At least, unlike ex-Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, the Dalai Lama does not forbid his students from reading certain books, forbid them from making their own choices. He only says they must not propitiate Shugden and take part in INITIATIONS from him. But you didn’t mention Shugden follower, ex-Geshe Gyatso’s behaviour in going against many of his teachers… or how his institution canvases the streets for ‘buddhists’, then criticises the Dalai Lama and many other teachers? (Just as you also didn’t mention reports of the murder of monks by Shugden followers that are responsible for much of the the aggression and violence between monks today?). You don’t need me to give you links…. you can find this info yourself.

Of course, what we chose to decide is up to us. I’m sure there are flaws on both sides.

Your statement that ‘your personal choice stops being personal when your face is put up all over the Tibetan settlements’…. well I can truly sympathise with any monks that have endured violence because of their beliefs. As I am sure you will be aware, the Dalai Lama would strongly oppose violence on either side. But it still does not mean HHDL did not have the right to make changes that, as you say, in all good motivation, he believes are for the best for his followers. Free thought and right to choose are central to the teachings, and cannot exclude the Dalai Lama himself.

Personally I would not want to follow him if he had to remain fixed to old traditions and values whether he felt them valid or relevant. In Shugden’s case, whether we agree or not, he believes the spirit to be potentially dangerous. I, for one, want to follow a free-thinking teacher that will make changes he deems necessary, even if this causes difficulties for himself – as this has done.

I am sorry we have this divide, I am particularly sorry for suffering and violence that arise because of it on both sides. But that people like you and me waste our time opposing each other’s beliefs is what’s most against the Buddhist tradition isn’t it? It’s time we just agreed to respect each others beliefs – both, no doubt, based upon conditioning. That’s the real enemy here.

At the end of the day, people can choose whether to attend teachings and initiations by the Dalai Lama or not. Choose whether to read his books or not.
As you say, his choices, whether we agree or not, are not ‘without good motivation’. So let’s find peace over it.

Your right, nowhere does it say that students have to follow everything their teachers tell them… so why have a teacher at all if your going to pick and choose what to follow and what to discard, based on your deluded view? The Dalai Lama himself has said before that after 12 years of examining your teacher, one should stop (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/oct/08/tibetan-lamas-buddhism). I think the Dalai Lama has been Trijang Rinpoches student for more than 12 years… so why does he still question the practices that Trijang Rinpoche gave to him?

As for attacks, here you go:

(1) http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/clashes-and-curfews/

(2) http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/what-is-wrong-with-tibetan-society/

(3) http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/dalai-lama-supporters-violently-oppress-buddhist-monks-in-mundgod-india/

Please take note of the sources. They are from newspapers that arent known to be supportive of Dorje Shugden, so theres no reason for bias. If there was no threat of violence against Shugden worshippers, why did the Indian police feel the need to protect the conference against Tibetan protestors and throw up a curfew? So you might want to rethink what you said when you have no evidence of Shugden worshippers being attacked, but them actually doing the attacking.

And your right, at the core of Tibetan Buddhist teachings IS personal choice, but it STOPS being personal choice when your face is put up all over the Tibetan settlements and violence is invited against you, simply because of what you believe in. Want to tell me that violence does not happen in the Tibetan settlements amongst the monks, because of what they believe in? Well, Rumtek Monastery was attacked by monks because of the Karmapa issue (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFxphAVnRFo) so the threat of violence is very credible.

Please note Michelle that although I believe the Dalai Lama is manifesting contradiction, I do not think that it is without a good motivation and a reason that we cannot perceive yet.

But as for my confusion, try again Michelle because I am very clear on what I believe in.

You said that as a Buddhist, you should never criticse a Dharma teacher. Okay so let me throw it back to you – why is the Dalai Lama criticising HIS teachers practices, calling them spirit practices? Is he criticising them by saying they are so incapable of distinguishing spirit from Buddha?

Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche both practised Dorje Shugden …and in fact, the Dalai Lama has allowed Trijang Rinpoche to continue this practice. If Dorje Shugden were actually a spirit, why is the Dalai Lama allowing his own teacher to continue with spirit practice?

Our colleagues might shout insults at you, but your colleagues throw rocks at us, throw riots, beat up our monks, expelled our monks out of the monasteries, and forced them to set up their own. You talk about video footage…what about video footage of the Dalai Lama saying its okay to expel monks who dont want to give up this practice? First, the Dalai Lama allowed his own teacher to continue the practice…then made comments allowing for the expulsion of his own teacher from the monastery. If you want to talk about criticising lamas, what is worse than creating conditions for ones own lama to be expelled from the monastery?

I am not criticising the Dalai Lama by the way, merely pointing out how contradictory his actions are (which I believe are manifesting that way for a bigger purpose).

So what point are you trying to make, because your comments are full of contradictions :S

AS A BUDDHIST, ONE SHOULD NEVER CRITICISE A DHARMA TEACHER…. .IF YOU DON’T AGREE, THEN YOU WALK AWAY…but you do not criticize. That is an important Buddhist teaching that you cannot deny. So, as ‘Buddhists’ how can YOU reconcile your attacks on the Dalai Lama and other Lama’s who have every right to choose to no longer follow Shugden if they see fit? THE BUDDHA HIMSELF TAUGHT THIS! Yet, Shugden followers (and New Kadampa leader and Shugden supporter Kelsang Gyatso) verbally attacks His Holiness? So…How can you go against the teachings of The Buddha on one of his main tenets?

Perhaps what I should do is post camera recordings of the aggressive behaviour of some of your colleagues shouting at me and others for attending HHDL’s teachings…. Perhaps what I should do is post footage of followers of Kelsang Gyatso telling students they should only read His Dharma books (In Buddhism students are taught to study widely before making a choice – so again…. this action is COMPLETELY AGAINST BUDDHA’S TEACHINGS).
Perhaps those are the things I should do. But that wouldn’t be Buddhist would it? As it is, I will strive to hold onto my Buddhist teachings and let go. I will strive towards compassion – even to your colleagues who shout insults at me and my Buddhist teachers… and I will strive to gain more wisdom – without being told by anyone what I can and cannot read. I will strive towards realising emptiness – and all the important things that help towards this end. So I hope Shugden and New Kadampa students are striving for the same, because that’s all that really matters.