Author Topic: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?  (Read 7480 times)

Zach

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Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« on: September 23, 2010, 01:32:46 PM »
Many thousands of people go the HHDL for the Kalachakra and enter into samaya with him ? But have they checked the lineage ? Who HHDL receive it from ?

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2010, 02:38:50 PM »


His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama received the complete Kalacakra empowerment with commentary from His Holiness Kyabje Ling Rinpoche of Drepung Loseing Monastery.

tk

Zach

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2010, 02:52:30 PM »
Cool Okay  :)
Ling Rinpoche wasnt a practitoner as far as we know ? So there isnt any bad connection  ?

Big Uncle

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2010, 03:13:39 PM »
Cool Okay  :)
Ling Rinpoche wasnt a practitoner as far as we know ? So there isnt any bad connection  ?

Hey Zach,

Kyabje Ling Rinpoche is more than just a practitioner, he is a high Lama. He is revered as the emanation of Yamantaka. So what's with the bad connection? Are you talking about whether he practices Dorje Shugden? I just don't get what you are getting at.

Zach

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2010, 04:38:49 PM »
Cool Okay  :)
Ling Rinpoche wasnt a practitoner as far as we know ? So there isnt any bad connection  ?

Hey Zach,

Kyabje Ling Rinpoche is more than just a practitioner, he is a high Lama. He is revered as the emanation of Yamantaka. So what's with the bad connection? Are you talking about whether he practices Dorje Shugden? I just don't get what you are getting at.


Yes I have great respect for this master. What I was unsure of was wheather or not the master HHDL received this practise from practised Dorje Shugden, If Kyabje Ling Rinpoche had the empowerment HHDL would be giving out to many thousands of people a connection with this master through the lineage of the empowerment and how would this fit into the conventional logic of DS practitoners being spirit worshippers, How on earth would practitoners view these lineage masters as pure to receive their blessings ? If they where practising Dorje shugden surely this would make the lineage ineffective as from the side that views refuge as a preliminary to receiving all higher empowerments.
But seeing as it was Kyabje Ling rinpoche who passed on the Kalachakra I was just wondering about the infered difficulties of viewing someone as pure even though from HHDL they maybe receiving HYT practise from masters who took Dorje Shugden as their protector.

LosangKhyentse

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2010, 05:52:16 PM »

Ling Rinpoche's personal protector was Nechung and Four Faced Mahakala as he hails from Drepung Loseling Monastery.

He never made negative remarks on Dorje Shugden. He would often recommend in his divinations to people that they should do Dorje Shugden pujas/rituals to clear a certain obstacle. Dorje Shugden to him was just like any other deity for example Tara or Kalarupa, if you needed help and you had the affinity, you can 'call' upon them.

Even in Trijang Rinpoche's biography, nothing was mentioned Ling Rinpoche was 'against' Shugden. Remember, Ling Rinpoche's root master was the the incomparable Pabongka Dorje Chang.

Trijang Rinpoche and Ling Rinpoche had a an unexcelled excellent relationship as junior and senior tutors to the current Dalai Lama. Previous Ling Rinpoche would often go to Zong Labrang to visit the previous Zong Rinpoche. They had very good relations till the end.

The current Ling Rinpoche incarnation is in his mid twenties and resides in Drepung. He has not been heard to speak against Dorje Shugden, but due to politics, he stays away from anyone practicing Dorje Shugden. As the current Ling Rinpoche is close to the Dalai Lama, he would not want to displease the Dalai Lama or the monk authorities in Drepung Monastery.

Unfortunately it has been heard the current Ling Rinpoche is not popular in Drepung Loseling as he has not attended some teachings and monks took offence. Also he is not focussing on his studies it is rumoured. But these are just rumours I have heard from people in that Monastery.

TK


« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 05:56:44 PM by tk »

beggar

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2010, 06:59:19 PM »

Even in Trijang Rinpoche's biography, nothing was mentioned Ling Rinpoche was 'against' Shugden. Remember, Ling Rinpoche's root master was the the incomparable Pabongka Dorje Chang.


Thanks TK for pointing out this very important fact. We cannot get away from the fact that almost all the teachers of our lineage, and therefore all the teachings that we are receiving, will be traced back to Pabongka Rinpoche who was a great practitioner (and teacher) of Dorje Shugden, Vajrayogini and Lamrim, of course. So if we start being choosy about who we will accept teachings from and who we want to avoid, it's all quite silly because it links back to the same place. It's like saying that you acknowledge your father in your family tree but don't recognise this or that uncle as your relative - the grandfather is the same.

So how can it be that one Guru is "valid" and "good" and another is bad and must be avoided, when they both studied and received their practices from the same place. Either they are all incorrect in their teachings or all correct. I prefer to choose the 2nd option. In this case, I prefer to view that Pabongka Rinpoche was faultless and correct in all the teachings he has passed down to us now. I believe this is a much more positive and healthy way of regarding and respecting teachers across the board, all the way.

humbly, beggar

Ensapa

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Re: Who gave HHDL the Kalachakra ?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2012, 06:52:42 AM »
I have another question regarding the Kalachakra lineage itself. Correct me if I am wrong, but Kalachakra was not one of the main yidams that Lama Tsongkhapa relied on, and the current lineage of Kalachakra that we have now comes from Taranatha who also started the Jonang School. If Tarantha is declared as a heretic and his subsequent incarnations banned in Tibet, would that not also mean that all of his teachings are invalid? Jonang was banned for one reason and one reason alone: because they supported the wrong faction, the faction that went against the CTA at that time. It is good that the current Dalai Lama finally admitted to this fact, as it will be the start of a repair of samaya.The sad excuse that CTA gave for the banning of the Jonangs is that they spread the incorrect view of emptiness, known as shentong and therefore, Jonang is a heretical school and must be banned. By declaring a school heretical, they damage the samaya of thousands of people who subscribe to this school. Fortunately, Jonang survived till today with secret monasteries around, and Taranatha just came back as Jetsun Khalka, the Dhamaraja of Mongolia.

My question here is this: If the current CTA still bans Taranatha from reincarnating, but he is the origin of today's Kalachakra cycle of teachings, so if the CTA still sees him as a heretic and bans him and his teachings and his school (note that until today, Jonang is not officially accepted as a tradition in itself, although the Dalai Lama has pushed very hard for it to be accepted), would it not be breaking samaya to criticize a lineage Guru? Taranatha passed the lineage to the Gelugpas, so he is a lineage Guru. His reincarnation has not been unbanned yet, so why practice the teaching but hate the teacher?

Its just something i have been wondering anyway, after thinking about it...how can a practice be okay and authentic when we criticize the teacher who passed down the practice to us?