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About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: DharmaDefender on December 04, 2012, 08:38:44 PM

Title: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: DharmaDefender on December 04, 2012, 08:38:44 PM
New article alert on DS.com! Just so you lot have some context...British Prime Minister David Cameron recently barred two of his ministers from meeting with His Holiness the Dalai Lama, just one month after his own meeting with Tibet's spiritual leader. There have been allegations that good ol' Dave doesnt want to tick off the Chinese who are supposed to be giving £27bil to the IMF to help them bail out our economies...


From http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/)

So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/TibetUK1.jpg)

While the fight for Tibet’s freedom continues to burn passionately throughout Tibetan communities across the world, it is becoming more and more evident that their actions and words may be doing more damage than good for themselves.

Recently, there has been much attention given to the revelation that the British Prime Minister had banned his ministers from meeting the Dalai Lama during his visit to Britain in June. This article was highlighted on a Tibetan news website, Phayul.com, which can be read here.

After the initial fuss dies down though, a series of questions come to mind: If British ministers met with the Dalai Lama, what real benefit does Britain get in return? What benefit do the Tibetans get? How does meeting the Dalai Lama help the British economy? How does it help the millions of unemployed people around the country who are trying to make ends meet and feed their families? How does it sustain, in any way, Britain’s current flailing financial crisis?

The hard truth of the matter is that there is no benefit – for either the British or the Tibetans.

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/ChinaUK1.jpg)

Putting aside the warm fuzzy feelings of meeting the Dalai Lama, the British are contending with very real problems for their population of almost 63 million today. Unemployment rates in the UK are at its highest since 1995, standing at 8.4% of the population. A stagnant economy is having dire knock-on effects on employment throughout the nation.

However, there’s a glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel: China. This financial giant were in talks to offer £27 billion to a fund which would be used by the International Monetary Fund to bail out failing Eurozone economies. It is certainly compassionate and generous of China to help poorer economies like that of the British and many countries across the Euro-zone. China has no obligation to do this.

So it wouldn’t seem unreasonable that the British might be reluctant to do anything that might upset China – like meet the Dalai Lama, a figure the Chinese have not liked for decades. Whatever their reasons for disliking him and whether the reasons are valid or not is besides the point. China is throwing a lifeline to a desperately ailing economy and it just wouldn’t be wise, would it, to antagonize a giant? There’s a bigger picture for the British and Europeans to be concerned about – the economy, the welfare of their people, their global standing. Not meeting the Dalai Lama – no matter how peace-loving and wonderful he is – is a small trade-off for what could potentially save a disastrous situation for their entire nation.

It seems that the Tibetans however, have a bone to pick. They aren’t happy about the British not meeting the Dalai Lama. It’s up on their website for the world to see – look how bad the British are for not accommodating our spiritual leader. Look how they pander to the Chinese.

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/DalaiLamaCameronClegg.jpg)
HH the Dalai Lama with the British Prime Minister David Cameron (center) and Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg (right) at St. Paul’s Cathedral in London, UK, on May 14, 2012.

Again, we ask: If British ministers met with the Dalai Lama, what real benefit does Britain get in return from the Tibetan people? But consider – if the British kept up good relations with China, what great financial and political benefit could they receive? It is clear who the British would rather maintain a friendship with.

Actually, as things stand, the British have already been extremely kind to the Tibetans. For over 50 years, since the Tibetans first fled their country, countries like the United Kingdom have:


Rather than protest against their refusal to meet with the Dalai Lama, the Tibetans should learn gratitude for what they have already received, in abundance, from these countries. Not look for the first opportunity to play a victim of international relations with China. Publishing articles like this on their websites only appears ungrateful and petulant.

The United Kingdom and many other democratic countries of the West have done much to help the global Tibetan communities. But with the rising economic and political might of China, one must understand that they each have to balance a tightrope with the Chinese. This is not something bad, but something necessary – if only for the pure survival of their own people and nation.

