dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: mountains on February 09, 2008, 07:02:46 AM
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I AM SORRY TO WRITE THE BELOW, BUT MUST INFORM EVERYONE OF THE DIRE SITUATIONS IN SOUTH INDIA.
1. 420 out of 450 monks of Dokhang Khangten of Shartse refuse to be involved in the picking of the coloured sticks referendum regarding Dorje Shugden's practice. They have opted to pull out of Gaden Shartse Monastery and move away. They are discussing what to do regarding Dokhang khangtsen's prayer hall. That means 420 monks are withdrawing from Shartse completely. They have requested for land to move out to. Trijang Rinpoche and the current Gaden Tripa are both from Dokhang khangtsen.
None of the Dokhang Monks are getting food from the main monastery of Shartse anymore since HH the Dalai Lama instructed all to not participate in anything communal with Dorje Shugden people within the Monastery.
2. Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche has commented to one monk in the US that HH Dalai Lama has gone too far with this Dorje Shugden issue to the point of monks having to leave.
3. HH Dalai Lama ordering all Gelug Institutions (Gaden, Sera, Drepung) to place a Guru Rinpoche statue in their main prayer halls. It is a requirement now.
4. Pomra Khangtsen (600 or so monks) are also not getting any food from the main Sera Mey Monastery due to HH Dalai Lama's injunctions. HH advised the Monasteries not to be involved with anyone who does any sort of Shugden practice. Should not pray, eat or debate with them.
5. Very sad, but within Sokpa khangtsen of Gaden Shartse Monastery, there are Tibetan Government Informants. HH Dalai has mentioned that he will listen to no one in Shartse except Sokpa khangtsen. If Sokpa khangtsen says that Shartse is free of Dorje Shugden pratitioners, then only will HH believe otherwise he will not. There are 11 khangtsens in Gaden Shartse. Why does HH take the word of only Sokpa Khangtsen? Because Sokpa khangtsen monks are traditionally from Amdo province of Tibet. The amdos monks of this khangtsen in the past do not have a strong tradition of Dorje Shugden practice but nor were they against it till recently. Also Tibetans are very provincially biased. HH the Dalai Lama is from Amdo, the monks of Sokpa are biased in that way it seems. Some Amdos have argued they are not Tibetans but Amdo people which are distinct from Tibetans.
Seeing monks forced to turn against eachother within their own monasteries is truly very sad and primitive legacy of the Tibetan Exile government. Also the Great Monasteries breaking apart within after 600 years history due to all of this.
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HH.13th Kundeling en Ven. Geshe Konchog Gyaltsen have given a press conference at Delhi about the newest developments in the Dorje Shugden Issues. I am waiting for the press releas from the Dorje shugden Society.
This morning I got the latest news from Delhi, saying
Jan.9th. The referendum begun at 6.30 AM in Shartse monastery. Representative of Bangalore and Mundgods, Tri Rimpoche and so on presided the process. Each monk picked up the stick and entered the assembly hall. The monks from monastic sections in order were called up and each monk stood up by the microphone and reads: "I.......take a volunteer oath without doubt of making a clear decision to relinquish the religious and material amenities of live [live together] with Dholgyal followers, whoever he is, from now onward".
no comment sumati arya
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News from India. Thursday 14th of February 2008 : 20.05
"The great prayer festival is not hold today. The mess of Sera Mey monastery has not yet open. there is a general meeting inShartse monastery, where they discussed about the replacement of staffs occupied by Shartse monks. Dhokang monks approched the aboot to inform him that Dokang would deny any decision in the monastery, before they solve the Dokhang problem. Aboot said, don't press on me, I am an old monk, you take part in the meeting, and explain your position. So he declared, you cannot make any decision untill you resolve the issue with Dhokhang Khamtsen."
sumati arya
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All the problems here are inevitable. This is all part of the Dalai Lama's plan to spread Dorje Shugden's practice. I bet that wherever he is, deep in his heart he is sad that, even though, he is trying to benefit others, people are getting hurt in the process and he only thinks that all this news will create awareness of Dorje Shugden's practice.
I heard of the colored stick thing but I find it very weird and I think that they should not be just separating the monks like that. It is very un-Buddhist of them to turn monks against each other.
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It is indeed so sad to hear of this bad news. If the situation is becoming worse, Can Dorje Shugden practioners from Gaden Monastery move over to Shar Garden - just like milk be transferred from a cracked cup to a good cup?
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Thank you Icy for this not such good news...
I can only imagine what must be going through the minds of the 420 monks of Gaden Shartse (Dhokang Khangsten)??? and their Representatives looking to sort out what sounds like a complicated situation...to be sorted out in good time???
