Comments on: Abolish the Dorje Shugden ban to further the Tibetan Cause https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/ The Protector whose time has come Mon, 02 Mar 2026 18:35:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: BlueUpali https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/comment-page-1/#comment-49981 BlueUpali Sun, 09 Jun 2013 02:02:09 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=28763#comment-49981 Tenzin, Of course it is possible to have two emanations of any Buddha; however, is it wise let China and the Dalai Lama pick one of them, or just leave that to the Kagyus? Without China's support would Tai Situ have opposed Shamar Rinpoche's candidate? Concerning Agnes Kohl's post, yes, a successor to the Dalai Lama that would be really helpful to Tibetans and all living beings would be a fully democratically elected government; for instance, a freely elected Parliament and Prime Minister, along with a rules for government which allow for religious freedom and human rights; it really won't help Tibet to keep finding these leaders, who, elected or not, have most of the control and no official allowance for basic human rights like freedom of religion and freedom of speech. Concerning China, China may allow Dorje Shugden prayers, along with other Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim or Christian prayers, but the government of China is still severely limiting religious freedom; it is technically okay to be a Buddhist, as long as one isn't holding Party office, but that is of course a detriment to those who would be good at running the state and still might have a religious affiliation. Furthermore, being Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, etc., isn't only about freedom to pray or meditate when the state gives it's okay; of course if a Buddhist needs to go on retreat for several years, this can be problematic in a communist society; if a Buddhist needs to travel to a teaching, it can be problematic; if a Christian wants to proselytize, that can be problematic to the Chinese. In other words, freedoms which are basic to our religious life are not being upheld in Tibet; while it is helpful that China is allowing some religion, it would be much better, of course, if they would adopt a human rights policy that allowed for freedom of religion more like that in the West. So, China may allow Dorje Shugden prayers, but Dorje Shugden practitioners and all other Buddhists would face the same difficulties actually carrying out retreat or travel to teachings, basically because the government of China is far too controlling. Tenzin,
Of course it is possible to have two emanations of any Buddha; however, is it wise let China and the Dalai Lama pick one of them, or just leave that to the Kagyus? Without China’s support would Tai Situ have opposed Shamar Rinpoche’s candidate?
Concerning Agnes Kohl’s post, yes, a successor to the Dalai Lama that would be really helpful to Tibetans and all living beings would be a fully democratically elected government; for instance, a freely elected Parliament and Prime Minister, along with a rules for government which allow for religious freedom and human rights; it really won’t help Tibet to keep finding these leaders, who, elected or not, have most of the control and no official allowance for basic human rights like freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
Concerning China, China may allow Dorje Shugden prayers, along with other Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim or Christian prayers, but the government of China is still severely limiting religious freedom; it is technically okay to be a Buddhist, as long as one isn’t holding Party office, but that is of course a detriment to those who would be good at running the state and still might have a religious affiliation. Furthermore, being Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, etc., isn’t only about freedom to pray or meditate when the state gives it’s okay; of course if a Buddhist needs to go on retreat for several years, this can be problematic in a communist society; if a Buddhist needs to travel to a teaching, it can be problematic; if a Christian wants to proselytize, that can be problematic to the Chinese. In other words, freedoms which are basic to our religious life are not being upheld in Tibet; while it is helpful that China is allowing some religion, it would be much better, of course, if they would adopt a human rights policy that allowed for freedom of religion more like that in the West. So, China may allow Dorje Shugden prayers, but Dorje Shugden practitioners and all other Buddhists would face the same difficulties actually carrying out retreat or travel to teachings, basically because the government of China is far too controlling.

]]> By: Agnes Kohl https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/comment-page-1/#comment-49977 Agnes Kohl Sat, 08 Jun 2013 17:27:52 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=28763#comment-49977 It looks like that should Tibet want self-autonomy or independence it needs to prove to be stable and consistent and not have double standards and confusing secular and religious components. I cannot help but think that for this to happen, does it mean that the Dalai Lama needs to cease existence? There is so much bad blood and discredit with the actions of the Dalai Lama that I cannot help but think that for all affairs - from political state to this Ban - to move forward the Dalai Lama needs to be replaced. Is there a successor to the Dalai Lama whom can deliver the same religious weight and sincerely not have political inclinations? Is this even possible? This Lobsang Sangye guy is not doing much to apply his Harvard education. Is Orgyen Trinley a possible solution? The Chinese back him... The Chinese also support Dorje Shugden temples in China... Where is all this going? So much man made suffering... Just out of curiosity, anyone ever think that Tibet is better off being a part of China? This Dorje Shugden practise could be the new Buddhism for China and it needs no Dalai Lama. I think that China should tell Dalai Lama and the CTA, lift the Ban and we can talk more! May DS bless China! It looks like that should Tibet want self-autonomy or independence it needs to prove to be stable and consistent and not have double standards and confusing secular and religious components. I cannot help but think that for this to happen, does it mean that the Dalai Lama needs to cease existence? There is so much bad blood and discredit with the actions of the Dalai Lama that I cannot help but think that for all affairs – from political state to this Ban – to move forward the Dalai Lama needs to be replaced. Is there a successor to the Dalai Lama whom can deliver the same religious weight and sincerely not have political inclinations? Is this even possible? This Lobsang Sangye guy is not doing much to apply his Harvard education. Is Orgyen Trinley a possible solution? The Chinese back him… The Chinese also support Dorje Shugden temples in China…

Where is all this going? So much man made suffering… Just out of curiosity, anyone ever think that Tibet is better off being a part of China? This Dorje Shugden practise could be the new Buddhism for China and it needs no Dalai Lama.

