dorjeshugden.com
About Dorje Shugden => General Discussion => Topic started by: donoharm on October 21, 2013, 10:23:02 PM
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http://truedalailama.com/?page_id=336 (http://truedalailama.com/?page_id=336)
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All these are truly a violation of human rights and religious freedom, it is utterly, utterly disgusting. To deny someone the most basic amenity definitely contravenes universally fundamental human rights laws, observed especially in democratic nations like India. I wonder how it can happen in India. Religious apartheid on Shugden practitioners is causing schism in the sangha community, sending out the message of this prosecution as undharmic and unBuddhistic. Buddhism, is a religion that is known for its tolerance, kindness and middle way path but what is happening now? It certainly reflects poorly on the Government in Exile as primitive and mentally disarray for implementing this prosecution amongst their own people while the Dalai Lama on the world stage is preaching the holy principles of Buddhism and is seen as the peace maker. Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.
Shame, shame CTA! Lift the ban now and make peace with Dorje Shugden!
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Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.
How fanciful. Then it was the CTA forcing poor Dalai Lama to harshly threat monks if they did not give up the Protector practice, is it?
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All these are truly a violation of human rights and religious freedom, it is utterly, utterly disgusting. To deny someone the most basic amenity definitely contravenes universally fundamental human rights laws, observed especially in democratic nations like India. I wonder how it can happen in India. Religious apartheid on Shugden practitioners is causing schism in the sangha community, sending out the message of this prosecution as undharmic and unBuddhistic. Buddhism, is a religion that is known for its tolerance, kindness and middle way path but what is happening now? It certainly reflects poorly on the Government in Exile as primitive and mentally disarray for implementing this prosecution amongst their own people while the Dalai Lama on the world stage is preaching the holy principles of Buddhism and is seen as the peace maker. Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.
Shame, shame CTA! Lift the ban now and make peace with Dorje Shugden!
So, I think I agree that these are a violation of human rights, and utterly disgusting. So, I think you know, it is clear that the CTA was headed by his holiness Dalai Lama when the ban first went into effect. He's stepped down but all he has to do is tell them to lift the ban and they would do it.
I think though, that as a Buddha teaching in reverse, the Dalai lama would be pointing out that we should totally disregard anything he says, because he is a politician. he is clearly teaching against us following him around like donkies, but in reverse. So, I personally take his teaching very much to heart and would never listen to him or take a tantric vow with him, as he is giving the appearance of politics. That's in case he's a Buddha. I can't tell of course, so I continue to do Vajrasattva for him, so he won't get bad karma.
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People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..
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People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..
Are you saying that the Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of the Tibetans? Because he actually declared himself that, this life. Before he was political leader. Interestingly, upon meeting the west, he was suddenly in charge of everything spiritual as well.
So, no, he really isn't supposed to be, and most Tibetans I knew tried to avoid him, unless they happen to be with him. All due respect to those who like the Dalai Lama--- every authentic Buddhist teacher I've met has encouraged and allowed questions--- even questions of whether or not they are right by thier Bodhisattva and tantric vow holding practitioners.
It is a sad confusion of tantra to think we have to do whatever someone says just because we've been to an empowerment. This is never what Shakyamuni or Vajradhara had in mind.... they weren't giving excuses to dictators. Sometimes teachers can give the appearance of being wrong; it is okay to tell authentic teachers that we disagree.
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People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..
Unfortunately that is not the case. The people did NOT have a choice. The so-called "choice" not to obey the Dalai Lama comes at a considerable cost. For example, if you are a monk and you do not toe the official line to deny your Guru and abandon Dorje Shugden, you will be expelled (like 450 monks from Dokhang Khangtsen who were forced to separate from Ganden Shartse and then went on to found Shar Ganden. See http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/gaden-monks-forced-to-swear-against-dorje-shugden-video/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/gaden-monks-forced-to-swear-against-dorje-shugden-video/) ). Similar case with Pomra Khangtsen of Sera Monastery who separated and went on to become Serpom. Even senior lamas like Trijang Choktrul Rinpoche received death threats. Kundeling Rinpoche was accused of being a terrorist and had his ladrang seized. The great Gangchen Rinpoche was ridiculed and put on a 'hit list'. I would not call this a genuine free choice.
