dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: jessicajameson on June 14, 2011, 09:58:33 PM
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Hello!
I heard some of my Dharma brother and sisters talk about heart crystals.
Apparently there are crystals which have Dorje Shugden's mantra inscribed on them and they are blessed by holy monks and attained lamas. Is this true? And what is the significance of them? Why use crystal and can they protect you? And how can I get one?
I thought that this would be something nice to discuss about... after that topic about silly anti-shugden chakras! :P
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The crystals are usually given out during the sogte...or as a blessing.
I would like to hear more about them as well.
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I have a Dorje Shugden heart crystal. It was given to me by friend who got it from Gangchen Rinpoche. However, I don't really know its significance either. I was told that it is offered to the person receiving sogtae as a mark that Dorje Shugden is sworn to protect the recipient until he/she achieves Bodhichitta. For me, it was just a very neat blessing. I love it because it is kinda funky and new-age-y to be wearing a crystal around my neck.
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It is so cool to see all of the monks here at Shar Gaden wearing these crystals around their necks.
I have also seen similar crystals for Setrap.
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Hey Big Uncle,
I was passed one of these also by a friend who went to india. Not sure if its the same thing we're talking about here, because he just said its for protection.
Its quartz crystal with some tibetan text written around the outside. You think you can put a pic up of the one your talking about?
:)
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It is so cool to see all of the monks here at Shar Gaden wearing these crystals around their necks.
I have also seen similar crystals for Setrap.
I was told that one who receives the Heart Crystal may not show it to others.. as it is to be kept/worn in secret/not revealed just like this practice is a secret practice. Would love to learn more about this topic.
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It is so cool to see all of the monks here at Shar Gaden wearing these crystals around their necks.
I have also seen similar crystals for Setrap.
I was told that one who receives the Heart Crystal may not show it to others.. as it is to be kept/worn in secret/not revealed just like this practice is a secret practice. Would love to learn more about this topic.
Well, if you live with 700 other people who also have the same crystal, it is hardly a secret. ;D
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I have not received the sogtae so I would not know for sure.... but this is what I understand from some teachings I received (pardon me - the memory might be a bit rusty.... so do keep checking, this is not gospel!).
Is this the same as a "heart jewel"? If so, I believe it is symbolic of a very sacred bond (a heart connection?) you create by accepting Dorje Shugden's practice and being committed to it for the rest of your life; simultaneously, of course, you receive the supreme protection of Dorje Shugden until you are enlightened.
I wonder - are we permitted to wear this without having received initiation? And are there any negative effects if we do?
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A heart crystal? Sounds interesting. Never seen one. I pray for the day when Dorje Shugden is out in the day light and praised by many. So we can get access to so many holy items of Shugden! ;D
But one thing I don't understand is, why do we need items like crystal or chakra to wear so to protect us? Wouldn't we do prayers are blessed enough? Or these holy items have extra blessings? And if it's for protection, wouldn't by reciting mantra is sufficient enough? Just some random questions ;)
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Heart crystals are supposed to be for the Dorje Shugden life empowerment. As mentioned earlier, it is meant to protect the students till enlightenment. It is as same as the red string given by our Guru during highest yoga tantra empowerment. There may be other significances yet to be explained.
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I have not received the sogtae so I would not know for sure.... but this is what I understand from some teachings I received (pardon me - the memory might be a bit rusty.... so do keep checking, this is not gospel!).
Is this the same as a "heart jewel"? If so, I believe it is symbolic of a very sacred bond (a heart connection?) you create by accepting Dorje Shugden's practice and being committed to it for the rest of your life; simultaneously, of course, you receive the supreme protection of Dorje Shugden until you are enlightened.
I wonder - are we permitted to wear this without having received initiation? And are there any negative effects if we do?
Surely if it is meant as a blessing, whether or not you have the initiation is irrelevant.
All this talk about heart crystals... what do it actually look like? Crystal heart?
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This all very interesting.... yes it would be great if someone can put it up here so we can all see. I have seen a friend having a
I also agree that any image of a Buddha is a blessing and Doje Shugden is not an ordinary deity. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and hence you can wear whatever pendants of DS even if you are not initiated. It still blesses and protect us. Dorje Shugden after is Manjushri = Yamantaka as well... so let take a look at this crystal.
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It is so cool to see all of the monks here at Shar Gaden wearing these crystals around their necks.
I have also seen similar crystals for Setrap.
Does that mean that protectors in general would have similar crystals?
