Author Topic: Did the Dalai Lama lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden - NOOOO!!  (Read 796 times)

Harold Musetescu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Did the Dalai Lama lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden - NOOOO!!
« on: June 02, 2020, 11:36:26 PM »
Here is a link to an article found on the opening age of this web-site.

It is titled "The Dalai Lama Ends The Dorje Shugden Ban
Posted on May 29, 2020.

http://www.dorjeshugden.com/all-articles/the-dalai-lama-ends-the-dorje-shugden-ban/

Here is a quote from this article

Quote
During a teaching in January this year, the Dalai Lama very casually overturned the ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden which he had instigated over twenty-three years ago. It was easy to miss the significance of what he said because of the incidental manner in which the Dalai Lama addressed the subject. However, to those attuned to the subtleties of the Dalai Lama’s manner of speaking, it was clear that the campaign which the Tibetan leadership had unleashed against Shugden Buddhists was at an end....

So, it came as a complete surprise when the Dalai Lama casually remarked in his January 2020 teaching that it was fine to worship Dorje Shugden as a BIRTH deity (kye lha) or a LAND god (yul lha). Although the Dalai Lama persisted in questioning the historic status of Dorje Shugden as the Protector of Lama Tsongkapa’s lineage, his consent for the worship of the deity was a drastic reversal of official Tibetan policy that had stood for over two decades. The Dalai Lama had just ended a ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden that the Tibetan leadership had pursued aggressively since 1996....

The classification of Dorje Shugden as kye lha or yul lha is a relatively insignificant detail. The list of gods and Buddhas in the Tibetan Buddhist pantheon is inexhaustible and covers lhas or gods who are often accepted as emanations of enlightened beings. The Great 5th Dalai Lama wrote rituals popularizing the inclusion of worldly gods, including yul lhas in formal prayers. Lamas of all Tibetan Buddhist sects over the centuries did the same. So, to regard Dorje Shugden as a kye lha or yul lha is to restore the practice as an acceptable part of mainstream Tibetan Buddhism......
Unquote

I'm sorry but I think that all the Dalai Lama was doing was fooling the followers of Dorje Shugden.

No where does the Dalai Lama state that Dorje Shugden is a Dharmapala and can be practiced as a Dharmapala.

The Dalai Lama equates Dorje Shugden to a "Birth(day) deity" or a "Land God".

These are not Dharmapalas just the lowest of spirits.

They are NOT EMANATIONS of an enlightened beings.

The Dalai Lama is not saying that this "Birth" deity or "LAND" God is an emanation of Manjushri.

He did all this for the Chinese Government so he could return to Tibet.

He thought he could trick you and the Chinese Government into thinking he had lifted the BAN so he could return to Tibet.

Show me where either the Dalai Lama or his CTA have publicly and officially stated that the ban on Dorje Shugden was lifted.

NO WERE!!

So they took down the Anti Dorje Shugden piece on their site.

Quote from that article.
"Perhaps the best evidence that the Dalai Lama intended to end the persecution of Shugden believers is the sudden disappearance of the prominent ‘Dolgyal’ banner on the CTA’s website. That banner served as an ongoing official warning for Tibetans to not practice Dorje Shugden and to not associate with Shugden Buddhists. The simultaneous disappearance of the banner indicates that the Dalai Lama’s words were no mistake."

There is no statement from the Dalai Lama or the CTA that they were WRONG in banning Dorje Shugden.

Just that you can treat Dorje Shugden as a lowly "Birth" deity or "Land" God.

From that article
Quote
"Although the Dalai Lama persisted in questioning the historic status of Dorje Shugden as the Protector of Lama Tsongkapa’s lineage,... "
Unquote

The Dalai Lama persisted in questioning the historic status of Dorje Shugden.... means he is still PUBLICLY DENYING  that Dorje Shugden is a Dharmapala, a Protector of the Lama Tsongkapa lineage.