If you are a lay person then you literally cannot function in the community, cannot attend social gatherings, get sundries and provisions from shops and also receive public welfare such as medical treatment. ( See http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/religious-apartheid-in-tibetan-communities/ (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/religious-apartheid-in-tibetan-communities/) )
(http://www.dorjeshugden.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/DrepungSign-1.jpg)
There was never a choice. The Dalai Lama, the ex Tibetan Prime MinisterSamdhong Rinpoche, the CTA, and even Tibetan Youth Congress decreed a witch hunt and sanctioned an illegal mass persecution of Shugden worshippers. Hardly a choice regardless of what these people may see in public. The CTA and Tibetan leadership have been proven over and over again to lie blatantly and their conscience were seared a long time ago. Therefore it is wise not to listen to what they say but instead look at what they are doing. Why are so many Shugden practitioners in hiding if there was free choice?
The violation of human rights is not the worst assault on the Tibetan people. The most damaging effect of the ban which the CTA/Dalai Lama's office is still enforcing, is the schism they have created within the sangha, the distortion of the Buddha Dharma, the corruption of the sanctity of the Guru-Disciple oath which has preserved the purity of the various lineages for centuries, and the undermining of the Tibetan cause by weakening the base via disharmony.
If the Dalai Lama is truly divorced from politics, then why isn't the CTA making their own decisions? Why is it that the CTA is completely disregarding the majority of the Tibetan people's wish for full Tibetan independence and instead implementing the Dalai Lama's Middle Way? That are many 'whys' but in truth it is an academic discussion. Academic because ultimately you cannot awaken someone who is pretending to be asleep, just like the CTA is pretending to be a democracy.
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Surely the CTA is the real enemy of the Dalai Lama opposing at home his teaching of the Buddhist principles.
How fanciful. Then it was the CTA forcing poor Dalai Lama to harshly threat monks if they did not give up the Protector practice, is it?
Well, true that... I think that opposing CTA is the best bet right now because they are suppose to be democratic governing body and if you care to look in their constitution, they are suppose to be upholding religious freedom. No secular state would function in this hypocritical manner. The Dalai Lama has stepped down and naturally all the power is in their hands. They can easily overwrite the Dalai Lama by relegating the Dorje Shugden ban to the monasteries but in secular affairs, there should be no ban. I think that as long as we keep publicising the truth and how they can make a difference, there would be a bigger chance for them to start the ball rolling for the ban to come down. Don't you think?
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How is it that freedom of choice of worship, which is supposed to be enshrined in any democratic constitution, like the Tibetan one, is not being practiced? How is it that CTA doesn't honor the freedom of choice of spiritual practice?
When freedom of choice is denied and suffering results, then even the basic compassion that is the essence of Buddhism is not practiced by the CTA and its supporters.How can ostracism be practiced to the extent of inflicting pain and suffering? Shugden practitioners are being denied entry into shops to buy their daily groceries and necessities. They are not allowed into monasteries, including Ganden Jangtse, Sera and Drepung, Loseling,Dhokhang Khangtsen, Goman in Bylakuppe and in Southern India. Even a library in Southern India is denying entry to Shugden worshippers. The list goes on and on.It is sad to see this happen.
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People has the choice to choose to follow or not following what others had said. Dalai Lama is the spiritual and political of the Tibetans. Those who are pro-Dalai Lama have chosen to listen to him regardless whether he is their guru. Unfortunately it also mean putting those words into actions which translate into sectarian between the Tibetan who don't practice Dorje Shugden and who those who do..
Are you saying that the Dalai Lama is the spiritual leader of the Tibetans? Because he actually declared himself that, this life. Before he was political leader. Interestingly, upon meeting the west, he was suddenly in charge of everything spiritual as well.
So, no, he really isn't supposed to be, and most Tibetans I knew tried to avoid him, unless they happen to be with him. All due respect to those who like the Dalai Lama--- every authentic Buddhist teacher I've met has encouraged and allowed questions--- even questions of whether or not they are right by thier Bodhisattva and tantric vow holding practitioners.
It is a sad confusion of tantra to think we have to do whatever someone says just because we've been to an empowerment. This is never what Shakyamuni or Vajradhara had in mind.... they weren't giving excuses to dictators. Sometimes teachers can give the appearance of being wrong; it is okay to tell authentic teachers that we disagree.
This is an interesting point which i didn't know before. Are you saying that the Dalai Lama was NOT the spiritual AND temporal head of Tibet and he was only the temporal? Perhaps it is like how the Queen of England is seen as the head of the Anglican church but in reality she is just a figurehead. I don't know enough about the history of Tibetan hegemony to be able to comment on this but perhaps if you could expand further on this?