Yes, the world feels sadness for the Tibetan situation and great empathy for their wish to return to their homeland. But the world also needs to look after their own people. For all they are fighting for their own freedom, it is time the Tibetans understand the need for other governments to take care of their own people too and fulfill their most basic needs. For example, 24,000 people died from the cold of winter in 2011 – 2012 in England and Wales simply because they were too poor to pay for heating. Wouldn’t the British government need to find solutions to these most fundamental issues? This is much more important than the mere pomp and circumstance of a meeting with the Dalai Lama. The Tibetans are quick to decry their lack of freedom and support. But they fail to understand that every other country in the world wants the same things that they do and offer little empathy or support for anyone else. Seldom do they think beyond their own small ‘Free Tibet’ battle.

(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Kundeling.jpg)
His Eminence Kundeling Rinpoche, who sued the Dalai Lama for religious freedoms

This minuteness of the Tibetans’ way of thinking is precisely what has held them back from getting back their own country. Why would China or the world take the Tibetans seriously when they nitpick on such small issues? This narrow thinking is also what has led them to repress their own people. The ban on the Buddhist Deity Dorje Shugden – and the ensuing discrimination, ostracism and attacks on people who chose to continue the practice – is a perfect example of how the Tibetan authorities focus so much of their time, energy and resources on such small, insignificant things.

The Dorje Shugden issue became so prevalent among Tibetan exiled communities that it eventually even escalated to a scale that disturbed their host country, India. For example, the Dalai Lama was taken to court within India for restricting religious freedom. Also, physical attacks against Dorje Shugden devotees risked creating instability and grave unrest across the Tibetan settlements in India.

Eventually, why would anyone take the Tibetans seriously when it is evident they cannot even look after themselves or their own people? When it is clear they have such little empathy, support or understanding for the welfare of other nations, such as the current financial crisis being faced by the British? Their recent disgruntlement about the British ministers not being allowed to meet the Dalai Lama is yet another example of a narrow fixation to achieve freedom for Tibet, only in the way they want it.

So as the Tibetans get in a flap about the British meeting or not meeting the Dalai Lama, they need to step back for a moment and think: what good really comes out of meeting the Dalai Lama? Either for the British or for the Tibetans? They wish for the British show of solidarity for their cause of freedom, but show little understanding back to the very people they’re trying to canvas for support. Try a little empathy, dear Tibetans, or even gratitude for what the world has already done to support you so far. That’s more likely to put you back on the map of discussion.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 05, 2012, 03:56:19 AM
It's not really a so what issue here: it is more of how Britain and the rest of the world view the Dalai Lama as. First, the US made the Dalai Lama exit via the back lane where all the rubbish is thrown. Next, HHDL was rudely barred from entering Taiwan and now, British ministers are prevented from having a luncheon with him. It is as if these countries see the Dalai Lama as someone to be ashamed of, that they do not mind showing such disrespect to the Dalai Lama in this way. Perhaps, this is a sign of the times where China is getting more and more powerful and has even eclipsed the Dalai Lama's, due to economical reasons....and lets see what CTA/HHDL can do next about the whole independence thing.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: dsiluvu on December 07, 2012, 08:51:34 AM
I think Britain has the right to reject seeing HHDL if it may mean risking their relationship and help they are gonna get from China. The UK definitely need help and sorry to say I am sure the Bristish people are more concern about their own problems because if they cannot solve their own problems, how are they able to help anyone?

Well to save their own nation's econmy vs seeing HHDL... I am sure saving their own nations econmy weighs much higher. Actually when you think about it... what good does it ever brought Tibetans that HHDL visited and is seen with all the worlds' leader? If we check the results, up to date it had no results, no change. Tibet is still under China and in fact without disrespecting HHDL, it HHDL that had to change is goal from Tibetan independence to Tibetan autonomy... and there was no effect still to date. So really this time round, especially now that China is the world's no 1 super power, even more so, they are not gonna barge. They are probably rejoicing that more Tibetans burn themselves as to them they are nothing but "trouble", sad to say.

Well to be honest the only great results we have seen so far that has anything to do with Tibet is actually the ban of Dorje Shugden... lol funny as it may seem.... China is at least embracing DHARMA. Actually this is far more important and valuable than a piece of land, no?

