Author Topic: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)  (Read 10395 times)

Lineageholder

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2010, 10:38:50 AM »
The reason why the book should not be published is because it contains false information that defames the reputation of the New Kadampa Tradition, such as the NKT is in league with the PRC.  Where does freedom of speech end and being able to publish defamatory lies begin?  This is the reason why the libel laws exist.

The book also appeared to be repeating the false claims published by Dreyfus and others about Dorje Shugden and the history of the practice, thus further 'demonising' this Deity and assisting the Dalai Lama in accomplishing his agenda of destroying the practice.

It's also clear from the title headings that it was not neutral -for example,

The Arrogation of Manjushri Institute: While the Cat’s Away

In case you're not sure (and I wasn't), 'arrogation' means 'To take or claim for oneself without right'.  The implication is that Geshe Kelsang stole Manjushri Institute from Lama Yeshe which is completely false.  There was a vote of the Residents who all wanted Geshe Kelsang to stay and be their Resident Teacher.  It also became clear that the FPMT managers were going to sell Manjushri Institute to fund other activities, something the community did not want, so to protect the centre and community they eventually split from the FPMT.  I doubt very much from the title of this chapter that such information (including the fact that the FMPT were raising money through drug smuggling) would be mentioned.   This is what really happened:

http://www.newkadampatruth.org/smear-geshe-kelsang-gyatso-stole-manjushri-institute-from-the-fpmt

This being the case, why should NKT allow lies about the 'arrogation' of Manjushri Institute be spread about?  Allowing lies to be spread in the name of 'free speech' is not helpful.  Anyone can say, for example, 'Dorje Shugden is a demon' or 'NKT is in league with the Chinese Government against the Dalai Lama'. They are free to say this, but since it's a wrong view, it's not helpful to spread it around.  The various accusations made against Dorje Shugden, NKT and the WSS by people who are misinformed or even malicious, as Middleway said, affects people's faith and therefore interferes with people's spiritual lives.  We can therefore say that books containing these false claims are maras and every effort should be made to prevent such obstacles from arising. 
« Last Edit: May 24, 2010, 12:39:06 PM by Lineageholder »

crazycloud

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2010, 05:32:18 PM »
Of course, none of those things are maras....

a friend

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2010, 02:12:46 AM »

Middleway, Lineageholder, I agree with you. If a book filled with calumnies about your Lama, your Deity and your lineage can be avoided, it should be. If there are legitimate ways to stop such obstacles for the mind of others to arise then it´s very good to do it. I would say that not to stop such harmful book to appear would be a mistake. Lies, lies, lies ... basta! The nazis used as astute propaganda weapon the notion that you only need to repeat a lie enough number of times for it to become a truth. Also, in the world, there is this unfair view that if something bad is said of somebody ... then there must be some good reason behind it. So again, well done NKT lawyers!


« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 02:39:12 AM by a friend »

Midakpa

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2010, 08:11:35 AM »
I went to the website indicated by lineageholder. I understand a bit more now NKT's history. But at the same time I feel very sad because you have become very angry people. I respect your guru a lot and read his books. I'm sure many people have benefited from reading his books. I hope you will cultivate a peaceful state of mind and overcome your problems.

Just before I logged in, I was reading the last paragraph of the Preface to "Joyful Path of Good Fortune" and was thoroughly inspired by it. It is about practicing the Lamrim.

The Venerable Geshe Kelsang Gyatso says: "By controlling our mind we can solve all our daily problems, and by gradually improving our daily practice of Lamrim we can advance from our present stage to the stage of a Bodhisattva. By progressing further we can become a fully enlightened being. This is the essential meaning of our human life."

Mohani

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2010, 08:18:05 AM »
Dear Midakpa,
Why do you say we have become very angry people?