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It is so cool to see all of the monks here at Shar Gaden wearing these crystals around their necks.
I have also seen similar crystals for Setrap.
Does that mean that protectors in general would have similar crystals?
It seems that only Dorje shugden protector practioners will have this type of crystals.
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It is always very nice to have crystals like this to protect us… I will be glad to have one too…. Hehe!!!
But what I am wondering is if we are not doing the practice well, we are not doing our sadhana regularly or we being selfish as ever, is this crystal still protect us no matter whatever reason it is?
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How exciting to read about this Dorje Shugden heart crystal! And that all the monks in Shar Gaden have one? I've looked at pictures of the monks but haven't seen any conspicuous crystal. How big is it? Is it a clear crystal or natural crystal? If anyone has one they can take a photo of, that would be lovely.
Perhaps as DSfriend says, it could be a secret thing - where the monks may reveal it to the other monks of Shar Gaden but not to outsiders/non-initiates? I hope not though, so that i can get to see it! I googled for it but didn't find anything, which i thought was unusual.
Hope someone can share a picture of their heart jewel/heart crystal with the forum.
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Yeah, does anyone have a picture? :) I am still thinking about it... :)
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I have heard some of my friends talk about this very powerful crystal. I was told that this crystal normally was given from the Guru to the student after one have receive DS's empowerment. It symbolize that the student will be protected from all inner and outer obstacles, and never be apart from the protector and Dharma until one have release from samsara.
I've found the most similar reference, which is a clear quartz with some mantra encraved on the surface. According to the blog's owner, this is a Setrap heart crystal and i assumed the mantra encraved on the surface should be Setrap's mantra.
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fseHZVwmags/Sw_3IPBl9nI/AAAAAAAAHng/UZmfGpOxPUw/s1600/gaden%20shartse%20monastery5.jpg)
it roughly stand 1" and it's a very good size as a pendant.
i hope this is what everyone been talking about.
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It is amazing to hear that there is a heart crystal with Dorje Shugden's mantra inscribed. How blessed to wear this!
I have been to the monastery a few years ago with a Tibetan friend. I do not recall seeing the monks wearing any crystal, then again, I am sure it is not to be flaunt around like some normal piece of jewelry. During this trip I received a Dorje Shugden ruel. In the instructions it stated clearly to wear it near the body at all times and to be covered/protected so that it remains clean. It is also said to be worn inside. Perhaps it is sacred to be kept hidden and not because it is some secret.
I do wish to find some time in the near future to visit the monastery again. I still can feel the peace in me when I recall, even now, listening to the monks perform rituals and pujas. True blessing to the soul. It was also such a delight to see the young monks learning and reciting pujas. They have such admirable courage and tenacity to uphold the practice of Dorje Shugden! Bless them and may DS practice be free very soon!
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I have heard some of my friends talk about this very powerful crystal. I was told that this crystal normally was given from the Guru to the student after one have receive DS's empowerment. It symbolize that the student will be protected from all inner and outer obstacles, and never be apart from the protector and Dharma until one have release from samsara.
I've found the most similar reference, which is a clear quartz with some mantra encraved on the surface. According to the blog's owner, this is a Setrap heart crystal and i assumed the mantra encraved on the surface should be Setrap's mantra.
i hope this is what everyone been talking about.
WOW!! Thanks for the photo whitelion! It looks amazing!! The guy/girl who own the photo/blog had some real guts to post the photo up though, considering how sacred/secret it's meant to be haha.
Thanks again, it's beautiful :)
Hope you don't mind, but I'll be adding that to my Facebook!
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I have heard some of my friends talk about this very powerful crystal. I was told that this crystal normally was given from the Guru to the student after one have receive DS's empowerment. It symbolize that the student will be protected from all inner and outer obstacles, and never be apart from the protector and Dharma until one have release from samsara.
I've found the most similar reference, which is a clear quartz with some mantra encraved on the surface. According to the blog's owner, this is a Setrap heart crystal and i assumed the mantra encraved on the surface should be Setrap's mantra.
([url]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_fseHZVwmags/Sw_3IPBl9nI/AAAAAAAAHng/UZmfGpOxPUw/s1600/gaden%20shartse%20monastery5.jpg[/url])
it roughly stand 1" and it's a very good size as a pendant.
i hope this is what everyone been talking about.
Yes, that is what I am talking about and the one I have is exactly like this. The mantra in red inscribed around the crystal is Dorje Shugden's mantra "Om Benza Wiki Bitana Soha". I think the make of the crystal is not important when it is compared to what it represents. Anyhow, I think mine is just glass or man-made crystal.