Sometimes it makes me wonder if HHDL is going around pleading for Tibetan autonomy is basically a samsaric duty he is having no choice but to do because his people demands it of him and lays all their attachments/responsibilities and pain on HHDL. Quite unfair I must say. Quite a huge worldly responsibility. What have they done on their part to show the world that Tibetans are smart, compassionate, kind and can contribute positively back to the world? The higher Lamas are doing something... but what about the rest??? What about CTA? Maybe that is why HHDL announced there may not be a 15th Dalai Lama.     
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 07, 2012, 08:56:26 AM
between meeting the Dalai Lama and saving their nation full of people, saving the nation comes first. As we all know, europe is now having a huge economic crisis and unless something is done, they will fall into debt. Britain is skating on thin ice at the moment when it comes to this and they do need China's assistance. dsiluvu has a point there about this. But the bigger and stronger picture from this is that Britain does not really respect the Dalai Lama, they only see him as an exotic guest.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: dsiluvu on December 07, 2012, 11:13:35 AM
I think this a little bit unfair don't you think???

Now they put pressure on David Cameron and have such video campaigns... this is really quite a wrong move... so smart now they are starting to burn bridges not just with China but other parts of the world hu?

Free Tibet: David Cameron, champion of freedom (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k06pWKkFVQw#)
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: beggar on December 07, 2012, 05:58:18 PM
Indeed: "so what?"

This is telling of the narrowness of the CTA - that so much attention would be put on enforcing a silly, illogical religious ban when, as leaders of an exiled people, they could do with focusing on much larger issues, international relations and their global standing. While larger nations are focusing on the dire financial situation of the world,  the CTA and Tibetans focus on the petty issues of controlling individuals' religious choices.

I think the point about gratitude is an important one - that the Tibetans have in fact lived on the kindness of so many nations - both in India/ Nepal and in many countries in the West. And yet they will still pick on the one time that support is not extended to them. It's certainly not like the British owe them anything.

It is not so much the act but the prevailing attitudes behind these actions that show the Tibetans to be really rather incapable of doing very much to lead their people and keep them together. If they cannot maintain unity within such a small population of only 100,000, how can they begin to think of achieving a larger freedom and be reunited with their home country? Would a huge super power like China really take seriously a small population who cannot even control their small exile community?
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 08, 2012, 10:04:42 AM
Indeed: "so what?"

This is telling of the narrowness of the CTA - that so much attention would be put on enforcing a silly, illogical religious ban when, as leaders of an exiled people, they could do with focusing on much larger issues, international relations and their global standing. While larger nations are focusing on the dire financial situation of the world,  the CTA and Tibetans focus on the petty issues of controlling individuals' religious choices.

I think the point about gratitude is an important one - that the Tibetans have in fact lived on the kindness of so many nations - both in India/ Nepal and in many countries in the West. And yet they will still pick on the one time that support is not extended to them. It's certainly not like the British owe them anything.

It is not so much the act but the prevailing attitudes behind these actions that show the Tibetans to be really rather incapable of doing very much to lead their people and keep them together. If they cannot maintain unity within such a small population of only 100,000, how can they begin to think of achieving a larger freedom and be reunited with their home country? Would a huge super power like China really take seriously a small population who cannot even control their small exile community?

You do have a point there. The Tibetans have only been demanding for international support with virtually nothing to give back. They have been taking so much from the international community and selling their sob stories to so many nations and literally living off India for so many decades. And even now instead of engaging in projects that will benefit india or the world, they keep trying to sell their sob stories to the world and they ask somemore why is the world not helping them. I find it kind of sad in a way.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: hope rainbow on December 09, 2012, 08:10:37 AM
David Cameron has ticked the "visit the Dalai Lama" box, and he is now asking from his ministers to not do more than what was "politically-correct"ly required and to not create a diplomatic incident with China.
Receiving the Dalai Lama once is fair, twice even, but that  British ministers make a habit of it, or line up for their pictures with His Holiness may simply be un-necessary and may even look like proselytism and thus damage the relationship with China.

So the PM has stated: no more visit!
That is how I understand it.
This is called "politic".

On another hand, we could also argue that the Dalai lama is now exclusively a spiritual figure as he has given his temporal political affairs to others. Thus visiting or receiving the Dalai Lama should only be a matter of spirituality...
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: brian on December 09, 2012, 09:57:25 AM
This shows that all big boys countries in the world are starting to give more respect to China and the fear of offending them is increasing. Looking at this, I think in future, it will come to a point where the British govt will encourage the practise of Dorje Shugden in future at the request of China. If they can bar their ministers from receiving Dalai Lama, they can also ignore Dalai Lama's request (if any) to ban the practice of Dorje Shugden in England. So from this angle, I can rejoice that Dorje Shugden practice will be flourishing in England just like Taiwan where their government is being supportive of what China like and dislike.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Rihanna on December 09, 2012, 06:10:00 PM
I think it is admirable of the British government to protect their people first. Whether or not the British think they are doing a good job is besides the point. That will be decided in an election. And whether or not the Tibetans think they are succumbing to the Chinese is also besides the point. After all who does a government have a responsibility to? The people who voted for them.

