Comments on: The Karmapas and the Forbidden Buddha https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/ The Protector whose time has come Mon, 02 Mar 2026 18:35:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: BlueUpali https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-49519 BlueUpali Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:49:01 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-49519 Oh-- and to clarify-- at least in the early 2000s, Kagyus from Karmapa's (Thaye Dorje's) side also sometimes experienced ostracism; it is not anywhere near as bad as the actual Shugden ban, but it was dangerous when travelling to stay in the guest house of a Tibetan monestary in Nepal or India if we didn't know the affliation of the monestary. We had to be careful that over zealous supporters of the Dalai Lama didn't decide to harm us; Kagyus in robes had to be particuarily careful. Basically, the Dalai Lama, as far as I can tell, is someone, as the feudal dictator in exile, that most Tibetans seem to either rever or fear; if he decides he doesn't like a group it is best to avoid advertising what group you are in; this does prove difficult as on of the first questions everyone asks upon finding out a western person is Buddhist is, 'who's your lama?" Oh– and to clarify– at least in the early 2000s, Kagyus from Karmapa’s (Thaye Dorje’s) side also sometimes experienced ostracism; it is not anywhere near as bad as the actual Shugden ban, but it was dangerous when travelling to stay in the guest house of a Tibetan monestary in Nepal or India if we didn’t know the affliation of the monestary. We had to be careful that over zealous supporters of the Dalai Lama didn’t decide to harm us; Kagyus in robes had to be particuarily careful.
Basically, the Dalai Lama, as far as I can tell, is someone, as the feudal dictator in exile, that most Tibetans seem to either rever or fear; if he decides he doesn’t like a group it is best to avoid advertising what group you are in; this does prove difficult as on of the first questions everyone asks upon finding out a western person is Buddhist is, ‘who’s your lama?”

]]> By: BlueUpali https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-49518 BlueUpali Sun, 21 Apr 2013 01:33:16 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-49518 I liked this article, but I have to clear something up for people who have traditionally only been Gelugpa, because maybe they don't understand the mentality of those who study in the Kagyupa school. Both schools (Gelugpa and Kagyu) are immensely beneficial to all living beings; My first school of Buddhism was the Kagyu; Kagyus from neither side really saw the Dalai Lama as their root guru; rather I kept meeting Kagyus who were only 15 years older than me, who had to decide between Tai Situ and Shamar Rinpoche when the lingeage split. The Dalai Lama, while he may have conferred many initiations, might not been seen as the root guru in either case by either side of the Kagyus; at any rate, the people in Karmapa's (Thaye Dorje's) school generally take their transmissions from Karmapa, Shamar Rinpoche, or another Kagyu. I doubt that there is anything like the numbers of Gelugpa people that would take transmissions from the Dalai Lama who subsequently found out that they either had to choose between the Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. The split is really complicated and terrible in both schools, but the Gelugkpa of course, have a stronger karma and likelihood of having taken initiations with the Dalai Lama before their main practice, in many cases, was banned. I understand that you are asking why it is not considered a samaya breach to go with Karmapa (Thaye Dorje); I suppose that you have to understand i would just consider it unwise to take an initiation from the Dalai Lama when he has interfered and chosen a political candidate rather than allowing the Kagyu school to handle its internal recognitions, as it had done throughout history. So for me, and perhaps others are similar, it would simply seem wise to find a lama that one trusts for an initiation, rather than someone who is famous. I am sure the Dalai Lama is a good lama for some people, and I wish all of those disciples a quick path to full Buddhahood, but I have a different karma and would choose others from whom I would take samaya. I liked this article, but I have to clear something up for people who have traditionally only been Gelugpa, because maybe they don’t understand the mentality of those who study in the Kagyupa school. Both schools (Gelugpa and Kagyu) are immensely beneficial to all living beings; My first school of Buddhism was the Kagyu; Kagyus from neither side really saw the Dalai Lama as their root guru; rather I kept meeting Kagyus who were only 15 years older than me, who had to decide between Tai Situ and Shamar Rinpoche when the lingeage split. The Dalai Lama, while he may have conferred many initiations, might not been seen as the root guru in either case by either side of the Kagyus; at any rate, the people in Karmapa’s (Thaye Dorje’s) school generally take their transmissions from Karmapa, Shamar Rinpoche, or another Kagyu. I doubt that there is anything like the numbers of Gelugpa people that would take transmissions from the Dalai Lama who subsequently found out that they either had to choose between the Dalai Lama or Dorje Shugden. The split is really complicated and terrible in both schools, but the Gelugkpa of course, have a stronger karma and likelihood of having taken initiations with the Dalai Lama before their main practice, in many cases, was banned. I understand that you are asking why it is not considered a samaya breach to go with Karmapa (Thaye Dorje); I suppose that you have to understand i would just consider it unwise to take an initiation from the Dalai Lama when he has interfered and chosen a political candidate rather than allowing the Kagyu school to handle its internal recognitions, as it had done throughout history. So for me, and perhaps others are similar, it would simply seem wise to find a lama that one trusts for an initiation, rather than someone who is famous. I am sure the Dalai Lama is a good lama for some people, and I wish all of those disciples a quick path to full Buddhahood, but I have a different karma and would choose others from whom I would take samaya.