Robert Thomas

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2010, 01:13:50 PM »
I note that Gary Beesley has also been active in criticising the FWBO. Personally I appreciate constructive and honest criticism I think it helps organisations remain accountable to the wider society in which they exist. From this pov I liked Zhalmed P's article about crap :-)) but I do think the criticsm must have a basis in truth and think it would be sad to see another book trot out the same tired lies about Je Phabongkha, Dorje Shugden and Geshe Kelsang. Lies which I have seen first hand destroy peoples inner peace / path to wisdom.

Anyway, here's a quote by Bodhipaksa taken from the comments, to a review of a book by Sangharakshita, interesting to consider some parallels between these two popular and resolutely westernised presenters of Buddha's universal truths :

"I don’t think Sangharakshita has written anything in response to the critical information about him and the FWBO, although there is a video in which he discusses his sexual activities. I don’t think he’d dignify his fiercest critics with a response. There are three principle actors. There’s Mark Dunlop, who was formerly an Order member and who had a sexual relationship with Sangharakshita. Some time after the relationship ended he became increasingly bitter, and then he started his campaign. The second (the author of the FWBO Files) is Gary Beesley, who is a religious education teacher and Tibetan Buddhist. He’s never had any direct experience of the FWBO. His campaign isn’t just against the FWBO, but also against SGI and the NKT, and is a kind of personal crusade. The third is Jurgen Schnake, who runs fwbo-files.com. He also has no experience of the FWBO. Schnake has nakedly asked for money in return for ceasing his activities. I don’t think that was his initial motivation, which seems mainly to be mischievous. He’s quite happy to make stuff up, like claims that the FWBO is a branch of scientology. Unfortunately none of these people has any great regard for honesty or accuracy, and they’ll say anything if they think it helps damage the FWBO (Dunlop has accused the FWBO of murdering children, and I’ve mentioned Schanke’s alleged Scientology takeover). I’d be astonished if Sangharakshita was to address their often outlandish accusations. We’re dealing with “fake moon landing” psychology here."

from
http://www.wildmind.org/blogs/book-reviews/the-essential-sangharakshita
« Last Edit: May 25, 2010, 01:33:20 PM by Robert Thomas »

emptymountains

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2010, 03:08:40 PM »

Also, in the world, there is this unfair view that if something bad is said of somebody ... then there must be some good reason behind it.


Where there's smoke... there's arson:-\

crazycloud

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2010, 07:31:05 PM »
But at the same time I feel very sad because you have become very angry people.
>:( >:(
HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT?!?! I WON"T PUT UP WITH THIS KIND OF TREATMENT ON THIS....oh...uh...
uh...I mean....

Why do you say that?

Lineageholder

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2010, 08:52:21 PM »
Where there's smoke... there's arson:-\

:D

Midakpa

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2010, 02:54:49 AM »
I visited the Wildmind website and read some articles and comments. The comment by Bodhipaksa is very interesting because he mentioned Gary Beesley. He thinks that it is "... all Sangharakshita's karma playing out (in conjunction with the karma of his critics)... If there was no Mark Dunlop there would quite probably be no Gary Beesley and no Jurgen Schnake".

By reacting to Gary Beesley's book, one is creating karma. Am I correct? Anger is a sign that one has no real understanding. Insight stops anger (Thich Nhat Hanh in "Anger", 2001). If you are not angry, then please accept my apologies.

crazycloud

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2010, 06:03:38 PM »
Quote
By reacting to Gary Beesley's book, one is creating karma. Am I correct?

yes! If we react with loveliness, we create good karma, for example, stopping this poor man from slandering and increasing his negativity.

Quote
Anger is a sign that one has no real understanding.
I agree

Quote
Insight stops anger (Thich Nhat Hanh in "Anger", 2001).

I agree

Quote
If you are not angry, then please accept my apologies.

I personally become angry from time to time, but as I do not feel I am an "angry person," I do not feel that any apology is necessary.

I was just wondering if you might offer an explanation as to WHY it is you think we have become "angry people?"