So the Tibetans are very ungrateful to mock the British in this way, as though they accepted a Chinese bribe, given how much support and financial aid the British have already given to them in the past. And what did the Tibetans do with that money? How much did they change or establish in 50 years? Some countries like China can do so so much in 50 years, and develop their economy by huge leaps and bounds. What have the Tibetans accomplished? Don't need to talk about the fact they don't have a country. Even if they don't have a country, how much have they helped India to develop?

That tells you where their heart is in receiving foreign aid, and how effectively they have been using it to help their people.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: dondrup on December 09, 2012, 07:20:58 PM
Britain does not want to offend China because Britain simply cannot afford to lose its trade ties with China as it is not doing well in its economy.  HH Dalai Lama’s visit to their country is not important and relevant compared to the well being of its economy.  It is entirely Britain’s prerogative and Tibetans should not protest against Britain for its refusal to meet HH Dalai Lama.  Tibetans lacked gratitude for the help they have received previously from Britain.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: DharmaDefender on December 10, 2012, 06:53:39 AM
I just wanted to share this with everyone. Someone posted on the Facebook post (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/)) with the following:

Quote
Jigmee Dorjee Sherpa
The British PM is a thug,an absolute Elitist,look at how his government is treating the Julian Assange/wikileaks case...pure evil!wat do u expect!?human rights/Rule of law never felt this shitty...i believe it'll only worsen! and r we ready?


I thought it pretty disgusting how little gratitude the bloke has. Its reflective of the general Tibetan attitude isnt it? Take a persons money and accuse the donors of all sorts of things, just because they dont agree with their opinions. Its quite immature to be honest... banning things, accusing people just because you cant play nice.

No wonder Tibetans havent got back their country... having taken and taken and taken from everyone, theyve been creating the karma all this while for the Chinese to take their most precious thing from them, which is their country.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 10, 2012, 07:06:41 AM
I just wanted to share this with everyone. Someone posted on the Facebook post ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/[/url])) with the following:

Quote
Jigmee Dorjee Sherpa
The British PM is a thug,an absolute Elitist,look at how his government is treating the Julian Assange/wikileaks case...pure evil!wat do u expect!?human rights/Rule of law never felt this shitty...i believe it'll only worsen! and r we ready?


I thought it pretty disgusting how little gratitude the bloke has. Its reflective of the general Tibetan attitude isnt it? Take a persons money and accuse the donors of all sorts of things, just because they dont agree with their opinions. Its quite immature to be honest... banning things, accusing people just because you cant play nice.

No wonder Tibetans havent got back their country... having taken and taken and taken from everyone, theyve been creating the karma all this while for the Chinese to take their most precious thing from them, which is their country.


The Tibetans have this fanatical, undying love for the Dalai Lama, but it does not mean that they are always doing the right thing, and neither does it mean that the love and devotion that they have for the Dalai Lama a pure one. As Dharamsala gets hooked up to the internet, the emergence of more and more rude Tibetans on various websites have emerged. They are found on youtube, on facebook and even on the comment that Dharmadefender has posted. I dont know if they just prefer to use violence to solve everything or express their anger as if they have a right to do so, but one thing for sure is that attitude will get them nowhere.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Big Uncle on December 11, 2012, 10:13:18 AM
Wow! What compelling news this is and it is very telling of our times as there is a recession in Europe (including England) and EU is expecting a powerful injection of billions from the Chinese to resuscitate their slacking economies. Therefore, it is not surprising that Britain reacted in this manner.

