!
Through Chinese influence, the Buddha Dharma finds a way to connect to Africans. And there will be practitioners taking rebirth as African to assist in the growth of the Buddha's teachings in Africa and making the Dharma African just like it has been westernized by some lamas of the Tibetan diaspora...
Interesting perspective indeed!
And who do we thank for this? HHDL and his entourage for the ban in the first place, Dorje Shugden and his entourage for creating the causes for the ban to be lifted, and yes indeed, the 11th Panchen Lama also, however un-recognized He is by some. Results show and will show more.
Thank you for pointing this out SP, and for widening my perspectives.
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Whether the Panchen Lama is chosen by Tibetans or Chinese may be relevant from the perspective of tradition but not so relevant from a religious perspective. I read some of the post comments and I could not help but wonder whether those disputing the "authenticity" of the Panchen Lama are also claiming that the Buddhism that is spreading in China is not authentic. Are these critics saying that the Buddha's teachings that will spread even more as the result of good relations between the Panchen Lama and China, is not real?
And what is more important? To adhere to tradition or to see to the spread of dharma through whatever skillful means are required to achieve that purpose?
So often we get caught up in the details and lose sight of what is important. What is truly important here is the fact that the Buddha's teachings is spreading fast to the most populous country in the world and a country that is fast gaining strong political and social influence throughout the world.
Look at the influence of China. Look at the Euro Debt Crisis and the rest of the world economy. Isn't it a good thing that the Buddha's Teaching is finding a tremendously powerful sponsor?
And what does this also mean for the spread of the great practice of Dorje Shugden?
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After reading this post, I went on and did a search on Panchen Lama, From Wikipedia, it says that initially HHDL has recognized Gedhun Choekyi Nyima as the re-incarnated 11th Panchen Lama but China denied this statement and they selected Gyaincain Norbu (aka Bainqen Erdini Qoigyijabu) as the 11th Panchen Lama.
My point of mentioning this issue is, whether or not he is the real Panchen Lama is not important, but it clearly shows that China will promote all the way for whatever HHDL is against it. So it means When HHDL ban for Dorje Shugden, vice versa, Dorje Shugden is very well promoting in China, the government even support the monastery of DS practitioner.
Whether this 11th Panchen Lama is real or fake, I don’t think this is so important because for the facts that he has done a lot for spreading Tibetan Buddhism in China, he is definitely a wonderful Lama that China is having now.
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Wow! It's good to know the the Prime Minister encouraging the Panchen Lama to continue spreading and safeguarding Tibetan Buddhism. Personally, it doesn't matter if this Panchen Lama is fake or not. He is a monk, holds His vows, spreading the teachings of Buddha and now China's PM is acknowledging His work and in a way promoting Buddhism in a communist country. Isn't that something to be proud of? Don't you think that with this ban, China went all the way against it, proved that more people actually got to know Lord DS? Whatever it is, our main objective is for CTA and HHDL to lift the ban ASAP! Not contemplating on a picture on whether it is fake or not, whether the Panchen Lama is fake or not. There is also a book on which the author wrote that even HHDL is fake. Our motivation is solely for the ban to be lifted!
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This news article is great as it shows that the China government is endorsing the works of the Panchen Lama. And that the China Government is supporting Tibetan Buddhism.
When the China Government supports the Panchen Lama, then the Chinese people will follow what their government says. With this the practice of Dorje Shugden will grow also. This is because the Panchen Lama practices Dorje Shugden. It is also China's history and heritage that the Emperor Sun Ji is a practitioner of Dorje Shugden, so it is not something new. The acceptance of Dorje Shugden by the Chinese people would be easier.
With China supporting the Panchen Lama, i think they hope that the Panchen Lama would reciprocate also and start to influence Tibetans to be peaceful and stay united with China.
May this meeting speed up the lift of the ban!
This is the false Panchen Lama. How can a non-Buddhist, non believer of religon such as the Chinese govt find a Tulku. They don't even believe in higher states of mind, reincarnation and the power of Tulkus to choose their rebirth.
How can you choose a candidate of a reincarnated Panchen Lama when you don't even believe there is reincarnation? Does it make sense??
Then once this 'Panchen Lama' is installed by a Communist atheistic govt, the Shugden followers all lavish praises on this Panchen and go and meet him, and further the propaganda. How does it make you look?
Why would you believe in this Panchen hand picked by the Chinese govt? By what spiritual powers authorizes the Chinese govt to select the genuine Panchen Rinpoche?
We understand your concern on whether the Panchen Lama is genuine or not as he is selected by the Chinese Government.
However, I choose to look at it this way. Whether the Panchen Lama is real or not, he is spreading Buddhism to the world and he is doing it in the most populous country in the world and a place where Buddhism once flourish. And now, that he has the backing of the Chinese government, his world will be come fruitful. I, as a Buddhist, would love to see Buddhism grow to all parts of the world.
The Panchen Lama is wearing monk robes and is bound by his Bodhisattva vows! So, he is a genuine monk. He is teaching the real Buddhadharma to people.
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Wow! These picture speaks a thousand words and open a thousand doors for Shugden practitioners like me. It has been a constant uphill battle for us but we are starting to see more results of sticking through thick and thin with what our practice. To me, this picture tells the whole world ESPECIALLY CTA that
1. China supports Tibetan Buddhism as it is part of the Chinese Culture
2. China supports Panchen Lama, his work & his practices ie SHUGDEN & it will continue to GROW more
3. China recognised that Tibetan Buddhism definitely has values which will create UNITY & HARMONY for the Chinese people
The Chinese GOVERNMENT IS NOT STUPID, they are extremely intelligent. Definitely, they have checked Panchen Lama out thoroughly before they even allow their Prime Minister to meet Panchen Lama. That is common sense. LOOK AT CHINA RESULTS IN THE LAST 10 YEARS. Whatever the government endorses, the people will follow and support.