He publicly accepts Dorje Shugden as a lowly spirit and nothing else.

Please don't get tricked by the "Master of Lies" the great 14th Dalai Lama.

I have written numerous articles on this site about all the fake anti Dorje Shugden Tulkus and Oracles the Dalai Lama has created.

None of these fake Tulkus or Oracles have stated that they now accept the practice of Dorje Shugden as a Dharmapala.

No anti Dorje Shugden Oracle has gone into trance and has his Deity(Dharmapala) stated publicly that the practice of Dorje Shugden as a Dharmapala they condemn is now OK.

Sorry but the Dalai Lama never lifted the BAN on the practice of Dorje Shugden being an emanation of Manjushri.

If I'm wrong please prove me wrong.

Pray for the swift return of Tsem Tulku Rinpoche.




Harold Musetescu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Did the Dalai Lama lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden - NOOOO!!
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2020, 01:17:28 PM »
I didn’t notice anywhere in Shashi Kei's article that the 14th Dalai Lama is now inviting all those monks and nuns he expelled from their monasteries to return to them.

Didn’t notice any statements from either the CTA or their Ministry of Religion that the monks and nuns can now return to their previous monasteries.

No statement from the Dalai Lama saying that the true followers of Dorje Shugden can now start to receive teaching from him. That they are no longer banned from attending his teachings.

I assume the Dalai Lama will allow followers of Dorje Shugden to attend if we state that Dorje Shugden is only a "Birth Deity" or a "Land God" and not a Dharmapala.

I assume the Dalai Lama will allow those expelled monks and nuns to return to their monasteries if they public declare that Dorje Shugden is only a "Birth Deity" or a "Land God" and not a Dharmapala.

What the Dalai Lama, the CTA and their Ministry of Religion don’t say about Dorje Shugden is louder then what the Dalai Lama said “in a very casual……incidental manner”.

Remember the only thing the Dalai Lama said was that Dorje Shugden is just a very lowly spirit and nothing else.

Harold Musetescu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Did the Dalai Lama lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden - NOOOO!!
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2020, 01:52:32 PM »
Mr Kei in his article stated;
Quote
Perhaps the best evidence that the Dalai Lama intended to end the persecution of Shugden believers is the sudden disappearance of the prominent ‘Dolgyal’ banner on the CTA’s website. That banner served as an ongoing official warning for Tibetans to not practice Dorje Shugden and to not associate with Shugden Buddhists. The simultaneous disappearance of the banner indicates that the Dalai Lama’s words were no mistake.
Unquote

Here is a link to the present day website of the Dalai Lama.

Read what he still professes about Dorje Shugden and the monks and nuns he expelled.

https://www.dalailama.com/messages/dolgyal-shugden/statements-announcements/response-to-shugden-protestor-allegations

Quote
To sum up:
We respect everyone's right to express their opinions freely. If the Shugden protestors believe they have legitimate concerns to discuss, we welcome the opportunity to address these in a civilized manner. However, since the professed reasons of the Shugden protestors - that there is a ban and that Tibetan Shugden worshippers are discriminated against - are baseless, many wonder what might be the real motive behind this campaign against His Holiness the Dalai Lama? Is it simply to defame the name of one of the world's most respected spiritual leaders and the beloved leader of the Tibetan people? What really is behind this current campaign to undermine the Dalai Lama's efforts to promote peace, human values and inter-religious understanding around the world? Who stands to gain by disparaging the Dalai Lama's name?...
Those members who do not wish to abide by the monasteries' internal regulations have now established their own communities. They were given land, infrastructural facilities, as well as a fair share of monasteries' assets so that they could establish their own monasteries. Today, two such communities of Shugden worshipping monks - Shar Ganden Ling and Pompor Monastery - exist alongside the mainstream monasteries in the south Indian settlements. These two monasteries are totally free to practise worship of Shugden, while being part of the Tibetan exile community in southern India. This is an important fact anyone can witness on the ground...."