Even if Britain would like to assist the Tibetans via the Dalai Lama, very little has been achieved especially in the political arena. The Dalai Lama's medieval ban on Dorje Shugden reflects the Tibetans backward views of religion and society. Anyway, what use is there in meeting the Dalai Lama, especially since there are more pressing issues back home like the slagging economy, employment and so forth. These issues by right, should be addressed first and everything else like the Tibetan cause and the Dalai Lama is secondary.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 11, 2012, 10:49:24 AM
Wow! What compelling news this is and it is very telling of our times as there is a recession in Europe (including England) and EU is expecting a powerful injection of billions from the Chinese to resuscitate their slacking economies. Therefore, it is not surprising that Britain reacted in this manner.

Even if Britain would like to assist the Tibetans via the Dalai Lama, very little has been achieved especially in the political arena. The Dalai Lama's medieval ban on Dorje Shugden reflects the Tibetans backward views of religion and society. Anyway, what use is there in meeting the Dalai Lama, especially since there are more pressing issues back home like the slagging economy, employment and so forth. These issues by right, should be addressed first and everything else like the Tibetan cause and the Dalai Lama is secondary.

The bigger picture with this is that the Dalai Lama's influence over the world's politics is on a wane. Big nations no longer herald his arrival with red carpets and flashy welcomes, he's just another member of the political world and thus the respect has been less now. It could be due to the Dalai Lama's frequent travel, to the point that everyone is numb to it now. It could also be that Tibet has nothing to offer to the world, aside from more self immolation victims. It means that Tibet's presence in the world is fast declining and the Dalai Lama not being respected by some nations is an indication.

Stop the self immolations before everyone turns a deaf ear.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: vajratruth on December 11, 2012, 03:00:57 PM
I think there is a difference between Britain rejecting the Dalai Lama as a holy monk-sage and Britain rejecting the Dalai Lama, the politician. In the years since His Holiness’s escape from Tibet, he has successfully branded himself as a “simple monk” who became synonymous with world peace and cultural and religious tolerance. Except for China there is no country in the world that has not in the past welcomed the Dalai Lama as a citizen of the world and messenger of hope and all good things.

But the “simple monk” has also been forced to be a politician during a very difficult time in Tibet’s history and this is where his own government has failed him terribly by refusing to take up responsibility for their own country and instead sent a religious man to pitch against a rising super power.

Not much political gains were made by the Tibetan Government, first the Tibetan Government In Exile and now the Central Tibetan Administration during the honeymoon period which spanned half a century when the Dalai Lama was romancing the world and now the world economies, faced with an ongoing aftermath of a barrage of global financial meltdowns have to choose between harsh political and economic reality or quixotic idealism.

Britain like many other countries see China as a possible salvation to the world economic woes and as China start to gain prominence globally, and as countries all over shift their stance towards China, and even as the US moderate its policies towards the rising super power, the CTA remained in its village mentality.  And instead of harnessing the goodwill that the Dalai Lama has generated over the years and formulate a sensible strategy that could draw China to the negotiation table, and instead of focusing its attention on moderating the expectations of its own people towards a fully fledged Tibetan independence, the CTA channeled its resources into persecuting its own people.

The CTA failed His Holiness The Dalai Lama and the Tibetan people it was meant to represent when it failed to assume ownership of its role to unite the people. Imagine if the CTA has stepped in quickly to curb early rumblings of sectarian rivalry that may have arisen out of esoteric philosophical differences between the various schools of Tibetan Buddhism. Imagine if it had advised and supported the Dalai Lama to court the Chinese Government instead of western powers that China deemed as hostile to its growth.

I am not saying that the Dalai Lama is incapable. On his own, His Holiness has managed to do so much to bring attention to the plight of the Tibetans but there is no political leader that does not need strong support and good advice from his own cabinet and think tank. And so today we the result of the world’s most renowned spiritual figure being turned down by heads of state or otherwise being shown out the back door literally.

Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 13, 2012, 10:26:39 AM

But the “simple monk” has also been forced to be a politician during a very difficult time in Tibet’s history and this is where his own government has failed him terribly by refusing to take up responsibility for their own country and instead sent a religious man to pitch against a rising super power.

Not much political gains were made by the Tibetan Government, first the Tibetan Government In Exile and now the Central Tibetan Administration during the honeymoon period which spanned half a century when the Dalai Lama was romancing the world and now the world economies, faced with an ongoing aftermath of a barrage of global financial meltdowns have to choose between harsh political and economic reality or quixotic idealism.