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It is always very nice to have crystals like this to protect us… I will be glad to have one too…. Hehe!!!
But what I am wondering is if we are not doing the practice well, we are not doing our sadhana regularly or we being selfish as ever, is this crystal still protect us no matter whatever reason it is?
Good question. My answer to that is that "no, never".
As seems to me, the only "karmically valid" function of these kind of amulets, crystals, trinkets, and so forth, sold in conjunction with most Eastern traditions, seem to be the equivalent of "the knot in the finger", that is, they are meant to act as "reminders of something", in this case the Dharma practice. Having stuff like this hanging around our bodies, maybe we do remember to maintain our practice, in other words, they function to trigger mindfullness of the Dharma. Beyond that, there is no function (apart from the business purposes of the manufacturer, reseller, etc.) This is not to say that many people would not think that they have other functions, but from the karmic perspective, these "other functions" are non-buddhist magical fantasies.
"If you tend to forget, do buy, a crystal reminder.
If you are mindfull, why not sip, a cup of sake."
- Dumbmaster Hakuin
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Whitelion, thanks for sharing that picture.. it looks nothing like what i had imagined, which just goes to show!
I spoke about this crystal to a friend and he told me that it's something given to a student so you can't buy it. If so, there's no 'business' purpose.. and even if they were for sale, if it was made by a monastery and it was for the purpose of fund raising, I would be more than happy to support and get one!! After all, monasteries have to support themselves somehow. I guess if it's a little dinky shop making them purely for commercial reasons i can see why some people would object, although i guess if it meant something to the person who bought it, that would be a good thing?
Don't holy items have inherent power because they are blessed by the monks? Or the power of the mantra inscribed on them?
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It is always very nice to have crystals like this to protect us… I will be glad to have one too…. Hehe!!!
But what I am wondering is if we are not doing the practice well, we are not doing our sadhana regularly or we being selfish as ever, is this crystal still protect us no matter whatever reason it is?
Good question. My answer to that is that "no, never".
As seems to me, the only "karmically valid" function of these kind of amulets, crystals, trinkets, and so forth, sold in conjunction with most Eastern traditions, seem to be the equivalent of "the knot in the finger", that is, they are meant to act as "reminders of something", in this case the Dharma practice. Having stuff like this hanging around our bodies, maybe we do remember to maintain our practice, in other words, they function to trigger mindfullness of the Dharma. Beyond that, there is no function (apart from the business purposes of the manufacturer, reseller, etc.) This is not to say that many people would not think that they have other functions, but from the karmic perspective, these "other functions" are non-buddhist magical fantasies.
"If you tend to forget, do buy, a crystal reminder.
If you are mindfull, why not sip, a cup of sake."
- Dumbmaster Hakuin
Well, I still believe that the crystal hold a certain power if one had receive it during a Sogtae. The bond forged during the Sogtae ritual is a powerful one and I believe that although the crystal symbolically represent this spiritual bond, the crystal is not a mere trinket, it embodies this powerful bond just like how consecrated monk robes embodies the protective nature of monk's vows. So, if anybody out there has it, please treasure it as a sacred object. It will protect and remind us of our spiritual bond with Dorje Shugden/ the Dharma.
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Roberto, I have seen my colleague wearing one. Let me take a photo when I see her and post it up. Even looking at it is a blessing.
Hey Big Uncle,
I was passed one of these also by a friend who went to india. Not sure if its the same thing we're talking about here, because he just said its for protection.
Its quartz crystal with some tibetan text written around the outside. You think you can put a pic up of the one your talking about?
:)
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by the way, is there only one type of heart crystal (as in the picture above) or are there other designs? Just curious, that's all.
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It is always very nice to have crystals like this to protect us… I will be glad to have one too…. Hehe!!!
But what I am wondering is if we are not doing the practice well, we are not doing our sadhana regularly or we being selfish as ever, is this crystal still protect us no matter whatever reason it is?
Nah. If you have the karma to be harmed, even if your sitting in your lama's lap, your karma is still going to bite you on the arse! Which is why the Dalai Lama can't be harmed by Dorje Shugden (since hes Chenrezig and has no karma), so I've never really bought into the whole "Dorje Shugden will shorten my life, stop practising him" tack.
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It is always very nice to have crystals like this to protect us… I will be glad to have one too…. Hehe!!!