]]> By: Deepak K. Lama https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-44405 Deepak K. Lama Thu, 31 Jan 2013 07:02:10 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-44405 Dear Sir/Madam, As we would like inform you we have very good dilbu and dorje if your interested to that please let you know we will provide you details. We are waiting for your kind response. Best regards, Deepak K. Lama Dear Sir/Madam,

As we would like inform you we have very good dilbu and dorje if your interested to that please let you know we will provide you details.

We are waiting for your kind response.

Best regards,

Deepak K. Lama

]]> By: mingmar https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-43928 mingmar Mon, 28 Jan 2013 16:12:12 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-43928 it's true it’s true

]]> By: sumantamang235@yahoo.com https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-43918 sumantamang235@yahoo.com Sat, 26 Jan 2013 17:50:05 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-43918 heartly like heartly like

]]> By: sonam https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-43881 sonam Mon, 21 Jan 2013 15:40:37 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-43881 the real karmapa is only one that os urgyen thinlay dorjee not that samarpa one the real karmapa is only one that os urgyen thinlay dorjee not that samarpa one

]]> By: Agnes Kohl https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-43880 Agnes Kohl Mon, 21 Jan 2013 09:56:36 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-43880 Wow, I am totally impressed with this article. It is brave, honest, respectful and informative. I never saw this issue in such intricate details. Thank you to this website. Mike 87, Your questions make me think too. And it is sad that after much deliberation I cannot help but sadly say that the issues are a result of politics mixed with religion. And that to be favored by China is very much why I think HHDL has chosen Urgyen Trinley too. On top of that, I do not think that the CTA will ever achieve their goal to Free Tibet. In fact, I think that China will do better for Tibet than the CTA would. China has much funds and efforts to preserve Tibet's culture. The CTA on the other hand only wants Tibet because they lost face. I do not think CTA has plans for future Tibet. The disharmony and suffering caused by the Ban and also the unfairness will never be erased. There is karma. On that note i would never want Tibet returned to CTA. Wow, I am totally impressed with this article. It is brave, honest, respectful and informative. I never saw this issue in such intricate details. Thank you to this website.

Mike 87,
Your questions make me think too. And it is sad that after much deliberation I cannot help but sadly say that the issues are a result of politics mixed with religion. And that to be favored by China is very much why I think HHDL has chosen Urgyen Trinley too. On top of that, I do not think that the CTA will ever achieve their goal to Free Tibet. In fact, I think that China will do better for Tibet than the CTA would. China has much funds and efforts to preserve Tibet’s culture. The CTA on the other hand only wants Tibet because they lost face. I do not think CTA has plans for future Tibet.

The disharmony and suffering caused by the Ban and also the unfairness will never be erased. There is karma. On that note i would never want Tibet returned to CTA.