Those members who do not wish to abide by the monasteries' internal regulations have now established their own communities. They were given land, infrastructural facilities, as well as a fair share of monasteries' assets so that they could establish their own monasteries. Today, two such communities of Shugden worshipping monks - Shar Ganden Ling and Pompor Monastery - exist alongside the mainstream monasteries in the south Indian settlements. These two monasteries are totally free to practise worship of Shugden, while being part of the Tibetan exile community in southern India. This is an important fact anyone can witness on the ground.
Unquote

You will also find this on his official website by going to his home page, scroll over to "More" and when you click on to it go to the bottom left of the page and you will find "Messages" and you will find Dolgyal(Dorje Shugden.

This is what you will find.

Quote
Messages
Dolgyal (Shugden)
SHARE
STATEMENTS & ANNOUNCEMENTS REGARDING THE DOLGYAL ISSUE
Clarifying His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Stand on Dolgyal/Shugden
His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Advice Concerning Dolgyal (Shugden)
In Response to the Shugden Protestors’ Allegations
New Sources of Information about the Dolgyal / Shugden Issue
Statement of the German Buddhist Monastic Association (DBO) on the Protests against the Dalai Lama by the International Shugden Community (ISC)?
SPEECHES AND REMARKS ABOUT DOLGYAL BY HIS HOLINESS THE DALAI LAMA
Comments about Dolgyal 2015
Comments about Dolgyal 2014
Speech During Spring Teachings - 27 March 2006
Speech to the Second Gelug Conference - 6 December 2000
Speech to the Second Gelug Conference - 6 December 2000 (continued)
Concerning Dolgyal or Shugden With Reference to the Views of Past Masters and Other Related Matters
Concerning Dolgyal or Shugden With Reference to the Views of Past Masters and Other Related Matters (continued)
HISTORICAL REFERENCES
The Fifth Dalai Lama
Trichen Ngawang Chokdhen (1677-1751)
Phurchok Ngawang Jampa (1682-1762)
Yongzin Yeshi Gyaltsen (1713-1793)
Thukan Lobsang Choekyi Nyima (1737-1802)
Phabongkhapa Dechen Nyingpo (1878-1941)
Jigme Dhamchoe Gyatso (1898-1947)
ACCOUNTS RELATED TO DOLGYAL BY CONTEMPOARY SCHOLARS
The 100th Ganden Tripa (Ganden Throneholder)
The Shugden Affair: Origins of a Controversy (Part 1)
The Shugden Affair: Origins of a Controversy (Part I) - Appendix
The Shugden Affair: Origins of a Controversy (Part II)
The Dalai Lama And The Cult Of Dolgyal Shugden
Quote

And final from the above list.

Quote

Clarifying His Holiness the Dalai Lama's Stand on Dolgyal/Shugden
SHARE
12 July 2015

On 7th July, the final day of official celebrations of His Holiness the Dalai Lama's 80th birthday in Orange County, California, representatives of the Office of His Holiness the Dalai Lama (OHHDL) invited the International Shugden Community (ISC) to meet and explain what they are accusing His Holiness of lying about. The office is concerned that many among the Shugden protestors may be poorly informed about the Shugden issue and His Holiness's stand with regard to it. The office's intention is less to try to convince those who already understand the issue but continue to protest, and more to reach out to those who have been misinformed about it. Three senior ISC members came and reiterated their allegation that His Holiness has banned the practice of Dolgyal/Shugden. This is untrue. The OHHDL representatives explained that although His Holiness has for forty years advised against propitiating Shugden, he has always been consistently clear that, in the end, it is up to individuals to choose whether or not to follow his counsel.

Indeed, some monks from two Geluk monasteries in southern India who chose to continue their Shugden practice have set up their own monasteries, Shar Ganden Ling and Serpom Dratsang. These monasteries exist as part of their respective Tibetan settlements in south India and the members enjoy all the rights and facilities to which the residents of the settlements are entitled.