I pray that some sort of result is achieved asap so at the very least the needs of 420 monks needs can be met immediately. We all benefit so much from this website, benefit so much from our holy teachers and the precious DS Lineage, is their any way we can show our support by financial or otherwise at this time of URGENT NEED???
Is it a matter of contacting administrators directly to see how or awaiting further updates as to what help is required in the short term???
xox
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Guys, I think ilikeshugden resurrected an old post, and the Dokhang Khangtsen Monks have left Gaden Shartse to form Shar Gaden that is flourishing now. Dokhang Khangtsen being the biggest of the Gaden monastery says a lot of the damage done to Gelug tradition as a result of the ban. Still I do rejoice for the Shar Gaden monks they are doing many things to further the Buddhist doctrine.
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I heard form some friends who have visited Shar Gaden recently that Shar Gaden is doing well now a few years into the ban. There are more monks joining the monastery and there are insufficient places to stay. A new monk living quarters are being built now and is 3/4 complete.
My friends also told me that the monks in Shar Gades still have the photo of H.H Dalai Lama at their alrtars despite the ban. This is because they still respect H.H. Dalai Lama as their guru no matter what. This is how sincere they are.
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I heard form some friends who have visited Shar Gaden recently that Shar Gaden is doing well now a few years into the ban. There are more monks joining the monastery and there are insufficient places to stay. A new monk living quarters are being built now and is 3/4 complete.
My friends also told me that the monks in Shar Gades still have the photo of H.H Dalai Lama at their alrtars despite the ban. This is because they still respect H.H. Dalai Lama as their guru no matter what. This is how sincere they are.
Wonderful news to hear and such rejoicing news to hear that you were able to visit Shar Gaden. I think news of them having so many monks joining that they're running out of space is perhaps, in some way, a "good" problem to have? It shows clearly the unmistaken growth of the lineage, in spite of all their obstacles, attacks, alienation and lack of support from their own people. How wrong / bad/ evil can something be, if it is resulting in the increase of sangha, practice and physical expansion of a monastic institution? Karmically, this is not logical - something bad cannot give rise to something good and vice versa.
Wonderful (though not totally unexpected) to hear that they still have photos of the Dalai Lama and pay such deep respects to him still. Like I said in just a few previous posts, their loyalty and devotion, despite everything, is testament enough to their level of practice and attainment. Few people could maintain such devotion in the face of so much pressure. They show us a perfect example of Guru devotion - that even if they are being "put down" and ostracised by their own Guru (or so it seems) and not able to see him anymore or receive teachings, they still hold him in high regard and still remember always that he is their Guru.
They are also practising exactly as Trijang Rinpoche ( our lineage guru and of course, the Dalai Lama's own Guru) had advised and predicted - that at a future time, it may appear that there is conflict between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, but that we must not take sides and remain patient in our practice. What a perfect example for us to follow, not just in this instance but in every aspect of our practice and encounters.
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I heard form some friends who have visited Shar Gaden recently that Shar Gaden is doing well now a few years into the ban. There are more monks joining the monastery and there are insufficient places to stay. A new monk living quarters are being built now and is 3/4 complete.
My friends also told me that the monks in Shar Gades still have the photo of H.H Dalai Lama at their alrtars despite the ban. This is because they still respect H.H. Dalai Lama as their guru no matter what. This is how sincere they are.
It is indeed good news that more monks are joining Shar Gaden. It shows that Dorje Shugden lineage and practitioners are growing in spite of all the controversies. It is good that funds are coming in for the completion of a new monk living quarters. Even though they are considered "outcast" by HHDL, however, their Guru Devotion is still very strong and they still have deep respect of HHDL.
May the ban be lifted soon so that their sacrifices will not be in vain.
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I heard form some friends who have visited Shar Gaden recently that Shar Gaden is doing well now a few years into the ban. There are more monks joining the monastery and there are insufficient places to stay. A new monk living quarters are being built now and is 3/4 complete.
My friends also told me that the monks in Shar Gades still have the photo of H.H Dalai Lama at their alrtars despite the ban. This is because they still respect H.H. Dalai Lama as their guru no matter what. This is how sincere they are.
How graceful the DS practitioners are in Shar Gaden, they still regard HHDL as their guru n place his picture on the altar of Shar Gaden. It just show that DS practitioners are truely practitioners of the buddha teachings, we practice harmony, acceptance and forgiveness, we hold no grudges and hatred against those who have battered us and create so much obstacles and sufferings. In fact, that is exactly what we want, we just want to practise and follow the advice from our gurus.