]]> By: Mike 87 https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-43818 Mike 87 Fri, 11 Jan 2013 16:39:58 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-43818 you are very courageous for writing about this so clearly and sharply. I don't think anyone's pointed out the hypocrisy of the CTA quite as bluntly as you have here. Takes a lot of guts. I appreciate that you remain very respectful towards His Holiness though. It shows you are real practitioners. I'm glad you are writing as a way of lobbying change and not to denigrate anyone and none of the lamas. You reflect your practice well and I applaud you for that. Now the issue at hand: why indeed are there different standards in the way different religious groups are being treated? It is hard to really see where human rights are being fully exercised within this community. How can they talk about China's violation of human rights but not look at their own? Perhaps it's even sadder that the Tibetans are this way to their own people because they're supposed to have been brought up with a diet of spirituality and kindness, for hundreds and hundreds of years. Where has it all gone? Have they become so bitter in their struggle outside Tibet that they've lost all the values that they're fighting so hard to protect and preserve? It would be a shame that everything is lost just because they are trying to put down one religious practice. In the end, they will lose everything, their country AND their religion. Then they really become nomads again. you are very courageous for writing about this so clearly and sharply. I don’t think anyone’s pointed out the hypocrisy of the CTA quite as bluntly as you have here. Takes a lot of guts. I appreciate that you remain very respectful towards His Holiness though. It shows you are real practitioners. I’m glad you are writing as a way of lobbying change and not to denigrate anyone and none of the lamas. You reflect your practice well and I applaud you for that.

Now the issue at hand: why indeed are there different standards in the way different religious groups are being treated? It is hard to really see where human rights are being fully exercised within this community. How can they talk about China’s violation of human rights but not look at their own? Perhaps it’s even sadder that the Tibetans are this way to their own people because they’re supposed to have been brought up with a diet of spirituality and kindness, for hundreds and hundreds of years. Where has it all gone? Have they become so bitter in their struggle outside Tibet that they’ve lost all the values that they’re fighting so hard to protect and preserve? It would be a shame that everything is lost just because they are trying to put down one religious practice. In the end, they will lose everything, their country AND their religion. Then they really become nomads again.

]]> By: Q https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-controversy/the-karmapas-and-the-forbidden-buddha/comment-page-1/#comment-43815 Q Fri, 11 Jan 2013 15:53:52 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=27174#comment-43815 Oh my! I never thought about that! What that was expressed here is totally logical! Yes, why is it that followers of Thaye Dorje is not ostracized even though he was not 'endorsed' by the Dalai Lama? And why are his followers still allowed to attend all of HHDL's teachings etc even though He have showed clearly which Karmapa HHDL supports to the world? Why does the CTA not address this or hang posters of people supporting Thaye Dorje around? Oh dear... this is going to be a really hot topic to discuss on. With respect, I do not wish any harm for Thaye Dorje's followers, but in the light of His situation and when I think back of my situation as a Dorje Shugden practitioner, it irks me on the double standards CTA plays with their fellow Tibetan Buddhist crowd. Dorje Shugden practitioners is not a test ground for their power play, and if we were, we forgive you, you've seen the effects of your so called 'power'... now get over it and release the ban already. There is everything to gain and nothing to lose with releasing the ban on Dorje Shugden. Oh my! I never thought about that! What that was expressed here is totally logical!

Yes, why is it that followers of Thaye Dorje is not ostracized even though he was not ‘endorsed’ by the Dalai Lama? And why are his followers still allowed to attend all of HHDL’s teachings etc even though He have showed clearly which Karmapa HHDL supports to the world? Why does the CTA not address this or hang posters of people supporting Thaye Dorje around? Oh dear… this is going to be a really hot topic to discuss on.

With respect, I do not wish any harm for Thaye Dorje’s followers, but in the light of His situation and when I think back of my situation as a Dorje Shugden practitioner, it irks me on the double standards CTA plays with their fellow Tibetan Buddhist crowd. Dorje Shugden practitioners is not a test ground for their power play, and if we were, we forgive you, you’ve seen the effects of your so called ‘power’… now get over it and release the ban already. There is everything to gain and nothing to lose with releasing the ban on Dorje Shugden.

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