In any case, i do believe that the Dalai Lama would be able to stop the ostracisation of Dorje Shugden practitioners immediately by lifting the ban or at the very least, condemning the ostracisation. He could still say that people should not do this practice, but it is completely unjustifiable to not allow Dorje Shugden practitioners to purchase groceries at certain shops, attend the mainstream monasteries, send their children to school, have travel papers etc. This is completely contradictory to Buddhist compassion, isn't it? I am amazed that this has gone unchallenged by the majority for so many years.
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Well, true that... I think that opposing CTA is the best bet right now because they are suppose to be democratic governing body and if you care to look in their constitution, they are suppose to be upholding religious freedom. No secular state would function in this hypocritical manner. The Dalai Lama has stepped down and naturally all the power is in their hands. They can easily overwrite the Dalai Lama by relegating the Dorje Shugden ban to the monasteries but in secular affairs, there should be no ban. I think that as long as we keep publicising the truth and how they can make a difference, there would be a bigger chance for them to start the ball rolling for the ban to come down. Don't you think?
Probably the ban is an essential part of the Western-supported power architecture which keeps both the Dalai Lama *and* the CTA in power.
And probably this Western-supported power architecture (which goes back at least to the 13th Dalai Lama) is what has to go so that there are no more bans.
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I think the ban more or less had its benefits as well as disadvantages. The main thing is that Dorje Shugden is being practiced in many places of the world and most importantly the mass population in China. Going on about this, the only thing that I would not stand for is the discrimination against the Dorje Shugden practitioners. They are constantly being mistreated and victimised. Shame on the people who condoned such acts to the harmless. Freedom of religion should be promoted to all human beings and not being just a few who has powers.
May the ban be lifted as soon as possible so that people who are under constant threat and harm be freed from their oain and more and more people will get to practice the sacreed practice of Dorje Shugden!
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Tibetans had experienced so much suffering at the time when China conquered Tibet. Tibetans had endured every conceivable pain of separation of loved ones, lost of homes, lost of livelihood, deaths due to war, lost of wealth, lost of country and so on. Now Tibetans in exile are stateless! Tibetans in China do no have the complete freedom of life as they see fit.
It is really idiotic that Tibetans want to impose further hardships on their own kind just because they practise Dorje Shugden; a sacred practice that was passed down by highly enlightened Buddhist Masters like Kyabje Pabongka Rinpoche, Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche! CTA, and detractors of Dorje Shugden are adding salt to the already swollen wound by imposing the ban on Dorje Shugden!
These signages prohibiting the Shugden followers from entering the premises concerned are totally unacceptable! It is sheer discrimination of the worst kind ever! Where in the scriptures of Buddhism do you find teachings that reject, discriminate, hate, segregate, divide, ex-communicate, deprive and etc the Tibetan Shugden followers? Buddhism taught to accept and love all beings without exception. This ban is implying Shugden followers are the exception and to be excluded from all beings!
Tibetan Shugden followers should enjoy all the rights as accorded by the constitution adopted by the Tibetans' CTA. NO DISCRIMINATION PLEASE!
What comes to mind when the foreign non-Buddhists were to visit these prestigious Gelug monasteries see these signages?
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I believe that His Holiness has His higher purpose on implementing the ban, we may not have enough faith in His Holiness and therefore it's obvious why we can't see His real intention. As long as we continue to speak up and do whatever we should do, things that doesn't violate peace. As time passes by, I believe that our hard work will pay off.
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Inflicting pain and suffering for a higher cause? Personally I don't buy that anymore especially when it had been on going for more than 20 years.
If the CTA and Dalai Lama do practise Buddhism, then it is time to stop. I rather not speculate on a bigger cause but to find ways to stop this segregation, division and confusion among lay Buddhists.
The time to lift the Ban is now.
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I believe that His Holiness has His higher purpose on implementing the ban,
In general, any religious ban is a bestial attempt to curtail human freedom, and therefore nothing could have a lower purpose than just that.
Specifically, the ban imposed by the evil dalie creates schism within the Sangha, and thus qualifies as the worst out of the five evil actions of immediate retribution.
Therefore, if one believes the words spoken by the Buddha, the evil dalie immediately after death will be reborn in the deepest of hells, where he will probably explain to his delighted admirers the details of his "high purposes".
Bottom line, you chose to believe in the evil cult leader dalie lame, and to disbelieve, mock, and disdain the words spoken by the Buddha, and therefore it is just natural that you promote the worst of the 5 evil actions of immediate retribution as something "high" and "holy".
we may not have enough faith in His Holiness
This is because most of us on this website are Buddhists, and therefore our faith is placed on the Three Jewels, rather than on an evil cult leader promoting the 5 evil actions of immediate retribution, such as the evil dalie.
and therefore it's obvious why we can't see His real intention.