Thanks for your time.

Geronimo

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2010, 06:28:43 PM »
Dear Sangha,
 
I'm starting to work on dispelling the many misconceptions found on NKTWorld.org. I work at a print shop and printed the whole website out, and it came close to 700 pages! (albeit a lot of the same stuff over and over and over and over again...)
 
I went through and highlighted the stuff I want to address and came up with a "top 10" list of common misconceptions repeated more than once, which will appear as 10 separate blog posts. The first one is up now:
 
http://puremindpureworld.wordpress.com/2010/05/28/the-nkts-abuse-of-religious-freedom/

MJW

Robert Thomas

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2010, 06:52:41 PM »
Dear Midakpa

To correctly identify anger several things must be present, principally the wish to harm and also that object one wishes to harm does not really exist in the way it appears. Normally the object is exaggeratted and appears to exist as inherently or truly unpleasent, meaning without any dependence on the mind (angry mind) that beholds it. There is no wish to harm any sentient being within the web site you visited, nor does it identify it's object falsely. Perhaps you would like to investigate the sight bearing these points in mind and the say if you think it is the product of an angry mind. I'd be very interested to read your findings :-)

With very best wishes

Robert

Btw here is a proper definition and a link to a very nice website dedicated to the subject of solving anger:

Anger is a deluded mind that focuses on an animate or inanimate object, feels it to be unattractive, exaggerates its bad qualities, and wishes to harm it

from:
http://www.anger-management-techniques.org/index.htm/
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 07:18:20 PM by Robert Thomas »

Midakpa

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #43 on: May 30, 2010, 02:35:08 AM »
Dear Robert,

Thank you for your explanation on anger. I still have a lot to learn.

But I think there has been a misunderstanding regarding my comments. I was not referring to the website I visited when I made the comment on "angry people". I was referring to the people who reacted strongly to the publication of Gary Beesley's book, especially to those who engaged lawyers and threatened legal action. Please read Gary Beesley's letter in the NKTWorld tabloid blog posted by Emptymountains on May 21 2010 in this thread.


Dear Crazycloud,

I hope my explanation above has answered your question. By withdrawing his book, Gary Beesley is, consciously or unconsciously, cutting the karma between him and his enemies. Someone has to take the first step.

crazycloud

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Re: The Dalai Lama Strikes Back! (sort of)
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2010, 02:43:03 AM »
I was referring to the people who reacted strongly to the publication of Gary Beesley's book, especially to those who engaged lawyers and threatened legal action. Please read Gary Beesley's letter in the NKTWorld tabloid blog posted by Emptymountains on May 21 2010 in this thread.

Dear Crazycloud,

I hope my explanation above has answered your question. By withdrawing his book, Gary Beesley is, consciously or unconsciously, cutting the karma between him and his enemies. Someone has to take the first step.

Hey Midakpa

Actually it doesn't, as my question was largely rhetorical. I am hoping to indirectly show that "strong reaction" does not equal anger. If having a strong reaction were the same as anger, we would be doomed to always be mild, which would preclude us from engaging in the controlling and wrathful actions that are sometimes required.

So what if lawyers were engaged? Previous posters have elucidated well how allowing people to lie and slander is not good for anyone, so why not force them to stop doing illegal things like libel by using the laws of our country?

So what I was trying to point out was that you then tarred an entire group of people with the same mistaken brush.

Quote
I understand a bit more now NKT's history. But at the same time I feel very sad because you have become very angry people. I respect your guru a lot and read his books

Another error in your post is the statement that Mr Beesely is cutting the Karma between himself and his enemies. "Someone has to take the first step," you say. But Mr Beesely is avoiding being sued for libel knowing he has no case. This is no practice of offering the victory, this is a predator being scared off by the return of a parent. He is being assisted in avoiding the creation of truly miserable karma for himself. There is no doubt he has created a great deal of painful karma through his actions.

much respect and best wishes,

cc