I am not saying that the Dalai Lama is incapable. On his own, His Holiness has managed to do so much to bring attention to the plight of the Tibetans but there is no political leader that does not need strong support and good advice from his own cabinet and think tank. And so today we the result of the world’s most renowned spiritual figure being turned down by heads of state or otherwise being shown out the back door literally.

As echoed by many people around the world, religion and politics should not mix. The CTA should actually take the helm from the Dalai Lama and not leave it up to the Dalai Lama to help them build bridges with other nations and to champion the Tibetan cause as that is not HHDL's function. The CTA might have been successful with plonking HHDL into this situation for more than half a decade now, but HHDL is aging and all the visits around the globe would surely have taken a toll on his health. Is independence that important, even more important than HHDL's life? Who is actually shortening HHDL's life here, Dorje Shugden or CTA?
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: lotus1 on December 16, 2012, 08:14:27 AM
Indeed: "so what?"

This is telling of the narrowness of the CTA - that so much attention would be put on enforcing a silly, illogical religious ban when, as leaders of an exiled people, they could do with focusing on much larger issues, international relations and their global standing. While larger nations are focusing on the dire financial situation of the world,  the CTA and Tibetans focus on the petty issues of controlling individuals' religious choices.

I think the point about gratitude is an important one - that the Tibetans have in fact lived on the kindness of so many nations - both in India/ Nepal and in many countries in the West. And yet they will still pick on the one time that support is not extended to them. It's certainly not like the British owe them anything.

It is not so much the act but the prevailing attitudes behind these actions that show the Tibetans to be really rather incapable of doing very much to lead their people and keep them together. If they cannot maintain unity within such a small population of only 100,000, how can they begin to think of achieving a larger freedom and be reunited with their home country? Would a huge super power like China really take seriously a small population who cannot even control their small exile community?


Fully agreed with what beggar has said. There is no point for CTA to focus into poor me story about how people look at them. In fact, they should look into how to lead their people and unite their people. Especially they should not create schism among their people and neglect the human rights for the Shugden practitioners.

Respect is to be earned. If you have lead your people living in harmony, peace, prosperity and unity, you will naturally gain the respect from other countries. 
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: tsangpakarpo on December 16, 2012, 08:56:43 AM
The Dalai Lama has gone around the entire world to meet highly distinguished world leaders. But think about it..what has the Tibetans as a whole gained from that?

From a spiritual point of view, it is a blessing for us to meet the Dalai Lama as he is the emanation of the great Bodhisattva Chenrezig. At the very least, meeting this great being will plant a dharma seed in our mind. It is much more that just that but lets keep it simple for now.

But from a secular view, what benefits do both sides get? The Dalai Lama has met many world leaders for many years now but Tibet still remains under the control of China. I strongly believe this will remain the same for a long time to come.

Instead of all the fighting and jealousy and self immolation, why don't both Tibet and China unite to be a great powerhouse instead of Tibet being the loser right now? I do not think China will treat the Tibetans badly if they decide to unite. What is the point? Tibet is part of China so of course they will take good care of their own citizens.

With this, the Dalai Lama and all Tibetans can return to their home country AND the Dalai Lama can do much more. Can you imagine the Dalai Lama giving teachings in Tibet with the presence of over millions of people coming from various parts of China? and thousands of others flying in from various parts of the world?

Tibet will shine once again!! This may be a dream now but this dream is easily achievable. COME ON CTA, think!
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on December 19, 2012, 09:45:49 AM
Indeed: "so what?"

This is telling of the narrowness of the CTA - that so much attention would be put on enforcing a silly, illogical religious ban when, as leaders of an exiled people, they could do with focusing on much larger issues, international relations and their global standing. While larger nations are focusing on the dire financial situation of the world,  the CTA and Tibetans focus on the petty issues of controlling individuals' religious choices.

I think the point about gratitude is an important one - that the Tibetans have in fact lived on the kindness of so many nations - both in India/ Nepal and in many countries in the West. And yet they will still pick on the one time that support is not extended to them. It's certainly not like the British owe them anything.

It is not so much the act but the prevailing attitudes behind these actions that show the Tibetans to be really rather incapable of doing very much to lead their people and keep them together. If they cannot maintain unity within such a small population of only 100,000, how can they begin to think of achieving a larger freedom and be reunited with their home country? Would a huge super power like China really take seriously a small population who cannot even control their small exile community?