The advice from Trijang Rinpoche is clear, even though it may appear the HHDL's actions are in conflict, in the future this situation will be clear. So we should remain patience and do all we can to help spread the DS practice to create the merits for the ban to be lifted!
Wonderful news to hear and such rejoicing news to hear that you were able to visit Shar Gaden. I think news of them having so many monks joining that they're running out of space is perhaps, in some way, a "good" problem to have? It shows clearly the unmistaken growth of the lineage, in spite of all their obstacles, attacks, alienation and lack of support from their own people. How wrong / bad/ evil can something be, if it is resulting in the increase of sangha, practice and physical expansion of a monastic institution? Karmically, this is not logical - something bad cannot give rise to something good and vice versa.
Wonderful (though not totally unexpected) to hear that they still have photos of the Dalai Lama and pay such deep respects to him still. Like I said in just a few previous posts, their loyalty and devotion, despite everything, is testament enough to their level of practice and attainment. Few people could maintain such devotion in the face of so much pressure. They show us a perfect example of Guru devotion - that even if they are being "put down" and ostracised by their own Guru (or so it seems) and not able to see him anymore or receive teachings, they still hold him in high regard and still remember always that he is their Guru.
They are also practising exactly as Trijang Rinpoche ( our lineage guru and of course, the Dalai Lama's own Guru) had advised and predicted - that at a future time, it may appear that there is conflict between the Dalai Lama and Dorje Shugden, but that we must not take sides and remain patient in our practice. What a perfect example for us to follow, not just in this instance but in every aspect of our practice and encounters.
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We know it is HH Dalai Lama's plan to spread Dorje Shugden practice to the world, but it is still very sad to hear what the monks have to suffer because of this issue.
Not only they are denied food, they are also denied hospital, schools, buying of clothings, etc. Good news is that Shar Gaden is going to have their own clinic very soon (heard starting operation on 5th Jan 2012), and they are also building their own school.
I was told that Gaden Shartze also ask Shar Gaden for financial support recently. How ironic?!
Yet, with all these issues, most of the Shar Gaden monastery old monks are still having HH Dalai Lama's photo on their personal altar...
May this controversial issue be over very soon, and the sufferings of the monks be put to an end.
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I rejoice in the perseverance of Shar Gaden monks in continuing steadfast in DS practice despite all the obstacles and hardship they are going through.
It’s great to hear that they are doing well and growing despite the ban and rejection from the main stream practitioners.
If DS practice is evil and can harm HH Dalai Lama, why is HH Dalai Lama still travelling round the world spreading dharma healthily and why is Shar Gaden growing?
I pray and wish that Shar Gaden will continue to grow and benefit many.
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I AM SORRY TO WRITE THE BELOW, BUT MUST INFORM EVERYONE OF THE DIRE SITUATIONS IN SOUTH INDIA.
5. Very sad, but within Sokpa khangtsen of Gaden Shartse Monastery, there are Tibetan Government Informants. HH Dalai has mentioned that he will listen to no one in Shartse except Sokpa khangtsen. If Sokpa khangtsen says that Shartse is free of Dorje Shugden pratitioners, then only will HH believe otherwise he will not. There are 11 khangtsens in Gaden Shartse. Why does HH take the word of only Sokpa Khangtsen? Because Sokpa khangtsen monks are traditionally from Amdo province of Tibet. The amdos monks of this khangtsen in the past do not have a strong tradition of Dorje Shugden practice but nor were they against it till recently. Also Tibetans are very provincially biased. HH the Dalai Lama is from Amdo, the monks of Sokpa are biased in that way it seems. Some Amdos have argued they are not Tibetans but Amdo people which are distinct from Tibetans.
Seeing monks forced to turn against eachother within their own monasteries is truly very sad and primitive legacy of the Tibetan Exile government. Also the Great Monasteries breaking apart within after 600 years history due to all of this.
I have heard that before Sokpa Khamtsen was established in Gaden Shartse, the representative at that time of this Khamtsen insisted to build the khamtsen house at the current area or they will pull out the sponsorship. The reason behind this was because they wanted to BLOCK the DHARMAPALA HOUSE which houses the Dorje Shugden statue and whereby the renown Dulzin Kuten or Choyang Kuten used to take trance of Dorje Shugden. Sokpa Khamtsen then build a L - Shape building to block the Dharmapala House from the main road.
And guess what? This Dharmapala House was build in 1985 when HH visited Gaden, HH then requested Shartse to MOVE the Dorje Shugden statue from Gaden Lachi (Protector Chapel) to another property. And when they build this house, many sponsors offered money including the monks and lay people of Dharamsala and Sera - these are the people who now claims that they do not practice this protector anymore. Please see the sponsor list (picture below) in the protector house. Their names are there until today. ::) Interesting!!!