I think that China should tell Dalai Lama and the CTA, lift the Ban and we can talk more! May DS bless China!

]]> By: tenzin choje https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/comment-page-1/#comment-49970 tenzin choje Sat, 08 Jun 2013 10:45:14 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=28763#comment-49970 There is one question I must ask: why is it not possible to have 2 Karmapas, existing side by side? Why is it that it must only be one? Is it not possible for him to emanate into 2 different individuals? There is one question I must ask: why is it not possible to have 2 Karmapas, existing side by side? Why is it that it must only be one? Is it not possible for him to emanate into 2 different individuals?

]]> By: BlueUpali https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/comment-page-1/#comment-49920 BlueUpali Thu, 06 Jun 2013 00:36:29 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=28763#comment-49920 Hello, Tenzin Choje, Yes, Tai Situ Rinpoche was involved in chosing the Orgyen Trinley; however, he directly contradicted Shamar RInpoche's wishes by doing so, and has historically been 3rd to the Karmapa, while Shamar Rinpoche has been 2nd. I'm afraid we are dealing a little too much with China here for me, though I certainly concede the point that Tai Situ may be an emanating Buddha whose activity is to show us what not to do, and also to decoy the Chinese into chasing around after the wrong Karmapa, and to make us do lojong. For a reference that Orgyen Trinley might be too easily a puppet of the Chinese government please see the link: http://www.karmapa-issue.org/history/overview.htm Hello, Tenzin Choje,
Yes, Tai Situ Rinpoche was involved in chosing the Orgyen Trinley; however, he directly contradicted Shamar RInpoche’s wishes by doing so, and has historically been 3rd to the Karmapa, while Shamar Rinpoche has been 2nd. I’m afraid we are dealing a little too much with China here for me, though I certainly concede the point that Tai Situ may be an emanating Buddha whose activity is to show us what not to do, and also to decoy the Chinese into chasing around after the wrong Karmapa, and to make us do lojong.
For a reference that Orgyen Trinley might be too easily a puppet of the Chinese government please see the link:
http://www.karmapa-issue.org/history/overview.htm

]]> By: tenzin choje https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/comment-page-1/#comment-49915 tenzin choje Wed, 05 Jun 2013 06:27:42 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=28763#comment-49915 There are some problems with your statement here. Orgyen trinley was approved by Tai Situpa and was championed by Tai Situpa. Tai Situpa is one of the 4 regents of the Karma Kagyu school. It is pretty obvious that Tai Situpa is using Orgyen trinley as a political puppet in some ways if you want to see it from a conventional point of view, but also remember that Sharmar Rinpoche and Tai Situpa both grew up as children together. There are some problems with your statement here. Orgyen trinley was approved by Tai Situpa and was championed by Tai Situpa. Tai Situpa is one of the 4 regents of the Karma Kagyu school. It is pretty obvious that Tai Situpa is using Orgyen trinley as a political puppet in some ways if you want to see it from a conventional point of view, but also remember that Sharmar Rinpoche and Tai Situpa both grew up as children together.

]]> By: BlueUpali https://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/features/abolish-the-dorje-shugden-ban-to-further-the-tibetan-cause/comment-page-1/#comment-49908 BlueUpali Tue, 04 Jun 2013 03:32:59 +0000 http://www.dorjeshugden.com/?p=28763#comment-49908 Yes, lifting the ban, separating religion and state, and Tibet's either being an independent democracy or remaining in exile would be much preferable to returning to Tibet under China's rule. The Chinese people are probably very nice people, but their form of government is very oppressive; they insist on okaying Christian Bishops, for example, rather than allowing the Christians to do this. Please note that China 'okayed' a certain candidate for Karmapa, who was not chosen by the agreement of the four regents, and definitely not by the head regent, Shamar Rinpoche. Who is better at finding reincarnate lamas? The head of the Kagyus or the communist government of China? What might China's agenda be? (These are rheorical questions). Communism is really an oppressive form of government, where our freedoms and endowments are negated by the state and politics. I am praying for the Tibetan and Chinese people that they will both be allowed freedom of religion and democracy. Dorje Shugden protects pure Buddhadharma to be free from politics, not just those of state but also agendas of anyone that aren't pure dharma. So, let's pray to Dorje Shugden, help by separating religion and state, and allow for democracy with personal freedoms protected. Yes, lifting the ban, separating religion and state, and Tibet’s either being an independent democracy or remaining in exile would be much preferable to returning to Tibet under China’s rule. The Chinese people are probably very nice people, but their form of government is very oppressive; they insist on okaying Christian Bishops, for example, rather than allowing the Christians to do this. Please note that China ‘okayed’ a certain candidate for Karmapa, who was not chosen by the agreement of the four regents, and definitely not by the head regent, Shamar Rinpoche. Who is better at finding reincarnate lamas? The head of the Kagyus or the communist government of China? What might China’s agenda be? (These are rheorical questions).
Communism is really an oppressive form of government, where our freedoms and endowments are negated by the state and politics. I am praying for the Tibetan and Chinese people that they will both be allowed freedom of religion and democracy. Dorje Shugden protects pure Buddhadharma to be free from politics, not just those of state but also agendas of anyone that aren’t pure dharma. So, let’s pray to Dorje Shugden, help by separating religion and state, and allow for democracy with personal freedoms protected.

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