But what I am wondering is if we are not doing the practice well, we are not doing our sadhana regularly or we being selfish as ever, is this crystal still protect us no matter whatever reason it is?
Nah. If you have the karma to be harmed, even if your sitting in your lama's lap, your karma is still going to bite you on the arse! Which is why the Dalai Lama can't be harmed by Dorje Shugden (since hes Chenrezig and has no karma), so I've never really bought into the whole "Dorje Shugden will shorten my life, stop practising him" tack.
Well said, DD!
Our Karma is created solely by our many lifetimes of deeds or misdeeds. And no Buddha or Enlightened Being can get rid of our bad Karma for us.
If we didn't create the karma for it, we will not experience it.
If we did, then we should purify as much as we possibly can.
Thanks to White Lion for that wonderful picture of the Dorje Shugden Heart Crystal.
It's lovely to see and know that the heart crystal is likened to carrying the heart essence of Dorje Shugden with us all the time.
Be it as a blessing, protection or a daily constant reminder for us to hold our vows well and keep up our practice, or all of the above - it does help us build a closer bond with our Protector on a very personal level.
May I also create the merits and karma to have one in time soon.
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Whitelion, thanks for sharing that picture.. it looks nothing like what i had imagined, which just goes to show!
I spoke about this crystal to a friend and he told me that it's something given to a student so you can't buy it. If so, there's no 'business' purpose.. and even if they were for sale, if it was made by a monastery and it was for the purpose of fund raising, I would be more than happy to support and get one!! After all, monasteries have to support themselves somehow. I guess if it's a little dinky shop making them purely for commercial reasons i can see why some people would object, although i guess if it meant something to the person who bought it, that would be a good thing?
Don't holy items have inherent power because they are blessed by the monks? Or the power of the mantra inscribed on them?
Dear WB,
I do believe holy items such as Buddha images, mantra, relic, heart crystal or etc have it inherent power but for my understanding, it's just can give us some imprint when we see, touch, speak think about all these holy items. We will not able to change our life just because we owned any holy items.
Paying respect or having any holy items such as buddha pendants always near to us is very good, because it might open up dharma seed in us or others, but if we got so attached with these holy items and forgo Buddha's teaching, we will end up in a not so good place too. We should pay highest respect to all holy items but not attached to them, because this is totally opposite from the Buddha's teaching.
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Don't holy items have inherent power because they are blessed by the monks? Or the power of the mantra inscribed on them?
If the monk is holding pure vows it would be blessed by the vows of the monk who touched it... If not. then by the power of the enlightened mantra itself would be powerful also. In this sense it comes from the object as something worthy of veneration.
I mean if you have a Buddha statue, just because it was made by someone "dirty" wouldn't it still bless you because it is still a Buddha statue representing the actual Buddha and his teachings?
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Can someone post a photo of the crystal?
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Kris,
Look at page 2 of this thread, there is a picture of the crystal posted by whitelion.
:)
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Just stumbled on this discussion by chance... I was given the crystals when I received the life entrustment from my lamas. I was told that Dorje Shugden resides in that crystal; however, it was also made clear that Dorje Shugden will be present anywhere where the Buddhadharma is present, especially the teachings of Jamgon Tsongkhapa (all my lamas have said that wherever there is a text of the Lamrim Chenmo, Dorje Shugden will be present with it).
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Dear ChoDorje
I love what you said - that Dorje Shugden is present everywhere the Buddhadharma is present. That shows that Dorje Shugden IS a Buddha. He is NOT sectarian. Contrary to the naysayers, Dorje Shugden is actually a Buddha for everyone.
I also loved your remark that Dorje Shugden is in all Lamrim texts! It makes perfect sense as he is protecting Tsongkhapa's teachings. He is also Manjushri, as is Tsongkhapa.
Thank you for sharing and do share more!
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Thanks Cho Dorje for sharing, it so happen I have a copy of Lamrim Chenmo in my prayer space. So Dorje Shugden has ben with me a long time ago always watchful over me.
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Just stumbled on this discussion by chance... I was given the crystals when I received the life entrustment from my lamas. I was told that Dorje Shugden resides in that crystal; however, it was also made clear that Dorje Shugden will be present anywhere where the Buddhadharma is present, especially the teachings of Jamgon Tsongkhapa (all my lamas have said that wherever there is a text of the Lamrim Chenmo, Dorje Shugden will be present with it).