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I have heard that before Sokpa Khamtsen was established in Gaden Shartse, the representative at that time of this Khamtsen insisted to build the khamtsen house at the current area or they will pull out the sponsorship. The reason behind this was because they wanted to BLOCK the DHARMAPALA HOUSE which houses the Dorje Shugden statue and whereby the renown Dulzin Kuten or Choyang Kuten used to take trance of Dorje Shugden. Sokpa Khamtsen then build a L - Shape building to block the Dharmapala House from the main road.
And guess what? This Dharmapala House was build in 1985 when HH visited Gaden, HH then requested Shartse to MOVE the Dorje Shugden statue from Gaden Lachi (Protector Chapel) to another property. And when they build this house, many sponsors offered money including the monks and lay people of Dharamsala and Sera - these are the people who now claims that they do not practice this protector anymore. Please see the sponsor list (picture below) in the protector house. Their names are there until today. ::) Interesting!!!
Yes, to add to the story was that Shar Gaden offered to buy up the land in front of the protector house but was refused. The land was then given to Sockpa Jamyang Khangtsen by Gaden Shartse to build their building. Sockpa Jamyang Khangtsen was the first Khangtsen to swear in when the ban was inforced.
The Dorje Shugden statue was temporarily housed in Zong Ladrang while they renovated the Protector house. The main sponsors include Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche. Imagine these highly attained lamas sponsoring this protector house, how could this practice be wrong?
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3. HH Dalai Lama ordering all Gelug Institutions (Gaden, Sera, Drepung) to place a Guru Rinpoche statue in their main prayer halls. It is a requirement now.
May I know what is the significants of placing Guru Rinpoche statue in main prayer hall?
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3. HH Dalai Lama ordering all Gelug Institutions (Gaden, Sera, Drepung) to place a Guru Rinpoche statue in their main prayer halls. It is a requirement now.
May I know what is the significants of placing Guru Rinpoche statue in main prayer hall?
So they have to eventually adopt Nyingma practices in all Gelug monastries. ::)
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3. HH Dalai Lama ordering all Gelug Institutions (Gaden, Sera, Drepung) to place a Guru Rinpoche statue in their main prayer halls. It is a requirement now.
May I know what is the significants of placing Guru Rinpoche statue in main prayer hall?
Dear Kris,
Thank you for pointing this out as I was wondering exactly the same thing!! Why did the DL order all the main prayer halls to place a statue of Guru Rinpoche there? Followers of the Nyingma school regard Guru Rinpoche as the second Buddha.. But DL belongs to Gelug right, wouldn't it make more sense to put Lama Tsongkhapa statues? Hmm, anyways, just a thought.
Reading the other posts, it is so nice to know and see that despite being ostracized against, despite the discrimination, the suffering, the pain, the dorje shugden practitioners still hold no grudge towards the Dalai Lama. This shows how much faith they have in a highly respected lama. They don't complain, they don't make a scene, they have resilience, determination and devotion. They cannot choose between the DL or DS, but they will never give up their protector. This is the feeling I get from reading the other posts about the Shar Gaden monks. Whatever the Dalai lama is doing, they respect, but they hold so strongly to their faith, their practise and what their guru has given them. How beautiful.
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3. HH Dalai Lama ordering all Gelug Institutions (Gaden, Sera, Drepung) to place a Guru Rinpoche statue in their main prayer halls. It is a requirement now.
May I know what is the significants of placing Guru Rinpoche statue in main prayer hall?
Maybe HHDL plans to absorb Nyigmapa into Gelugpa. But it is already a well known fact that Tsongkhapa is actually Guru Rinpoche himself. So why the statue? Or perhaps HHDL wants to appease Nyigmapas who were jealous of Gelugpa and make them less antagonistic towards Gelugpa? I sure dont hope that next, every Gelug master will be required to practice on of the terma teachings.
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3. HH Dalai Lama ordering all Gelug Institutions (Gaden, Sera, Drepung) to place a Guru Rinpoche statue in their main prayer halls. It is a requirement now.
May I know what is the significants of placing Guru Rinpoche statue in main prayer hall?
Maybe HHDL plans to absorb Nyigmapa into Gelugpa. But it is already a well known fact that Tsongkhapa is actually Guru Rinpoche himself. So why the statue? Or perhaps HHDL wants to appease Nyigmapas who were jealous of Gelugpa and make them less antagonistic towards Gelugpa? I sure dont hope that next, every Gelug master will be required to practice on of the terma teachings.