Any Buddhist can see very clearly the real intention of any evildoer creating schism within the Sangha, which is to harm the Buddha's teachings and sentient beings.
You too can see this intention because as a follower of the evil cult leader dalie lame this is your own intention, but you cannot confess to it, which is a different thing.
As long as we continue to speak up
Speak up supporting the creation of schism within the Sangha as something "holy" and "high", as you do?
and do whatever we should do, things that doesn't violate peace.
You brazenly violate peace when you support the creation of schism within the Sangha as something "high" and "holy". Therefore your hypocritical preaching is a just a lie.
As time passes by, I believe that our hard work will pay off.
Everything pays off according to karma, including in the hell realms reserved to those creating schism within the Sangha, or supporting such evil actions.
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For many people new to Buddhism especially to Tibetan Buddhism, seeing this rift within Tibetan Buddhism is very disturbing. Buddhism is supposed to be a peaceful religion. Guess the key word here is "supposed" because there is obviously very little peace in view of the ban and ensuing violence and schism. So, for newcomers, how do we reconcile or we do not reconcile and leave. Does this not then fall under the category of discouraging someone from dharma which in itself carries heavy negative karma as well?
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For many people new to Buddhism especially to Tibetan Buddhism, seeing this rift within Tibetan Buddhism is very disturbing.
People sincerely interested in Tibetan Buddhism will pay attention to the pure teachings of authentic lamas; insincere people only will pay attention to “rifts” and politics.
Buddhism is supposed to be a peaceful religion. Guess the key word here is "supposed" because there is obviously very little peace in view of the ban and ensuing violence and schism.
The nature of Buddhism does not change because of the opinion of people more interested in “rifts” and politics than in the Buddha's teachings.
So, for newcomers, how do we reconcile or we do not reconcile and leave.
There is no need to “reconcile” Buddhism with politics. Insincere people willing to “reconcile” Buddhism with politics are not into Buddhism anyway, whereby it makes little difference if they “leave”.
Does this not then fall under the category of discouraging someone from dharma which in itself carries heavy negative karma as well?
Refusing to mix Dharma with politics surely falls under the category of holding pure Dharma, which carries the most powerful skillful karma. Therefore, do not be afraid to refrain from such mixing.
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This is absolutely ridiculous and I hate how people discriminate the poor Shugden people in These countries. They are being pulled from their human rights. Why the discrimination? They are just following a religion choice, and last time I checked, believing in something is legal. These poor people are being discriminated and treated like criminals in their own country. It is ridiculous and it makes me sick.
You know whats the worst part? The world ignores these poor people and let them suffer. Because everybody denies there is anything to show and discriminate. THAT IS A LIE OBVIOUSLY. So we need to help these people and we need to show the world that this is happening. We need to stop this discrimination.
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Because everybody denies there is anything to show and discriminate. THAT IS A LIE OBVIOUSLY.
This is because truth, or reality, sounds far-fetched even to some dedicated Shugdenpas, as exemplified by our dear Dondrup Shugden in a recent post (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4321.0 (http://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/index.php?topic=4321.0)).
Now, if even dedicated Shugdenpas allow themselves to be brainwashed by the official propaganda, the “obvious lies” spread by the media, let alone the rest of the world lacking any clue about the workings of the evil dalie and his puppet-masters.
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Religious Discrimination. Why are Dorje Shugden practitioners being treated differently especially in places like India, Nepal and Tibet? Why are the lineage and practice of Dorje Shugden being banned? How will you feel if you are a Dorje Shugden practitioner? How do you feel when everybody rejects to help you especially when you are in a deep trouble? How can the government even allow this kind of activity? Is it fair, the way they treat Dorje Shugden practitioners? The reason why the monks do not want to give up practicing Dorje Shugden is because they have promised their gurus to never stop practicing Dorje Shugden until they reach enlightenment. Religious Discrimination should never be allowed in any countries. We must not force someone to give up their practice just because it is wrong in our opinion. I really pity the people who practice Dorje Shugden in India, Nepal and Tibet (especially the ones in Southern India). But I feel really proud that our Dharma brothers and sisters didn't give up their practices even though they have to go through all these things. Some people in those places would literally throw bricks at your houses or monasteries just because you are a Dorje Shugden practitioner. I thank you for your courage and it has made me want to spread Dorje Shugden's practice even more.