Fully agreed with what beggar has said. There is no point for CTA to focus into poor me story about how people look at them. In fact, they should look into how to lead their people and unite their people. Especially they should not create schism among their people and neglect the human rights for the Shugden practitioners.

Respect is to be earned. If you have lead your people living in harmony, peace, prosperity and unity, you will naturally gain the respect from other countries.

As much as they should not focus on poor me stories, they still do and they still use it as a means to promote their Tibetan independence, especially on all the self immolations going on, mainly because they dont have anything else to show the world. It would be great if there was a great Tibetan architect somewhere, or a Tibetan who have achieved something really good for the community of people he or she is living in outside of Dharamsala but achieved it using Tibetan means and it is really something to be celebrated and talked about, then perhaps, the Tibetan cause would have a bit more weight than its current state.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: WisdomBeing on January 01, 2013, 09:03:00 AM
Since Britain is the country being highlighted in this post, and i live here, let me give my tuppence worth. There is no country in the world who is selfless. Everyone has an agenda and understandably so. It's because each country is responsible for its citizens. i am sure David Cameron would be more than happy to have cups of tea with HH the Dalai Lama and it would look good to most people if he were to do so, however, it would NOT look good to the Chinese.

This was proven in point when David Cameron and his Deputy Nick Clegg met HH the Dalai Lama when he visited London in May 2012, which prompted a senior Chinese Communist Party leader, Wu Bangguo to cancel his visit to UK. It is simply not politically expedient for any member of the British government to meet with the Dalai Lama. It is sad but true when the question is asked - what does Britain get for standing up for the Tibetans? Yet we do. But we can only do what we can - i.e. request via diplomatic means.

"We urge the Chinese authorities to exercise restraint. ... We strongly support the resumption of meaningful dialogue to resolve the underlying grievances of Tibetan communities," British Foreign Office Minister Hugo Swire said in London following a European Union statement on self-immolations in Tibet region. (19 December http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=784120 (http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=784120) - interestingly enough, i didn't see this statement reported in local news or maybe i missed it)

However the response was that the Chinese said that we were interfering with their internal affairs. So what do people expect us to do? Cut off trade with China? China won't suffer but we will. It is a fact of life that the whole of Europe is weak. When we are weak, we do not fight with the strong. Again. Sad truths.

So let our government be. They are already doing the best they can for Tibet, when they have so much more headaches at home to contend with.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on January 02, 2013, 10:17:44 AM
Since Britain is the country being highlighted in this post, and i live here, let me give my tuppence worth. There is no country in the world who is selfless. Everyone has an agenda and understandably so. It's because each country is responsible for its citizens. i am sure David Cameron would be more than happy to have cups of tea with HH the Dalai Lama and it would look good to most people if he were to do so, however, it would NOT look good to the Chinese.

This was proven in point when David Cameron and his Deputy Nick Clegg met HH the Dalai Lama when he visited London in May 2012, which prompted a senior Chinese Communist Party leader, Wu Bangguo to cancel his visit to UK. It is simply not politically expedient for any member of the British government to meet with the Dalai Lama. It is sad but true when the question is asked - what does Britain get for standing up for the Tibetans? Yet we do. But we can only do what we can - i.e. request via diplomatic means.

"We urge the Chinese authorities to exercise restraint. ... We strongly support the resumption of meaningful dialogue to resolve the underlying grievances of Tibetan communities," British Foreign Office Minister Hugo Swire said in London following a European Union statement on self-immolations in Tibet region. (19 December [url]http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=784120[/url] ([url]http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=784120[/url]) - interestingly enough, i didn't see this statement reported in local news or maybe i missed it)

However the response was that the Chinese said that we were interfering with their internal affairs. So what do people expect us to do? Cut off trade with China? China won't suffer but we will. It is a fact of life that the whole of Europe is weak. When we are weak, we do not fight with the strong. Again. Sad truths.

So let our government be. They are already doing the best they can for Tibet, when they have so much more headaches at home to contend with.