ChoDorje, my lama has said the same about Dorje Shugden being present wherever the BuddhaDharma is. I have heard a little of the significance associated with the crystals being received during sogtae, some to do with the bond it signifies between protector and practitioner. I am a great believer that such items, along with chakras and pendants have power, protection and great blessings, particularly when it is blessed by a holy lama such as my teacher, prior to receiving it.
Likewise, as long as we hold the BuddhaDharma in our hearts, and do what pleases Dorje Shugden most, hold our vows, practice guru devotion, study the lamrim, he will always be with us and watch over us. We don't need a pendant or chakra to receive his protection.
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I carry a copy of the Lamrim in my bag whenever i go to work so that i dont forget to bring it during my Lamrim class. I am really glad to know that he has been watching over me all along! He truly is a real Dharmapala who protects without discrimination. Even Dharmapalas like Mahakala require an initiation to petition but not Dorje Shugden. This increases my faith in him even more!
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Just stumbled on this discussion by chance... I was given the crystals when I received the life entrustment from my lamas. I was told that Dorje Shugden resides in that crystal; however, it was also made clear that Dorje Shugden will be present anywhere where the Buddhadharma is present, especially the teachings of Jamgon Tsongkhapa (all my lamas have said that wherever there is a text of the Lamrim Chenmo, Dorje Shugden will be present with it).
ChoDorje, my lama has said the same about Dorje Shugden being present wherever the BuddhaDharma is. I have heard a little of the significance associated with the crystals being received during sogtae, some to do with the bond it signifies between protector and practitioner. I am a great believer that such items, along with chakras and pendants have power, protection and great blessings, particularly when it is blessed by a holy lama such as my teacher, prior to receiving it.
Likewise, as long as we hold the BuddhaDharma in our hearts, and do what pleases Dorje Shugden most, hold our vows, practice guru devotion, study the lamrim, he will always be with us and watch over us. We don't need a pendant or chakra to receive his protection.
I do agree with you there - that we do not need pendants or any items to receive Dorje Shugden's protection. If we act contrary to Dharma, then our karma will be the result of our actions. Even Dorje Shugden cannot protect us, however powerful he is. No Buddha can stop our karma from fruitioning. However, i think that if we sincerely propitiate Dorje Shugden and act as you have said - holding our vows, and having a strong samaya with our teacher should we have one and learn and practice Dharma well, then Dorje Shugden would do all he can to remove our obstacles and protect us.
Saying that though, I would still dearly love to have a pendant or crystal of Dorje Shugden, simply as a tangible reminder of his presence with me at all times.
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I pray that one day I will have the merits to receive Dorje Shugden's initiation, I will start by doing His prayers daily to create the cause for that to happen. I want to be able to hold this practise until the day I die and I pray for that to come true. _/\_
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Thank you for sharing. Agreed with Gabby Potter that I pray that one day i will have the merits to receive the Dorje Shugden Initiation.
I saw that the online shop has the Dorje Shugden heart crystal that we can invite and wear it as a pendant, or keep it close to our body that will keep us safe from negative forces and evil spirits. Here's the link: http://shop.dorjeshugden.com/blessed-items/dorje-shugden-heart-crystal.html (http://shop.dorjeshugden.com/blessed-items/dorje-shugden-heart-crystal.html)
It is so sacred and beautiful!
Traditionally, the heart crystal is offered to the person receiving the Dorje Shugden empowerment or sogtae as a symbol that Dorje Shugden is sworn to protect the recipient until he or she achieves Bodhichitta.
(http://shop.dorjeshugden.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/64x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/img_1145.jpg)
(http://shop.dorjeshugden.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/64x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/img_1142.jpg)
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Just stumbled on this discussion by chance... I was given the crystals when I received the life entrustment from my lamas. I was told that Dorje Shugden resides in that crystal; however, it was also made clear that Dorje Shugden will be present anywhere where the Buddhadharma is present, especially the teachings of Jamgon Tsongkhapa (all my lamas have said that wherever there is a text of the Lamrim Chenmo, Dorje Shugden will be present with it).
ChoDorje, thank you for your information on the Dorje Shugden heart crystal. Although I have been introduced to Dorje Shugden and have been relying on Him since, this is my first encounter with a clear explanation on the crystal. Just like what my kind teacher have always been reminding us to study and practice the lam rim and Lojong.
It is very comforting to know that Dorje Shugden will be present wherever the Buddhadharma is present. I am praying that I have the merits to receive a life entrustment from my teacher and to be the owner of the holy heart crystal.