One of the principal reasons why His Holiness advises against this practice is because of the well-documented sectarianism associated with it. In the past, Shugden practice, especially in Eastern Tibet, provoked widespread distrust between monasteries, prevented members of the Geluk school from receiving instructions belonging to the Nyingma tradition, and even led to desecration of religious images and scriptures. His Holiness considers this kind of divisiveness and disharmony to be deeply regrettable. As someone who actively promotes inter-religious harmony and understanding, he opposes discrimination against anyone on grounds of faith.

A clear understanding of the Shugden question requires objective study of its nearly 400 year controversial history, especially the way it unfolded in the early years of the 20th century. His Holiness the Dalai Lama feels a moral responsibility to advise his followers against Shugden practice. In so doing he is following the example of his distinguished predecessors, especially the Great Fifth and the Thirteenth Dalai Lamas.
Unquote

These is what the Dalai Lama has on his official website to about Dorje Shugden.


Harold Musetescu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Did the Dalai Lama lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden - NOOOO!!
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2020, 06:28:36 PM »
The Mr Kei's article he stated that the Dalai Lama made this statement in January 2020.

Since that day I can not find any other mention of the Dalai Lama in the news repeating his “New Policy” on Dorje Shudgen.

Why has the Dalai Lama not publicly restated this “Pro” Dorje Shugden policy statement.

Why has the CTA NEVER publicly stated that they in agreement with the Dalai Lama and his new “Pro” Dorje Shugden policy statement.

Why has the Ministry of Education NEVER publicly stated that they are in agreement with the Dalai Lama and his new “Pro” Dorje Shugden policy statement.

To quote from Mr Kei’s article,

“During a teaching in January this year, the Dalai Lama very CASUALLY overturned the ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden which he had instigated over twenty-three years ago. IT WAS VERY EASY TO MISS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF WHAT HE SAID BECAUSE OF THE INCIDENTAL MANNER IN WHICH THE DALAI LAMA ADDRESSED THE SUBJECT….”

Yes, it was “VERY EASY TO MISS” not only on that day in Jan. 2020 but every day since.

The “SILENCE” of the Dalai Lama, his CTA and the Ministry of Religion speaks volumes on how serious they take this so called “Lifting of the ban on Dorje Shugden”!!

THEY DON’T!!

If I am wrong public show me the proof.


Harold Musetescu

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Did the Dalai Lama lift the Ban on Dorje Shugden - NOOOO!!
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2020, 10:36:23 AM »
Why does Mr Kei fail to provide us with any “Direct Quotes” from the Dalai Lama’s speech??

Here is an example.

Quote
So, it came as a complete surprise when the Dalai Lama casually remarked in his January 2020 teaching that it was fine to worship Dorje Shugden as a birth deity (kye lha) or a land god (yul lha). Although the Dalai Lama persisted in questioning the historic status of Dorje Shugden as the Protector of Lama Tsongkapa’s lineage, his consent for the worship of the deity was a drastic reversal of official Tibetan policy that had stood for over two decades. The Dalai Lama had just ended a ban on the practice of Dorje Shugden that the Tibetan leadership had pursued aggressively since 1996.
Unquote

There are absolutely no “First Person” direct quotes from the Dalai Lama in his article.

Just Mr Kei claiming this is what the Dalai Lama said about the "Lifting of the Ban".

WHY NO DIRECT QUOTES FROM THE DALAI LAMA MR KEI’S???

His totally failure to provide us with any direct quotes or any proof of the actual date and place of this so called “Lifting of the Ban”.

Were you present when the Dalai Lama made this so called statement?

If not then who are you quoting from as you source?

You did not quote from any newspaper or provide video proof.

You provided no follow up statement from either the Dalai Lama or his CTA.

Sorry Mr Kei’s without any proof from you I must now question if your article is in fact “Fake News”.

Please provide us with proof!!