All the British can offer, it seems to me, are pleas towards China that they may exercise restraint on the Tibetans or at least allow them more freedom, things that I am sure that China will not entertain. There is nothing much basically that will convince China to free Tibet no matter how many nations plead to China that they should give independence to Tibet because China is strong and they are the biggest economic power at this point of time and they are not showing signs of slowing down anytime soon while the european countries are starting to break down. 2013 is not a good year for Europe, so even if they support the cause, nothing much can be done for the actual freedom of the Tibetans.
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: DharmaDefender on January 25, 2013, 06:53:40 AM
I just wanted to share this with everyone. Someone posted on the Facebook post ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/[/url] ([url]http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/so-what-if-britain-didnt-want-to-meet-the-dalai-lama/[/url])) with the following:

Quote
Jigmee Dorjee Sherpa
The British PM is a thug,an absolute Elitist,look at how his government is treating the Julian Assange/wikileaks case...pure evil!wat do u expect!?human rights/Rule of law never felt this shitty...i believe it'll only worsen! and r we ready?


I thought it pretty disgusting how little gratitude the bloke has. Its reflective of the general Tibetan attitude isnt it? Take a persons money and accuse the donors of all sorts of things, just because they dont agree with their opinions. Its quite immature to be honest... banning things, accusing people just because you cant play nice.

No wonder Tibetans havent got back their country... having taken and taken and taken from everyone, theyve been creating the karma all this while for the Chinese to take their most precious thing from them, which is their country.


The Tibetans have this fanatical, undying love for the Dalai Lama, but it does not mean that they are always doing the right thing, and neither does it mean that the love and devotion that they have for the Dalai Lama a pure one. As Dharamsala gets hooked up to the internet, the emergence of more and more rude Tibetans on various websites have emerged. They are found on youtube, on facebook and even on the comment that Dharmadefender has posted. I dont know if they just prefer to use violence to solve everything or express their anger as if they have a right to do so, but one thing for sure is that attitude will get them nowhere.


Well I once read something on the Internet that is a little un-PC...arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded. So now when I meet a Tibetan online, unless their open-minded I really dont give a toss what they have to say. Why should I bother about the opinions of a race that seems intent on the self-implosion of its faith and culture, when there are 6 billion other people who can take up Dorje Shugden as a practice?

Anyway, un-PC comments aside, regarding the Tibetans - since their anger is so obvious online, you must wonder what facing one of them is like when theres no barrier of the Internet to keep you safe.

In other news, unemployment in Spain has hit a high with 26% of Spaniards being unemployed as 55% of young people have no jobs. Can you blame European governments for not being so concerned about the Tibetan situation, when their own economies and political systems are in meltdown?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267619/Spanish-unemployment-leaps-new-high-26-55-young-people-work.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267619/Spanish-unemployment-leaps-new-high-26-55-young-people-work.html)
Title: Re: So what if Britain didn’t want to meet the Dalai Lama?
Post by: Ensapa on January 25, 2013, 08:54:47 AM

Well I once read something on the Internet that is a little un-PC...arguing on the Internet is like running in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, your still retarded. So now when I meet a Tibetan online, unless their open-minded I really dont give a toss what they have to say. Why should I bother about the opinions of a race that seems intent on the self-implosion of its faith and culture, when there are 6 billion other people who can take up Dorje Shugden as a practice?

Anyway, un-PC comments aside, regarding the Tibetans - since their anger is so obvious online, you must wonder what facing one of them is like when theres no barrier of the Internet to keep you safe.

In other news, unemployment in Spain has hit a high with 26% of Spaniards being unemployed as 55% of young people have no jobs. Can you blame European governments for not being so concerned about the Tibetan situation, when their own economies and political systems are in meltdown?

[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267619/Spanish-unemployment-leaps-new-high-26-55-young-people-work.html[/url] ([url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2267619/Spanish-unemployment-leaps-new-high-26-55-young-people-work.html[/url])


I also recall that Tibetans see themselves as a product between an ogress and a monkey, with the monkey being an emanation of Chenrezig and as such, they inherited the ferociously of the ogress and the kindness and tenderness of the monkey. Perhaps it is this 'cultural' belief that they are clinging on to that makes them feel like they are entitled to behaving in a certain way. I can only imagine the chaos that would happen if the Dalai Lama was not there to hold them back. But as we can observe now, the latest influx of Tibetans are getting more and more wild...not a good sign. They're supposed to be more civil. CTA isnt doing their job right.