Someone should send this picture to the CTA with a caption :-
WE HAVE 1.3 BILLION PEOPLE IN CHINA (WORLD BANK STATISTIC IN 2010)
YOU HAVE ONLY 189,000 TIBETANS OUTSIDE CHINA (SIL ENTHOLOGUE REPORT IN 2009) SO WHO IS MORE INFLUENTIAL?
Even if 5% of CHINA population (650,000) follows Panchen Lama, it is BIGGER THAN the Tibetan outside China. And they choose to ignore this. They are barking at the WRONG TREE.
I agree with shugden promoter. The Chinese Government is highly intelligent. I'm not surprised they are reading this website and are also taking part in this forum. Endorsing the Panchen Lama is a positive sign for the growth of Buddhism in China. As shugden promoter stated, "Whatever the government endorses, the people will follow and support."
There are debates that this Panchen Lama is fake and is China's puppet. If this is true, then this Panchen Lama will still have to fake it and continue what the previous Panchen Lama was practicising. Since the previous Panchen Lama practised Dorje Shugden, then this "fake" Panchen Lama will have to practise the same.
So if this "fake" Panchen Lama is currently practising Dorje Shugden and China endorses him, then millions of Chinese will follow what this "fake" Panchen Lama practises!!! Shugden still wins!:-)
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For me the picture of Chinese PM meeting Panchen Lama speaks a thousand words. I am not interested in whether this 11th Panchen Lama is the real incarnation of Panchen Lama or not. As has been stated in many Buddhist books, enlightened beings can many incarnations for the purpose of benefiting others.
For me, what this person, incarnation or not, has done to bring benefits to others, that command respects.
I think the picture has the following significance:
- The Chinese government acknowledge that Buddhist doctrines are very important in winning over Tibetans. Looking at the history of red army, the cultural revolution, and materialsm, their communist beliefs, it is very amazing form PM Wen to acknowledge that Buddhist doctrines are important and worth a deeper look.
- It represents a huge opportunity for Buddhism to be spread in China
- As the Chinese give a deeper look to Buddhist doctrines and could not find faults in it, the bigger chance for them to embrace it. 1.3 billion people in China will be impacted and they respected their government.
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This article truly reinforces the "greater picture" purpose of the ban - to promote Tibetan Buddhism and to help spread the Shugden practice in China. Before the ban, the Chinese were only interested in annihilating any desidents calling for freedom. Remember Tiananmen Square? Hundreds were killed by the Chinese soldiers. And they wouldn't blink an eye to destroy Tibet if the Tibetans continued to fight for their automony from China. But when the ban came into play, Tibetans became divided and fought among themselves, and this took their focus away from their cause for freedom. Though on the surface this split created a lot of hardships and pain for the Tibetans, but it ironically saved them from being massacred by the Chinese.
Today we see a completely different picture. The growth and spread of Tibetan Buddhism in China and in turn the increasing popularity of the Shugden practice. China today is actually trying to forge better relations with Tibetans and promoting better living conditions for them.
Some of us mentioned the "bigger picture" theory of HHDL's ban of Shugden practice. For me, this is the bigger picture - HHDL wanted to save the Tibetans from total annihilation and instead spread the Shugden practice to 1.3 billion people on this planet.
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Dear Tenzin Gyatso,
Lama Gangchen Rinpoche met this Panchen lama a few years ago, Gangchen Rinpoche is well-known for his clairvoyance, why would he even bother to meet a fake Panchen Lama??? Why?
Dear Tenzin Gyatso,
LET ME SHOW U ANOTHER LATEST PICTURE. IT WAS ONLY TAKEN LAST YEAR IN 2011. IT WAS TAKEN WITH GADEN TRISUR. WHY WOULD THE EX-AMBASSADOR OF TSONGKHAPA WHO REPRESENT THE WHOLE GELUGPA LINEAGE TAKE A PICTURE WITH PANCHEN LAMA IF HE IS FAKE.
If you want more information, please read this
[url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1290.0[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=1290.0[/url])
This is so true why would Lama Gangchen and Trisur Rinpoche or anyone wants to visit a fake Panchen Lama. They have better things to do than to pay respect to a fake Panchen Lama. China is intelligent, has a large population and is world influential. China command respect from every country in the world. What can Tibetan do now? They only divide and cause suffering to their own people by banning Dorje Shugden practice.
Tibetans can never have independence as they are not united. They should lift the dorje shugden ban and win all the Tibetans to fight a common goal.
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This is so true why would Lama Gangchen and Trisur Rinpoche or anyone wants to visit a fake Panchen Lama. They have better things to do than to pay respect to a fake Panchen Lama. China is intelligent, has a large population and is world influential. China command respect from every country in the world. What can Tibetan do now? They only divide and cause suffering to their own people by banning Dorje Shugden practice.
Tibetans can never have independence as they are not united. They should lift the dorje shugden ban and win all the Tibetans to fight a common goal.
So we can say here that there is a lot of proof that China's Panchen Lama is the real one and the one that HHDL has chosen is just a distraction of sorts for the Chinese? If I remember correctly, real tulkus will find a way to teach no matter what happens and for the Dalai Lama's candidate to sink into silence with no news at all is rather odd and unusual. China may be powerful, but they cannot stop enlightened beings from manifesting.