Dont know how that would happen Gelugs dont consider Nyingma Termas to be authentic, Note why Tsongkhapa didnt incorperate Dzogchen into his formation as well.
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I have heard that before Sokpa Khamtsen was established in Gaden Shartse, the representative at that time of this Khamtsen insisted to build the khamtsen house at the current area or they will pull out the sponsorship. The reason behind this was because they wanted to BLOCK the DHARMAPALA HOUSE which houses the Dorje Shugden statue and whereby the renown Dulzin Kuten or Choyang Kuten used to take trance of Dorje Shugden. Sokpa Khamtsen then build a L - Shape building to block the Dharmapala House from the main road.
And guess what? This Dharmapala House was build in 1985 when HH visited Gaden, HH then requested Shartse to MOVE the Dorje Shugden statue from Gaden Lachi (Protector Chapel) to another property. And when they build this house, many sponsors offered money including the monks and lay people of Dharamsala and Sera - these are the people who now claims that they do not practice this protector anymore. Please see the sponsor list (picture below) in the protector house. Their names are there until today. ::) Interesting!!!
Yes, to add to the story was that Shar Gaden offered to buy up the land in front of the protector house but was refused. The land was then given to Sockpa Jamyang Khangtsen by Gaden Shartse to build their building. Sockpa Jamyang Khangtsen was the first Khangtsen to swear in when the ban was inforced.
The Dorje Shugden statue was temporarily housed in Zong Ladrang while they renovated the Protector house. The main sponsors include Trijang Rinpoche and Zong Rinpoche. Imagine these highly attained lamas sponsoring this protector house, how could this practice be wrong?
When I learnt that the holy DS statue was removed from the Gaden Lachi Protector chapel in 1985, I was pissed. I was angry by this gross disrespect! How dare the HHDL? Then after listening to further explanations by the monks, I contemplated and came to the realization that it was skillful of HHDL to remove DS to another separate house.
The Ban became full blown in 1995-1996, the holy statue was invited out in 1985, this was 10 years apart. By moving the statue HHDL had actually preserved the statue and the practice! Today, although the L-shape construction blocks the direct view, it is still a place safekeeping the holy beautiful statue. Much blessings from DS to the area.
I also learnt that the Setrab statue in the Gaden Lachi Protector chapel has mantras of DS and prayers inserted. Does this mean the monks are still praying to DS?????
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I also learnt that the Setrab statue in the Gaden Lachi Protector chapel has mantras of DS and prayers inserted. Does this mean the monks are still praying to DS?????
Haha... Yes, the monks are then definitely still praying to DS if mantras and prayers are inside the Setrab statue. I heard that they can remove the mantras and would have to leave it there.
I won't be surprised if the other statues in the main prayer hall has DS mantras and prayers inserted in them also because the statues were there before the ban. So in fact all monks are still praying to DS. ::) ::)
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Hahaha if DS prayers and mantras are still inside Setrab statue or in any other statues in the monasteries, surely the monks are praying to Dorje Shugden.
HHDL is very skilful. He ordered the Dorje Shugden statue to be removed from Gaden Lachi to another chapel. The statue was not destroyed. So it looks like whether Dorje Shugden is moved to a separate chapel or monks praying to Setrab statues, they are all still praying to Dorje Shugden
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There are still many statues within the monastery that still has DS's mantras inserted into. Perhaps, even the main statue of Tsongkhapa in Ganden has Dorje Shugden's mantras inserted inside as they are actually the one and the same in reality. Does this mean that everyone is still praying to Dorje Shugden in reality? So why did the Dalai Lama not inspect those statues that were consecrated by none other than Trijang Rinpoche, or high Lamas that were also for sure, Dorje Shugden practitioners? If they were, it is without a doubt that those statues were inserted with Dorje Shugden mantras. In one way or another, they were praying to Dorje Shugden all along even if the main statue was not present. And they still are till this very day. If the Dalai Lama really wanted to remove everything, he would have to need to replace the statues as well as they also contain Dorje Shugden images inside them as well. But they remained untouched.
on what Zach had said about the Nyingma termas, not every single terma is not authentic. Termas whose teachings can be traced back to a source is considered authentic. If not, why would there be a Dorje Shugden Terma that is in existence? I believe that Lama Tsongkhapa also had Nyingma Gurus as he sought teachings from all traditions of his time, so it does not mean that it is not possible to work out the differences between Nyingma and Gelug and have them assimilated together. After all, Guru Rinpoche is also Tsongkhapa and they are of the same mindstream and we should not say that one tradition is better than the other.